The reason for this is simple. The majority of the EU citizens (please check the national polls) don't want these refugees in their countries. Unfortunately, the EU forces it upon the citizens anyway. Hell is going to break lose and rightfully so. We (the people) have no say in this. And that is a shame. Democracy? What's that?
Germany reinstates Border Controls - Temporarily exits from Schengen
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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The reason for this is simple. The majority of the EU citizens (please check the national polls) don't want these refugees in their countries. Unfortunately, the EU forces it upon the citizens anyway. Hell is going to break lose and rightfully so. We (the people) have no say in this. And that is a shame. Democracy? What's that?
Talked my friend that is currently on our southern border as special forces police officer. He is in constant talks with waiting migrants and translators.
Majority of migrants/refugees are not from Syria, but either Afghanistan or Iraq.
A lot of guys from Bangladesh, Pakistan, families from Iran and even few individuals from Somalia. Percentwise, number of Syrian refugees is around 30%.
It is not unusual that they give false names when waiting in the line for the bus transport (they are making lists for faster boarding) and when they arrive in refugee camp, they bring out totally different passport or ID.
They had a situation this night when another activist group tried to pursue waiting people to breach the border control and they managed to stop the traffic.
Majority of migrants/refugees are not from Syria, but either Afghanistan or Iraq.
A lot of guys from Bangladesh, Pakistan, families from Iran and even few individuals from Somalia. Percentwise, number of Syrian refugees is around 30%.
It is not unusual that they give false names when waiting in the line for the bus transport (they are making lists for faster boarding) and when they arrive in refugee camp, they bring out totally different passport or ID.
They had a situation this night when another activist group tried to pursue waiting people to breach the border control and they managed to stop the traffic.
CyclopsRock
Member
The reason the various governments aren't willing to take in more is largely because there are huge portions of their populations for which its undesirable - this would still be the case if they were forced to by the EU. It'd just mean people would hate the EU rather than their national governments.
I bet the natives and indigenous people of Latin America, North America and Australia are looking at these migration numbers and thinking no wonder you're so terrified because you saw what your unregulated migration did to our nations and way of life.
This demographic change is unprecedented because you're literally going to see millenia long ethnic majorities become minorities within a half century. More migrants are coming in than entire towns and cities in Europe. Croatia for example has a population of 4.2 million and so far, over 600 thousand migrants have come to Europe this year. It's no wonder you're seeing rising nationalism. No country in the world can withstand this kind of unfettered migration. Yeah it could be tolerable if they were settled according to population and quotas, but what's going to happen is that the majority will go to Germany, France and the UK, the countries that provide the greatest economic opportunity along with social welfare abilities.
Also, Germany temporarily withdrawing from Schengen with Austria is crazy seeing as how they've threatened others who wanted to do the same with sanctions or possible EU exits.
This demographic change is unprecedented because you're literally going to see millenia long ethnic majorities become minorities within a half century. More migrants are coming in than entire towns and cities in Europe. Croatia for example has a population of 4.2 million and so far, over 600 thousand migrants have come to Europe this year. It's no wonder you're seeing rising nationalism. No country in the world can withstand this kind of unfettered migration. Yeah it could be tolerable if they were settled according to population and quotas, but what's going to happen is that the majority will go to Germany, France and the UK, the countries that provide the greatest economic opportunity along with social welfare abilities.
Also, Germany temporarily withdrawing from Schengen with Austria is crazy seeing as how they've threatened others who wanted to do the same with sanctions or possible EU exits.
Syrian Christians are afraid for their lives in refugee camps because of isis supporters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=Ckp-hu1HnOI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=1&v=Ckp-hu1HnOI
Kill Your Masters
Member
Eastern european countries just want all the EU benefits, without the burdens. All they want is cash and funds and loans.
western countries arent any better with epxloiting the east in other ways though
Basically everything is interest based, and there is simply no interest in helping other people.
Maedre
Banned
oh, there is an interest in helping those people. Cheap labour.
ClosingADoor
Member
For some reason people are not allowed to bring that up, because these are all poor refugees. Nevermind we hear time and time again most are not even from Syria, but it seems that is not to be talked about.
At least with Eastern Europe, I have some faith they will become net contributors over time. We see a lot of growth there over the past two decades. That said, I think we should have waited before letting in countries like Romania and Bulgaria, until the previous batch have grown enough.
CyclopsRock
Member
Well yeah, that's the way all international agreements work. You wouldn't do it otherwise, right? I'm just saying that there's a sizable chunk of the population that don't want more refugees in their country and that this won't cease to be the case just because it's the EU forcing them to accept it rather than their national governments.
Not really. The Western countries all already have a source of cheap labour from the East, and minimum wages sufficiently high that - for unskilled labour at least - there's no reason why Syrian refugees will be likely to lower wage costs.
DiscoJer
Member
Even Europe had that happen.
Look at the British Isles. Only the very far places are still Celtic (Wales, Ireland, and Scotland), and even the Celts weren't native to the area. Other than some vague stuff about the Picts, we don't know much about the pre-Celtic inhabitants of it., other than they built stonehenge and such.
Or Spain. You have the Basque people still hanging on, but they've had to deal with Celts, then Romans, then Moors.
Ort the Scandinavian countries. While we commonly think they have always been "Nordic", the original inhabitants of the region were Sami. They were colonized and displaced by various Germanic tribes (who then invaded other parts of the world as Vikings or Normans, including France, England, and Ireland).
And the Middle East is just as bad. Look at the Copts in Egypt, the Yezidis in Iraq, the Zoroastrians in Iran. All used to be fairly dominant cultures in their lands, but were displaced by foreign colonizers. And look at the Kurds who have had their land, Kurdistan, split up with parts into 3 different countries, one of which, Turkey, really only existed in 1492 when the Byzantine Empire was conquered. (And largely unnoticed, the Turks are still warring with the Kurds)
It's just how the world works. Sometimes you end up with something better, like arguably in England where they forged an identity from all the diverse people who lived there, Celts, Romans, Germans (Angles/Saxons/Jutes), Normans, Danes, then later Asian Indians and assorted others from their empire.
But even so, it generally comes at the loss of a culture. It's essentially a form of darwinism.
Nice graphics on the end there, let's spread that shit around.
I'm wondering where people are getting their news from with the things that pop up in this thread.
iceatcs
Junior Member
You do realize that the report is from a german tv station?
So it doesn't really matter who uploaded this because the information itself and the report itself is legitimate. But hey i can appreciate what you are trying to do.
Oh, you don't mind the video is propogating hate sites under the guise of news? Ok, carry on!
ClosingADoor
Member
While that is not OK, it also does not invalidate the original airing on German tv. This is a regular tv station making the report, not some hate site.
Miles Quaritch
Member
If it's from a legitimate source, it'd probably be better to post that rather than one that's laced with a certain kind of message.
Plus it makes it less troublesome for others to source it later on.
ClosingADoor
Member
Here you go, same video without the outro graphic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCC1Kwxs_Lk
CloverCarr
Banned
That was a good read. Very true too.
Even tiny Belgium have issues and only come together when their national team is winning football games
iBlue
Member
Are refugees going back to their countries after the war is over or they are actually getting a free pass to get a EU citizenship?
Miles Quaritch
Member
Thanks. Wasn't that hard, not sure why the other video needed to be posted...
Theyll probably be incentivised financally by the goverment to go back once their home country is safe. At least thats how it was done during kosovo. Might be difficult this time with so many refugees faking their name and origin.
Because it has english subtitles, I imagine many don't speak german so the video without subtitles won't be of much use.
Doczu
Member
By looking how many refugees stayed in the Netherlands after the Balkan crisis - no, they will stay.
I am used to not finding some videos on youtube of stuff that actually happens don't have that problem with liveleak go figure.
Ok deleted the liveleak link with the shit outro since people use it as a excuse to ignore the video/are more concerned with the videos outro than the actual content of the report, no word about that not a single one.
Moff
Member
that's not how democracy works, though.
obama doesn't do a national poll every time he makes a decision and I doubt you'd want him to. but the US are still a democracy.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Understandable, but in such instances, it's still better to provide a legitimate source first and then present the less desirable one.
It stops people from doubting the story as they know it's at least from a reliable source that other groups have latched onto and used for their own purposes.
ClosingADoor
Member
This is a problem with this discussion. Every time someone raises some concerns, they are seen as racists or the "you want children to die!" argument comes up. Of course there are racists around and some people want to refuse them for that reason, but there are a lot of legitimate concerns and problems that are ignored because of that.
There are people making this dangerous journey and drowning in the ocean, because of the open borders and promises human traffickers make. There are people from other countries blending in. There are incidents of violence which should be addressed.
That's a bit of a stretch I think. They would certainly raise suspicion quickly when speaking Spanish or Portuguese. They would have to fly in to Serbia or Turkey or something and then cross the border with the refugees and live illegally from there. I don't think that is much of a realistic scenario.
MisterFalcon
Member
The same was reported in a Dutch refugee center, the few Christian refugees get pressured into converting and get pushed out of common spaces like the kitchen as these are claimed for prayer.
maniac-kun
Member
In which country is this? Im at work.
ClosingADoor
Member
The Netherlands. Some more info here, but needs Google Translate if you don't speak Dutch: http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/07/22/spanningen-tussen-christenen-en-moslims-in-asielzoekerscentra/
I need to avoid this thread because the sheer incompetence of it all makes my blood boil. Its like nobody in power gives a fuck about the state or the people, and even in this thread anyone who expresses any concerns is shouted down with racism accusations. Fuck it then. Lets all drown together.
Napalm_Frank
Member
The situation seems to be really brewing in Finland. 90% of the newsfeed seems to be about the refugees. The issue is in your face all the time on all medias.
Doczu
Member
This whole thread is a perfect example of kafkatrapping.
Marauder Shields
Member
You're not going to get a rational discussion on immigration around these parts. Economic factors don't seem to really matter. Just let everyone in.
CadetMahoney
Member
I think he means if someone already in Germany sees a crowd and congregates in with them before they reach where they go to be processed.
Don't see how that could work though if the translators aren't morons, also you'd usually need a valid passport, but that would be rediculous imo, wouldn't be surprised if they let that requirement go. So the only thing would be language barrier, someone from Uruguay could pass on looks maybe, but not on language.
Plus you're still not allowed to work legally until you become a refugee, if you're applying to become one you're an Asylum Seeker and cannot work legally. How long does it take for that decision to be made? 5 years or something. With a huge backlog it would be like 10 years not being able to work legally roff.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-asylumseekers-are-left-in-limbo-9824344.html
Pissing me off too. If you want to stay, sign a f**king contract to leave others who are different from you and do not adhere to your religion in peace, if you cannot do that, get the hell out. What are they going to do when the see people of the same sex holding hands?
It's not that had to respect the rules of your new country and the way people choose to live with their lives whether you agree with it or not.
Milly Osworth
Member
That's religion for you. Always trying to convert and force others their silly ways whenever they get the chance.
I also wouldn't rely on hate-sites for my translation needs, or think it's worth posting a video that propogates them.
Or do we want the same lee-way applied to everything else on GAF for how news is reported here? The next police-shooting thread would be interesting.
If something is presented as playing into a very specific narrative, I wouldn't be so quick to play up to it. And even assuming the translation is correct, the content of the video didn't warrant it. The actual message of it is journalists want more access to find out exactly what the situation is.
Not quite as attention-grabbing that though is it.
ClosingADoor
Member
What is your point here? There are multiple reports about Christian refugees being at least intimidated by Muslim refugees. Seems to me like a big enough problem already.
And then it is a problem when journalists are not allowed to ask questions to investigate these issues. Should we just ignore these issues (that are again, reported by reputable news organizations) because somewhere a hate site uses it for their propaganda?
Do you have any point in the video where the translation is not accurate? I'm at work now without headphones, so can't listen, but I'd be interested if it was inaccurate of course.
Watched it again and the translation seems fine to me.
Not necessarily. Lots of people make great posts. You just have to post rationally. I've never once felt I couldn't post something here for fear someone else would be upset or not get it.
Unregulated migration should never be welcomed for any country. Legal migration works. It's why Asians, Indians who are brought to the US assimilate and have it easier to be upwardly mobile than say illegal immigrants from Latin America or Mexico who crossed the border.
Most of these refugees are underskilled, undereducated, and not only have no family or friends waiting in these countries, but also have a poor understanding of the language or cultures. Compare and contrast these people with say a graduate student applying for a student visa from India or South Korea to study in the UK, or a nurse from the Caribbean wanting to come and work in France or Germany.
The biggest issue is the fact the sheer numbers will overwhelmed where ever they end up. Humans need to eat and survive. You're never going to get assimilation by having 200,000 Syrians be put into a town of 2 million Danes or Spaniards. Many of these people will struggle, they have no social net beyond government welfare and and so will never be upwardly mobile. Their kids will be raised in low class neighborhoods rife with poverty. Areas with large groups will become ethnic slums because how will a 40 year old adult learn how to speak Slovenian or German? What jobs can he get? Crime will rise as well because people need to survive and eat, underground economies etc. Look at the wave of Italians into the US during the 20's, 30's and 40's. See the repercussions of Little Italy and the rise of the Sicilian mafia and 'their own way of doing things'.
Additionally, another issue is that just a few handful of countries are sharing the burden. Germany has taken so many, France has so many and coastal countries like Greece and Italy have entire towns that are full. This is beyond just Syrian refugees, you have Iraqi, Afghanistan refugees, not to mention the thousands arriving by boat from Eritrea, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia and other North African countries.
This would be easier if each country took a set number based on population or percentage, but the sheer number means that it's too much. There seems to be no slow down either, but an increase. And the sad part is, no one is willing or has any clue how to stop it. Serbia is threatening Croatia which is forcing the migrants to Hungary which is erecting fences. Nationalism is rising, hate speech and rhetoric are on the rise, the very ideals of European unity, Schengen accords are being done away with. This is a flashpoint. Maybe the European nations who have shied away from military responsibility or world engagement can now help stabilize the situation in Syria. Even Turkey which is fed up of having 1 million plus refugees has joined the fight against Isis, etc.
The translation is spot on but I apologize for the liveleak link this was wrong from me and i got rightfully shit for it.
There are other links in here from youtube that show exactly the same and the report was on TV so lets not make the liveleak link the big story here when we have other sources and the report itself is what actually matters.
Marauder Shields
Member
Agree with a lot of what you said. These unskilled economic migrants are going to be a mess for Europe.
It doesn't have to be a mess if the leaders of Europe think this through rationally and are unified in their approach. Why is it most who are supposedly fleeing war and poverty don't want to stay in Croatia or Hungary but want to go to Germany or France or the UK. Because these countries provide greater economic benefit and a larger social safety net. But there is a limit. Germany is going to be severely overwhelmed if Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt, Hamburg and other large metro cities all of a sudden get tens of thousands of new arrivals, many of whom don't have the first clue about jobs, schools, education, employment or even the language and culture.
But you're right, already the repercussions will be felt in a few decades from now. It's just crazy how many people are arriving and entering. 5,000+ a day by boats in the Mediterranean, 10,000+ by land crossings and vehicles and there is no end in sight, because people feel the doors are closing and this is their last shot.
Europe itself is in stagnation and decline. Even before the recession, very few were posting giant growth numbers. The economies are post-industrial, demographics have many baby boomers and seniors aging with lower and lower native birthrates so it's not just the refugees, it's going to be the higher number of births they have as well. I don't know, I don't see any way this ends without border restrictions imposed EU wide, deportations of many people, rising nationalism. It's time to stabilize Syria. With Russia propping up Assad, ISIS becoming stable and in total control of their land, it makes no favorable outcome anytime soon.
Already countries like Italy have stopped a lot of rescue and coastal missions. Many are also forcing governments to detain boats and prevent people from trying to reach, much like Australia now intercepts boats at sea to turn them around or gets Indonesia and Malaysia and others to receive migrant seekers.
Marauder Shields
Member
What would you see as being the appropriate unified approach? As you mentioned a lot of these economic migrants are wanting to go to countries like Germany and Sweden for their various welfare benefits. So say countries like Croatia agreed to accommodate more refugees and take on more of the burden, what's to say these migrants won't just try to move to Germany again?
I don't see how more EU countries sharing more of the migrant burden could work due to the disparity in welfare benefits and safety nets across EU countries. These economic migrants are always going to want to go to the country with the best welfare benefits. Unless you were thinking of other methods of a unified approach?
It's a BIG jump to saying ISIS supporters are in the camps because of what one person says he's heard being said from the Quran.
It's also a dangerous one, which is why those sites have seized on it and want it spread. Again, the message of the video is journalists want more access to find out exactly what conditions and everything else is like. Not this person tells us exactly what is going on, it's full of ISIS!
GAF is a bit more responsible when it comes to other matters, and we should be in this thread as well. That video wasn't enough to run with, and if the topic is going to be discussed when it can fuel so much existing prejudice we're going to need more to go on than that.
Otherwise we're no better than the sites that use these things to fit their existing narrative.
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