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[SolVanderlyn]

Kojima originally wanted to make him a buddy character, but decided against it because he didn't want such an important character to be vulnerable during gameplay, I:e. Death.

Because D-horse, Quiet and DD can die in the field.

 

[Toa TAK]

Kojima originally wanted to make him a buddy character, but decided against it because he didn't want such an important character to be vulnerable during gameplay, I:e. Death.

But that makes no sense since, like Quiet, he can just Fulton out of there. Unless the difference is that Quiet is available to kill from the get-go.

 

[Ōkami]

Not even D Walker can "die", when its heavily damaged it gets fulton'd too.

 

[Draper]

That stupid fucking horse.

Leveling him up is a drag.

 

[Chakra_Khan]

So I finally finished the game tonight. A world of problems. All the heartfelt moments that should've had appropriate emotional impact were robbed of that because of much of an utter fuck up this story was. Chapter 1 also had its pacing issues not just chapter 2. God.......is this how you guys felt after mgs4 ended? Pleases tell me no....tell me this is worse.

 

[crazyrabbits]

That stupid fucking horse.

Leveling him up is a drag.

PROTIP: Just ride around on him for a while. According to the strategy guide, you gain +1 bond every 36 seconds riding on him.

 

[Toa TAK]

That stupid fucking horse.

Leveling him up is a drag.

I just got the achievement today for leveling up the bond all the way. It took me awhile as well, I just assume it's because you really can't use the Horse in combat or stealth the same way Quiet and DD help you out as you progress in the missions.

PROTIP: Just ride around on him for a while. According to the strategy guide, you gain +1 bond every 36 seconds riding on him.

NOW YOU TELL ME.

 

[ezekial45]

Because D-horse, Quiet and DD can die in the field.

But that makes no sense since, like Quiet, he can just Fulton out of there. Unless the difference is that Quiet is available to kill from the get-go.

I should've pre-face that he shared this info last year at TGS, when they unveiled the buddy characters. During that he stated that the characters can actually die on the field, which isn't the case now. They likely changed their minds about the permadeath.

What I'm saying is that was the reason Kojima opted out of including Ocelot back then. But things changed, of course. And I doubt he'll elaborate further on it anytime soon.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So I finally finished the game tonight. A world of problems. All the heartfelt moments that should've had appropriate emotional impact were robbed of that because of much of an utter fuck up this story was. Chapter 1 also had its pacing issues not just chapter 2. God.......is this how you guys felt after mgs4 ended? Pleases tell me no....tell me this is worse.

You can pretend this happened instead:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=178933097&postcount=5301

 

[Korezo]

Big boss dies in MG, then another Big Boss dies in MS2. Who's the Big Boss in the end of MGS4? Is the phantom pain the one in the body bag and the guy that shiws up in the end The OG boss?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Big boss dies in MG, then another Big Boss dies in MS2. Who's the Big Boss in the end of MGS4?

The second one

 

[Dahbomb]

You can pretend this happened instead:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=178933097&postcount=5301

Where is this picture from?

 

[Golnei]

Yeah, he's still in SPETZNAZ and working with the Soviet military to counter the Mujahedin. So him being seen helping Venom Snake is a no-no.

If that were the sole reason, could they not have given him a mask or something? It's not like bad disguises and theatrics would be out of character for him - and didn't he attend one of the Philosophers' charm schools, like EVA?

I should've pre-face that he shared this info last year at TGS, when they unveiled the buddy characters. During that he stated that the characters can actually die on the field, which isn't the case now. They likely changed their minds about the permadeath.

What I'm saying is that was the reason Kojima opted out of including Ocelot back then. But things changed, of course. And I doubt he'll elaborate further on it anytime soon.

Being a victim of the original plan would make sense. I doubt they would have wanted to have him be the only buddy character who'd cause an instant 'time paradox' mission failure; or the only one who'd merely be injured rather than dying.

Where is this picture from?

That's what Big Boss's GZ model looks like without the beard and eyepatch.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

So I finally finished the game tonight. A world of problems. All the heartfelt moments that should've had appropriate emotional impact were robbed of that because of much of an utter fuck up this story was. Chapter 1 also had its pacing issues not just chapter 2. God.......is this how you guys felt after mgs4 ended? Pleases tell me no....tell me this is worse.

Haha MGS4 is worse.

Game is stl a GOTY contender for me though, always expected the story to be a mess (even MGS3 was in some parts).

Gameplay was great. I'm still not bored of it.

 

[ponpo]

Where is this picture from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apYsyTi2pFw

 

[family_guy]

So I finally finished the game tonight. A world of problems. All the heartfelt moments that should've had appropriate emotional impact were robbed of that because of much of an utter fuck up this story was. Chapter 1 also had its pacing issues not just chapter 2. God.......is this how you guys felt after mgs4 ended? Pleases tell me no....tell me this is worse.

Nah. MGS4 ending was nowhere near as bad as this.

 

[The Silver]

Chapter 2 definitely has some very strong moments (story wise)... it's just paced even worse than chapter 1.

And about the whole you not playing as Big Boss all along... that didn't even phase me in the slightest. In fact like I said, it made a whole lot of other things make more sense to me in the grand scheme of things for the MGS universe (including MG). It's certainly less of a mind fuck than most of the things that happened in MGS2.


Random note but for me the star VA performer of MGSV was without a doubt Kaz. That dude's VA put in over work and showed the greatest range of emotions out of all the VAs in the game. I definitely enjoyed his lines the most.

Kojima brainwashing people into thinking he filled plotholes that were never there.

Venom doesn't make anything make more sense. Big Boss never died in MG1, he tells you himself at the end of the game, in MG2 he's a cyborg because of his injuries. MGSV retconned all this and now BB being a cyborg doesn't make sense.

MG1 is even more muddled up than ever before since we don't know if Venom and BB were working together, if Venom went rogue, if BB betrayed him, which BB was talking to Snake on the radio, etc etc.

Nothing changes from MG2 onwards, Venom is irrelevant after MG1.

 

[Arttemis]

Nah. MGS4 ending was nowhere near as bad as this.

MGS4 was over an hour of nonsense and an insulting wedding. This, at least, has me intrigued, where 4 had me wishing I never wasted my time.

I'd rather listen to Code Talker go on about parasites than listen to that drivel in 4's cemetery scene.

 

[News Bot]

All of this blame being put on Kojima is kinda unfair when he had like THREE other co-writers on MGSV.

He was the lead writer and director of the game. It was his job to dictate the material presented by the co-writers. He failed.

 

[Arttemis]

Kojima brainwashing people into thinking he filled plotholes that were never there.

Venom doesn't make anything make more sense. Big Boss never died in MG1, he tells you himself at the end of the game, in MG2 he's a cyborg because of his injuries. MGSV retconned all this and now BB being a cyborg doesn't make sense.

MG1 is even more muddled up than ever before since we don't know if Venom and BB were working together, if Venom went rogue, if BB betrayed him, which BB was talking to Snake on the radio, etc etc.

Nothing changes from MG2 onwards, Venom is irrelevant after MG1.

I don't think a single word of MG1 and MG2 should be taken literally as canon anymore. The plot synopsis, maybe, but the games themselves have been retconned into footnotes on timelines.

 

[Love Deterrence]

MGS4 was over an hour of nonsense and an insulting wedding. This, at least, has me intrigued, where 4 had me wishing I never wasted my time.

Whether people liked it or not, I think most would acknowledge that what they witnessed at the end of MGS4 was indeed an ending. I'm pretty sure I've heard "Wow. Just completed Mission 46? Kojima, you magnificent bastard. Played me like a damn fiddle. (several WHOOOO memes later) Wait, that's it?" more times than I heard "wollllllbachiaaaaaaaaaa..... eeeeeeeeeeeeenglische streighnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" in MGSV.

 

[Resilient]

Whether people liked it or not, I think most would acknowledge that what they witnessed at the end of MGS4 was indeed an ending. I'm pretty sure I've heard "Wow. Just completed Mission 46? Kojima, you magnificent bastard. Played me like a damn fiddle. (several WHOOOO memes later) Wait, that's it?" more times than I heard "wollllllbachiaaaaaaaaaa..... eeeeeeeeeeeeenglische streighnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" in MGSV.

lmao so true. so damn true

WHOOOOOOOOOOO allowed this game to be finished this way?
WHOOOOOOOOOOO decided to cut chapter 3?
WHOOOOOOOOOOO thinks Development time is bullshit?
SUCH A LUST FOR DLC
SUCH A LUST FOR CONTENT
SUCH A LUST FOR QUIET

enough guys, nothing is gonna bring this game back :'(

 

[Xpike]

MGS4 was over an hour of nonsense and an insulting wedding. This, at least, has me intrigued, where 4 had me wishing I never wasted my time.

I'd rather listen to Code Talker go on about parasites than listen to that drivel in 4's cemetery scene.

you'd rather listen to parasites copulating than an actual emotional ending to all the characters the series showed so far?
ok

 

[Anth0ny]

finally got a chance to listen to those final zero tapes

god damn do I wish they made cutscenes for those rather than just audio. ugh.

 

[Arttemis]

Whether people liked it or not, I think most would acknowledge that what they witnessed at the end of MGS4 was indeed an ending. I'm pretty sure I've heard "Wow. Just completed Mission 46? Kojima, you magnificent bastard. Played me like a damn fiddle. (several WHOOOO memes later) Wait, that's it?" more times than I heard "wollllllbachiaaaaaaaaaa..... eeeeeeeeeeeeenglische streighnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn" in MGSV.

Just because 4 was blatantly and unambiguously wrapped up doesn't excuse the trash tier exposition and nonsense with which it was filled. I was beyond disappointed by the content and delivery of everything in 4.

you'd rather listen to parasites copulating than an actual emotional ending to all the characters the series showed so far?
ok

Nothing about Big Boss pontificating about ones and zeroes as a metaphor for his and Zero's life, chucked immediately after a vomit inducing plot point about Meryl and shitpants getting hitched, should ever be considered an "actual emotional ending". It was a 45 minute build-up for a joke that never came, and was completely tasteless and unenjoyable. I didn't need to see any of it to get a sense of resolution from characters.

 

[Love Deterrence]

Just because 4 was blatantly and unambiguously wrapped up doesn't excuse the trash tier exposition and nonsense with which it was filled. I was beyond disappointed by the content and delivery of everything in 4.

Like I said, you don't have to like it. But convince me it isn't an ending.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

So I finally finished the game tonight. A world of problems. All the heartfelt moments that should've had appropriate emotional impact were robbed of that because of much of an utter fuck up this story was. Chapter 1 also had its pacing issues not just chapter 2. God.......is this how you guys felt after mgs4 ended? Pleases tell me no....tell me this is worse.

MGS4 wasn't near as bad as V.
At least it tried shit, completed said shit all while going all out, non-stop.

 

[Dahbomb]

MG1 is even more muddled up than ever before since we don't know if Venom and BB were working together, if Venom went rogue, if BB betrayed him, which BB was talking to Snake on the radio, etc etc.

I thought the whole cyborg thing was already retconned out and they explained that by saying it was a body double in MG1.

What I felt happened is that:

*Big Boss ordered Solid Snake to infiltrate Outer Heaven which was controlled by Venom.

*Solid Snake is able to kill Venom in MG1.

*Solid Snake defeats Big Boss in MG2.


MGS4 Big Boss is based off of the 2nd MG2 Big Boss (aka the real one).

 

[SolVanderlyn]

The game gave us meme worthy cheesy lines in the year 2015, which is kind of impressive

They played us like a damn fiddle

START TALKING BITCH

Pax Hamburgana

Wolbachia

I'M BURNING UUUUPPPPP

Such a lust for revenge

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?

Revenge!! ~ Huey


And then for serious lines, we got a couple of awesome ones too.

I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea.

You're all diamonds.

Look around you... this is your family.

Just another mission, right Boss?

Yeah, that's right... blame me. ~ Venom to Eli

If only we spoke a common tongue. ~Quiet


So while the story was super sparse and not executed well, it had some good stuff in there.

 

[ezekial45]

Kojima brainwashing people into thinking he filled plotholes that were never there.

Venom doesn't make anything make more sense. Big Boss never died in MG1, he tells you himself at the end of the game, in MG2 he's a cyborg because of his injuries. MGSV retconned all this and now BB being a cyborg doesn't make sense.

MG1 is even more muddled up than ever before since we don't know if Venom and BB were working together, if Venom went rogue, if BB betrayed him, which BB was talking to Snake on the radio, etc etc.

Nothing changes from MG2 onwards, Venom is irrelevant after MG1.

The plot of both Metal Gear titles became largely irreverent the more MGS went on. It was just referred to the missions where Snake defeated Big Boss and Outer Heaven.

I also recall Kojima stating that he wanted to redo Metal Gear after MGSV because of the necessary retconning needed to make it fit. Which was actually needed long before MGSV came into the picture. The original Metal Gear just don't fit into the evolved and surreal bigger picture anymore, which explains why they had to make changes.

But yeah, I would really love a remake of MG 1 & 2. There's a lot of potential there to make something really special, but with Kojima leaving Konami, that's all it's gonna be.

 

[Love Deterrence]

The game gave us meme worthy cheesy lines in the year 2015, which is kind of impressive

They played us like a damn fiddle

START TALKING BITCH

Pax Hamburgana

Wolbachia

I'M BURNING UUUUPPPPP

Such a lust for revenge

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?

Revenge!! ~ Huey


And then for serious lines, we got a couple of awesome ones too.

I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea.

You're all diamonds.

Look around you... this is your family.

Just another mission, right Boss?

If only we spoke a common tongue.


So while the story was super sparse and not executed well, it had some good stuff in there.

The memes, Jack.

I'm surprised that The Boss' AI Pod didn't say this to Snake. What a waste.

 

[Dahbomb]

You guys should listen to the Kaz Hamburger cassette tapes. Hilarious stuff.


And yeah at this point MG1 and MG2 pretty much need to be remade to fit into the current MGS universe.

 

[Resilient]

The game gave us meme worthy cheesy lines in the year 2015, which is kind of impressive

They played us like a damn fiddle

START TALKING BITCH

Pax Hamburgana

Wolbachia

I'M BURNING UUUUPPPPP

Such a lust for revenge

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?

Revenge!! ~ Huey


And then for serious lines, we got a couple of awesome ones too.

I won't scatter your sorrow to the heartless sea.

You're all diamonds.

Look around you... this is your family.

Just another mission, right Boss?

Yeah, that's right... blame me. ~ Venom to Eli

If only we spoke a common tongue. ~Quiet


So while the story was super sparse and not executed well, it had some good stuff in there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYrh5h9acg8

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

You guys should listen to the Kaz Hamburger cassette tapes. Hilarious stuff.

Nature's blessings.

 

[Ōkami]

The memes, Jack.

I'm surprised that The Boss' AI Pod didn't say this to Snake. What a waste.

I actually think it does.

 

[Love Deterrence]

I actually think it does.

will take back everything i have said about game being incomplete - it is overly complete based kojima kojima kaminandesu hai

 

[Xpike]

mgs4 had the REX vs RAY and Liquid vs Snake battles
this one has 2 proper boss battles in the entire game and they aren't as good

 

[Krappadizzle]

You can pretend this happened instead:

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=178933097&postcount=5301

The other scene? A young man HALO jumps towards a remote location in Africa.

Not bad at all.

 

[Love Deterrence]

mgs4 had the REX vs RAY and Liquid vs Snake battles
this one has 2 proper boss battles in the entire game and they aren't as good

Quiet battle is awesome.
Eli battle is awesome.
Evangelion battle is cool (despite not being in the same breath as Peace Walker 2).

But yeah, the Skulls are largely forgettable. Beauty and the Beast Unit dumps nanomachines all on their Parasite asses.

 

[Roussow]

Ocelot and Naked Snake are totes like

Awh, man, that's perfect.

 

[Lunar15]

Ok, so I'm really confused about Huey.

Did I miss some tape or something? I felt he was pretty earnest the whole time, so I thought they were just setting up the fact that he was being framed. There really was no shock because they EXPECTED him to be lying the whole time. There's no real twist there. They expect him to be a liar and then he is.

The other thing I thought could be happening is that Mother Base became delusional under the strain of paranoia ala Lord of the Flies and that Huey was actually seeing what Mother Base was not. That's kind of how it was set up.

I just don't get that arc at all. I was really confused.

 

[rtcn63]

Ok, so I'm really confused about Huey.

Did I miss some tape or something? I felt he was pretty earnest the whole time, so I thought they were just setting up the fact that he was being framed.

That's the twist. The game made you think that it was possible Huey was being setup or misunderstood, but nope, he's just a shit. His characterization was done so it that could've conceivably gone either way, and IMO it was executed well enough.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Meanwhile Kaz and Venom are like

 

[razzmahtazz]

Too all the people saying PW and MGS3 was enough to explain BB's swerve into a warlord. Maybe thats the same thought going thru Kojima's head? "Havent I showed enough of why BB goes into MG1&2 the way he did? Maybe they want something new and complicated?"

lol

*sigh*

Everyone who plays the series should see this scene.

Even if you have, and you are using a technicality to make your point; that we never see children, acting as soldiers in MG2, the point stands that his end goal with every single one is to brainwash them in Zanzibar Land to become soldiers he can feed to the fire. Zanzibar Land as a nation only produces war, the only future for its citizens, the children seen throughout the game and the soldiers acting as enemies, is war, and eventually a gruesome death.

The plot of both Metal Gear titles became largely irreverent the more MGS went on. It was just referred to the missions where Snake defeated Big Boss and Outer Heaven.

I also recall Kojima stating that he wanted to redo Metal Gear after MGSV because of the necessary retconning needed to make it fit. Which was actually needed long before MGSV came into the picture. The original Metal Gear just don't fit into the evolved and surreal bigger picture anymore, which explains why they had to make changes.

But yeah, I would really love a remake of MG 1 & 2. There's a lot of potential there to make something really special, but with Kojima leaving Konami, that's all it's gonna be.

Yeh. If MGSV was seen as something that was supposed to revitalize the series inorder to remake MG1 and 2 then the line of thought of going open world suggests they would have made significant changes in how those remakes were going to go. It won't be infiltrating 1 big base like MGS1.

 

[Game4life]

Just because 4 was blatantly and unambiguously wrapped up doesn't excuse the trash tier exposition and nonsense with which it was filled. I was beyond disappointed by the content and delivery of everything in 4.

That may be the case but it was still infinitely more entertaining.

MGS4 had much better moments than anything in this game. The split screen sequence in MGS4 is better than anything in MGS5. I wont even bring the microwave scene. That is the problem with MGS V. It has the best stealth gameplay of all time but there are no standout Hideo authored moments in the game. It also has worse boss fights than 4 and that is why I am not surprised so many people in the ranking thread are ranking MGS4 over this one.

Yet it is my GOTY. The gameplay is so effing sublime that the rest of the mess is disappointing me even more.

 

[Owensboro]

I guess I'm insane. I just beat the whole game around 4pm today and I actually really enjoyed the end. I've tried reading through the thread to figure out why there's the disconnect between me and everyone else, and the only thing I can figure is that I went in blind with almost no build up. With no "this is the chapter that shows how BB went crazy" hype it just becomes a fun Metal Gear game.

Is there a reddit post with a list of main objections to the game or something similar? I'd love to read it to try and understand why everyone is so upset without having to dig through two GAF threads worth of posts.

 

[Xpike]

I guess I'm insane. I just beat the whole game around 4pm today and I actually really enjoyed the end. I've tried reading through the thread to figure out why there's the disconnect between me and everyone else, and the only thing I can figure is that I went in blind with almost no build up. With no "this is the chapter that shows how BB went crazy" hype it just becomes a fun Metal Gear game.

Is there a reddit post with a list of main objections to the game or something similar? I'd love to read it to try and understand why everyone is so upset without having to dig through two GAF threads worth of posts.

Some people are pissed that this isn't actually the chapter that shows Big Boss' descent into madness
Other are pissed that no one has any actual personality except Kaz.
Other because Quiet's outfit and poses and scenes are straight up adult video material
Others because there's no story at all
Others because Venom Snake is a wet fart of a character
Others because parasites and God Mantis are somehow shittier nanomachines

Pick your poison

 

[Kevin Shields]

MGS4 was over an hour of nonsense and an insulting wedding. This, at least, has me intrigued, where 4 had me wishing I never wasted my time.

I'd rather listen to Code Talker go on about parasites than listen to that drivel in 4's cemetery scene.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Super Stardust]

Random note but for me the star VA performer of MGSV was without a doubt Kaz. That dude's VA put in over work and showed the greatest range of emotions out of all the VAs in the game. I definitely enjoyed his lines the most.

Yep kaz is the best thing about this game, he has so many epic lines and they were executed so well. Does he ever find out that venom is a fake big boss?

 

[AEREC]

I guess I'm insane. I just beat the whole game around 4pm today and I actually really enjoyed the end. I've tried reading through the thread to figure out why there's the disconnect between me and everyone else, and the only thing I can figure is that I went in blind with almost no build up. With no "this is the chapter that shows how BB went crazy" hype it just becomes a fun Metal Gear game.

Is there a reddit post with a list of main objections to the game or something similar? I'd love to read it to try and understand why everyone is so upset without having to dig through two GAF threads worth of posts.

It seems the main complaints are:

1. You don't play as Big Boss
2. Chapter 2 is disjointed
3. Character motivations seem off

I loved the game and enjoyed the "twist"