Portugeezer
Member
Ugh, I guess I have to go get the escaped kids...
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Ugh, I guess I have to go get the escaped kids...
Thats a fun mission.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I made a big analysis on the difference between the side ops in TPP vs PW like 20 pages back but the big thing I found was.
TPP has 10 unique objective types for 157 missions.
PW has 30 unique objective types for 140 missions.
Unique is used basically how the game breaks things up, so destroy the armored vehicle unit is a unique objectives compared to destroy the enemy tank unit.
But if you really break it down by TRULY unique objectives.
TPP has 3 unique objectives and PW has about 20.
TPP's side ops are a total fucking travesty.
Bonus disc lists mission 51 that was a cut episode and the rest is data mined or based on the quality of the unfinished product.
There are no tapes like that in the field, they're always given to you. The last story related tapes you get are at the truth tapes after finishing mission 46.
Man Side Op missions are such horseshit.
It's like 8 different missions that you have to do like 8 times each. Kill tank unit, kill heavy infantry, extract soldier/prisoner/wandering dude, get blue print, extract resource, blow up mines... And there are over 150 of them.
Worst of all the side ops don't get unlocked until you complete them one by one so you would do 4, there would be no more side ops to complete then you would have to go back to the helicopter to make new ones pop up and then get get deployed in. Most other open world games actually have the decency to have these missions unlock when you go near them or they are unlocked already so you can just do all side missions in a quadrant of a map one at a time then move on to the next. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the same area numerous times to do different (yet similar) side ops.
Amateur hour stuff right here to be honest.
The game gets away with it because even if you are doing virtually the same thing the mechanics of the game play and systems somehow make many of these encounters fun. Especially with the additional difficulty modifiers so you may have to extract a prisoner that is guarded by dudes that are completely decked out with gear compared to last time. Plus after a few side ops you are likely to get new toys to play around with as well which means you are likely to switch up your approach to the situation.
It's like 8 different missions that you have to do like 8 times each. Kill tank unit, kill heavy infantry, extract soldier/prisoner/wandering dude, get blue print, extract resource, blow up mines... And there are over 150 of them.
Worst of all the side ops don't get unlocked until you complete them one by one so you would do 4, there would be no more side ops to complete then you would have to go back to the helicopter to make new ones pop up and then get get deployed in. Most other open world games actually have the decency to have these missions unlock when you go near them or they are unlocked already so you can just do all side missions in a quadrant of a map one at a time then move on to the next. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to the same area numerous times to do different (yet similar) side ops.
Amateur hour stuff right here to be honest.
The game gets away with it because even if you are doing virtually the same thing the mechanics of the game play and systems somehow make many of these encounters fun. Especially with the additional difficulty modifiers so you may have to extract a prisoner that is guarded by dudes that are completely decked out with gear compared to last time. Plus after a few side ops you are likely to get new toys to play around with as well which means you are likely to switch up your approach to the situation.
Its all a different skin for a "Fulton" mission.
Furlton a tank
Furlton soldier
Furlton POW
UnblessedSoul
Member
The gameplay in open world is a huge improvement over past metal gears no doubt. How the story was presented, the characters being so bland and quite frankly outright weird (Huey), Snake being a mute, the awkward cut-scene moments (there was plenty), the cut content. That was all a let down to me, maybe Konami being on Kojimas back effected his work ethic, having him make wrong decisions, maybe making a new engine alongside the game had side effects. Chapter 1 felt like being about half way through the story then they just rushed out the rest of it. This should have been a 2016 title. So I'm gonna place the blame on Konami. This game could have been so much more, feels bad.
EDIT: And dont get me started on them cramming anything important into those boring tapes, that was clearly a huge mistake
EDIT: And dont get me started on them cramming anything important into those boring tapes, that was clearly a huge mistake
The eliminate tank units doesn't mean you have to fulton them, you can just blow them up. It's more efficient to fulton them of course but you can go the guns blazing route as well since you aren't being ranked on stealth for the side ops. Gives your bombardment strikes, mines and rocket launchers some use. Plus you still have to kill their choppers which are usually patrolling these tanks as well in the later ones.
But yeah I do see what you are saying here.
Yea... i actually felt Chapter 1 was well paced. Even if some things were lacking, i felt it was building up to something. Then here comes chapter 2 where everything is shoved into like 5 missions.
MrJoobJoob
Member
I'm about 30 hours in and I think I can safely say PeaceWalker does almost everything better, other than the technical side of graphics.
Better overall plot & storytelling, faster gameplay with simpler controls, freaking awesome boss battles, everything is co-op compatible, and most importantly close to 0 downtime in between missions. I don't have time to wait for the helicopter to pick me up + loading just to complete a single side op. I don't have time to wait for D-Horse to drop in so I can ride 1000m across a mostly empty map just to get to my next mission objective. PeaceWalker was so much faster in this regard and actually respected my time.
Better overall plot & storytelling, faster gameplay with simpler controls, freaking awesome boss battles, everything is co-op compatible, and most importantly close to 0 downtime in between missions. I don't have time to wait for the helicopter to pick me up + loading just to complete a single side op. I don't have time to wait for D-Horse to drop in so I can ride 1000m across a mostly empty map just to get to my next mission objective. PeaceWalker was so much faster in this regard and actually respected my time.
See this shit is just madness to me. Absolute madness. Except for PW having a far more cohesive and fleshed out plot, MGSV is vastly, giantly superior in every single aspect imo.
This thread really needs more from the positive side. It's 80% and echo chamber of hate. I've seen like 20 people in the OT who said they loved the twist and liked the story, and they just disappear, never to be seen again. Certainly not in here, discussing the game.
Mainly playing devil's advocate here, but I think the far more intricate, large and emergent world of MGSV makes up for the lower variety of actual objectives. Ie the world itself adds little objectives and situations to even the most mundane side op.
... Well maybe not the most mundane. But basically I found PW's tiny levels/worlds really frustrating at every turn and that really did hamper my enjoyment. In MGSV I don't care if I need to get Prisoner 9,201 from a random base I've been to before, because I know different shit will go down on the base and there'll be more stuff to collect there.
I can agree with this.
I can understand to a certain extent for sure, but I still don't fully get that stuff either. It has it's faults, sure. Any game attempting to shove one last bit of story into a 25 real world years old timeline probably will, especially with all the crazy shit Metal Gear is filled with.
But the Skullface story, this game's main story, was opened and closed pretty seemlessly. It wasn't the most exciting of MG stories and yes there were some pretty awkward scenes, (the title of this thread being one, the awkward-ass car ride with Skullface being another, ect.) but it was wrapped up nicely without many loose ends hanging. Which is actually pretty rare for a Metal Gear that wasn't 3. Quiet was a cool character, and her story was also opened and closed rather nicely. (Even though her directing the helicopter was once again another awkward scene).
The stuff after that just seem to me that it was Kojima trying to give the long time Metal Gear fans what they really want. He succeeded in some areas, failed in others, and completely threw some shit out the window, but it was enough to leave me happy and talking to my fellow MG buddies at bars about it for days.
I'm just used to Metal Gear having a certain amount of awkward and nonsensical to it. When I hear Skullface say this thread title's line, I'll chuckle a little inside, but it doesn't take me out of the experience at all. The only thing I found truly dissapointing was Eli's finale getting cut. Because yeah, in game, that shit is stupid. He just takes Salawhatchimacallit, along with a group of kids full of the English parasite strain, bails, and that's it? The fuck? That's a pretty big deal, and really a huge bummer that it's resolution was cut from the game.
From reading through the thread it seems more like people are upset with Metal Gear's story in general at this point. With the way the story chose to go in stuff like MGS4, and how that affected the other games including MGS5.
Graphics Horse
Member
Why aren't there available vehicles at every or most guard posts?
I agree with this. I don't think Kojima could have physically, possibly given the story people wanted or expected. Fully at least.
I 100% agree more could have been done. I'd never deny that. But I think we still got a good amount of story, executed well enough, to be happy on some level. The fact it supports some of the greatest gameplay of all time almost fully excuses it in my eyes.
Kevin Shields
Member
Peace walker may be faster but Phantom Pain's gameplay eats it up and shits it out. Just miles and miles better. I just don't even know what to say...
But that's the thing, in terms of the plot, the game doesn't even hope to reach the same level of standards (And by standards I mean everything from quality to insanity) as the other games.
Skull Face is a completely forgettable villain. The story has no climax. As much as a certain group of people hate on MGS4, that game at least had a very powerful climax. This game just doesn't. You do some Side Ops and the game unlocks the Truth mission just like that.
Where's the build up?
Solid Raiden
Neo Member
I finally got around to unlocking the "trught". I'm not going to lie, I was hesitant to want to do so following all of the backlash, but that was it? Really? I loved it. I mean, the game was obviously unfinished for whatever actual reason, and while I loved every minute of the game, I absolutely understand any and all critisim levied at the game for that. However, I can't be the only one who found the "truth' to be brilliant, can I?
A) this should go in the OT
B) IRL not every checkpoint or outpost has vehicles
C) just call one in, baby. It's tippance GMP-wise by the end-game
Yes. I loved it, seemingly along with a handful of other people ITT. Obviously lots was cut from the game and it could have done many plotlines/characters more justice. But I still loved it. (PS the tapes after The Truth are incredible, too.)
What I really want to know is what the masses think. The millions who have bought the game but will never touch a gaming forum. How did they react?
Probably didn't give a shit and just enjoyed the game.
I'm sorry. MGS4 did not have a powerful climax. It was one of the most shambolic and clumsy things I've ever seen. It could walk the walk, it couldn't talk the talk. There were nice moments, overshadowed by gallons of gunk and waffle, with last moments that felt like it was trying way too hard. It ran out of 'power' about 20 minutes in, and barely regained any of it.
MrJoobJoob
Member
Maybe if Phantom Pain had some bosses or interesting enemies to fight, but I'm 30 hours in and the entire game has been sneak, tranquilize, fulton -- rinse & repeat -- all with really forgiving stealth mechanics that don't require any advanced tactics as far as I know. At least PW had co-op and some boss battles.
Getting S ranks in PW actually required you to memorize patrol paths and sometimes move as fast as possible. So far I've S-ranked the first 20 missions of Phantom Pain and it has been a cakewalk. You can even get spotted and go non-lethal, and as long as you didn't spend 10 minutes wandering around you'll get the S.
Still a hell of a lot better than "whatever" MGSV tried to give us while failing miserably.
I don't have a problem with a twist or even the twist itself just that it felt pretty pointless. It just happens independent of pretty much everything else in the game. The game doesn't suffer if mission 46 didn't happen, if anything it just makes things messier that it is in the game. Compare this to say MGS2 or MGS3 where the late game twists are supported by the rest of the game and are the metaphorical mic drops that highlight the themes of the respective games.
MGS4 is kinda the same way in that the post credits Big Boss revival was unneeded. Twists for the sake of twists.
MGS4 is kinda the same way in that the post credits Big Boss revival was unneeded. Twists for the sake of twists.
Soo... is there a bug where side op 60 (last of the wandering soldier extractions) doesn't unlock or am I missing something? I thought it would unlock after you show all the previous photos to Paz but no. A little googling told me that it should unlock after mission 38 and side op 59, but I've done both and still no side op 60. Please tell me I'm missing something because if there's a bug that won't let me finish all the side ops I'll be so god damn pissed :S
My issue is not the twist itself either. I actually think the twist was well presented as dialogue between Kojima and the player.
What i don't like is that all you did... EVERYTHING.. .has no impact on the story or the development of BB. This game discards all you did, because you are not playing as BB. Sure they say that you are BB and BB is you... which is a nice rhetoric. But in the end, the story that was described was a BB becoming the villain. This never happened.
Not to mention either that everything of importance, story wise in the game, happens elsewhere. Hey Boss..listen to this tape of this really important bit that just happened.
Who is recording all these important hidden tapes too? WHOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Kevin Shields
Member
Im playing markers off,no reflex and it's plenty tough for me to get an S. But metal gear has never been a good pure stealth game. Its not even close to Thief or Chaos Theory pure stealth wise but its been action stealth. The sandboxes here are the best out there in my opinion. Yea if you do the same damn thing every time your not gonna have fun, but if you take imaginative approaches it's freaking amazing. Hitman Blood Money was easy as shit if you use same tactics every time, but when you get imaginative, it's a whole different world.
You S ranked the first 20 missions the first time you played? That's impressive, you may be just best gamer ever.
One thing is I wish they penalized you for abusing checkpoints like Ground Zeroes did. That was awesome.
Let's not go too far down this rabbit hole - but I definitely disagree.
MGSV struck a few developments, gave us some food for thought, loads of gameplay, and wrapped it up. Nothing like "whatever" MGS4 tried to give me for 20 hours, 8 of which I played, and failed miserably.
I'm being facetious there, but you get the point. I literally gave up on the series after I watched MGS4's last cutscene. I didn't want to play it again, didn't really want to think about how Koji had tied it off. But after MGSV's last cutscene? Sat for a couple of minutes. Played for another hour, having fun. Went to bed. Got up. Played for another 4 hours, listening to tapes. Decided it was a masterpiece. Went out for a drink. Finished with a distinctly positive and upbeat feeling and was keen to play more.
Why are people believing that ingsoc is real its annoying and now they have a a chat room http://ingsoc.org/204863.html
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I'd argue that the rest of the game DOES support the twist in the sense that the game revolves around spreading the legend of Big Boss.
You hear soldier conversations talking about his exploits as you progress through the game. You're this myth, this legend that you're helping to circulate without actually being the man. This idea of legends not being what they were supposed to be was talked about in MGS1 and MGS2. Snake tells Meryl the real Solid Snake is nothing like the legend. Then in MGS2 he tells Raiden that legends are just stories that people remember, interpret, then pass onto the future. In MGS3 this is showcased firsthand as the premier mission of Big Boss turns out to be largely built on lies. Eva in MGS4 outright states that Big Boss' legend was built on lies and exaggerations by Zero. This game is proof of her statement.
I acknowledge that while also agreeing that the game itself does virtually nothing to the timeline. It doesn't change anything. It doesn't showcase some of the moments and characters we wanted to see including but not limited to: Naomi and Grey Fox, Sniper Wolf as a child, Liquid being treated like dirt by Big Boss, and a more tangible connection to the final version of Outer Heaven we see in MG1. I also acknowledge that Chapter 2's layout is plain weird and disjointed and the fact you replay the tutorial mission is dumb bullshit.
You may be my antithesis. I had it the other way around completely. I watched the MGS4 ending, orgasmed, went to Heaven and beyond, and it further cemented the series as legendary in my eyes.
I watched the MGSV ending and I was just like "WTF"?, with absolutely no desire to keep playing it anymore.
Yeah, but Peace Walker plays like shit.
You should mix things up and use all those wonderful toys you can develop. Even now after 80 hours I'm still having brilliant fun messing about with all the systems. It's the only metal gear game I've found truly fun to 'go loud' in.
Whats this about?
giancarlo123x
Banned
I'll take MGS4's batshit insane ending of the this "conclusions" MGSV offers. I don't think I've ever been this mad at a story in a videogame before. Hurts more that it comes from my favorite series of all time.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
At least they are there. MGS4 did not have much extra singleplayer content :\ and it took years just to get trophies!
I played around once or twice with the toys and went straight back to the methods that work for me.
Haha. I guess I always valued the MGS gameplay more than the story - as much as I do love the story. So even though MGS4 did do a good job of a lot of the story, the volume and density of cutscenes fucking ruined it for me. It undermined the entire experience. I'd fall in love with the gameplay then the controller would be out of my hands 5-15 minutes later. And this went on for 20 hours. I also hated how they structured it, it didn't feel like MGS any more because we did 5 random missions in generally random places instead of one badass mission in one badass place. PW and TPP embraced that more and it worked, but MGS4 was a halfway house.
Also, the bad bits of MGS4's story really stood out for me. Like the abortion that was Johnny. The last scene with Big Boss - which could have been god-tier, but was instead just rambley and 'kinda okay'. And I detested the final moment where Solid Snake fails to shoot himself directly in the head. It was like 'You're going to stretch this out more?!'
Anyway, no matter which way you slice it, I doubt any creator can say they've created so many experiences that are so absolutely different and idiosyncratic in their own way. It's quite an achievement.
Lol. I wouldn't say shit, but I definitely find it hilarious that people are positively comparing PW's gameplay to TPP's.
Fair enough, I certainly don't blame anyone for playing MGSV the tried and trusted way. Let's just say with the box of toys and tricks I'm a happy metal gear fan
Last night I developed my magnum 44 so currently I'm dirty harrying it up at outposts. Going to get my max battle dress made too. Next on the list is shield madness, maybe in conjunction with my 44!
But the thing is that MGS3 already established the facade of Big Boss as a legend and even what you did in Peace Walker cements the legacy of Big Boss far more than anything you do in this game. I get what Kojima was going for, that you (collectively, all of us) are propagating the myth but in the game's universe itself it kinda falls apart. If the goal was keeping Big Boss the legend alive, why keep Venom in a coma for 9 years? 9 years with Big Boss gone from the world. How is Big Boss building Outer Haven or Zanzibarland, he certainly cannot use the Big Boss name as cache since Diamond Dogs exists. It's a retread without nearly the same level of execution.
Then there's the whole theme of revenge, despite being name dropped ever other line is woefully half baked. For a character called Venom and counterpart in Skull Face who gets consumed by it, he's not bubbling with desires for revenge. There's this feeling that we're supposed to think Venom is driven for revenge against Skull Face or even Cipher but that's just Miller. Trying to make Venom as the avatar for the player and offloading everything to other characters just makes him seem devoid of feeling and barely an actor in the game.
BotchPoppaPump
Member
So very much this.
Everything's always so black and white 
I can't be the only one that thinks that MGSV and MGS4 are on the extreme sides of a spectrum, and a better game exists at a medium between the two.
This is like the codecs vs tapes debate, there's no need to settle for one or the other when there is the possibility of something better
I can't be the only one that thinks that MGSV and MGS4 are on the extreme sides of a spectrum, and a better game exists at a medium between the two.
This is like the codecs vs tapes debate, there's no need to settle for one or the other when there is the possibility of something better
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
It is a retread, KarmaCow. Like I said it doesn't actually add much of anything to the story.
Limited player agency makes sense since you're not supposed to be playing yourself like an RPG. You're just Big Boss the legendary mercenary who does legendary mercenary stuff. A proxy.
Limited player agency makes sense since you're not supposed to be playing yourself like an RPG. You're just Big Boss the legendary mercenary who does legendary mercenary stuff. A proxy.
But what else could it really do? There's only so many stories that Metal Gear can tell. There's only so many "OMG THIS NEW METAL GEAR WILL RULE THE WORLD!!" There's only so many things that the series can tie up at this point, and the last thing it need is MORE loose ends.
The Skullface story was simple, and something like MGS3 is leaps and bounds ahead of it, but that's kind of what this game needed. It didn't need to give us a big complex story that could potentially fuck up the timeline even more. Comparing MGS4's climax to MGS5'S just doesn't seem fair. 4 was attempting to resolve the entire Metal Gear story, where as 5's was just to give more context into what Big Boss was doing at that time and Mother Base/Outer Haven.
Honestly, the Ground Zeroes incident alone would be enough to turn Big Boss into the "demon" we know in MG1&2, and enough to turn him against Zero and Cipher even further to the point to where his state in MG1 makes sense. That is why I like the twist myself. Like another poster stated, put a great emphasis on "legends", but more than that, it shows that Big Boss has already made up his mind. He doesn't need to go through more shit to become the villain he was in MG1&2. He already killed his mentor and possibly his lover, was put through hell in Costa Rica for attempting to help and had to go through watching his mentor die again as an AI, was attacked by Cipher from the inside, and then once AGAIN later, the second time having his entire base and so many soldiers lives lost. All of which was orchestrated by powers beyond his control, no matter how strong he became.
Because of that, the twist makes a lot of sense to me. Where as in reality, the real Big Boss has been tired of this shit a long time ago, Venom has the abilty to do something different. In the end, he too ends up becoming part of the horror, just like Big Boss. It's unavoidable, and Big Boss understands that now. None of this story even really needed to be told. We just wanted to see it. Venom gave us a game, where Big Boss didn't need to. And that to me makes much more sense.
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