PedroPanache
Member
I've said it before, but it's worth saying again, it's a crying shame that the plot point of the shrapnel causing hallucinations went nowhere. Just another idea that doesn't go anywhere.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Even considering only the outposts and the areas that you are limited to per mission, that's still technically open world gameplay. Maybe sandbox would be more appropriate, I guess, but however we call it, it can't be denied that MGSV has achieved the freedom of choice that virtually no other open world game has done at this point in time, and it's all wrapped up with some truly fantastic gameplay and level design that is up there among the very best in the industry, whether we're talking about open world or more linear games.
It doesn't really matter if a lot of areas of the "open world" are empty. Because, yes, they are indeed empty, but it doesn't detract from the game's highlights, especially when you take into consideration that you are hardly ever forced to explore or navigate through these areas. If you don't like them you don't have to spend much time at all in them, plain and simple.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I assumed the character creator at the beginning was Kojima having a laugh about how open world games don't have characters, they have player avatars. The doctor even says "It's a big open world out there" right before you change your looks.
Barry Burton
Member
REVENGE!
Graphics Horse
Member
Cyborg Volgin.
Shinkawa said he was originally part of KojiPro's Rising.
Thanks, never seen that before.
Good point.
The black rocks that come out of Metal Gear when it does that attack look very similar to his horn. A lot of us where thinking this was a hallucination sequence, where his horn like rocks where trying to kill him.
EDIT: these!
EmCeeGramr
Member
"those who don't exist"
-people with parasite super powers
-the third plot device
-a completely real fire man who has a weakness to water-type pokemon
-people with parasite super powers
-the third plot device
-a completely real fire man who has a weakness to water-type pokemon
water is super effective!~
Im also bitter that Volgin showed up like that. I mean, they had Skullface for a deep bad guy that at the end felt plain and two dimensional. They could have used the russian guy as the wreckless crazy searching for revenge, not just as a puppet on fire. Volgin was a great enemy in MGS3 and i was super excited to see his return. But man, mot like this.
So far it's up there for me, it's in my top 3 of the year if not number 1.
Cyborg Volgin.
Shinkawa said he was originally part of KojiPro's Rising.
Should have kept him for a Rising title.
All characters are wasted on The Phantom Pain.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Kojima evolves his characters every time he retcons them.
Meeting paz was an hallucination though.
It worked out damn well, too. It's a shame we only got one little side-op out of Mother Base and hallucinatory effects in the entire game. I want to know how many more were cut.
PedroPanache
Member
With that shrapnel, you've got a way of bringing back old characters that persecute and haunt Big Boss into madness. The Cobras, The Boss etc. all his deeds and his guilt send him into madness and we get the final transition from hero to villain. A man that wants to see the world on fire. What we get instead is such a bizarre misfire. I think the integrity of the story was destroyed to pursue a twist that doesn't fit into the story at all. You undercut any kind of pathos that interactions between Big Boss and Eli have when you realise it's not Big Boss. It retroactively breaks chunks of the story. I actually like the twist in how it plays into MG1 and reshapes certain events, but in MGSV the twist doesn't serve the story at all and doesn't reshape it after the fact. You could replay MGSV and the story beats wouldn't be re-contextualised in any significant way whatsoever.
Volgin remins where at the same hospital. When Mantis goes there under skullface, Volgins lust for revenge wakes him up through mantis powers. And Volgin wants to kill BB. Cuz he is upset.
Mantis.. they discover he has really interesting kinetic abilities and that he can use the strong bad thoughts of people and channel them. Hence him being controlled by Volgin.
Someone call out my BS if this is not true.
i was seriously waiting to see a zombi version of the boss haunting him. That would've been amazing.
and yes... his spiral into madness, and his guilt shaping him into the villain he is supposed to be is more interesting than making BB a non transcending character.
Like other people say.. oh.. but BB is more human now.. all characters in MGS are not black and white.. they are more real. I call bullshit. That doesn't make for good writing.
Pretty much where I am at on this whole thing
Yeah I thought the same. I wonder how much of that stuff is supposed to be an intentional red herring. There are many subtle hints about hallucinations that don't go anywhere. Like, moments before Volgin shows up on his burning pegasus, Venom glimpses a burning statue of a horse in the hospital courtyard.
But nah, that was a totally legit flying, burning horse. Powered by dat lust
Devilinthiscity
Member
So I just finished the game and got the real ending. Kind of saw it coming and overall, I was pretty disappointed.
What does the other side of the tape say before he punches the mirror?
What does the other side of the tape say before he punches the mirror?
ShockingAlberto
Member
Mantis is just a cipher (get it?) that responds to the strongest emotions around him. First was Venom's lust for revenge, then Volgin's, then he took Volgin's meat suit with him when Skullface took over.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Mantis attaches himself to anyone feeling strong sensation of thirst for revenge. He will switch from helpin Volgin to Snake to Skull Face etc. They explain it in a tape.
I don't think Kojima ever wanted to give his team the chance to succeed.
Kojima asked his team to make a Metal Gear Solid game about The Boss, and they came up with Rising instead, which is understandable (seeing as even Kojima didn't go with WW2 MGS5).
They try to figure out how to make a game within a new genre to them and show footage that looked promising, but Kojima got Platinum Games on-board as early 2011, so the Metal Gear Solid Rising only ever got two years in development under KojiPro, whereas Kojima takes 5 years going from Peace Walker to MGS5.
He cancels their project, which I'm sure crushed the teams spirit of independence from Kojima. A good game came out of it but it seems like the odds were stacked against his team.
Mexican Sting
Member
These are my thoughts exactly. People saying this will age as well as MGS2 are missing what made that game special.
Sorry, but what history? If this is a case of project mismanagement, I'm pretty sure it would be a first for Kojima.
Devilinthiscity
Member
Ah okay. So is it the real big boss or the fake big boss that goes full evil then? I'm taking it all in after just finishing the game, but Venom snake kind of looked pissed. I'm assuming the fake one is the one that dies when Solid kills him? That would be the biggest fucking retcon ever.
are you being sarcastic?
MGS4 documentary show the nightmare it was to work on the project and WITH kojima.
if you pay attention.. between the hit of the mirror... a time lapse has happened. The diamond dog logo that is reflected turns into outer heaven. It goes from Venom to Big Boss.
Venom through the mirror going back to the myst, is just a representation that he understands BB, and will live as his phantom to protect him. Going back to the shadows which is a representation of going back to the game perhaps.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
The man was Vice President so he already has more power than any other developer.
I dont fault Konami for being a business, I do fault them for releasing an unfinished product.
Kojima has always improved upon his gameplay with this being his most mainstream title yet. Konami has stated that their game division doesn't make a dent in profits compared to everything else they are in. Kojima wasn't spending money on boats and hoes, he was spending money (a lot of it), but he was investing in the future.
He created his own engine that was beginning to reap the rewards for other internal developers (PES, Silent Hills, etc..) so more games would look better and be easier to make, saving money on those projects. He released a prologue to try and help some of the cost, so it wasn't like he didn't try to earn money during development. The problem is Konami doesn't care about console gaming regardless of what makes money. Even if Ground Zeroes didn't meet sales expectations anyone could see that TPP was not the same typee of product and had potential to surpass sales of the previous titles.
As a company you have to make decisions that will keep you in business and I don't blame them for that. I'm disappointed they no longer care about the legacy and fans they've created in search of more easier already profitable pastures. MGSV was a bet, but having already been winners in other areas, at least MGSV wouldn't be a total bad bet considering the console future that Kojima was investing in. The failure of MGSV wouldn't have put them out of business. The success when compared to everything else wouldn't have made an impact either, which is why they had no problem releasing an unfinished product.
We talk about business decisions but it makes more sense to keep the things you've invested money in than to throw talent, legacy titles, a next gen shareable engine, dedicated fans, and any remaining goodwill away. It makes your attentions seem greedy when you are already making a killer profit in other avenues but the console gaming side (even when it makes a profit) doesn't make enough.
At work can't watch....
Is the the one where he is arguing with the programmer?
If so that is director pushing his team to become better than their western counterparts. You can't sit around doing the same thing whilee the west continues to push the boundaries of graphics and gameplay.
We all know his team couldn't make Rising on their own.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Barry Burton
Member
A few days after finishing the story, I still can't help but think about what a shame that twist ending was. It would have been one thing if it came completely out of left-field, but I was fully prepared for this twist since the early trailers for the game. Kojima/Konami planted the seeds for this twist themselves in the game's promotion.
It was on my mind throughout most of the game in that, while I didn't have the ending spoiled for me, whenever anything happened involving Snake I considered what implications it would have if Venom wasn't actually Big Boss. It was never something that I forgot about while I was playing. All I knew was that MGSV had a "crazy ending", and I was constantly hoping that it wasn't the "Boss switch" that was practically telegraphed in the Garbage song trailer.
So when things happen like the A.I. core and Huey not recognizing him immediately, Volgin not recognizing him, the DNA test not matching Eli's, etc. -- these scenes made it obvious that Venom was not Big Boss.
And it'd be one thing if everything was executed well, but man, the first and last story missions of this game couldn't feel anymore detached from the middle, what, 95% of the game? It doesn't feel earned based on the lead-up to it over the course of the game, and it's placement only seems to be there to shock (which it doesn't, because it was the most predictable "twist ending" possible).
I still really like MGSV and the twist doesn't ruin everything for me, but it does put a damper on it. It's less infuriating and more disappointing that they threw out a potentially interesting story for a unnecessary twist. It's more of a missed opportunity than anything else, and knowing that it's probably this studio's final Metal Gear game undeniably caused the ending to feel more empty than it probably would have otherwise.
It was on my mind throughout most of the game in that, while I didn't have the ending spoiled for me, whenever anything happened involving Snake I considered what implications it would have if Venom wasn't actually Big Boss. It was never something that I forgot about while I was playing. All I knew was that MGSV had a "crazy ending", and I was constantly hoping that it wasn't the "Boss switch" that was practically telegraphed in the Garbage song trailer.
So when things happen like the A.I. core and Huey not recognizing him immediately, Volgin not recognizing him, the DNA test not matching Eli's, etc. -- these scenes made it obvious that Venom was not Big Boss.
And it'd be one thing if everything was executed well, but man, the first and last story missions of this game couldn't feel anymore detached from the middle, what, 95% of the game? It doesn't feel earned based on the lead-up to it over the course of the game, and it's placement only seems to be there to shock (which it doesn't, because it was the most predictable "twist ending" possible).
I still really like MGSV and the twist doesn't ruin everything for me, but it does put a damper on it. It's less infuriating and more disappointing that they threw out a potentially interesting story for a unnecessary twist. It's more of a missed opportunity than anything else, and knowing that it's probably this studio's final Metal Gear game undeniably caused the ending to feel more empty than it probably would have otherwise.
ZeroMaverick
Member
KOMANI
KOMANI
Yea... I platinumed the game. That's why I have an opinion on it.
Did you play the game?
ShockingAlberto
Member
It is really easy to be promising when the footage was pretty much all lies.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
darkwing-buck
Member
Nice avatar :3
Graphics Horse
Member
And his hornier appearences.
I think an open world needs at least one of two things.
1. Fun navigation
2. A dense world
And The Phantom Pain has neither.
If you don't have either of those then your world is basically tantamount to a really badly designed level selection menu.
It's not terrible, but at no point did I travel from A to B thinking "This is fun", or "Look at all the stuff I can do". Most of the world is part of the vast, boring expanse.
1. Fun navigation
2. A dense world
And The Phantom Pain has neither.
If you don't have either of those then your world is basically tantamount to a really badly designed level selection menu.
It's not terrible, but at no point did I travel from A to B thinking "This is fun", or "Look at all the stuff I can do". Most of the world is part of the vast, boring expanse.
I'm still watching, but..
Not really seeing any examples of mismanagement so far. In fact, this is only making me appreciate even more the work Kojima and the whole team put into their games.
KOMANI
KOMANI
There's no reason to explore but to grind. Everyone is a soldier or prisoner. It's just tedious.
I want to play the game, which is a testament to the gameplay, but I struggle to find things to do.
Sure. The desire to push the team to go beyond the call of duty is always a plus in any team. But the fact is that they decide to re write a whole section like 6 months before release. Redoing all kind of work that had already been done. How much of an impact did this scene have? did it really needed to be redone? no. this is the same as MGSV. Decisions were made to pursue things that did not enhance or impact the game. I've already mentioned FOB, the zoo, Motherbase as a whole, and like 50% of the empty terrain were you do nothing.
All of this things involve scope.. and its one of the first things you can see if they work when you prototype your game.
This is bad management. If things are not ready to move forward, then it doesn't until things are ironed out. Not the other way around. This is an easy way to blow budgets through the roof and wear your team down.
And yet this "unfinished product" still beats the living crap out of most games that come out nowadays in terms of game design.
I'm not sure what kind of open world games you have in mind exactly when making that last statement, because anything even remotely open-worldish that I've played in recent years is precisely like you're saying right there. MGSV is the one game that I can name which actually goes against the tide, teaching every other developer out there how to give freedom to the player in terms of the actual gameplay, as opposed to freedom in choosing which quest to do next.
As for MGSV not having fun navigation, I find riding D-Horse to be quite pleasant, with its amazing animations and controls. To mention a recent open world game that also features a similar way of traversal, riding a horse in The Witcher 3 is both a chore (control-wise), and ugly to look at.
PedroPanache
Member
Thinking back I didn't even play this game as an open world. I did the main missions and get the hell out of there. I explored a little bit at the start, but I definitely got a sense of diminishing returns, so opted out of exploring pretty quickly. Camp Omega proves that the best way to go with the gameplay engine was smaller, more refined and content rich maps rather than large areas populated with occasional cut and paste outposts to pad them out.
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