Graphics Horse
Member
Wtf? I didn't think I'd hear this one again.
Mine shrank (possibly because someone stole the nuke I'd just built, bastards.)
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Wtf? I didn't think I'd hear this one again.
Mine shrank (possibly because someone stole the nuke I'd just built, bastards.)
TsunamiOfSwagger
Member
I was going to keep mine, but I wanted the trophy for dismantling it. No way I was waiting 24 hours again because of some light fingered thief pinching it. So as soon as it was built, I scrapped it. But the horn is still protruding even though I am at something like 600,000 hero points.
Because Miller would've had her killed/expelled on the spot. And by that point, she'd likely grown to care for BB and MSF, so she didn't want a reason to be forced to leave or have them all hate her even more.
Or yeah, she was still considering painting the town red. (Mission 45, right?)
I skipped the repeat missions in chapter 2 and I feel like I got a better story experience because of it. I just ran the regular missions nearly back to back and it felt really solid for me. They should have just put those into an EXTRA OPS menu or something instead. My chapter 2 was great. Not everyone played it how I did, but I skipped the filler. Interesting about the chapter 1 missions, but for me alot of those ran together because I did them back to back without calling the chopper when I could.
One thing you leave out is how much of the story takes place on Mother Base as well. You get called back after random missions and you get tapes that explain more of what's going on. When you take all of that into account, which is unfortunately one time only content that you can't experience again by replaying missions, it becomes harder to say that "nothing happened". There's story in some of the missions, story between missions, and story on tapes. It's still pretty big. (And if chapter 3 ever happens....)
I wonder how the game balance would have shaken out if GZ was just part of PP. Would the extra ops have been re contextualized to be in the present day of 1984? There's 4+2 of them, plus 7 hard mode variants (like the 12 hard mode missions we get unlocked with chapter 2) It would have been interesting if we had simulated, offline invasions of every platform of mother base like chapter 22 did as well...just for variety in the second half of chapter 1 (or pushed into chapter 2, which has most of it's story take place on motherbase anyways)
DamonForever
Member
It wasn't during TPP, as Ocelot hypnotised himself and would only realise the truth when real Boss shows himself, which he never does. So either it's wayyyy after TPP, or before. Miller is grooming VS (like he says he will in the tapes) during TPP to think/act like he wants (all the quarrels with Ocelot), so I'm leaning towards before.
Plus, the whole conversations sounds like it's before VS arrives doesn't it?
I'm surprised Miller doesn't just tell VS, instead of having VS only know through BBs tape.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Miller knew the whole time. I haven't heard the tapes recently, but Zero clues him in during the coma period and Ocelot brings him up to speed after he is rescued.
It's why in the beginning he's good ol Kaz, but then after ward on mother base we have Dark Knight Kaz. He's pissed off about being in the position he's in so he wants to take on the whole damn world and get revenge on Cipher and eventually Skull Face.
Also... I can imagine the last thing your gonna worry about when being rescued by someone who looks like your friend is the shrapnel in his head even if you do notice it. Being malnourished and injured, your probably not thinking straight, especially over little details that happened almost a decade ago. But getting told your friend abandoned you (probably over finding out you were working for cipher), and that you had to play along or else risk never getting your (dream) army [nation] built (so you'll be able to get revenge) would make anyone sound like the dark knight.
I don't buy the hypnotizing, It has to be an Ocelot lie. Let the Legend come to life, is to on the noes. Plus he had to refresh Miller on the situation and keep him in check in case he bailed on the plan.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
The shrapnel has a mind of its own. It uses metallic archaea byproduct.
They didn't put a jack in his chest they just stabbed him with the headphone plug and left it there. In case you don't remember Chico brought a Walkman to Camp Omega which he used to make the recordings you hear in the game, just a few hours before the events of the game Skull Face takes it away from him, then we hear a loud scream, we can assume that's when they do it.
There is no deeper mystery to any of this, it's got nothing to do with the parasites, it's just Skull Face being a sadistic asshole who likes to torture children.
funkystudent
Member
|OT2-2| OT3 was cut.
No, Zero tells Miller that he has Big Boss in his care. The real one. Zero doesn't tell Miller about the plan.
He isn't "good ol' Kaz" at any time in The Phantom Pain, expect maybe the Burger tapes. He's pissed when he's rescued, and basically raving in the helicopter. After he has medical attention he is still pissed, he just has more control of his anger.
There's no reason to think that the post-credits conversation at the end of The Phantom Pain took place at the beginning of the game. That isn't the case with any other Metal Gear Solid game, and it doesn't make any more sense that it happening after the events of Chapter 1.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | [EXTREME] Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
The game rehashed missions, I say we rehash the OP.
? Stabbed him with the headphone plug?
Is this in some tapes? I totally missed it, still it seems just dumb.
Haha, that's good.
semiconscious
Member
i've come to the conclusion that mgsv, like batman:ak, functions best as a theme park: you can hang out & enjoy yourself for hours on end, but don't look for anything beyond that. because that's all there is 
...
...Perfect
ShockingAlberto
Member
I had never thought about the Miller/Shrapnel thing before.
Fuck, now that's now going to bother me forever.
Fuck, now that's now going to bother me forever.
You can just picture BB with a cigar in his mouth going, "I'm not cutting off my fuckin' arm, Adam."
LOL this
So meta! Kojima would love it. This gets my vote.
No it's not, but in the absence of any alternative explanations we can infer that this happens right about here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fg3cA8i3qw#t=22m20s
7DollarHagane
Banned
I really think miller was putting on an act the whole game and knew it wasn't BB. His dialog is so different than the way he talks to BB in peace walker. He's constantly acting like he has to bite his tongue when Venom makes decisions he doesn't agree with or doesn't do what he wants.
At least that's how I figure it.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Yeah "shrapnel" was just shorthand.
It's not like Miller never knew. He even calls attention to it in the part we didn't see until Truth.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
It's one of three things:
Miller's vision is shit and no one tells him that snake is missing an arm and has shrapnel
It's that he knew that it was venom snake and went along with it begrudgingly which is why he would often question your choices in the game and had to beg you to say Kept you waiting huh post-being-tortured which confirmed his suspicions when he was unable to really see at the time. It also explains why he's so damn pissy the whole game, he was abandoned by BB.
Or poor writing by Kojima.
Miller's vision is shit and no one tells him that snake is missing an arm and has shrapnel
It's that he knew that it was venom snake and went along with it begrudgingly which is why he would often question your choices in the game and had to beg you to say Kept you waiting huh post-being-tortured which confirmed his suspicions when he was unable to really see at the time. It also explains why he's so damn pissy the whole game, he was abandoned by BB.
Or poor writing by Kojima.
Moon_frogger
Member
This works both ways dude. Just because you were disappointed doesn't mean those who thinks its goty were brainwashed or somehow otherwise influenced by outside factors like the konami drama. We just loved the game.
Also, not everybody who reviewed it attended that event and the game still got incredibly high scores across the board. Those who didn't attend gave it similar or in some cases higher scores than those who did.
KOMANI
KOMANI
Well his eye sight can't be that bad because he does look past big boss to ask ,"what about him", and he can probably tell Big Biss isn't missing an arm since he's chilling on his left side.
Or...Ocelot somehow hypnotized Millar before he got captured and after the Zero phone call.
Or... That scene never happened and it was almost Bug Faux's head.
Or... And this gets my vote... Hideo Kojima sucks as a writer.
Or...Ocelot somehow hypnotized Millar before he got captured and after the Zero phone call.
Or... That scene never happened and it was almost Bug Faux's head.
Or... And this gets my vote... Hideo Kojima sucks as a writer.
That whole Kaz/shrapnel thing depends on when Ocelot/Kaz talk to each other about the truth; in the ending dialogue it is not clear if Venom has already awoken or not, therefore I don't mind that potential plothole that much
Personally, I think Kaz knew about everything right from the beginning since you don't see him being unfamiliar with Ocelot when he arrives at MB which is why I conclude that they knew each other before Venom wakes up
Personally, I think Kaz knew about everything right from the beginning since you don't see him being unfamiliar with Ocelot when he arrives at MB which is why I conclude that they knew each other before Venom wakes up
7DollarHagane
Banned
One of the people most critical of konami, Jim sterling, gave the game high marks as well. Not everyone cares about the story like you might - the fact that the game is a highly polished and lengthy game with great mechanics is enough for it to be rated highly, even if the story isn't what fans wanted or is considered "disappointing" or "unfinished".
It feels like people want to hate the game rather than actually having legitimate reasons to hate the game. They hate the story because it wasn't what they wanted so they feel like they have to hate the game. Same shit as MGS2 14 years ago. Read so many forum posts along the same lines and another couple years later people came around on the game and it's well regarded now.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Even if it's not a plothole, "everyone was just lying" is really not great writing.
7DollarHagane
Banned
KOMANI
KOMANI
Here is the scary part- there's still MGO. Now MGO can save the game for those disappointed in the SP experience, or it could even more evidence of how incomplete the game is if it also turns out to be shoddy
It doesn't matter if his eyesight was damaged afterwards because he knows Big Faux has a prosthetic and he knows Big Boss wasn't missing an arm at the hospital.
It doesn't matter if his eyesight was damaged afterwards because he knows Big Faux has a prosthetic and he knows Big Boss wasn't missing an arm at the hospital.
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. I said this in my initial post in this thread as well: Kojima applied The Truman Show on the MGS universe. It's bad.
Man.. going with this crazy ass filler 'story' instead of just giving us the rise of Outer Heaven and that MG1 connection at the end is such a tragedy.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
That would also explain why ocelot almost always sides with venom and Miller doesn't. Ocelot hypnotized himself to believe venom was legit. Miller didn't.
7DollarHagane
Banned
There are motivations for it though - Ocelot is acting in the interest of protectig the true Big Boss's anonymity, miller is acting in the interest of "siding with" Venom Snake and building his private army.
He's not happy about it, but he puts on the act. What would miller have to gain by telling Venom the truth? Would Diamond Dogs have the same success with Big Boss's Phantom, vs everyone thinking its the real big boss? He was using venom for his own goals as well.
I'd rather have an Igor then.
"Yessss, Masterrr"
Or even if you think Ocelot is lying about the hypnosis (which I like to believe), you can view his siding with Venom as him keeping up the facade and showing Miller that Miller has no one on his side, so he must follow Venom even if he doesn't agree.
It all works. It's just messy. That's pretty much how I feel about this whole story.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It's not about brainwashing. I just think the Konami debacle played an enormous part in the reviews and into perception of the game.
It's painfully evident when some people in this thread are all too willing to blame faults of MGSV on Konami and excuse Kojima.
That speaks to my general issue with sites trying to pump out reviews. For good critique, you need to sit on something longer.
Addition of this GIF just tops it off perfectly.I'll probably do this but add this gif
ShockingAlberto
Member
Well, there's motivations for it because they wrote motivations for it. It would be even weirder if they didn't.
There's two ways to look at stories - does this make sense at the time and did it all make sense in the end? You can reason away the second one, but combining the two makes me furrow my brow a bit.
KOMANI
KOMANI
By not giving us that story, which btw I don't care either way, it tells me he was too intimidated to tell it. This game has ZERO character development whereas the Outerheaven/ Apocalypse Now storyline requires A LOT of character development.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Like, the entire game Miller argues with Boss, but does whatever he says because he's the Boss and has earned this reputation of being an amazing soldier with great judgment. He repeatedly appeals to his emotions of losing their shared dream.
This could 100% be him reinforcing to Venom that he is Big Boss but boy is that shitty writing if that's the case.
This could 100% be him reinforcing to Venom that he is Big Boss but boy is that shitty writing if that's the case.
I do too. I think Ocelot even tells big boss that Miller has preparations underway before the hospital escape ever happens.
7DollarHagane
Banned
I don't understand the criticism?
Miller was put in a shitty position where his best friend who happened to be the rockstar of the military world left him to rot in a cell in afghanistan.
Best friend's doppleganger shows up and he's the only one who knows it's not the rockstar.
Why wouldn't he begrudgingly play along to have a chance at success? I think the setup is fairly solid and consistent with his motivations from peace walker. He wanted revenge and to rebuild MSF. Venom provided a chance at that, Big Boss didn't.
I have reasons to believe the ending conversation happened after Venom Snake awoke.
A Kaz quote from the dialogue:
This confirms they were talking about it quite recently. And as we know, Kaz had been held hostage in Afghanistan. So it had to be after Venom Snake saved him. Why else mention the 9 years? At the end of the conversation, I feel like I can hear Kaz leaving with his cane, too.
We also know Ocelot hypnotized himself shortly after he rescues both Venom Snake and Big Boss. This implies he remembered the true events again. Which is weird. But yeah.
I also feel like Kaz is way too angry (Fuck Big Boss.) for this to happen before the events of MGSV. His hatred seems to be fueled by him aiding Big Boss and listening to all of his orders in MGSV and only afterwards finding out he wasn't being led by the real Big Boss.
In the end, Ocelot says this btw:
To me, this heavily implies Ocelot was the one Liquid sent to kill Kaz.
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