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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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I did manage to randomly stop him a couple times but didn't know why. I already beat him on Extreme but will go back to give it a shot with this, thanks.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Oldest Snake
Member
I really don't think he's forced to make these specific games though.
I'm sure Konami would have been on board for another Solid Snake game after MGS3 and MGS4 dropped him as the lead (yeah Old Snake is Solid, but... y'know... he's so old and phlegmy) but Kojima just kept going back to the Big Boss well for some reason.
The man seemed to still have passion for these games in all the pre-release material, and it sounded like he had high hopes for what he could accomplish from a narrative point of view in MGSV. Whether he bit off more than he could chew or Konami shut him down on the 'controversial' elements he wanted to include (or a bit of both) I guess we'll never know.
Well with 4 he wanted to end the series. He tied up all loose ends so I imagine he still has somewhat a respect of the plot and didn't want to continue Solid's story. The idea of a trilogy of big boss games where he turns into a villain isn't a bad idea (I loved the idea for years). There's 30 years in between 3 and MG1 so there was a good story that could have been told. He just messed it up.
Shadow2222
Member
This is a good point. I believe him when he said that MGS2/3/4/Peace Walker was his last Metal Gear. Fans always clamor for more story than they were ever supposed to receive.
Big Boss not shaking hands and the salute/tear at 3 was always enough to subtlely tell me how Big Boss eventually became what he was in MG1. I don't regret the extra games we received because I think they have great gameplay, especially Phantom Pain.
What I do find funny is that I've seen 4 berated for fanservice and bringing back characters for no reason, but I've seen the sentiment that the same should have happened in PP.
I'm still torn on the story, but I do actually like the twist.
Kevin Shields
Member
Spot on and Sehalanthropus has prob been my favorite metal gear fight in the series but I generally don't like them that much. The scale of that fight was awesome though. Ishida you really do despise this game don't you? Lol.
I just did like 6 side ops in a row for an hour and the gameplay is so fun I just eat it up like candy. Does anyone love the Geist handgun like me? I go that and shield for tons of side ops.
Berserker976
Member
Very interesting video! I agree with most everything in it, and although I'm not a PW fan myself, your analysis of how it really did MGSV's job better was great.
One thing about your Miller analysis though: In the mission where it looks like Kaz does 180 on the child soldiers, he does that because the earlier conversations were being recorded as proof for their employer that they went through with it. Kaz had no intention of ever letting the kids come to harm, he was faking it for the recording.
Nah, I don't buy that because Miller didn't know what you would do when you found them, he reminded you of the mission and then Venom is all like "no, there's another way" and Miller is like "Outer Heaven?" Afterwards, he does the whole "tapes rolling Boss" to trick the employer.
I wonder if the loss of Fukushima as a writer had an effect.
He is the sole person responsible for the stories though, even if he was forced to make games, he could have done a game based on Solid Snake killing metal gears all over the world (in place of PW / MGS4) and then close the circle with MGS5. Or hell, remakes of MG1 / MG2.
Ground Zeroes could be the prologue to MG1 and everybody is happy, you see why Big Boss went loco and his downfall in glorious 1080p
Berserker976
Member
Hmm, I guess you're right. Wait, is this the mission in which the child soldiers first appeared? I thought there was a mission beforehand in which Miller tells you it's mission over if you harm any child soldiers. Not that that clears anything up, because it just means that Miller flip-flopped twice on the issue.
But he also has that heartfelt tape where he explains why it's so important to him that the child soldiers be taken off the battlefield.
I think the most obvious answer is that for that one mission they needed to have Miller present some ambiguity to what your mission is, so they just had him act like that, regardless of his character both before and after the mission.
Yeah but Kojima doesn't like to do the same shit again, that was the whole point of MGS2. It'd be wast for him to just make another standard MGS similar to MGS1, but he's done that and he's ready to do other things but the fans and Konami force him to perpetually work on and churn out MGS games. He's trapped by his own success and lashes out with each new iteration of the game trying to get his message across.
I also don't see how the loss of Fukushima effected the writing in a serious way. Again, Peace Walker had a brilliant story despite the usual Kojima-craziness and Fukushima wasn't there for that.
So interesting. So hence the name V..... not only serves as a mirror of the number 5. But its still different to dictate its a shadow.
Exactly this. It's funny how people fall for his usual bullshit story of "I don't want to keep doing more. It's the fans and Konami that force me to. I'm a tortured developer."
Nonsense. He wanted to keep doing them. He kept getting new ideas and kept doing games based on those ideas. He could've quit whenever he wanted to, even resigning Konami if necessary. It's not like he was afraid to be jobless. Tons of companies would kill to have Kojima in their ranks.
So this whole "I didn't want to make more games after MGS", "I didn't want to make more games after MGS2", "I didn't want to make more games after MGS3"... It's hilarious bullshit.
+1 esp. the bolded part
Kojima was a VP at Konami thus he was forced to look at the business side of things. Metal Gear sells and when the big wigs want more he has to make sure the brand is still fresh and good. I believe him when he says he doesn't want to work on the series but he also doesn't want the name of the brand tarnished. And, like I said he has to do what is profitable for the company no matter how much he wants to work on something else.
Not that he isn't to blame for MGSV's failures, Konami certainly has some blame but 5 years of development and we get a game that isn't even half-way complete assuming it should have 5 chapters. I'm willing to bet that Ch. 1 was supposed to take place exclusively in Afghanistan with Ch. 2 "Race" beginning in Africa. The massive costs for the game simply cannot be ignored and Konami was right to pull the cord. Now, if they were still making AAA games those cots could be subsidized thanks to the brand new FOX Engine they could use for all future games but with those AAA games cut there was no reason to keep investing more money into the game.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I know Kojima had no patience. So Kojipro isn't allowed to make another game because of Rising? That's Fair.
Kevin Shields
Member
How much was cut is all conjecture... We know 1 mission for sure and even then we don't know the whole story behind Eli. So note that it's speculation... We really have no idea how it went down. Still saying a 50 hour game is only half finished is kinda reductive.
http://www.konami.jp/mgs5/
Konami regard it as MGS5 at the very least.
Keep hunting the white whale guys. See you in |OT3| Meta Gear Solid
not really thats terrible.
Metal Gear Solid is profitable, yes, but Konami would let him do something else. They let him make a PSP MGS game after MGS4.
He had a lot of clout. If he decided to make a new IP he could, I'm sure. The issue is that Metal Gear Solid wouldn't stop if Kojima wasn't working on one; Konami would still want that to continue parallel to whatever Kojima does next. I don't think Kojima's ego (the same ego that named a development studio 'Me Productions') could let that happen.
He has to convince himself that his team in incompetent without him, and also convince himself that he has to reluctantly march them through the process of development. His team could make a MGS game without him, and I think more than anything he was scared to have that happen, so he stuck with Metal Gear Solid.
He had a lot of clout. If he decided to make a new IP he could, I'm sure. The issue is that Metal Gear Solid wouldn't stop if Kojima wasn't working on one; Konami would still want that to continue parallel to whatever Kojima does next. I don't think Kojima's ego (the same ego that named a development studio 'Me Productions') could let that happen.
He has to convince himself that his team in incompetent without him, and also convince himself that he has to reluctantly march them through the process of development. His team could make a MGS game without him, and I think more than anything he was scared to have that happen, so he stuck with Metal Gear Solid.
The Witcher 3 is even longer but I think everyone would agree that the game would be half finished if it simply ended after Novigrad. But, you are right we can only attack the game with speculation since we have no idea how it went down. However, based on past MGS games I think a pattern is quite clear and the game most likely would have had 5 chapters. But, when the game was still unfinished Kojima had to finish the game and take all that content he had and combine it into two chapters.
But again, pure speculation.
Thats a good point. Kojima has a huge ego... indication of his name all over the place, excpet in the cover of the game. Only because it was removed.
Eh that's debatable it could just be a big fuck you to Konami, given what we know (not much really)
Death Metalist
Member
So what I'm getting at is that people would rather not have MGSV? Man, it's the most fun in a game I had this year. Sometimes it feels like I am living in a different planet and that's coming from a hardcore MGS fan that has 4 as his favorite one lol.
Edit; We'll never have a stealth game like this ever again. I wish but I'm sure we won't. It's what makes MGS, MGS.
Edit; We'll never have a stealth game like this ever again. I wish but I'm sure we won't. It's what makes MGS, MGS.
According to him, there were issues with 3 and 4, prompting his return. Rising then had to be given to Platinum because it was a wreck.
The "he could leave whenever he wanted" and "kojipro can make a game without him" are massive assumptions and conjecture that flat out ignore history.
TsunamiOfSwagger
Member
IOT3I Here's your third chapter
SJRB
Gold Member
Kojima left them alone and they fucking trainwrecked it.
It was so bad that Kojima had to go to Platinum with hat in hand and basically beg them for help. I'm sure that was a harsh lesson for Kojima that his team is indeed not capable of making a game without his supervision; something he tried to accomplish before even MGS3 was released. But similar to Rising, MGS3's development was a mess and he had to step in.
We jest about his managing skills, but the guy is a machine. Watch the making of-videos for MGS2 or MGS4, his strive for perfection is unparalleled.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Guy definitely has an ego. Nothing wrong with that, until you go over board. And he did. With MGS V.
Look, no one here wanted the game to disappoint them. I've never been disappointed by a Kojima game. We're all here because we're fan or just recently became fans. And I'm glad people love this game... Just don't sit here and tell me this is the game we were promised, that it's a complete game with no filler. Yea, it's 70 hours... Because you have to complete a gauntlet of doppelgänger missions just to unlock what is essentially the first mission.
Look, no one here wanted the game to disappoint them. I've never been disappointed by a Kojima game. We're all here because we're fan or just recently became fans. And I'm glad people love this game... Just don't sit here and tell me this is the game we were promised, that it's a complete game with no filler. Yea, it's 70 hours... Because you have to complete a gauntlet of doppelgänger missions just to unlock what is essentially the first mission.
Kevin Shields
Member
I'm with you. The more I play it, the more I love it. It may be rising to be not only my fav game this year but the game of this generation so far. Stealth/stealth action is my favorite genre though so this game is exactly up my alley
Don't you shake your head at me Diamond Joe, as I said in my video PW closes BB's character quite brilliantly. Once you just accept the non-sense of these AI Tank monstrosities existing what you get is a well told story with amazing moments and a real heart. Coldman was a far more effective villain than Skullface and his plan made perfect sense.
FranXico
Member
Wasn't Metal Gear Portable Ops made without his supervision?
He was on as producer.
What that entails? I'm not educated enough to know
at least in my case, i don't think thats what im saying.
MGSV is a great game. But its not a good MGS game. Majority of people agree.... its unfortunate but true...and even when the game is amazing and people are playing it for 300 hrs... the experience for me... was not as enjoyable because the game kept going downhill in its story. Believe it or not. When it comes to MGS... i like the narrative.. and even if its not good narrative, or its to crazy. At least i like motivation in a game to keep me going from point a to point b.
Maybe in a few years i'll see the game as something else. But since i payed quite a bit of money for the game.. i would like to express my disappointment in the game and through it come to terms with it.
I am ok with another MGS game from Platinum tho.
Kevin Shields
Member
I'm fine admitting it's faults including a half backed chapter 2 (with the twist being put in an awful prologue do over) but I'm still satisfied with one of the best playing games ever. Of course, if the story was worse than it already is and had MGS4 levels of stupidity, it would still probably be my goty. I love the gameplay and level design that much.
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