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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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k, but what was the whale in the intro? The game goes to great lengths to explain that none of it was a hallucination; Volgin was actually there, those were all real soldiers, real fire, real everything. Are we supposed to believe that it was just a particularly vengeful whale that happened to be cruising by Cyprus that hijacked Mantis' powers for a minute?
 
ElFly said:
When they put the bombs on during ww2, people didn't know about dna sequencing and stuff; by the time code talker comes around, whatever little tissue sample they could get from The End and studied.

It is impossible for a microbomb to actually completely atomize the cobra units into nothingness. They thought it was enough during ww2, but later science made this moot.
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The MGSV twist was wrong - the player is not Big Boss, they're Hideo Kojima, explaining away anything that needs explaining.

You feel it, too, don't you? The phantom details.
 
matrix-cat said:
k, but what was the whale in the intro? The game goes to great lengths to explain that none of it was a hallucination; Volgin was actually there, those were all real soldiers, real fire, real everything. Are we supposed to believe that it was just a particularly vengeful whale that happened to be cruising by Cyprus that hijacked Mantis' powers for a minute?
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That was Venom-Mantis.

He destroyed the helicopter because it was a threat and it was a whale because of the Moby Dick thing they had going.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
The MGSV twist was wrong - the player is not Big Boss, they're Hideo Kojima, explaining away anything that needs explaining.

You feel it, too, don't you? The phantom details.
Click to expand...

The details nobody asked about.

MEANWHILE in another universe, they get a game called: MGS5: Les Enfant Terribles.
 
matrix-cat said:
k, but what was the whale in the intro? The game goes to great lengths to explain that none of it was a hallucination; Volgin was actually there, those were all real soldiers, real fire, real everything. Are we supposed to believe that it was just a particularly vengeful whale that happened to be cruising by Cyprus that hijacked Mantis' powers for a minute?
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I think that part was an illusion. The imagery of the whale, I mean. (The chopper still got rekt) They explain shortly thereafter that Venom's horn condition may cause him to see elements that aren't really there.

I also suspect the unicorn might be an illusion. The one Volgin rides, I mean. Maybe that's how Venom saw it, but maybe if Ocelot turned around while riding and looked behind him, he'd simply see the Man on Fire following by foot. Or if MoF isn't fast enough, something else. Something that isn't a goddamn unicorn, lol.

It's not clear at all what's going on there. It could be just what it seems, but that imagery (the whale and the unicorn) is really, really out there.
 
Neiteio said:
I think that part was an illusion. They explain shortly thereafter that Venom's horn condition may cause him to see elements that aren't really there.

I also suspect the unicorn might be an illusion. The one Volgin rides, I mean. Maybe that's how Venom saw it, but maybe if Ocelot turned around while riding and looked behind him, he'd simply see the Man on Fire following by foot.

It's not clear at all what's going on there. It could be just what it seems, but that imagery (the whale and the unicorn) is really, really out there.
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It is 100% clear what is happening. Mantis has a horn in that scene to show he's latched onto Venom.
 
Neiteio said:
I edited for clarity, but I agree the chopper got wrecked. I just mean I think the imagery of the whale may have been shaped by Venom's mind. I can't prove it in this case, though.
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That's likely. He's calling himself Ahab and the other guy is called Ishmael.

Though really it was probably because it's a nice scene for the trailers.
 
danm999 said:
Yeah some of the VO stuff in the game is....a weird read.

Like everytime I destroy an air detector.

"You destroyed the enemies anti-air detection!?"

And to be so reverent at that after I've done it 50 times gets funny.
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The most annoying VO was BB yelling "yah!" with the exact same tone over and over while on D-Horse.
 
The trailers tricked me into thinking Solid Snake would be in the game as well, but it was a mirror of Eli created by Psycho Mantis.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
That's likely. He's calling himself Ahab and the other guy is called Ishmael.

Though really it was probably because it's a nice scene for the trailers.
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Yeah, it looks freaking awesome. I wish there was more stuff like the fire whale, honestly.

Also, fun side note, that scene obviously channels Moby-Dick, but the chase through the woods that ends at the bridge is also a nice callback to Sleepy Hollow.
 
Berserker976 said:
But my point is, why are you so willing to go through mental gymnastics to make such a blatant plot hole acceptable, but also say that Big Boss surviving his vague death in MG1 and returning in MG2 was something that needed to be further explained?

The way you keep presenting the events of MGSV makes me feel like I must have accidentally slept though 3/4s of the game. You keep extrapolating things that aren't really implied in the game itself. You're making the game more interesting in your head than it is in reality.

For example: In MGSV Eli has a grand total, in the entire game, of about 4 or 5 lines. How are we supposed to feel or know anything about him? How do you analyze something so insignificant?
Click to expand...

I applaud you for trying, but seriously, Neiteio and other posters in this thread like him seem to have made up their minds regarding Kojima and the game. Any hole can be filled with your imagination if you want it to, and they seem to be doing that while convincing themselves it's completely clear and included in the games themselves and not just a matter of Kojima cobbling it together randomly. It's infuriating to read, but there's not a whole lot to do about people like that.

Though on one hand, it's nice to see just how much more the fans care about these games and their characters/story than Kojima.
 
Can someone summaries Paz story line for me? Got the second ending without ever seeing any of her cutscenes! I was under the impression that those were her bones in Venom's face as no one else was standing between him and the bomb!
 
matrix-cat said:
k, but what was the whale in the intro? The game goes to great lengths to explain that none of it was a hallucination; Volgin was actually there, those were all real soldiers, real fire, real everything. Are we supposed to believe that it was just a particularly vengeful whale that happened to be cruising by Cyprus that hijacked Mantis' powers for a minute?
Click to expand...

We see flying whales swallowing choppers above Cyprus all the time lol
 
Edzi said:
I applaud you for trying, but seriously, Neiteio and other posters in this thread like him seem to have made up their minds regarding Kojima and the game. Any hole can be filled with your imagination if you want it to, and they seem to be doing that while convincing themselves it's completely clear and included in the games themselves and not just a matter of Kojima cobbling it together randomly. It's infuriating to read, but there's not a whole lot to do about people like that.

Though on one hand, it's nice to see just how much more the fans care about these games and their characters/story than Kojima.
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I'm not a Kojima fanboy by any means. If you've read my posts on MGS4, you'd know this.

I've backed up all of my analysis by pointing out cutscenes, cassettes, even specific quotes that support stuff like what Skull Face is doing, etc. It's all in the game.

Stuff like interpreting the feelings of characters can be subjective, but you're talking about the sci-fi/spy-fi stuff, and that's easy to support with the material itself.
 
Sayad said:
Can someone summaries Paz story line for me? Got the second ending without ever seeing any of her cutscenes! I was under the impression that those were her bones in Venom's face as no one else was standing between him and the bomb!
Click to expand...

Scene 1:

Ocelot: Yo she's alive
Miller: SUPER alive
Ocelot: But she's traumatized and will only respond to things from Peace Walker
Miller: SUPER traumatized
Ocelot: Maybe try showing her pictures to shock her back, I don't know
Miller: Peace!

Scene like 5:

Miller: She keeps tearing open her scars.
Snake: Is it because I keep confronting her with the past despite having no idea if this is a good thing or bad thing?
Miller: I'm not a doctor.

Scene 10:

Snake: Hey Paz I find another picture to make you look at and--
Paz: Hey Snake. *disappears*
Snake: Oh, she was never here at all, I'm the medic and I have come up with this hallucination in an impossible space room to deal with the guilt of not finding her snuke and thus sending us all down this path to hell and she was just a little girl, this is terrible.
Paz: Yup.
 
Sayad said:
Can someone summaries Paz story line for me? Got the second ending without ever seeing any of her cutscenes! I was under the impression that those were her bones in Venom's face as no one else was standing between him and the bomb!
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Paz is just a hallucination.
 
Sayad said:
Can someone summaries Paz story line for me? Got the second ending without ever seeing any of her cutscenes! I was under the impression that those were her bones in Venom's face as no one else was standing between him and the bomb!
Click to expand...
Isn't it still possible to go back and complete her sidequest? You should still be able to do the Wandering Soldier side ops after Mission 46.
 
Sayad said:
Can someone summaries Paz story line for me? Got the second ending without ever seeing any of her cutscenes! I was under the impression that those were her bones in Venom's face as no one else was standing between him and the bomb!
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Not sure we know whose bones those are. I'd sooner think they were Chico's than Paz, just because Paz was already halfway down to the ocean when she exploded.

BTW, I just remembered: I made a video of the Paz scenes. It includes the three cutscenes and the fifth cassette tape that ties them together. It doesn't include all of the individual exchanges for each photo, but it hits the important beats.

I was experimenting with Share Factory. Neat lil' app.
 
ShockingAlberto said:
Scene 1:

Ocelot: Yo she's alive
Miller: SUPER alive
Ocelot: But she's traumatized and will only respond to things from Peace Walker
Miller: SUPER traumatized
Ocelot: Maybe try showing her pictures to shock her back, I don't know
Miller: Peace!

Scene like 5:

Miller: She keeps tearing open her scars.
Snake: Is it because I keep confronting her with the past despite having no idea if this is a good thing or bad thing?
Miller: I'm not a doctor.

Scene 10:

Snake: Hey Paz I find another picture to make you look at and--
Paz: Hey Snake. *disappears*
Snake: Oh, she was never here at all, I'm the medic and I have come up with this hallucination in an impossible space room to deal with the guilt of not finding her snuke and thus sending us all down this path to hell and she was just a little girl, this is terrible.
Paz: Yup.
Click to expand...

Ōkami;180231712 said:
Paz is just a hallucination.
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Thanks guys. So just hallucinations, kinda make me glad I didn't see any of them. >_<
 
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They kill.
The zombify.
They give superpowers (a collection of very distinct ones, like controlling bees and invisibility).
They allowed humans to speak in the first place.
They allow the should-be-dead to not be.
They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
 
Sayad said:
Thanks guys. So just hallucinations, kinda make me glad I didn't see any of them. >_<
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I'm actually sad that was the only hallucination in the game considering Venom Snake has a huge chunk of shrapnel in his brain and the game makes a reference to it. Before the ending reveal I half expected him leaving the hospital was all in his head.
 
Alienous said:
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They kill.
The zombify.
They give superpowers (a collection of very distinct ones, like controlling bees and invisibility).
They allowed humans to speak in the first place.
They allow the should-be-dead to not be.
They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
Click to expand...
They definitely stretch believability, even in a series as out there as MGS.

I think they'd be easier to entertain if there weren't so many diverse applications. Like pick one and stick with it, lol.
 
Neiteio said:
Not sure we know whose bones those are. I'd sooner think they were Chico's than Paz, just because Paz was already halfway down to the ocean when she exploded.

BTW, I just remembered: I made a video of the Paz scenes. It includes the three cutscenes and the fifth cassette tape that ties them together. It doesn't include all of the individual exchanges for each photo, but it hits the important beats.

I was experimenting with Share Factory. Neat lil' app.
Click to expand...

Venom stepped in front of the explosion, they were almost certainly Paz's bones.

Chico was in the back and died as the helicopter went down.
 
Alienous said:
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They kill.
The zombify.
They give superpowers (a collection of very distinct ones, like controlling bees and invisibility).
They allowed humans to speak in the first place.
They allow the should-be-dead to not be.
They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
Click to expand...

Nanomachines, son.

TBF, the ones that allow nuke mass production are not parasites, they are the metallic archaea. Another, separate, yet just as mcguffiny form of life.
 
digitaldiatribe said:
I'm actually sad that was the only hallucination in the game considering Venom Snake has a huge chunk of shrapnel in his brain and the game makes a reference to it. Before the ending reveal I half expected him leaving the hospital was all in his head.
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He hallucinates Skull Face at Mother Base. He probably hallucinates the imagery of the fire whale, and perhaps the unicorn. And I believe the last Man on Fire scene, at the base in Afghanistan when you retrieve his remains, is a hallucination. Read this post if you missed that discussion earlier.

EDIT: To be clear, I mean this is all in addition to Paz. Paz is the most obvious hallucination in the game. Also the most touching subplot and meaningful message.
 
Alienous said:
The parasites are a terrible McGuffin.

They somehow allow for nuke mass production.


There's no logic to them, they just let the writer explain whatever nonsense.
Click to expand...

The parasites do not allow for nuke mass production.

That is the metallic archaea, the game's other magic piece of phlebotium. These extremophile bacteria that subsist on inorganic metal can process weapons-grade uranium, rust any metal in an instant, cause a nuclear warhead to break down when appropriately triggered, and probably some other stuff.

Also the armor parasites can unleash a mist of the rust-causing metallic archaea for some reason.
 
digitaldiatribe said:
I'm actually sad that was the only hallucination in the game considering Venom Snake has a huge chunk of shrapnel in his brain and the game makes a reference to it. Before the ending reveal I half expected him leaving the hospital was all in his head.
Click to expand...

I definitely expected it to tie back into the central narrative a bit more than it did but it mostly stayed out around the edges of the narrative.
 
Neiteio said:
Isn't it still possible to go back and complete her sidequest? You should still be able to do the Wandering Soldier side ops after Mission 46.
Click to expand...
Wait! That's the trigger for Paz's scene? I thought I completed them all, as new ones stopped showing up yet never got Paz's first scene!
Thanks for the video link, will watch it later.
 
Hmm, the more I think about Venom having Paz's bones in his body, the more I like it. Adds another wrinkle to his hallucination (from the viewer's standpoint, not his).
 
Sayad said:
Wait! That's the trigger for Paz's scene? I thought I completed them all, as new ones stopped showing up yet never got Paz's first scene!
Thanks for the video link, will watch it later.
Click to expand...

You need one more photo, it is in the hallway just outside her room.
 
Be honest guys

When you heard Code Talker say that the cure turns the parasite from Male to Female and hints at a change in the carrier too, how many of you remembered the Quiet=Chico theory and thought "muthafruckers those conspiracy nuts were right".

I did, until I realized that Quiet was a girl before all the parasites anyway heh.
 
The more I think about it, the more I can only applaud Code Talker's VO for managing those torturous lines. As hard as it is to listen to, I can't imagine actually delivering such slow, laborious dialog, let alone minutes of it at a time and with it the near-entirety of MGSV's story. Crazy.

*salute*
 
ElFly said:
Nanomachines, son.

TBF, the ones that allow nuke mass production are not parasites, they are the metallic archaea. Another, separate, yet just as mcguffiny form of life.
Click to expand...

sonicmj1 said:
The parasites do not allow for nuke mass production.

That is the metallic archaea, the game's other magic piece of phlebotium. These extremophile bacteria that subsist on inorganic metal can process weapons-grade uranium, rust any metal in an instant, cause a nuclear warhead to break down when appropriately triggered, and probably some other stuff.

Also the armor parasites can unleash a mist of the rust-causing metallic archaea for some reason.
Click to expand...

Just awful.
 
Ruff said:
Be honest guys

When you heard Code Talker say that the cure turns the parasite from Male to Female and hints at a change in the carrier too, how many of you rememberedof Quiet/Chico theory and thought "muthafruckers those conspiracy nuts were right".

I did, until I realized that Quiet was a girl before all the parasites anyway heh.
Click to expand...

Ha, yeah.

In the end, it is nice they just let Paz and Chico die, and do not drag their shambling corpses into the plot.


edit: wait, was Miller treated with Wolbachia? He has a daughter much later.
 
Still thinking about "whose bones are in Venom," and I think they might also be the enemy pilots. The pursuing chopper crashes headfirst into Venom's side of the ACC.

Ruff said:
Be honest guys

When you heard Code Talker say that the cure turns the parasite from Male to Female and hints at a change in the carrier too, how many of you rememberedof Quiet/Chico theory and thought "muthafruckers those conspiracy nuts were right".

I did, until I realized that Quiet was a girl before all the parasites anyway heh.
Click to expand...
Actually, you first see her nine years after GZ, after Chico went down in the crash, so I could still see you entertaining that theory at that moment, haha :-)
 
Ruff said:
Be honest guys

When you heard Code Talker say that the cure turns the parasite from Male to Female and hints at a change in the carrier too, how many of you rememberedof Quiet/Chico theory and thought "muthafruckers those conspiracy nuts were right".

I did, until I realized that Quiet was a girl before all the parasites anyway heh.
Click to expand...

This was me during every Code Talker exposition dump

homer-leaves-head-o.gif
 
Bubbavelli said:
Venom hallucinated Skull Face on Mother Base? I completely missed that :(
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Yeah, when the Diamond Dogs are all staring up at Metal Gear Sally's glorious machine gun cock.

Venom turns around and looks back and Skull Face is there putting on his hat and looking at him.

The (heavy-handed, but imo effective) symbolism is they've had their revenge, but it hasn't brought them peace.

Game has an anti-revenge message.
 
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