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[ShockingAlberto]

. And we are also only getting one side to the story. Who's to say that some part of that 80 million wasn't going to Silent Hills.

I don't know that you can attack him for speculating on events and then just sort of wholesale make things up under the guise of speculation.

 

[Opto]

So my ideal post-credits conversation would have taken place 20 years later in Alaska, with Miller walking into his cabin and Liquid confronting him. Liquid would ask if he knew about Venom, and if he did, why he let Big Boss be killed. Miller would explain that he has spent his life being controlled by someone's orders and was free. Liquid says he will never be free as long as he remains inferior to David and Big Boss. Miller mocks him for not being able to do what Solid Snake did, and for being the recessive twin. Liquid then snaps and kills him, then radios Ocelot to say it's done.

"I don't remember much from those days. It was Miller that dislocated my arm, right?"
"...Yes."

 

[Bubbavelli]

So Skullface worked with or close to BB during MGS 3 if im not misremembering? They never actually go in to who he was right?

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

I don't know that you can attack him for speculating on events and then just sort of wholesale make things up under the guise of speculation.

Was I attacking him?

Didn't mean too. Just playing Devils Advocate

Konami working conditions was leaked, and we know that not all was great being an employee. I'm not saying Konami's gripes with Kojima weren't true, but at the same time it is only one side to the story from a company who treats their staff poorly once they have no more use for them

 

[Graphics Horse]

So Skullface worked with or close to BB during MGS 3 if im not misremembering? They never actually go in to who he was right?

He was the guy placing toy frogs everywhere.

 

[brau]

The engine seems great, that again is not the point. So make the engine...and then properly scope the rest of development so the game can be finished when it needs to be, for what it needs to be.

Kojima failed as a project manager, period.

+1

i mentioned this yesterday.

The fact they were doing a new engine and then a major scope really raised some red flags that should've had some questions to answer before development.

 

[Bubbavelli]

He was the guy placing toy frogs everywhere.

I dont think I would put that past Kojima

 

[Opto]

You can't retaliate against a player that never set off an alert. Give yourself several platforms and max everything in the basic and advanced option lists. Those numbers are a pretty good deterrent from someone wanting to infiltrate you.

Three platforms deep with everything maxed out is really hard to get through.
Especially if somehow your staff has metal face masks

 

[Alienous]

I honestly think chapter 1 is filled with filler missions, just like GZ had those extra ops.
I'd like a shorter game but with a good chunk of story missions (and with story missions I intend missions actually bringing usefull info to the player with cutscenes, like Hellbound was, in example, or Skullface etc) instead of a 100 hours product in which you visit the same outpost 100 times in order to extract a prisoner, find a plan, fultoning a special soldiers.
Even excluding side-ops, a lot of main ops are here just to fill the game. To me, it was clear there should be other location in the game, not only two. But they couldn't achieve it and, in order to create new content, they created those missions because honestly they are very easy to do, you just need to change some variables and that's it (this, of course, excluding intro mission dialogues etc, you actually need to recorder those, but by a gameplay point of view, those missions are very easy to create).

This excluding all side-ops, that also recycled dialogues and they only change the placement of some items (like spawn X tanks in 32.5Y and 89.1x).

Actually if they used a script, they can randomly generate side-ops easily, making an infinite amount of them.

If extra ops were fun and good in GZ, because really we bought a demo, here, but extra ops provided additional hours of gameplay and they were different enough to be worthy to play, in TPP way too many main ops are just "Extract this dude, blow up that thing."

I had (still having) a lot of fun with the game, even if it's literally filled with issue and I honestly don't understand the praise from the press (and this by being a hardcore MGS fan, this is my favourite franchise), but it's clear the game suffered a lot of issue and the final product feels incomplete and its length artificially increased.

I agree with you.

Most of the Main Ops are like Ground Zeroes Side Ops, and most of the Side Ops in The Phantom Pain are like randomly generated missions.

I think some of the missions deserve a bit more credit than you're giving them; some involve scripting various NPCs to do things at certain times and behave in certain ways (a good example of this is Mission 21(?), the one with the arms dealer and helicopter.

But yeah, I'm mostly in agreement with you. Robin Atkin Downes had a lot of different sessions recording lines, and I imagine that was for the Kaz intro and outro dialogue for all of the missions that aren't really story relevant.

 

[Xpliskin]

You could say,

Project Ogre lived up to its name.

Ha, haha, ....

....

 

[Wesker28]

You can't retaliate against a player that never set off an alert. Give yourself several platforms and max everything in the basic and advanced option lists. Those numbers are a pretty good deterrent from someone wanting to infiltrate you.

Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Kazuhira]

just saw this on twitter no idea if legit but just showing you all

Goddammit konami,son of a b**ch!

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

Goddammit konami,son of a b**ch!

if we saw a list of every game that has cut content we would be furious at what couldve been but also stunned at how many games we accept as complete yet left a lot of content on the cutting room floor.

Kojima had 5 years to make the game he wanted and he had unprecedented control over a AAA production compared to other studio heads. While konami's shift away from AAA development and their need to get this out the door does make them the obvious villain we must accept that Kojima kinda fucked this up, too.

 

[KOMANI]

The side ops in ground zeroes are refreshing compared to the horror of eliminating tank unit 356.
1. Eliminate the eye and the finger
2. Destroy enemy gunships and tank and get out before the timer ends while the base is on Alert
3. Rescue Kojima WHILE youre on Morpho
4. Find the tape... The secret tape
5. reanact the memories of shadow moses
6. Kill the snatchers
The missions of phantom pain are stripped down versions of these or lack ingenuity

 

[Opto]

I bet Chico was originally meant to survive and had to be rescued from Gitmo, but time constraints, so nope, Chico's dead.

 

[brau]

just saw this on twitter no idea if legit but just showing you all

This makes sense.

V chapters for MGSV. And each carry a theme that does represent the game.

Count me as sad.

 

[Unknown One]

If that list is true, then that game would have taken 10 years to complete going by how long it took to make 2 shitty chapters.

 

[KOMANI]

If that list is true, then that game would have taken 10 years to complete going by how long it took to make 2 shitty chapters.

Like how destiny is supposed to have a 10 year plan?

 

[Chariot]

If that list is true, then that game would have taken 10 years to complete going by how long it took to make 2 shitty chapters.

Well, I would think that chapter 1 wouldn't be as long and some missions of it would be part of later chapters. "Race" could've meant a race against time when the infection hits and race against Skullface in execution his plan. Would've made more sense than what we have now.

 

[Unknown One]

Like how destiny is supposed to have a 10 year plan?

Haha

I don't think MGS fans would like an episodic Metal Gear Solid. Especially when majority of the mission felt like fillers in episode 1/2.

 

[KOMANI]

Well, I would think that chapter 1 wouldn't be as long and some missions of it would be part of later chapters. "Race" could've meant a race against time when the infection hits and race against Skullface in execution his plan. Would've made more sense than what we have now.

I think race means ethnicity since that's supposed to be part of the theme.

 

[Chariot]

I think race means ethnicity since that's supposed to be part of the theme.

There is really nothing about ethnicity in the game. Even the language part is hardly touched upon, aside from the infection at which point it could just be a cough.

 

[El Jaffe]

just saw this on twitter no idea if legit but just showing you all

Jesus, if this is true and there were supposed to be 5 chapters, and Kojima could only finish 1.5 in 5yrs? Can kind of see why Konami was going crazy.

 

[brau]

Jesus, if this is true and there were supposed to be 5 chapters, and Kojima could only finish 1.5 in 5yrs? Can kind of see why Konami was going crazy.

and people here saying that Kojima is a good manager.

 

[Chariot]

Jesus, if this is true and there were supposed to be 5 chapters, and Kojima could only finish 1.5 in 5yrs? Can kind of see why Konami was going crazy.

Well, the gameplay is pretty complete. I assume that they worked at that first.

 

[KOMANI]

There is really nothing about ethnicity in the game. Even the language part is hardly touched upon, aside from the infection at which point it could just be a cough.

There is, but 99% of it is cut
White mamba
Ethnic cleanser
Virus effecting those who speak a certain language

I doubt very much RACE meant a race

 

[Alienous]

just saw this on twitter no idea if legit but just showing you all

Of course it's bullshit.

It isn't hard to come up with potential chapter titles than end with 'e', and the ones here aren't even provocative.

There is, but 99% of it is cut
White mamba
Ethnic cleanser
Virus effecting those who speak a certain language

I doubt very much RACE meant a race

I interpreted it as 'race' in terms of ethnicities, but also in terms of an 'arms race', when I first heard the title.

But in the game it's actually 'Chapter 2: Race (to the finish!)'

 

[brau]

There is, but 99% of it is cut
White mamba
Ethnic cleanser
Virus effecting those who speak a certain language

I doubt very much RACE meant a race

They had to cut jeep races against soldiers at motherbase... when you win a circuit you would eventually have to drive against Kaz and Ocellit.

 

[KOMANI]

They had to cut jeep races against soldiers at motherbase... when you win a circuit you would eventually have to drive against Kaz and Ocellit.

Hahaha
metal gears? A race to surpass Metal Gear?

 

[Unknown One]

Well, the gameplay is pretty complete. I assume that they worked at that first.

Still got to have the actors do the voice overs, direct the scenes, script the mission scenarios, create actual boss battles, and etc.

 

[Chariot]

There is, but 99% of it is cut
White mamba
Ethnic cleanser
Virus effecting those who speak a certain language

I doubt very much RACE meant a race

There is more to ethnic than language. And his plan was to eradicate english. That would affect pretty much all ethnics thanks to globalisation. It would be something different, if he had the ebonics strain or the scottish haggis strain. But just english? That goes beyound ethnics.

And if you need to bring up White Mamba as example how the game is about race, that's pretty weak.

Still got to have the actors do the voice overs, direct the scenes, script the mission scenarios, create actual boss battles, and etc.

Yes. I was meaning to say that he would've worked a lot faster from now on, since everything basic was finished.

 

[SJRB]

I bet Chico was originally meant to survive and had to be rescued from Gitmo, but time constraints, so nope, Chico's dead.

Might be interesting.


It's remarkable how Gitmo keeps coming back in the timelines, both in GZ and several times in Phantom Pain as well even though [outside of a clear reference to Camp Omega] Guantanamo Bay has nothing to do with anything.

 

[Arttemis]

if we saw a list of every game that has cut content we would be furious at what couldve been but also stunned at how many games we accept as complete yet left a lot of content on the cutting room floor.

Kojima had 5 years to make the game he wanted and he had unprecedented control over a AAA production compared to other studio heads. While konami's shift away from AAA development and their need to get this out the door does make them the obvious villain we must accept that Kojima kinda fucked this up, too.

Konami ultimately demanded that this is the product that gets sent out. They were okay releasing this.

Yeah, Kojima should have managed his time and priorities better, but Konami should have listened to their staff that were most definitely saying the game needed another delay. They should have delayed the game again.

I would much rather have waited another year or TWO than get this. I don't see how anyone gets upset at delays when this is the alternative.

 

[Alienous]

They had to cut jeep races against soldiers at motherbase... when you win a circuit you would eventually have to drive against Kaz and Ocellit.

What rubbish.

You were supposed to race D-Walkers.

 

[brau]

Even if that list is fake... the structure of Chapter 1 is setting the pace and tone of hte game. It feels complete in that respect. Whether it has filler or not. Chapter 2 should've been the same... but instead they got crunched down to rehash and the missions they had already done. So the pacing went to shit.

Thinking that MGSV was a 2 chapter game doesn't make sense. 3 is a more traditional standard. 5 sounds appropriate. Whatever the case is... this game was out of scope. It got hacked and then frankensteined together to get out the door.

At least the game is fun and has amazing gameplay.

What rubbish.

You were supposed to race D-Walkers.

wuuuuuuuuuut!!!

Someone needs to mod this! coop mode and race d Walkers. 8 player matches.

 

[semiconscious]

Kojima had 5 years to make the game he wanted and he had unprecedented control over a AAA production compared to other studio heads. While konami's shift away from AAA development and their need to get this out the door does make them the obvious villain we must accept that Kojima kinda fucked this up, too...

can't believe anyone would argue with this. me, i remain convinced that he simply ran outa gas half-way along: whether it was due to just being tired of the franchise, period, or having to create the engine as well as the game, or both, or something else entirely, who knows. but it's extremely evident he eventually found himself in over his head...

 

[KOMANI]

There is more to ethnic than language. And his plan was to eradicate english. That would affect pretty much all ethnics thanks to globalisation. It would be something different, if he had the ebonics strain or the scottish haggis strain. But just english? That goes beyound ethnics.

And if you need to bring up White Mamba as example how the game is about race, that's pretty weak.

My opinion isn't here to serve you. In a game where the third Chapter is cut, and presumably the second as well, along with taboo story points... It would be Logical, if Race was a chapter , it would deal with a race of people(s).., not a foot race.
If I go by your "strong" arguement, what would the supposed FACE chapter be about? Cosmetics?

 

[funkystudent]

I dont think the originally planned game was much bigger then what we got.


Even as far back as Ground Zeros the only areas people mined from the files where the hospital, Afghanistan and Africa. No mytical 3rd area. No Outer Heaven. Nothing pointed to anything like that.


I do think a bunch of stuff in act 2 was cut. And possibly some stuff from act 1 as well we dont know about.

I am not sure what to make of the Act 3. Maybe it would have just been some form of End Game based around the extra hard missions or something with something locked behind finishing it.

I see the game originally being.

Act 1.
Skull Face story
Act 2.
Side storys and finishing lose ends. (Quiet story, Liquid story, mantis, Vulgin etc...)
Act 3.
Substance and Extreme missions. Complate them all to unlocked the True ending or something.

 

[Unknown One]

There is more to ethnic than language. And his plan was to eradicate english. That would affect pretty much all ethnics thanks to globalisation. It would be something different, if he had the ebonics strain or the scottish haggis strain. But just english? That goes beyound ethnics.

And if you need to bring up White Mamba as example how the game is about race, that's pretty weak.Yes. I was meaning to say that he would've worked a lot faster from now on, since everything basic was finished.

I don't really have hope for Kojima actually finishing MGSV in 1.5 years. Yes what you said makes a lot of sense. I just lost all my hope in Kojima due to this game. At this point, it's not even about the "what if" for me. I just don't want to play the hypothetical game. The basic structure of MGSV left such a distaste in my mouth, I wish the MGS collection was released on Steam.

 

[brau]

can't believe anyone would argue with this. me, i remain convinced that he simply ran outa gas half-way along: whether it was due to just being tired of the franchise, period, or having to create the engine as well as the game, or both, or something else entirely, who knows. but it's extremely evident he eventually found himself in over his head...

My guess... put all eggs into Fox engine... since the engine is said to handle all skus at the same time, and its super easy to make missions. Then that is the priority. By the time they were done with the engine... too much resources and time had passed.

When it came to design and story... then things started to feel fragmented and secluded. Because thats the game... its pieces.. and sometimes those pieces don't fit together very well. This comes from working in that environment.

 

[Chariot]

My opinion isn't here to serve you. In a game where the third Chapter is cut, and presumably the second as well, along with taboo story points... It would be Logical, if Race was a chapter , it would deal with a race of people(s).., not a foot race.
If I go by your "strong" arguement, what would the supposed FACE chapter be about? Cosmetics?

I was talking about what's left, since the chapter is still called Race for some stupid reason, even if there is neither ethnicity nor a race to or with anything involved. And no, I don't think that the story - as far as we know - is prepared to talk about ethnics.

I don't really have hope for Kojima actually finishing MGSV in 1.5 years. Yes what you said makes a lot of sense. I just lost all my hope in Kojima due to this game. At this point, it's not even about the "what if" for me. I just don't want to play the hypothetical game. The basic structure of MGSV left such a distaste in my mouth, I wish the MGS collection was released on Steam.

I agree. Of course there is nothing left for us but speculation and dreams. The story is lacking and nothing but a bunch of interesting ideas that lead to nothing.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

if we saw a list of every game that has cut content we would be furious at what couldve been but also stunned at how many games we accept as complete yet left a lot of content on the cutting room floor.

Kojima had 5 years to make the game he wanted and he had unprecedented control over a AAA production compared to other studio heads. While konami's shift away from AAA development and their need to get this out the door does make them the obvious villain we must accept that Kojima kinda fucked this up, too.

Yeah, there's no point in digging up cut content/concepts since we don't even know if those things escaped the conceptual phase before getting axed. It's not like they put it in there and then decided "nah fuck it." It's even more pointless to complain when said content wouldn't have answered any questions or remedied any problems that players were left with at the end of MGSV.

However, it is reasonable that people would complain because, in a lot of ways, the story feels incredibly thin and incomplete and no amount of supplemental tapes can fix that.

Of course it's bullshit.

It isn't hard to come up with potential chapter titles than end with 'e', and the ones here aren't even provocative.

I like how it's an offscreen photo to really convince people that it's a legit leak.

 

[KOMANI]

I dont think the originally planned game was much bigger then what we got.


Even as far back as Ground Zeros the only areas people mined from the files where the hospital, Afghanistan and Africa. No mytical 3rd area. No Outer Heaven. Nothing pointed to anything like that.


I do think a bunch of stuff in act 2 was cut. And possibly some stuff from act 1 as well we dont know about.

I am not sure what to make of the Act 3. Maybe it would have just been some form of End Game based around the extra hard missions or something with something locked behind finishing it.

I see the game originally being.

Act 1.
Skull Face story
Act 2.
Side storys and finishing lose ends. (Quiet story, Liquid story, mantis, Vulgin etc...)
Act 3.
Substance and Extreme missions. Complate them all to unlocked the True ending or something.

this is all hypothetical.., but I don't think Outerheaven is a new place to visit. Just a one episode chapter like the prologue.

 

[KorrZ]

My guess... put all eggs into Fox engine... since the engine is said to handle all skus at the same time, and its super easy to make missions. Then that is the priority. By the time they were done with the engine... too much resources and time had passed.

When it came to design and story... then things started to feel fragmented and secluded. Because thats the game... its pieces.. and sometimes those pieces don't fit together very well. This comes from working in that environment.

Considering the lack of story and the fact that you can see a good chunk of the cutscenes for the game in trailers going all the way back to 2013 wtf were they working on for so long?

I know the engine took a long time, but the mission design is so generic it could be completely randomly generated. It seems obvious that Kojima got locked down in little details. That works for a 15 hour linear game but if you're trying to hand craft an open world it doesn't work so well.

 

[TsunamiOfSwagger]

168 hours, finally got that plat. Need a god damn break from this now.

 

[Unknown One]

I agree. Of course there is nothing left for us but speculation and dreams. The story is lacking and nothing but a bunch of interesting ideas that lead to nothing.

For me there is nothing left, but the older games. I feel like Big Boss at The Boss's Cemetery.

 

[razzmahtazz]

Wasnt the 80 million price tag just a rumored report?

 

[immortal-joe]

I know this thread has gone beyond discussing actual plot points, but humor me:

Reading the final recap in the game after the credits, it refers to the Big Boss who dies at the end of MG 1 as "Big Boss's Phantom", while it only uses "Big Boss" for the one who gets taken down in Zanzibar Land (MG 2).

So is the implication that the Phantom dies in MG 1, and then the real Big Boss makes his move and leads to the events of MG 2?

 

[KOMANI]

I know this thread has gone beyond discussing actual plot points, but humor me:

Reading the final recap in the game after the credits, it refers to the Big Boss who dies at the end of MG 1 as "Big Boss's Phantom", while it only uses "Big Boss" for the one who gets taken down in Zanzibar Land (MG 2).

So is the implication that the Phantom dies in MG 1, and then the real Big Boss makes his move and leads to the events of MG 2?

Yes

 

[Alienous]

I know this thread has gone beyond discussing actual plot points, but humor me:

Reading the final recap in the game after the credits, it refers to the Big Boss who dies at the end of MG 1 as "Big Boss's Phantom", while it only uses "Big Boss" for the one who gets taken down in Zanzibar Land (MG 2).

So is the implication that the Phantom dies in MG 1, and then the real Big Boss makes his move and leads to the events of MG 2?

You got it.