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[Yokai]

This is probably the most divisive game ever made. Not just divisive between fans but within myself. Seriously, I still don't even know how I feel about this game.


This definitely lived up to the shock and awe mgs2 left, that's for sure. Hell, sehalanthropus leaving never to be seen again is much like how ocelot just up and vanishes with ray. To think that it took us years just to get a conclusion to that plotline too...

 

[DevilFox]

I'm mostly talking about important female charcters in the game being sexualized.

Those posters were tame.

MGS3 had The Boss zip down her jacket. Eva always pressed her tits in your face.

There was a reason for both. To show a glimpse of a woman's skin isn't automatically sexualization.

I know opinions and all but I'm 200+ hours in and I'm still unlocking, experimenting and trying out new shit within the game. Different strokes for different folks I guess, MGS5 ruined one thing for me. It's that it's very apparent now how much hand holding and restrictions there are to what you can do in other games.

Other games know what balance, pacing and good storytelling and writing is. Other games know how open world should be used and designed. Other games do not add useless things all over the place for the sake of it. I've been doing the same exact things in the same exact locations for hours and hours, if I finished it it's only because it's a MGS. If it wasn't, I don't know if I would've finished Chapter 1.

 

[Drencrom]

I think people are paying too much attention to the plot and not enough to the mechanics in trying to decipher (D-Cipher, missed buddy opportunity there Hideo) what Kojima was trying to say. I personally think it might be a commentary on modern gaming with all its bloat, flaws and cynicism obscuring the pure and true gameplay that is the heart of the medium. I mean, he puts together the most beautiful core gameplay loop, and then surrounds it by hitting all of the most shitty cliches from modern gaming with surgical precision:

-The big empty open world with hundreds of copy-pasted side missions to bloat running time;
-Box and plant macguffins to collect all over the map so the player always feels like they're 'achieving' something, shit, why not collect the soliders and cars while you're at it;
-The uninterested and underused celebrity voice actor (really should have got Patrick Stewart here to hammer the point home);
-Real life timer action; 'check-it-and-forget-it gameplay' with the deployments;
-Important story relegated to audio logs or menu items;
-Shoehorned microtransactions (this one's essential for the commentary to work, imo);
-A game design where 90% of the budget is spent on the ridiculously bombastic first two hours of the story and a couple of set-piece cutscenes (to be used in commercials), while the ending is completely neglected and pretty much unfinished as only 0.000001% of players will ever bother to see it;
-An entire section of the game delayed/missing at launch (Metal Gear Online);
-"Your own personalised home base / house / garage!" (Fallout 4 makes it look like this has potential to become the new "See that mountain?!");
-The obligatory frustrating escort mission;
-The 'tail and listen to these dudes' misson (the Ass Creed special);
-Marketing that gave away 90% of the story and made it look far more involved than it was;
-Constant outrageously over-the-top sexualisation of a female character; but most of all
-The overriding desire to make the player feel like the ultimate badass, and keep them engaged and 'immersed' in some ultimate male power fantasy. The entire story of the game is based around this idea. In your dreams, it's you. You are the badass. This is the big twist.

It's all there, save for a minigame for when Snake picks a lock or a hacking minigame at Mother Base. (That would have made the whole thing too obvious, really.) It's clearly a satire of modern games, and what it takes to sell a modern game, and, I suppose, what a publisher demands from and in a modern game. And how despite all of those issues - or indeed perhaps because of them - you can sell millions and get rave reviews on the back of hype, marketing and

Spoiler

solid gameplay

. Bravo Kojima. Bravo.

I'm sure someone else can make a better fist of that argument than I can but the guy's shift towards the Western zeitgeist here is unmistakeable and blatant, even if some of the points above are tongue in cheek / not perfectly serious.

Hands down the best parody post of Kojima/MGSV defenders in this thread yet and also makes realize why I'm so utterly disappointed in this game.

MGSV is essentially your contemporary, standard AAA open-world game with all its bullshit and flaws peppered with every single modern game mechanic and "feature" you'd expect.

Bravo Kojima!

 

[Alienous]

I think people are paying too much attention to the plot and not enough to the mechanics in trying to decipher (D-Cipher, missed buddy opportunity there Hideo) what Kojima was trying to say. I personally think it might be a commentary on modern gaming with all its bloat, flaws and cynicism obscuring the pure and true gameplay that is the heart of the medium. I mean, he puts together the most beautiful core gameplay loop, and then surrounds it by hitting all of the most shitty cliches from modern gaming with surgical precision:

-The big empty open world with hundreds of copy-pasted side missions to bloat running time;
-Box and plant macguffins to collect all over the map so the player always feels like they're 'achieving' something, shit, why not collect the soliders and cars while you're at it;
-The uninterested and underused celebrity voice actor (really should have got Patrick Stewart here to hammer the point home);
-Real life timer action; 'check-it-and-forget-it gameplay' with the deployments;
-Important story relegated to audio logs or menu items;
-Shoehorned microtransactions (this one's essential for the commentary to work, imo);
-A game design where 90% of the budget is spent on the ridiculously bombastic first two hours of the story and a couple of set-piece cutscenes (to be used in commercials), while the ending is completely neglected and pretty much unfinished as only 0.000001% of players will ever bother to see it;
-An entire section of the game delayed/missing at launch (Metal Gear Online);
-"Your own personalised home base / house / garage!" (Fallout 4 makes it look like this has potential to become the new "See that mountain?!");
-The obligatory frustrating escort mission;
-The 'tail and listen to these dudes' misson (the Ass Creed special);
-Marketing that gave away 90% of the story and made it look far more involved than it was;
-Constant outrageously over-the-top sexualisation of a female character; but most of all
-The overriding desire to make the player feel like the ultimate badass, and keep them engaged and 'immersed' in some ultimate male power fantasy. The entire story of the game is based around this idea. In your dreams, it's you. You are the badass. This is the big twist.

It's all there, save for a minigame for when Snake picks a lock or a hacking minigame at Mother Base. (That would have made the whole thing too obvious, really.) It's clearly a satire of modern games, and what it takes to sell a modern game, and, I suppose, what a publisher demands from and in a modern game. And how despite all of those issues - or indeed perhaps because of them - you can sell millions and get rave reviews on the back of hype, marketing and

Spoiler

solid gameplay

. Bravo Kojima. Bravo.

I'm sure someone else can make a better fist of that argument than I can but the guy's shift towards the Western zeitgeist here is unmistakeable and blatant, even if some of the points above are tongue in cheek / not perfectly serious.

Yeah.

I'm not surprised that the reception in Japan seems to have been more harsh than elsewhere. It really is a western AAA Metal Gear Solid game, with all of the pitfalls that entails. Fucking plant collecting. A primary focus on the American vocal cast. It's Kojima looking at games like Far Cry, Splinter Cell and Assassin's Creed and thinking "I could do that", and to his credit he does well at it.

It's interesting. I can see why Kojima doesn't consider it to be 'MGS5'.

 

[Stereogatari]

Hands down the best parody post of Kojima/MGSV defenders in this thread yet and also makes realize why I'm so utterly disappointed in this game.

MGSV is essentially your contemporary, standard AAA open-world game with all its bullshit and flaws peppered with every single modern game mechanic and "feature" you'd expect.

Bravo Kojima!

It's the best MGS in terms of gameplay and enemy AI. That's why it's getting the deserved reviews. It's nothing like any other AAA yawnfest on the market. Don't let your dissapointment in the story cloud that fact.

The level design and story are terrible compared to the older games. I agree. But the gameplay is so in-depth, variety, options, collecting soldiers etc.

 

[RK9039]

I think people are paying too much attention to the plot and not enough to the mechanics in trying to decipher (D-Cipher, missed buddy opportunity there Hideo) what Kojima was trying to say. I personally think it might be a commentary on modern gaming with all its bloat, flaws and cynicism obscuring the pure and true gameplay that is the heart of the medium. I mean, he puts together the most beautiful core gameplay loop, and then surrounds it by hitting all of the most shitty cliches from modern gaming with surgical precision:

-The big empty open world with hundreds of copy-pasted side missions to bloat running time;
-Box and plant macguffins to collect all over the map so the player always feels like they're 'achieving' something, shit, why not collect the soliders and cars while you're at it;
-The uninterested and underused celebrity voice actor (really should have got Patrick Stewart here to hammer the point home);
-Real life timer action; 'check-it-and-forget-it gameplay' with the deployments;
-Important story relegated to audio logs or menu items;
-Shoehorned microtransactions (this one's essential for the commentary to work, imo);
-A game design where 90% of the budget is spent on the ridiculously bombastic first two hours of the story and a couple of set-piece cutscenes (to be used in commercials), while the ending is completely neglected and pretty much unfinished as only 0.000001% of players will ever bother to see it;
-An entire section of the game delayed/missing at launch (Metal Gear Online);
-"Your own personalised home base / house / garage!" (Fallout 4 makes it look like this has potential to become the new "See that mountain?!");
-The obligatory frustrating escort mission;
-The 'tail and listen to these dudes' misson (the Ass Creed special);
-Marketing that gave away 90% of the story and made it look far more involved than it was;
-Constant outrageously over-the-top sexualisation of a female character; but most of all
-The overriding desire to make the player feel like the ultimate badass, and keep them engaged and 'immersed' in some ultimate male power fantasy. The entire story of the game is based around this idea. In your dreams, it's you. You are the badass. This is the big twist.

It's all there, save for a minigame for when Snake picks a lock or a hacking minigame at Mother Base. (That would have made the whole thing too obvious, really.) It's clearly a satire of modern games, and what it takes to sell a modern game, and, I suppose, what a publisher demands from and in a modern game. And how despite all of those issues - or indeed perhaps because of them - you can sell millions and get rave reviews on the back of hype, marketing and

Spoiler

solid gameplay

. Bravo Kojima. Bravo.

I'm sure someone else can make a better fist of that argument than I can but the guy's shift towards the Western zeitgeist here is unmistakeable and blatant, even if some of the points above are tongue in cheek / not perfectly serious.

One of the best sarcastic posts I've ever seen, nice work.

 

[Marty-esque]

So everyone was agreeing that the story was a huge disappointment but playing the game was incredibly fun. Now we've got to that point where people don't like the gameplay either.


Edit: maybe I'm not following. Are people just joking?

 

[Alienous]

So everyone was agreeing that the story was a huge disappointment but playing the game was incredibly fun. Now we've got to that point where people don't like the gameplay either.

I appreciate it. It's a really solid game, mechanically. I enjoyed played it; 60fps and great controls make it a joy to play. But there is typical AAA busywork that encroaches on the fantastic core.

The gameplay is great though, undisputably in my opinion, but it does have faults.

 

[Drencrom]

It's the best MGS in terms of gameplay and enemy AI. That's why it's getting the deserved reviews. It's nothing like any other AAA yawnfest on the market. Don't let your dissapointment in the story cloud that fact.

The level design and story are terrible compared to the older games. I agree. But the gameplay is so in-depth, variety, options, collecting soldiers etc.

Yes, it's definitely much better than your standard AAA open-world game by Ubisoft/EA/etc. I don't think it's a bad game or anything, I quite enjoy playing it.

But as a MGS game it's really bad and not exactly what I wanted from it, especially with this being the last mainline iteration of the series. All these shoddy things like real-time timers, repetitive side missions, barely no focused story and it being unfinished on top of that just completely sours it for me.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

So everyone was agreeing that the story was a huge disappointment but playing the game was incredibly fun. Now we've got to that point where people don't like the gameplay either.


Edit: maybe I'm not following. Are people just joking?

We didn't just get to that point. We've been critiquing all aspects of the game in here for days.

The problem isn't the gameplay. It's what the game does with the gameplay.

 

[RK9039]

So everyone was agreeing that the story was a huge disappointment but playing the game was incredibly fun. Now we've got to that point where people don't like the gameplay either.


Edit: maybe I'm not following. Are people just joking?

The gameplay mechanics are brilliant, but to me the missions/mission structure and the actual maps are not. I had to force myself to play through Chapter 2, MGS has never been a series where I had to do that.

 

[Drencrom]

Even the story missions consist mostly of glorified side-ops (extract this intel guy that might give us a clue to where we go next), the whole campaign lacks setpieces like the other MGS games. The campaign is mostly just a blur of you fultoning people and extracting stuff for some purpose and the occasional encounter with the Skullforces that play out almost the say everytime until you me skullface and then blow up his Metal Gear Sally.

 

[Marty-esque]

It's the best MGS in terms of gameplay and enemy AI. That's why it's getting the deserved reviews. It's nothing like any other AAA yawnfest on the market. Don't let your dissapointment in the story cloud that fact.

The level design and story are terrible compared to the older games. I agree. But the gameplay is so in-depth, variety, options, collecting soldiers etc.

I appreciate it. It's a really solid game, mechanically. I enjoyed played it; 60fps and great controls make it a joy to play. But there is typical AAA busywork that encroaches on the fantastic core.

The gameplay is great though, undisputably in my opinion, but it does have faults.

I agree

We didn't just get to that point. We've been critiquing all aspects of the game in here for days.
The problem isn't the gameplay. It's what the game does with the gameplay.

Ahh. I haven't been in here lately. Mostly been in the OT

The gameplay mechanics are brilliant, but to me the missions/mission structure and the actual maps are not. I had to force myself to play through Chapter 2, MGS has never been a series where I had to do that.

yeah there are hits and misses. A few great missions. Chapter 2 was a drag.


Well now I find myself agreeing with you guys. I guess I was reacting to the change from " story sucks, gameplay is awesome".

 

[Crypt]

That scene where boss gets down on his knees among a bunch of burned bodies probably wasn't anything significant to begin with. You can find the burned down village with the burning corpses and the vulture in the first Africa mission on the west side of the map just before the oil field.

I spent a while seeing if I could get it to activate there, but no go. They probably took it out because it would honestly be kind of narratively meaningless if this was the place.

 

[family_guy]

Yes, it's definitely much better than your standard AAA open-world game by Ubisoft/EA/etc. I don't think it's a bad game or anything, I quite enjoy playing it.

But as a MGS game it's really bad and not exactly what I wanted from it, especially with this being the last mainline iteration of the series. All these shoddy things like real-time timers, repetitive side missions, barely no focused story and it being unfinished on top of that just completely sours it for me.

It really isn't. It's "open-world" is terribly designed compared to most Ubisoft games. Ubisoft might do alot of copy/paste missions, but this game isn't all that different in that regard. What Ubisoft does get right most of the time is making you feel like you're part of a world where things are going on around you. MGSV's world feels like you're the only there until you get to a camp. You'd be completely lost without the map since just about everything looks the same. There's no real landmarks to get your bearings. There's no people walking around. I think I've seen maybe 2 guards go patrolling away from the camps a total of 3 times. MGSV has a terrible open world. The good parts happen once you get to your destination, but getting there is one of the most tedious, boring things I've experienced in an open world game.

 

[Stereogatari]

Yes, it's definitely much better than your standard AAA open-world game by Ubisoft/EA/etc. I don't think it's a bad game or anything, I quite enjoy playing it.

But as a MGS game it's really bad and not exactly what I wanted from it, especially with this being the last mainline iteration of the series. All these shoddy things like real-time timers, repetitive side missions, barely no focused story and it being unfinished on top of that just completely sours it for me.

I agree. It's a bad MGS game compared with what we've come to expect. In fact thegame has given me the urge to replay MGS3.

 

[SilentRob]

Even the story missions consist mostly of glorified side-ops (extract this intel guy that might give us a clue to where we go next), the whole campaign lacks setpieces like the other MGS games. The campaign is mostly just a blur of you fultoning people and extracting stuff for some purpose and the occasional encounter with the Skullforces that play out almost the say everytime until you me skullface and then blow up his Metal Gear Sally.

This thread is so weird. I get not liking the game's story, as a huge MGS fan im with you guys there. But the hate the gameplay get's here is sooooo out of left field and unwarranted. Guys. It's Metal Gear Solid. This game's mechanics and gameplay are so many leagues ahead of anything the series has ever even tried to achieve, let alone MANAGED to achieve, it's ridicolous.

"Every mission is the same" is a statement I just can't take serious. No mission is the same. Every single major base (basically, every location the main story takes you to) is more intricate, more interesting, more varied than anything the series has ever done. The mansion-location alone would have been it's own chapter in a previous Metal Gear, except that there would have been one way to get in, one way the guards would react and one way to solve the situation.

I love, love, love Metal Gear Solid for what it is - a cinematic, incredibly well told story with fun but sometimes frustrating gameplay elements - and I'm sad that MGS 4 was the last game we got in that vain. But at the same time I just have to appreciate the utter achievement that is MGS5s game design and how it not only outclasses any stealth game ever released, but also manages to be one of the best action games I have ever played.

Is it traditional Metal Gear Solid? No. Is the story great? Heeeell no. Is the campaign "just a blur of you fultoning people and extracting stuff for some purpose and the occasional encounter with the Skullforces that play out almost the say everytime"? Of course not.

 

[Lolcomin]

Yeah never put the words, incredibly well told story and MGS4 in the same sentence. It was just a bunch of fan service sloppily put together. So I mean if you think that that is a well told story, then lol.

 

[Anung]

such a lust for lust

This is incredible!

 

[dripdripsplash]

i don't think hayter rikes me anymore

What a loser.

Spoiler

You, that is.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

"Interesting" isn't a word I'd use for many of the missions. Mildly intriguing at best. They're hardly interesting though. It's like a bunch of the side ops from GZ got glorified into actual numbered missions. They're fine, but there's perfectly legitimate reasons to be disappointed by what the game does with its own gameplay.

 

[family_guy]

This thread is so weird. I get not liking the game's story, as a huge MGS fan im with you guys there. But the hate the gameplay get's here is sooooo out of left field and unwarranted. Guys. It's Metal Gear Solid. This game's mechanics and gameplay are so many leagues ahead of anything the series has ever even tried to achieve, let alone MANAGED to achieve, it's ridicolous.

"Every mission is the same" is a statement I just can't take serious. No mission is the same. Every single major base (basically, every location the main story takes you to) is more intricate, more interesting, more varied than anything the series has ever done. The mansion-location alone would have been it's own chapter in a previous Metal Gear, except that there would have been one way to get in, one way the guards would react and one way to solve the situation.

I love, love, love Metal Gear Solid for what it is - a cinematic, incredibly well told story with fun but sometimes frustrating gameplay elements - and I'm sad that MGS 4 was the last game we got in that vain. But at the same time I just have to appreciate the utter achievement that is MGS5s game design and how it not only outclasses any stealth game ever released, but also manages to be one of the best action games I have ever played.

Is it traditional Metal Gear Solid? No. Is the story great? Heeeell no. Is the campaign "just a blur of you fultoning people and extracting stuff for some purpose and the occasional encounter with the Skullforces that play out almost the say everytime"? Of course not.

Mansion felt like an extension of MGS4's Vista Mansion. It wasn't all that different.

 

[RevolverRoden]

So if mission 46 is the true ending, what's the regular ending? 45?

 

[RK9039]

Well the mansion in MGS4 had more to it than the one in V. There was a battle taking place there between rebels and PMC soldiers, and the mansion also had different ways to enter and sneak through. Infact those levels in South America were so good it became a map for MGO2 (not the mansion, but the power station before it) called Virtuous Vista. So yeah, even Code Talker's mansion wasn't that new or interesting but I'll agree it was interesting in relation to the rest of the game.

 

[Ludens]

So if mission 46 is the true ending, what's the regular ending? 45?

There is no "regular" ending since the only plot remaining was Eli's one, but that was cut.
The "true" ending is not a real ending too, since it closes nothing lol.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Big Boss needed Skull Face in MGS3, though

I find this is a popular sentiment and really odd considering it was some vague offhand remark about skull face cleaning up after him. That doesn't really sound like mission critical assistance. Maybe I'm missing something that shows how integral skull face was to operations snake eater?

 

[Golnei]

Shockingly, Sahelanthropus' model doesn't work perfectly as a costume.

It's like a bunch of the side ops from GZ got glorified into actual numbered missions. They're fine, but there's perfectly legitimate reasons to be disappointed by what the game does with its own gameplay.

Most of the main missions definitely came across that way. Considering how the Ground Zeroes missions were designated, that might have not been by design - like the way Chapter 2 was thrown together, I wouldn't be surprised if they initially were side ops that were promoted into main missions as deadlines necessitated a tightening in scope.

 

[Rymuth]

This thread is so weird. I get not liking the game's story, as a huge MGS fan im with you guys there. But the hate the gameplay get's here is sooooo out of left field and unwarranted. Guys. It's Metal Gear Solid. This game's mechanics and gameplay are so many leagues ahead of anything the series has ever even tried to achieve, let alone MANAGED to achieve, it's ridicolous.

"Every mission is the same" is a statement I just can't take serious. No mission is the same. Every single major base (basically, every location the main story takes you to) is more intricate, more interesting, more varied than anything the series has ever done. The mansion-location alone would have been it's own chapter in a previous Metal Gear, except that there would have been one way to get in, one way the guards would react and one way to solve the situation.

I love, love, love Metal Gear Solid for what it is - a cinematic, incredibly well told story with fun but sometimes frustrating gameplay elements - and I'm sad that MGS 4 was the last game we got in that vain. But at the same time I just have to appreciate the utter achievement that is MGS5s game design and how it not only outclasses any stealth game ever released, but also manages to be one of the best action games I have ever played.

Is it traditional Metal Gear Solid? No. Is the story great? Heeeell no. Is the campaign "just a blur of you fultoning people and extracting stuff for some purpose and the occasional encounter with the Skullforces that play out almost the say everytime"? Of course not.

Past games were like a puzzle box that you had to figure out an elegant solution. There is more satisfaction in figuring out I needed a remote controlled missle to get past an electric floor than come up with a way to clear mission #3682 of 'sneak here and extract Intel/prisoner' that doesn't involve DDog killing the garrison.

Don't even get me started on the Skulls 'boss' fights.

 

[SMZC]

It really isn't. It's "open-world" is terribly designed compared to most Ubisoft games. Ubisoft might do alot of copy/paste missions, but this game isn't all that different in that regard. What Ubisoft does get right most of the time is making you feel like you're part of a world where things are going on around you. MGSV's world feels like you're the only there until you get to a camp. You'd be completely lost without the map since just about everything looks the same. There's no real landmarks to get your bearings. There's no people walking around. I think I've seen maybe 2 guards go patrolling away from the camps a total of 3 times. MGSV has a terrible open world. The good parts happen once you get to your destination, but getting there is one of the most tedious, boring things I've experienced in an open world game.

The open ended gameplay is part of what makes MGSV an open world, and in that sense the game is without rival in the industry. Parts of the world being barren or lacking the kind of NPCs with whom you can't significantly interact in other open world games are all insignificant points when taken into consideration that MGSV is one of the very few games released nowadays that don't hand-hold the player throughout the entire experience, and arguably the only one where the player is given freedom to this degree in terms of the gameplay per se, with every play style being just as valid and viable as the next one.

The fact that MGSV is being even compared to the factory-like, uninspired crap that Ubisoft puts out year after year on the grounds that the latter games are better in trivial and secondary aspects is something to think about. The industry has been in dire need to move away from that philosophy behind game design for ages, and MGSV is one of those very few games that achieve just that. Despite of its flaws, MGSV is an accomplishment within the industry, and one game that pretty much any developer from here on out needs to take a long and hard look at when figuring out how to design a game.

As for the notion that many here are presenting of MGSV being a bad MGS, I couldn't disagree more. MGS2 was almost as unfinished as MGSV is now, MGS3 was hugely outdated design-wise even the year it came out in, and MGS4 featured little amounts of gameplay which, although good, meant very little within the industry since all it did was getting up to date in terms of game design. MGSV is the very first game in the Solid series to feature stellar gameplay all across the board, both in quality and in quantity (even MGS1 failed in the latter). It's also undeniably the first MGS since MGS2 that raises the bar not just within the series, but in the industry at large. For the first time in 14 years we can finally say that MGS is again worthy of being used as inspiration by other game developers, gameplay-wise.

The game has a very obvious lack of story and that was bound to upset a lot of fans, considering that the series has always been known for that. This change in focus from plot to gameplay, though, doesn't turn it by any means into a "bad MGS". Quite the contrary; in what it sets out to do, it's undeniably the very best game in the series.

 

[DevilFox]

MGSV has the best gameplay of the saga means nothing. The last one was MGS4, 2008, early previous gen. You're telling me that MGSV has a smarter AI, more fluid control? Hell I'm shocked.
Forget about the past and look at what we have, because AI is still incredibly dumb. Level design has highs and lows but this time they could've done so much more. MGS3 has more life in its maps than MGSV and its healing mechanics would fit perfectly here. We got a Mother Base just like PW, bigger and more beautiful and more detailed but so emtpy and good for nothing. Should we talk about game design? Because Quiet can literally complete a mission for you, you can also complete a mission by extracting everything and everyone.. yes it does cost something but not enough to discourage the act. You can even fulton armored trucks on the field, actively looking for you, how dumb is that?
Shall we talk about mission design, variety? About the endless helicopter animations or perhaps about the same voice overs repeated over and over and over and over (!!!) again, so stupid, boring, uninteresting. Do we need to talk about cinematography? Good looking, that's all, because the mute Venom standing there, almost never taking a side pisses me off like crazy. Story, writing? Yeah let's skip this one.
"But it plays better than MGS4" .. oh please.

 

[Spaghetti]

Other games know how open world should be used and designed.

uh...

i've spent a lot of time with mgsv, gtav, and the witcher 3 this year, and i don't believe there is a right way of designing an open world as you seem to think there is. mgsv is a functional open world, witcher 3 is an atmospheric open world, and gtav is a mix between both. i honestly couldn't say in good faith which of these is the right way to do an open world, because within the context of each of these games their respective worlds are a perfect fit.

 

[Dawg]

What a loser.

Spoiler

You, that is.

no u

 

[TheBowen]

MGSV on the other hand tries to paint Quiet too much like a good innocent girl whose never done anything wrong and sacrifices herself in the end to save a life. So her extreme acts of brutality in the opening do need to be justified in some way.
.

Well too be fair, its not really that she is explained like that. Plus her opening brutaility acts are that she was trying to be stealthy, but kojima probably wanted it more cinematic then logical

Silicon Knights

 

[Lolcomin]

uh...

i've spent a lot of time with mgsv, gtav, and the witcher 3 this year, and i don't believe there is a right way of designing an open world as you seem to think there is. mgsv is a functional open world, witcher 3 is an atmospheric open world, and gtav is a mix between both. i honestly couldn't say in good faith which of these is the right way to do an open world, because within the context of each of these games their respective worlds are a perfect fit.

what do you mean by functional

 

[SolidSnakex]

MGSV has the best gameplay of the saga means nothing.

It has better gameplay than any open world game I can think of. As its gameplay is actually designed around an open world concept. In GTA you're often given missions where you'll have to chase or follow a car and no matter what you do you can never get to that car until it gets to the point where it's supposed to go before it triggers the next sequence. There's nothing really open world about it in design as it's highly linear. There's really nothing like that in MGSV. Everything is working in real time in the game. So you have soldiers going between bases, sometimes taking prisoners between them as well. If you can find their route then you can stop them before they ever get to the base to lock the prisoner up, or you could just choose to tail them like a GTA mission and then take out everyone in the base to reach the prisoner. The gameplay is ridiculously flexible compared to pretty much any game whether they be open world or linear. So much so that i'm kinda dreading playing other games now.

 

[Salaadin]

uh...

i've spent a lot of time with mgsv, gtav, and the witcher 3 this year, and i don't believe there is a right way of designing an open world as you seem to think there is. mgsv is a functional open world, witcher 3 is an atmospheric open world, and gtav is a mix between both. i honestly couldn't say in good faith which of these is the right way to do an open world, because within the context of each of these games their respective worlds are a perfect fit.

I honestly feel like rockstar is the only one that gets them right. Both mgs5 and witcher 3 have open worlds that tend to get in the way for different reasons

 

[Haunted]

So if mission 46 is the true ending, what's the regular ending? 45?

I don't know where that "true ending" business even came from, as far as I'm concerned it's the only ending to the game.

Mission 31 is the ending of the first chapter, nothing more. Probably born from a misunderstanding with early reviewers not really getting the fucked up structure of chapter 2.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

MGSV has the best gameplay of the saga means nothing.

K den

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Best stealth gameplay in the series + the worst storytelling in one of the biggest narrative-heavy franchises in gaming = divisive reactionsssss

 

[SMZC]

It has better gameplay than any open world game I can think of. As its gameplay is actually designed around an open world concept. In GTA you're often given missions where you'll have to chase or follow a car and no matter what you do you can never get to that car until it gets to the point where it's supposed to go before it triggers the next sequence. There's nothing really open world about it in design as it's highly linear. There's really nothing like that in MGSV. Everything is working in real time in the game. So you have soldiers going between bases, sometimes taking prisoners between them as well. If you can find their route then you can stop them before they ever get to the base to lock the prisoner up, or you could just choose to tail them like a GTA mission and then take out everyone in the base to reach the prisoner. The gameplay is ridiculously flexible compared to pretty much any game whether they be open world or linear. So much so that i'm kinda dreading playing other games now.

Yup. I love that idea, not having to play tailing missions as tailing missions if you don't like that. This is hardly ever possible in any other game.

There's only one tailing mission which you are *kind of* forced to play as a tailing mission, the one about the secret meeting with the major, since triggering an alert makes it so that the major gets on a helicopter to escape the area. Even then, though, if you are properly equipped you can still blow up the helicopter before it exists the mission area, or, hell, do what I did and call in an air strike on the opposite corner of the map while the major is boarding the landed helicopter. However you look at it, the possibilities are endless. No other game does this like MGSV does.

 

[KarmaCow]

I don't know where that "true ending" business even came from, as far as I'm concerned it's the only ending to the game.

Mission 31 is the ending of the first chapter, nothing more. Probably born from a misunderstanding with early reviewers not really getting the fucked up structure of chapter 2.

I think it comes from the mission being called Truth.

 

[Haunted]

I think it comes from the mission being called Truth.

Well, "true ending" does have a pretty specific meaning in videogame parlance, which isn't really fulfilled here, so maybe that's where the confusion stems from.

 

[MegaSackman]

I think people are paying too much attention to the plot and not enough to the mechanics in trying to decipher (D-Cipher, missed buddy opportunity there Hideo) what Kojima was trying to say. I personally think it might be a commentary on modern gaming with all its bloat, flaws and cynicism obscuring the pure and true gameplay that is the heart of the medium. I mean, he puts together the most beautiful core gameplay loop, and then surrounds it by hitting all of the most shitty cliches from modern gaming with surgical precision:

-The big empty open world with hundreds of copy-pasted side missions to bloat running time;
-Box and plant macguffins to collect all over the map so the player always feels like they're 'achieving' something, shit, why not collect the soliders and cars while you're at it;
-The uninterested and underused celebrity voice actor (really should have got Patrick Stewart here to hammer the point home);
-Real life timer action; 'check-it-and-forget-it gameplay' with the deployments;
-Important story relegated to audio logs or menu items;
-Shoehorned microtransactions (this one's essential for the commentary to work, imo);
-A game design where 90% of the budget is spent on the ridiculously bombastic first two hours of the story and a couple of set-piece cutscenes (to be used in commercials), while the ending is completely neglected and pretty much unfinished as only 0.000001% of players will ever bother to see it;
-An entire section of the game delayed/missing at launch (Metal Gear Online);
-"Your own personalised home base / house / garage!" (Fallout 4 makes it look like this has potential to become the new "See that mountain?!");
-The obligatory frustrating escort mission;
-The 'tail and listen to these dudes' misson (the Ass Creed special);
-Marketing that gave away 90% of the story and made it look far more involved than it was;
-Constant outrageously over-the-top sexualisation of a female character; but most of all
-The overriding desire to make the player feel like the ultimate badass, and keep them engaged and 'immersed' in some ultimate male power fantasy. The entire story of the game is based around this idea. In your dreams, it's you. You are the badass. This is the big twist.

It's all there, save for a minigame for when Snake picks a lock or a hacking minigame at Mother Base. (That would have made the whole thing too obvious, really.) It's clearly a satire of modern games, and what it takes to sell a modern game, and, I suppose, what a publisher demands from and in a modern game. And how despite all of those issues - or indeed perhaps because of them - you can sell millions and get rave reviews on the back of hype, marketing and

Spoiler

solid gameplay

. Bravo Kojima. Bravo.

I'm sure someone else can make a better fist of that argument than I can but the guy's shift towards the Western zeitgeist here is unmistakeable and blatant, even if some of the points above are tongue in cheek / not perfectly serious.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone uses this post as a fact.

Perfection.

 

[semiconscious]

Best stealth gameplay in the series + the worst storytelling in one of the biggest narrative-heavy franchises in gaming = divisive reactionsssss

agreed. it's really no more complicated than this ...

you finish the game, feel like you had a great time... & realize you're still waiting to play a metal gear game...

 

[ViewtifulJC]

It was a pretty damn good Splinter Cell game, tho!

 

[Zombegoast]

So everyone was agreeing that the story was a huge disappointment but playing the game was incredibly fun. Now we've got to that point where people don't like the gameplay either.


Edit: maybe I'm not following. Are people just joking?

The gameplay is great until you play the older games and realize they do a lot more than MGS5. There are so many hazards in the way in the older games such as surveillance cameras, claymores, Cyphers ,lasers and even the animals in MGS3. The only thing you have to worry about in MGS5 are the soldiers and if they are wearing body armor or not but they can be solved through combat deployment. You just shoot your way through a base and Fulton whatever is there and exit out. That is pretty much 90% of TPP's gameplay.

All of the challenges are only in the FOB. But that mode has it's own problems being favorable to the defender and the AI straight up cheating by tracking and trying to shoot through while in alert and hiding an putting a time limit on top of all that.

 

[Alienous]

I wouldn't be surprised if someone uses this post as a fact.

Perfection.

Well, it doesn't seem like satire.

 

[Salaadin]

agreed. it's really no more complicated than this ...

you finish the game, feel like you had a great time... & realize you're still waiting to play a metal gear game...

It really hurts when you put it this way.

I know what KojiPro is capable of so my biggest hope out of all this is that the team lands somewhere good. Somewhere that treats them better than Konami. And we start seeing their names in the credits of other great titles. Maybe one day we will get that MGS spiritual successor.

 

[Rin Tohsaka]

I've managed to capture every animal except for gerbil. Just can't seem to find any.

 

[DevilFox]

It has better gameplay than any open world game I can think of. As its gameplay is actually designed around an open world concept. In GTA you're often given missions where you'll have to chase or follow a car and no matter what you do you can never get to that car until it gets to the point where it's supposed to go before it triggers the next sequence. There's nothing really open world about it in design as it's highly linear. There's really nothing like that in MGSV. Everything is working in real time in the game. So you have soldiers going between bases, sometimes taking prisoners between them as well. If you can find their route then you can stop them before they ever get to the base to lock the prisoner up, or you could just choose to tail them like a GTA mission and then take out everyone in the base to reach the prisoner. The gameplay is ridiculously flexible compared to pretty much any game whether they be open world or linear. So much so that i'm kinda dreading playing other games now.

Few missions are designed around large areas, not open world, few of them are interesting to play once and even fewer are interesting to play more than once, because at the end of the day what you're doing is always the same and AI is not smart enough to challenge you every time. This game needed no open world, only smaller but still large areas, always different, with unique military bases design every time and at least 100 less side ops but more different and fun. By the end of Chapter 1, doing all the side ops, I had seen everything already (actually, way before the end of Chapter 1). Yes the game gives you flexibility but the mission design is repetitive as fuck, hurting all the good work that has been done because I can play in n different ways once, but the second time, maybe even in the same location with guards in the same place, it's going to feel old already. As someone said, a 15 hours game stretched into 150 hours.
When I played a mission in a new location I was the happiest kid on the planet. Oh finally, a place that I don't know yet, a place to explore! .. there was no need for this kind of reaction with older MGS but not even with the recent The Witcher 3. How do you even play a stealth mission in a place that you know like it was your home?

K den

Thanks for your opinion.