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[Not Spaceghost]

I really feel like I'm about to articulate this poorly because this is a messy rant but something that really bothers me is that if a weapon can't equip a suppressor it's pretty much useless. Hell so many weapons are pretty much useless.

Using shotguns is essentially a novelty thing you do mainly for kicks (out side of missions with the skulls), sure you can equip a suppressor on the later models but it's still a bit dumb that you need a suppressor to make a weapon functional.

In peace walker I recall the non lethal shotgun being an EXTREMELY useful weapon because of the way the vehicle bosses were structured, where KOing X amount of dudes and fultoning them out meant you could non lethal take down the tank driver and capture it.

In general in every other MGS game the heavy weapons have all felt like they have their place. Because you know the other games in the series had actual boss fights, that were consistently placed through out the game, sure MGSV gives you scenarios to take down big tank units and stuff, but the way the game is structured all that really means is either you're gonna keep your normal load out and fulton them out or you'll bring a rocket launcher and some C4. There are VERY FEW reasons to actually bring either a shotgun or an LMG, going full rambo penalizes you not just in rank (for obvious reasons I am okay with) but by giving you demon points.

The enemy always has such a massive advantage during full combat situations because you're not given a soliton radar this time around (did people just forget how to build one?) so they can hit you from all angles and you have to basically find them manually to deal with them (or use the NVG's if they're a high enough rank).

Basically the reason this frustrates me is why include such a large selection of weapons if you're going to render most of them useless? Why not include more unique gimmicky weapons that do different things instead of 3 kinds of lethal SMGs? Where is my railgun? Where is my electric prod?

Why can i choose between 5 different kinds of assault rifles when I'm only actually gonna either go with the cheapest GMP option with the best silencer, or the non lethal option?

The fucking weapon selection is mostly bloat as far as I'm concerned. In peace walker it made sense because you could actually bring 3 rocket launchers (each slot had to have a unique weapon in it) on a mission since supply drops were limited to an actual item you had to bring.

It talks about giving you options but you are only given a lot of meaningless options. For the most part the difference between guns like the ZE'EV and the SZ 336 is cosmetic, sure the attachments you can put on them vary but to what end? You can still use a weapon with awful effective range at range if you're careful with it and don't spray.

Why would I use a revolver other than "because I feel like it"? It's funny because mission 29 is the one that made me realize how moot the "diverse" weapon selection is when only a few weapons actually help gun down the skulls. The shotgun, one of the LMGs and the brennan, everything else was just mostly ineffective. I tried pistols like the urgan and the revolver, but they did so little damage that even switching to them as a "backup" felt like a waste of time compared to running behind cover and reloading my primaries, or just switching between my two primaries.

All I ask for is that you give the weapons fucking purpose. Why do I have 5 fucking rocket launchers when only 3 of them are actually different mechanically?

You know it's a problem when the water pistol the goddamn joke weapon of the game is 100 times more useful than a revolver.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Nobody will remember this game in 5 years but everybody will remember Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake injecting eacht other with nanomachines to fight, one last time.

This game does so many things right gameplay wise that it'd be a damn shame to forget it.

 

[GodzillaDB]

Whoa whoa whoa...by the orders of Cipher?

Major Zero was still the head of the organization at the time, but his scheme with healing a dormant Big Boss was done in complete secrecy. As a result, Cipher as a whole wasn't aware of his actions as a means to ensure that other prominent figures, like Donald Anderson or Para-Medic/Dr. Clark for example, couldn't act against the fallen legend in their strive for totalitarism. Zero's infection lead to him commissioning Dr. Strangelove to develop the advanced A.I. systems that ultimately presumes control of Cipher/The Patriots by the events of MGS2: Sons of Liberty. I suppose the confusion might be a result of my wording, but the label "Cipher" has sometimes been applied to reference Major Zero specifically since he's at the top of the circus.

 

[brau]

Well that's the work around, if you want it to remain difficult then maybe don't go after the enemies supplies? And again I was only addressing the point in my original post.

Yep. i get you... and i understand where you are coming from.

The thing is... even with this reply. its obvious that YOU are the one that needs to make the adjustments to make the game fun. YOU are the one making the decision to ignore an element of the game to make a handicap. or YOU are the one setting a goal in the game to make it more challenging.

The game never adapts to you in a way that makes you need to change dramatically. Except for those 2 missions where they leave you with nothing and you have to procure everything on site. Those being some really fresh takes on the game.

GZ had more variety too tho... different kind of missions. Invade the camp on your chopper and protect the civilian. Take on 2 targets and eliminate them. Story mission. Destroy emplacements. Because GZ is a smaller place, i think the experience is a lot better.In TPP it just feels diluted.

 

[Death Metalist]

The game's stealth sandbox mechanics are too fun despite the story. It will be remembered fondly.

Yup. The salt from this game is something else really and this is coming from a hardcore MGS fan who has MGS4 as his favorite lol. If more incomplete games give me 20+ hours of fun then that would be great. Still having alot of fun with this game and it's only because everything feels damn good to do.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Yep. i get you... and i understand where you are coming from.

The thing is... even with this reply. its obvious that YOU are the one that needs to make the adjustments to make the game fun. YOU are the one making the decision to ignore an element of the game to make a handicap. or YOU are the one setting a goal in the game to make it more challenging.

The game never adapts to you in a way that makes you need to change dramatically. Except for those 2 missions where they leave you with nothing and you have to procure everything on site. Those being some really fresh takes on the game.

GZ had more variety too tho... different kind of missions. Invade the camp on your chopper and protect the civilian. Take on 2 targets and eliminate them. Story mission. Destroy emplacements. Because GZ is a smaller place, i think the experience is a lot better.In TPP it just feels diluted.

I don't agree with this at all, there's plenty of deployment missions worth going after. You do those particular ones to suit YOUR needs.



GZ did not have more variety, what are you going on about

 

[akidnamededdy]

It would be funny if the doctor trolled Zero into thinking some random guy was Big Boss, and Zero gave his emotional speech to a nobody.

Hahah dude is all "uhhh I'm just here for a nose job, my wife is waiting in the lobby wtf is going on"

 

[SMZC]

This game does so many things right gameplay wise that it'd be a damn shame to forget it.

Yup. It's an open world done right, and I really can't say anything that hasn't already been said about the amount of freedom and possibilities that this game offers. I hate the plot with a passion, but the gameplay is enough for me to consider MGSV right up there as far as Metal Gear games go, tied up with MGS2 as my personal favorite of the series.

Hell, I will go as far as saying that I very much doubt this generation will put out a game that comes even near to MGSV, gameplay-wise.

 

[JackelZXA]

+1 to this.

I watched yesterday the Yong review, and this his reply video to all the negative feedback he got.

It just reminded me that some people want to praise the games gameplay. I agree in all counts... but by hour 40... the game is in a muck of repetition. Nothing ever changes enough to really change your play style. The game doesn't go out of its way to engage you and sadly... all the cool bits of teh story, and developments happen outside of the game. How are you supposed to keep feeling engage when all of this is at play?

Oh well... this game has superb gameplay... it makes up for all the stuff it doesn't do. Seriously? Most places gave TPP 10s... or close to 10s... this game at the highest is an 8. and that is being generous.

Also.. this game doesn't deliver on all points that Kojima promised.

-Game was supposed to be the missing link
This is hardly the case. The game doesn't even touch on a lot of the ongoings and happenings with other characters at this time. In the timeline... 1980s is full of memorable events.

-Explains how BB turns into a villain
Really? not even when offscreen all the time does TPP deliver this. IF anything... everything that you do in the game is discarded because you are not playing as the real boss.... sure you are a shadow, and speculations dictate that venom is hte one that ends up fighting SS in the first MG game. but i call BS. Motives and feelings of BB were always righteous, we never saw him spiraling down into madness and turn into a real villain.

-A game that deals with very mature and dark themes
I think GZ has a darker theme that is developed... much more than TPP. All important themes might be mentioned but never expanded. I think Kaz burgers have more exposition than the game themes. Everything falls under the repetition of words to make them come true.

Man... it really disappoints me that people just odn't want to see this.... sure.. gameplay it does a lot right.. but the game also does a lot wrong.

Call it a difference in preference, but I had so much fun with the combat, and just rolling up on bases out of missions for hours on end, that I hit my 40 hours before I even found Quiet, and then I was at about 119 by the time I beat the game itself. I got way into doing all the side content and exploring mother base. It just hit every note for me. (Also, the soldiers changing to match your playstyle was a great twist on the gameplay. It force me to evolve and change my play as I went.)

About those points...

- It's the missing link to MG1. We have a clear roadmap of what happened. By changing the events of MG1, BB now has a more consistently gray character from PW to MG2 to MGS4. It also fills in the middle beats that make the turns in Paramedic, Sigint, and Zero's stories make sense. We got information on what their evolution took from comic relief to characters that could believably create the patriots system. If you play 4 after V, 4's story threads, down to Ocelot's self hypnosis, feel like less of an ass-pull now, even though it took a retcon 7 years later to fix the emotionally deadness of the graveyard scene ending. It now MEANS something. Big Boss reclaiming Zero at the end of 4 now has some meaning. (I also enjoy the idea that Zero's final hiding spot was near The Boss's grave)

- The big revelation is that big boss never ends up being an absolute villain in the first place, MG2 ends up just being an extension of the actions he takes in peace walker. Kojjima wrote him as a more complex character in later games than he did in the early ones, so the idea of him reducing to a simplistic 8bit badguy he was in MG1 probably never sat right with Kojima. BB, it turns out, was always a good person, or gray villain at worst. That's the twist! MGS4 benefits from this added consistency in BB's character from that game. Most Metal Gear villains are gray area characters, and it turns out Big Boss was, too. Additionally, you can call BS all you want, but the truth of the story ends up being that there are two big bosses. They're both BB and they both form the legacy. Big Boss becomes a legend, more than just a person. The new MGS game wasn't the story people wanted? Wouldn't be the first time...

- Ethnic Cleansing was a pretty dark theme. Euthanizing your men in the infected platform was pretty dark as well. Venom's PTSD over a Paz he couldn't save is pretty dark. XOF gunning down civilians in a hospital in the prologue was dark as fuck. Child Soldiers is a dark concept, it didn't get completed, but it sounds like that would have not ended well.. The attempted rape sequence in quiet's final mission was pretty dark. There was also tons of body horror between the various deaths and serious moments (paz ripping her guts out), the Devil's House scene itself, and there was just straight up savage torture scenes and a dude getting his teeth broke on quiet's knife. There was plenty in this game. People just gloss over all of that.

Yep. i get you... and i understand where you are coming from.

The thing is... even with this reply. its obvious that YOU are the one that needs to make the adjustments to make the game fun. YOU are the one making the decision to ignore an element of the game to make a handicap. or YOU are the one setting a goal in the game to make it more challenging.

The game never adapts to you in a way that makes you need to change dramatically. Except for those 2 missions where they leave you with nothing and you have to procure everything on site. Those being some really fresh takes on the game.

GZ had more variety too tho... different kind of missions. Invade the camp on your chopper and protect the civilian. Take on 2 targets and eliminate them. Story mission. Destroy emplacements. Because GZ is a smaller place, i think the experience is a lot better.In TPP it just feels diluted.

I just stopped going after enemy sabotage deployment missions because I was more concerned with anything that gave me S rank dudes or Fuel Resources. The enemy sabotage ended up not mattering to me as much. I did the last several missions with fully armored dudes. It was tough, but it was the balance I ended up with because my goal was to build up my mother base and get every strut to 4. It's part of the design. Focusing more on de-leveling enemy units instead of gaining resources is a player choice to make. There is no one way to play the game. I wasn't gimmicking my difficulty, I just had limited deployment units and had a different priority to how I spent my resources, leading to me having stronger enemies, but I probably had more resources than most people did by the end of the game. (Every unit on my main base and my FOB were 3 or 4 by the end)

 

[Arttemis]

All the time that went into that... could;ve gone to better AI, better encounters, better design.

To be honest, all we really need is an actual jungle covering 2/3rds of Africa.


And tweaked rock climbing mechanics. And enemy factions. And Battle Gear, Mission 51, Ocelot, etc, etc.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Yup. It's an open world done right, and I really can't say anything that hasn't already been said about the amount of freedom and possibilities that this game offers. I hate the plot with a passion, but the gameplay is enough for me to consider MGSV right up there as far as Metal Gear games go, tied up with MGS2 as my personal favorite of the series.

Hell, I will go as far as saying that I very much doubt this generation will put out a game that comes even near to MGSV, gameplay-wise.

I dunno, I found the open world to be rather dull and empty, and in Afghanistan's case filled with dumb walls that more or less force you down certain roads anyway.

There are lots of tiny outposts and a small handful of larger "base" type areas. When you're infiltrating those, it's fun, but all the in between areas are just boring. I'm finding myself firmly in the camp that would've preferred ten or fifteen Camp Omega sized sandboxes to explore versus a whole open world.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Nobody will remember this game in 5 years but everybody will remember Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake injecting eacht other with nanomachines to fight, one last time.

The gameplay is good enough for this game to be remembered or many years to come.

You think this game won't be remembered because it doesn't have the over the top cutscenes and story that MGS4 did? That is completely absurd, especially when it comes to video games.

 

[brau]

I don't agree with this at all, there's plenty of deployment missions worth going after. You do those particular ones to suit YOUR needs.



GZ did not have more variety, what are you going on about

Hmm.. i think i phrased the GZ bit wrong. GZ missions feel more unique and full of character.

For example. Your targets are The eye and the finger. This mission spawned a lot of conversation, about the targets background. They both represented Kaz and BB. The Eye for BB and the finger for Kaz, both loosing limbs. This already has more narrative than most missions in TPP alone.

Rescue your intel guy... its the mission chopper shootout, with epic ending battling a tank and then firing rockets at another chopper. Only to reveal Kojima. Man... this game had a lot of charm. What seems like a demo... had more replayablity... i think lots of people spent 40+hrs in this game alone... so how come you get all this backlash from the full 100+ hr game that is tpp? Because of hte quality of the content.

Like i said.. my time with TPP is memorable.. the game lets you do the things instead of them being scripted. That is invaluable. The game feels and controls right. The game has amazing moments of stealth, and its organic switch to gunning. Getting away with improvised moments are worth it. See... i have a good understanding of what the game does and where it does it right. But the game is not complete, it doesn't deliver what it promised, and by the end, it ends up being more repetitive than not because it is repetitive.

I am tempted to grab my guide and do a tally and divide all missions by objectives. just so we can see how many different objectives there are in the game.

A mission that stood out to me in TPP was Quiets Exit. That mission was ridiculous... waves of enemies as you make a stand was epic. Why are there no more missions like this?

As a fan of MGS sure i am dissapointed in teh game. As a game lover, i respect and praise Kojima for redefining stealth and the whole MGS genre with better gameplay and controls.... but i also have to point out that they took easy way out to a game that was way overscoped and had to cut a lot of content to make it out the door.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

^^you are giving entirely too much credit to the narrative of the eye and the finger. Nobody gives a shit about those characters. GZ is a microcosm of TPP. The side missions are about as relevant as tpp's.

The gameplay is good enough for this game to be remembered or many years to come.

You think this game won't be remembered because it doesn't have the over the top cutscenes and story that MGS4 did? That is completely absurd, especially when it comes to video games.

Seriously, even moreso since mgs has been on a decline in terms of story anyways. The game might not be remembered a few years down the line if games are simply thatmuch better in exwcution, presentation etc. TPP has its issues, but not having 90 minute cutscenes with stupid shit happening isn't really the issue. The fact that plot threads are unresolved is a bigger one imo.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Yup. It's an open world done right.

But it isn't open world done right, not at all. There is almost nothing this game benefits from being open world. GZ wasn't open world and it used the same mechanics, the reason camp omega is fondly remembered is because it was one super well designed area that was a sandbox. MGSV just has a SHIT TON of nothing between it's fun sandboxes.

In the 130+ hours of play time I loaded specifically into free roam mode twice.
Once to pick flowers, and another time to get resources before I realized it was easier to just queue up for a story mission to get them.

You really notice it when you have mission areas that are confined to basically one area like the airport. Sure you're given a big sandbox to play with but very little of it actually has toys.

I'd rather the areas have been scaled down and made more interesting.

Also the fact that you can't call in a chopper and have to fly you to another drop zone is ridiculous since you can do it in mother base but you cant in the actual maps.

 

[RK9039]

Such a lust for a jeep ride conversation... WHHHHY aren't you saying anything Snake?

 

[JackelZXA]

I dunno, I found the open world to be rather dull and empty, and in Afghanistan's case filled with dumb walls that more or less force you down certain roads anyway.

There are lots of tiny outposts and a small handful of larger "base" type areas. When you're infiltrating those, it's fun, but all the in between areas are just boring. I'm finding myself firmly in the camp that would've preferred ten or fifteen Camp Omega sized sandboxes to explore versus a whole open world.

If you stick to the roads you run into bases frequently enough. I couldn't help myself from taking dudes out and capturing the bases every time I drove by. It felt like I never ran out of fun things to do. I ended up forcing myself to beat the game faster than I otherwise would have just so I could avoid spoilers, otherwise I probably would have spent as much time ruining bases in Africa as I did in Afghanistan...(Combat was good, enemies were never not fun to fight, always at risk)

The gameplay is good enough for this game to be remembered or many years to come.

You think this game won't be remembered because it doesn't have the over the top cutscenes and story that MGS4 did? That is completely absurd, especially when it comes to video games.

Yeah like....I don't think I can forget either Sahelanthropis encounter or Man on Fire, or the paz...So many other missions and moments were just awesome and cool. The way I played the second chapter lead to it feeling far more dense, storywise, than it probably did for most people. It was still short, but I plan to replay this game several times. I doubt I'll forget this game for a long time. (I'll probably replay it once every couple of years)

 

[Kevin Shields]

Nobody will remember this game in 5 years but everybody will remember Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake injecting eacht other with nanomachines to fight, one last time.

Is this a serious post?

 

[RK9039]

Nobody will remember this game in 5 years but everybody will remember Liquid Ocelot and Old Snake injecting eacht other with nanomachines to fight, one last time.

I don't think anyone will forget Skull Face man's awesome moments though. Other than that... maybe Wolbachia.

 

[Reebot]

Is this a serious post?

Come on guys he obviously doesn't mean no one will literally remember it.

But it's not exactly controversial to say the details and moments will fade away, unlike past games.

 

[Griss]

But it isn't open world done right, not at all. There is almost nothing this game benefits from being open world. GZ wasn't open world and it used the same mechanics, the reason camp omega is fondly remembered is because it was one super well designed area that was a sandbox. MGSV just has a SHIT TON of nothing between it's fun sandboxes.

In the 130+ hours of play time I loaded specifically into free roam mode twice.
Once to pick flowers, and another time to get resources before I realized it was easier to just queue up for a story mission to get them.

You really notice it when you have mission areas that are confined to basically one area like the airport. Sure you're given a big sandbox to play with but very little of it actually has toys.

I'd rather the areas have been scaled down and made more interesting.

Also the fact that you can't call in a chopper and have to fly you to another drop zone is ridiculous since you can do it in mother base but you cant in the actual maps.

Well said to all of that. I never once entered free roam mode. Why would you? There's nothing to do.

Afghanistan is so separated by cliffs that it's effectively a series of levels. Africa's open spaces are completely dull, ugly and underused. I don't know what the point of it all was at all.

Camp Omega was the best part of this entire experience, and GZ is a substantially better game than TPP.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Yep. i get you... and i understand where you are coming from.

The thing is... even with this reply. its obvious that YOU are the one that needs to make the adjustments to make the game fun. YOU are the one making the decision to ignore an element of the game to make a handicap. or YOU are the one setting a goal in the game to make it more challenging.

The game never adapts to you in a way that makes you need to change dramatically. Except for those 2 missions where they leave you with nothing and you have to procure everything on site. Those being some really fresh takes on the game.

GZ had more variety too tho... different kind of missions. Invade the camp on your chopper and protect the civilian. Take on 2 targets and eliminate them. Story mission. Destroy emplacements. Because GZ is a smaller place, i think the experience is a lot better.In TPP it just feels diluted.

Dude every stealth game in existence can be cheesed so easily. Hell, MGS4 was the easiest game ever with a tranq sniper. You have to put your own restrictions in games like these.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Is this a serious post?

I am serious. Gameplay isn't enough to be a memorable game for me.

Edit: To clarify, of course I will remember parts of the games, but I will look at it as a huge disappointment like I do now. WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO will stuck in my mind forever, I'll give you that.

 

[NyMartin90]

Now that I look back at my copy of MG1 it makes sense with Venom being Col. Vermon CaTaffy

Venom=Vermon

 

[brau]

Call it a difference in preference, but I had so much fun with the combat, and just rolling up on bases out of missions for hours on end, that I hit my 40 hours before I even found Quiet, and then I was at about 119 by the time I beat the game itself. I got way into doing all the side content and exploring mother base. It just hit every note for me. (Also, the soldiers changing to match your playstyle was a great twist on the gameplay. It force me to evolve and change my play as I went.)

About those points...

but there is nothing at motherbase.... Paz is there.. and she develops every time you get a photo.. that whole arc is worth it.. but what else is there? Actually.. Mission 43 lacks impact just because there is really no connection with your soldiers. Most people tell me that they had no interest expect to scan them to see what kind of stats this soldiers had before putting them down. =\

- It's the missing link to MG1. We have a clear roadmap of what happened. By changing the events of MG1, BB now has a more consistently gray character from PW to MG2 to MGS4. It also fills in the middle beats that make the turns in Paramedic, Sigint, and Zero's stories make sense. We got information on what their evolution took from comic relief to characters that could believably create the patriots system. If you play 4 after V, 4's story threads, down to Ocelot's self hypnosis, feel like less of an ass-pull now, even though it took a retcon 7 years later to fix the emotionally deadness of the graveyard scene ending. It now MEANS something. Big Boss reclaiming Zero at the end of 4 now has some meaning. (I also enjoy the idea that Zero's final hiding spot was near The Boss's grave)

NO issues here... this is just not what the trailers ever indicated the game was gonna answer or be about. But that is due to expectations.

- The big revelation is that big boss never ends up being an absolute villain in the first place, MG2 ends up just being an extension of the actions he takes in peace walker. Kojjima wrote him as a more complex character in later games than he did in the early ones, so the idea of him reducing to a simplistic 8bit badguy he was in MG1 probably never sat right with Kojima. BB, it turns out, was always a good person, or gray villain at worst. That's the twist! MGS4 benefits from this added consistency in BB's character from that game. Most Metal Gear villains are gray area characters, and it turns out Big Boss was, too. Additionally, you can call BS all you want, but the truth of the story ends up being that there are two big bosses. They're both BB and they both form the legacy. Big Boss becomes a legend, more than just a person. The new MGS game wasn't the story people wanted? Wouldn't be the first time...

I respect this.. and i understand it... but the presentation of this is null because all you ever did was be on the sidelines of the real developments of BB timeline.

- Ethnic Cleansing was a pretty dark theme. Euthanizing your men in the infected platform was pretty dark as well. Venom's PTSD over a Paz he couldn't save is pretty dark. XOF gunning down civilians in a hospital in the prologue was dark as fuck. Child Soldiers is a dark concept, it didn't get completed, but it sounds like that would have not ended well.. The attempted rape sequence in quiet's final mission was pretty dark. There was also tons of body horror between the various deaths and serious moments (paz ripping her guts out), the Devil's House scene itself, and there was just straight up savage torture scenes and a dude getting his teeth broke on quiet's knife. There was plenty in this game. People just gloss over all of that.

This is one mission out of how many? this mission was also really awesome. There are no other missions like this in the game except for the prologue. What other themes are there tho?

I just stopped going after enemy sabotage deployment missions because I was more concerned with anything that gave me S rank dudes or Fuel Resources. The enemy sabotage ended up not mattering to me as much. I did the last several missions with fully armored dudes. It was tough, but it was the balance I ended up with because my goal was to build up my mother base and get every strut to 4. It's part of the design. Focusing more on de-leveling enemy units instead of gaining resources is a player choice to make. There is no one way to play the game. I wasn't gimmicking my difficulty, I just had limited deployment units and had a different priority to how I spent my resources, leading to me having stronger enemies, but I probably had more resources than most people did by the end of the game. (Every unit on my main base and my FOB were 3 or 4 by the end)

See... this is the same thing.. YOU had to be the one to seek this change. The game didn't adapt to it beforehand. I noticed after playing the game, that my heroism was very low... well. not low... it was around 70k-100k for most of the game, and i realized i was using lethal for my primaries and my tranq gun... i would use my tranq gun for the most part, until i had to engage or got caught and i would use my primaries... later i switched to an all non lethal set to raise my heroism.. i think i am not at 150k>.

This is an extreme case of course, and i know that the game doing this behind the scnes is like RE4 awesome adjusted difficulty depending on how well you do a mission. So props to the game for doing something other games don't

 

[Griss]

I am serious. Gameplay isn't enough to be a memorable game for me.

That's going to be a controversial statement but I'm right there with you.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I am serious. Gameplay isn't enough to be a memorable game for me.

For you it's not, but I'll remember MGS4 cause i hated its dumb shit so much, so you got that part right, but not cause of its epic story moments. And knowing the fanbase, this game will be heavily debated 5 yrs down the line just like mgs4 and mgs2. No ones gonna forget it. 5 yrs the discussion will still be gameplay vs story

 

[Spaghetti]

i feel a lot of people in here are forgetting the fact that creative endeavors, especially ones heavily dealing in technological aspects, are rarely a case of going from A to B with completion.

it's very easy to say after the fact that kojima should have planned appropriately for the time and resources allowed to him. he most likely did, and even then probably allowed for bumps in the road. game design is fraught with problems though, and a lot of them you can't really accurately predict. things get cut all the time, and if this gen has taught us anything, delays are common whether they are announced delays or not.

to create a whole new engine for use in a style of game the development team have never done before, is a huge undertaking. that's entirely aside from having to ship simultaneously on five platforms, two of which are using hardware around a decade old. it's easy to snipe at a finished product without knowing the full extent of the work put into it.

does that mean the cut content is forgivable? depends. mission 51 is the only absolute travesty of that issue. other features like returning to camp omega were just fleeting mentions in an interview, and honestly just nothing after that. sometimes things just don't pan out.

and that brings us to konami. japanese business culture is infamously rough. if the reports are to be believed, konami goes the extra mile on that. the pressure and frustrations of making a game like mgsv in that environment must be immense.

does that mean kojima is blameless? no, not really. he should keep his mouth shut when talking about features that aren't 100% going to end up in the finished product, and his ambition can sometimes run away with him. it isn't like he didn't make compromises though. ground zeroes and microtransactions are very big compromises to his original vision. removing mission 51 was the ultimate compromise to get the game out this year. it's a gaping wound in the game. if you think we're upset about it, i can't even imagine how badly kojima feels about it.

regardless, if konami had gotten their way, we'd likely have seen mgsv launching this march and potentially rife with bugs and unpolished content. the end game is what it is and nothing is going to change that, but it's not like kojima went "fuck it, ship the game" without a care. konami pulls the trigger on the release date, and if kojima hadn't wrangled an extra six months we could have gotten a worse game for it.

so yeah. i guess i'll take kojima's side on this. he's not the epitome of responsible business, but he's a drop in the ocean compared to konami's anti-employee practices and draconian surveillance culture.

i'd rather stick with the over ambitious and flawed perfectionist, than a company that is anti-employee, and anti-consumer (see FOB microtransactions, PES on PC, cancelling silent hills, etc).

 

[brau]

To be honest, all we really need is an actual jungle covering 2/3rds of Africa.


And tweaked rock climbing mechanics. And enemy factions. And Battle Gear, Mission 51, Ocelot, etc, etc.

the road leading to the mansion where they keep Code Talker was jungly... very deceiving when they showed this to represent africa.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

For you it's not, but I'll remember MGS4 cause i hated its dumb shit so much, so you got that part right, but not cause of its epic story moments. And knowing the fanbase, this game will be heavily debated 5 yrs down the line just like mgs4 and mgs2. No ones gonna forget it. 5 yrs the discussion will still be gameplay vs story

Agreed

And yeah, mgs4 is easy as shit to cheese. But hey let's knock one of the aspects that makes mgsv any good at all, gameplay.

 

[funkystudent]

Saw Konami finally put a recruitment page up for "NEW METAL GEAR".

Curious how that will turn out but I gotta wonder who is actually applying after all the stories about working conditions and Konamis uncertain gaming future.


But I figure if Konami LA isnt shut down by next E3 then a new Metal Gear has a good possibility of actually happening.

 

[Griss]

I wonder if Kojima is aware of the reaction to the story and how he feels about it.

Not the reaction to the twist, per se, more the reaction that everything was so poorly executed.

 

[Reebot]

the road leading to the mansion where they keep Code Talker was jungly... very deceiving when they showed this to represent africa.

With a few exceptions the Afghanistan and Africa locations are almost completely interchangeable.

 

[brau]

I wonder if Kojima is aware of the reaction to the story and how he feels about it.

Not the reaction to the twist, per se, more the reaction that everything was so poorly executed.

He is too busy looking at cosplayers of Quiet.

 

[Jangowuzhere]

Come on guys he obviously doesn't mean no one will literally remember it.

But it's not exactly controversial to say the details and moments will fade away, unlike past games.

People will create their own moments in MGS5. It won't be remembered as a movie, people will look back on it as a dynamic open world game experience.

I would be a fool to forget the time I took over an enemy base by having Quiet ricochet my grenades into enemies. It's unlikely for me to forget the time I rode into an compound with D-Walker and destroyed everything in sight with Rebel Yell blasting in the background.

People don't need story and cinematic moments for a game to be memorable, although, MGS5 has plenty of those as well.

 

[brau]

People will create their own moments in MGS5. It won't be remembered as a movie, people will look back on it as a dynamic open world game experience.

I would be a fool to forget the time I took over an enemy base by having Quiet ricochet my grenades into enemies. It's unlikely for me to forget the time I rode into an compound with D-Walker and destroyed everything in sight with Rebel Yell blasting in the background.

People don't need story and cinematic moments for a game to be memorable, although, MGS5 has plenty of those as well.

Yea... i think i praise the game for making moments like this something of your own doing. Most cool moments really do happen to you during the game. Its really awesome.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Well said to all of that. I never once entered free roam mode. Why would you? There's nothing to do.

Afghanistan is so separated by cliffs that it's effectively a series of levels. Africa's open spaces are completely dull, ugly and underused. I don't know what the point of it all was at all.

Camp Omega was the best part of this entire experience, and GZ is a substantially better game than TPP.

Edit: mission 12 and 13 are on par with ground zeroes as well

GZ is one main mission. And I would probably take mission 6 and mission 28 over it easily. To say its a better game is weird since it clearly was a part of phantom pain that got cut because they wanted quick money.

 

[brau]

GZ is one main mission. And I would probably take mission 6 and mission 28 over it easily. To say its a better game is weird since it clearly was a part of phantom pain that got cut because they wanted quick money.

I guess it just makes for a more consistent experience.

When i think about it, GZ + the prologue, set the bar quite high for TPP in terms of story, themes and narrative. One that is only reached just a few other times in a handful of missions. Most memorably, mission 43.

At least that is how i see it. The bar is set way high... and its not reached again with that much emphasis.

 

[DamonForever]

For me, I don't care much how the story went. It was disappointing, for sure, but that is how Kojima went with it, and I'm not wholly invested in the overarching story, so I don't really care. If he wants to cheapen BB's history, more power to him. The game itself doesn't shine where every character is bland save maybe Skull Face.

The gameplay was up and down for me. Early on, I felt like I was being punished for playing stealthy (suppressor breaking quick), so that was annoying. Then R&D picked up and got better. Then missions just kept being repetitive. It doesn't help that the game limits what weapons you can bring along. I'd love to carry the water gun around more, but I'd have to put away the tranq gun. Given that I didn't have a silenced stun AR, I couldn't be as stealthy without it.

Stuff also gets expensive. I'd love to bring a bunch of items with me, but it cost GMP and I'm stingy. Base infiltration felt lacking compared to Camp Omega. Are there even surveillance cameras in this game? I don't think I came across any.

It would've been more bearable with an engaging story. As it is, the story makes the repetitiveness even more pronounced. I was most looking forward to how/why or the gradual process to BB's decent into 'evil'. As it is, it looks like VS just got pissed he was tricked.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I guess it just makes for a more consistent experience.

When i think about it, GZ + the prologue, set the bar quite high for TPP in terms of story, themes and narrative. One that is only reached just a few other times in a handful of missions. Most memorably, mission 43.

At least that is how i see it. The bar is set way high... and its not reached again with that much emphasis.

I agree with you but come on. It's much easier to make a consistent 2 hour game then a 40 hour game. As a narrative experience I'll take GZ but what game I'm I gonna take when my house is burning down? Phantom Pain for damn sure.

 

[Reebot]

People will create their own moments in MGS5. It won't be remembered as a movie, people will look back on it as a dynamic open world game experience.

I would be a fool to forget the time I took over an enemy base by having Quiet ricochet my grenades into enemies. It's unlikely for me to forget the time I rode into an compound with D-Walker and destroyed everything in sight with Rebel Yell blasting in the background.

People don't need story and cinematic moments for a game to be memorable, although, MGS5 has plenty of those as well.

Ok, but so what? No one is disputing that. Any competent game will give you gameplay highs. It's about those unique moments that stick with you, not just because they're fun in that instant.

 

[JackelZXA]

but there is nothing at motherbase.... Paz is there.. and she develops every time you get a photo.. that whole arc is worth it.. but what else is there? Actually.. Mission 43 lacks impact just because there is really no connection with your soldiers. Most people tell me that they had no interest expect to scan them to see what kind of stats this soldiers had before putting them down. =\

If you interrogate soldiers they'll mark your map where they hid a diamond, every time you upgrade mother base more diamonds become available to hunt, they also respawn up to a certain point (It's not an infinity hunting game) Interrogating my dudes, marking the diamonds on my map, then figuring out how to get them was a fun diversion to the shooty drivey funtimes in the other 2 maps. It gave me something to do between missions that brought in GMP. Hunting for diamonds, felt like Knuckles in Sonic Adventure or something. It created these cool puzzle game style scenarios, like tomb raider or something but on mother base.

(Also, if you level up your FOB, and you're like me and don't have PS Plus, you can select TRAINING from the fob menu to fight your own dudes without losing resources, or getting proper invaded. It's a fun diversion and I like not having to deal with asshole players in this almost-third map style play)

NO issues here... this is just not what the trailers ever indicated the game was gonna answer or be about. But that is due to expectations.


I respect this.. and i understand it... but the presentation of this is null because all you ever did was be on the sidelines of the real developments of BB timeline.



This is one mission out of how many? this mission was also really awesome. There are no other missions like this in the game except for the prologue. What other themes are there tho?

I listed several themes throughout the game. Why did you suddenly jump to one mission in your reply? I'll list them all out for readability, these fill out through the whole game, not just one mission:

• Ethnic Cleansing
• Euthanizing your men in the infected platform
• Venom's PTSD over a Paz he couldn't save
• XOF gunning down civilians in a hospital
• Child Soldiers, it didn't get completed, but it sounds like that would have not ended well
• The attempted rape sequence in quiet's final mission
• Tons of body horror between the various deaths and serious moments
• Paz ripping her guts out
• The Devil's House scene
• Torture scenes
• A dude getting his teeth broke on quiet's knife
• Gonna add: Everything to do with Huey's....entire deal (and Strangelove...)
• The manner of cold brutality with which Skullface's death is carried out (OUCH)

See... this is the same thing.. YOU had to be the one to seek this change. The game didn't adapt to it beforehand. I noticed after playing the game, that my heroism was very low... well. not low... it was around 70k-100k for most of the game, and i realized i was using lethal for my primaries and my tranq gun... i would use my tranq gun for the most part, until i had to engage or got caught and i would use my primaries... later i switched to an all non lethal set to raise my heroism.. i think i am not at 150k>.

This is an extreme case of course, and i know that the game doing this behind the scnes is like RE4 awesome adjusted difficulty depending on how well you do a mission. So props to the game for doing something other games don't

I'm not sure I get what you mean. I didn't make the choice to make the game harder, it just naturally happened because of my playstyle. I started playing real lethal halfway through my playthrough because I started to enjoy the better guns I was getting. Because of this, even when I did sabotage missions I'd just be undoing those changes within a few hours, so it dropped as a priority for me. I didn't play nonlethal because I enjoyed the combat. I went for fuel resources because base leveling meant getting better stuff and I was worried level 4 base would be required for endgame content (I think there was something tied to base level in PW in chapter 5) and, because I was playing lethally in the second half of the game, I ended up without a lot of high level dudes, so the dude recruitment was another priority.

Honestly I feel like you going for the sabotage missions as important feels like a paranoid way to play the game, it's also wasteful because you should be going for missions that give out good resources and GMP. That's way more important in the long run.

the road leading to the mansion where they keep Code Talker was jungly... very deceiving when they showed this to represent africa.

It would only be deceiving if they said Africa would be full of lush jungles or something. Showing one really awesome area isn't deceiving unless you're reading too much into it, mate.

With a few exceptions the Afghanistan and Africa locations are almost completely interchangeable.

Not at all. Afghanistan was very canyon-y and full of mesas. Africa was much more open, savannah, swamps, full of trees all over....the feel of the land was entirely different. I completely disagree with your statement here. I found both areas completely memorable and after a while I was finding my way around on instinct, without even needing the map, because I just grew to know my way around from the key points of the map in relation to eachother.

 

[LQX]

Question: Was it suppose to be obvious it was Quite in the prologue attempting to do the assassination? I had no clue until replaying that mission at the end. It was a major revelation for me.

 

[eso76]

Oh I just remembered Huey had finished developing the battle gear and I was told to deploy it (in dispatch missions ?).

Uhh...how do I do that and what's the point anyway ?

 

[Edzi]

Question: Was it suppose to be obvious it was Quite in the prologue attempting to do the assassination? I had no clue until replaying that mission at the end. It was a major revelation for me.

Yeah, they didn't try to hide her face or anything.

 

[Griss]

I have to say the best part of the whole game was the subsistence missions. Those were wonderfully challenging and fun.

I've now beat all the side ops and main missions and sitting at about 78% with over 130 hours in so far. I don't know if I feel like going for the 100%. I'm pretty burned out after playing the side ops. They get incredibly repetitive. Oh we're having another eliminate the tank mission in the exact same spot again, only this time it's the armored vehicles instead of tanks. I don't think I can handle going back through every mission to do useless little side tasks.

This is because, imo, the fulton damn near ruins the core gameplay.

Encounters with tanks and armor should be thrilling, but the fulton reduces them to 'crates i have to sneak behind'. Leaving a bunch of guards asleep as you make your way through a base should be a worrying thing, as they can be found or wake up. Not if I suck them through a wormhole! This, in particular, means there's little reason to play non-stealth, no advantage to it. If you tranq and extract, the guy is as good as 'dead'. Better, even, as the body's completely gone.

What's worse is that it turns your goal from being infiltrating a place to clearing it out. Snake goes from being a secret-agent-type to being Luigi with his vacuum. Hoover it all up, Snake! He truly is a phantom like Skullface, that guy's work was cleanup too.

All of this would be a little more bearable if Mother Base was any good and your efforts at hoovering soldiers and vehicles meant anything. But in the end, no. It's just a numbers game (hoover up enough guys, watch your level go up, game takes care of sorting them) with a shitty deployment mode stolen from AC: Black Flack hacked on to it, and nothing interesting on Mother Base on the ground.

What it should have been:
-Not taking the fulton means you get one more weapon. Risk / reward.
-Each platform on Mother Base holds only 10-20 guys. Each is important.
-You get 2-4 fultons at a time rather than fucking 48. You actually have to save your fultons for the very best recruits, and searching them out actually becomes fun. Getting 2/4 guys per mission is enough to fill your base across the main story due to the reduced personnel limits.
-You can't fulton tanks. Destroying a tank makes it available for development at Mother Base to make up for this.

This would have, in my opinion, solved a huge amount of my problems with the base gameplay. I remember the first time the fulton was shown, I was pretty upset. GZ worked great without it; I didn't like Peace Walker; I forsaw some of these gameplay issues. When I finally started playing TPP I didn't mind it at all. But by the time you get to the second half of the game the flaws are obvious.

And to add to that, I just find the idea of 'magicking' soldiers away on a special balloon to be really, really stupid. MGS is full of stupid stuff, stuff I like. But that stuff usually stays away from the core gameplay loop. Here it's a key part of it.

 

[Arttemis]

Oh I just remembered Huey had finished developing the battle gear and I was told to deploy it (in dispatch missions ?).

Uhh...how do I do that and what's the point anyway ?

You should probably ask this in the OT and not in the SPOILERS thread, but go to Combat Deployment under the Missions tab in your iDroid. There will be a new yellow-dot deployment mission to send your men on, with some long timer associated with it, and a low chance of success. There are 4 or 5 of these missions that pop up one after the other, and the rewards get better and better as you go on.

 

[brau]

Question: Was it suppose to be obvious it was Quite in the prologue attempting to do the assassination? I had no clue until replaying that mission at the end. It was a major revelation for me.

I think so. Specially since they mentioned several times that she wanted revenge for that.

This is because, imo, the fulton damn near ruins the core gameplay.

Encounters with tanks and armor should be thrilling, but the fulton reduces them to 'crates i have to sneak behind'. Leaving a bunch of guards asleep as you make your way through a base should be a worrying thing, as they can be found or wake up. Not if I suck them through a wormhole! This, in particular, means there's little reason to play non-stealth, no advantage to it. If you tranq and extract, the guy is as good as 'dead'. Better, even, as the body's completely gone.

What's worse is that it turns your goal from being infiltrating a place to clearing it out. Snake goes from being a secret-agent-type to being Luigi with his vacuum. Hoover it all up, Snake! He truly is a phantom like Skullface, that guy's work was cleanup too.

All of this would be a little more bearable if Mother Base was any good and your efforts at hoovering soldiers and vehicles meant anything. But in the end, no. It's just a numbers game (hoover up enough guys, watch your level go up, game takes care of sorting them) with a shitty deployment mode stolen from AC: Black Flack hacked on to it, and nothing interesting on Mother Base on the ground.

What it should have been:
-Not taking the fulton means you get one more weapon. Risk / reward.
-Each platform on Mother Base holds only 10-20 guys. Each is important.
-You get 2-4 fultons at a time rather than fucking 48. You actually have to save your fultons for the very best recruits, and searching them out actually becomes fun. Getting 2/4 guys per mission is enough to fill your base across the main story due to the reduced personnel limits.
-You can't fulton tanks. Destroying a tank makes it available for development at Mother Base to make up for this.

This would have, in my opinion, solved a huge amount of my problems with the base gameplay. I remember the first time the fulton was shown, I was pretty upset. GZ worked great without it; I didn't like Peace Walker; I forsaw some of these gameplay issues. When I finally started playing TPP I didn't mind it at all. But by the time you get to the second half of the game the flaws are obvious.

And to add to that, I just find the idea of 'magicking' soldiers away on a special balloon to be really, really stupid. MGS is full of stupid stuff, stuff I like. But that stuff usually stays away from the core gameplay loop. Here it's a key part of it.

i like this.

This ties well to the idea of the missions you ha ve nothing on you. They were really exciting.

 

[eso76]

You should probably ask this in the OT and not in the SPOILERS thread, but go to Combat Deployment under the Missions tab in your iDroid. There will be a new yellow-dot deployment mission to send your men on, with some long timer associated with it, and a low chance of success. There are 4 or 5 of these missions that pop up one after the other, and the rewards get better and better as you go on.

Yeah, no I know that. Did a bunch of those but can the battle gear be deployed in any of those ?

 

[WrenchNinja]

- The big revelation is that big boss never ends up being an absolute villain in the first place, MG2 ends up just being an extension of the actions he takes in peace walker. Kojjima wrote him as a more complex character in later games than he did in the early ones, so the idea of him reducing to a simplistic 8bit badguy he was in MG1 probably never sat right with Kojima. BB, it turns out, was always a good person, or gray villain at worst. That's the twist! MGS4 benefits from this added consistency in BB's character from that game. Most Metal Gear villains are gray area characters, and it turns out Big Boss was, too. Additionally, you can call BS all you want, but the truth of the story ends up being that there are two big bosses. They're both BB and they both form the legacy. Big Boss becomes a legend, more than just a person. The new MGS game wasn't the story people wanted? Wouldn't be the first time...

Except for the part where he does become an absolute villain. Like you'd have to be absolutely delusional to think someone who wants to set the world into eternal warfare, recruits child soldiers to perpetuate that warfare, kidnaps scientists against their will, builds giant death robots and threatens the world with nukes to somehow be a good person or even a gray villain.

Like that is some crazy ass rationalisation.