Is there a correlation between mass shootings and gun ownership?
I don't see many of these happening in Asia or Europe.
Multiple fatalities reported at Umpqua Community College shooting in Oregon
- Thread starter TheLostBigBoss
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I don't see many of these happening in Asia or Europe.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I own a gun "because it's fun", but I'm also for stricter control and willing to surrender it if it was made illegal. I think owning one for safety is more dangerous and silly, since those people are the ones who keep them locked and loaded. I keep my ammo completely separate from my guns in an entirely different room, behind a different set of locks.
Maybe one day one of your loved ones will get killed in one of these shootings, would that maybe change your mind?
Gun ownership is not a right in the civilized parts of the World.
Veritigo_X
Member
Maybe some kind of empathy towards the people killed because of your right to own a firearm. Is something you like worth that?
That's surprising if true.
The thing is though that gun homicide rate has constantly decreased while there is a spike in mass shootings. I doubt any kind of firearm legislation will address these issues considering the amount of guns available. Besides, these people are willing to go through the hoops in order to acquire a gun, just to fulfill some weird fantasy in their heads.
So the media will have their clicks and people will complain about the lack of regulations but next week we move on, just like every other time. Another horrible day in America.
There is absolutely zero chance of any reform considering that republicans won the latest election and people are extremely protective of the 2nd amend.
So the media will have their clicks and people will complain about the lack of regulations but next week we move on, just like every other time. Another horrible day in America.
There is absolutely zero chance of any reform considering that republicans won the latest election and people are extremely protective of the 2nd amend.
No it can definitely change, but THAT'S not gonna do it.
Amory
Member
this seems an odd response considering the government has done "that much work"
What are you, some kind of radical?
We have more than one mass shooting per day in the US, on average.
Our rate of gun crime and suicide is so monstrously disproportionate to every other civilized country on Earth, that even you have to acknowledge something is deeply wrong with our current laws and culture in this regard.
What would you, presumably a staunch defender of the second amendment, do to try and address this problem. And just to start - do you at least concede that there is a massive problem?
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
Can you give me a source or citation for this? I want to use it in upcoming and inevitable debates with gun friends and I'd like to have some hard proof.
Yeah, it's a rabbit hole argument. Conservatives will point to "we need to reform our mental health system," knowing full well that: a) it's true; b) it'll take a far far longer investment of money, time and resources to do that; and c) they have no intention of supporting any kind of legislation to do such a thing anyway.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
We know hardly anything about the facts of the shooter.
Robin64
Member
So that THIS SHIT doesn't keep happening. Or do you think your "right" to have a shiny gun in your house is more important than real actual lives?
That people really believe the US government, the most prominent and powerful country in the world would fall into such a state reminiscent of an "end of the world" scenario, where every citizen needs to be armed to protect their homes and take over the evil government and ensuing state of emergency boggles the mind so much I don't even understand what kind of world those people are living in, and I'm from a third world country with massive, massive problems who probably needs that kind of armed response from the public to get its shit together.
It's like they are not aware of what the government is actually doing right now. How CEOs, lobbyists and corporate interests have taken over their elected officials and very rarely have their interests at heart. And exactly because of what you point out, how they are already doing so much scary shit that goes beyond the panic inducing fiction these people live under.
I often wonder, why are these organized militias not taking over the streets already, why didn't they do it when their financial system failed them and sank the country's markets and no one was held accountable. Why aren't they taking over the NSA. Why aren't they doing something about all the problems and things happening right now when they have so much power in their hands.
Someone on here once asked me snarkily if it was wrong to distrust the government because I questioned the validity of the right to bear arms, as if I was questioning his actual universal right to be free. But surely the government has already proven that you can't trust it, you ALREADY have a gun, and other citizens have millions of guns yet they do nothing about it, and I have a feeling they never will. So the excuse that having guns is some kind of backup plan for when democracy and basically society fails is hilariously deluded.
You like owning things that are solely designed for killing, and people suffer for it every year because you are a selfish prick that you wouldn't give them up to have a better country. That's mostly what that is about.
la flama blanca
Banned
Only one issue at a time. And also, let's have the dumbest people in society weigh in and affect policy on such a complex issue.
To be quite frank it's time gun ownership became a privilege and not an inherent right. There should be extensive background checks, classes to take and extensive training
That's one hell of a straw man.
That's one reason I hate the NRA even as a gun owner. They don't care about people's gun rights, they only care about the profits of the manufacturers, and ANY legislation that could damage that profit in any way is peddled off as an "infringement of rights."
SuperBanana
Banned
Then don't give them the choice. Do it because it's what's right for society. In Australia the conservative party was the one that enacted gun control. Not the left-wing. There was a huge backlash by conservatives and even political suicide for several of them but it passed and is now overwhelming supported.
New laws wont do shit, its all or nothing. These incidents will continue to happen until the US comes to its senses.
You don't have to be dumb. You could just be an asshole and disguise your clearly selfish agenda as you being ignorant.
But I feel like this is going off topic. Do we have a motive yet?
CapitalismSucks DonkeyBalls
Banned
If people in this thread don't notice...each poster is becoming more and more entrenched in their own opinion about gun control.
Now, someone extrapolate this to RL and tell me how easy making these changes would be. I want more control, but what we're discussing here is but a fraction of the hostility these ideas would be faced with in the real world.
Now, someone extrapolate this to RL and tell me how easy making these changes would be. I want more control, but what we're discussing here is but a fraction of the hostility these ideas would be faced with in the real world.
The arguments against gun control sound so fucking superficial and amoral when you think about it.
"I'm very sad that this people died but you see, gun control is very hard and I might want to hunt one day and also I really like shooting my gun lawfully and legally.
So if you take into account all of those things, I'm extremely apathetic about the deaths I implicitly support by refusing to accept any necessary changes to gun laws in America."
"I'm very sad that this people died but you see, gun control is very hard and I might want to hunt one day and also I really like shooting my gun lawfully and legally.
So if you take into account all of those things, I'm extremely apathetic about the deaths I implicitly support by refusing to accept any necessary changes to gun laws in America."
Of course it is, anyone can see it's a huge problem. I just have a problem with the "ban everything" people.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
https://twitter.com/feedthedrummer/status/649658868537143296
https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/649653937109385216
News editor from VarsityUK, University of Cambridge paper
Washington Post writer
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean we need to look at what each state is doing with their gun laws and adjust accordingly. I know I give New York *alot* of shit for their gun laws but at the end of the day we don't have many Campus shootings like this because it takes time and effort to purchase a handgun and that shit gets registered immediately.
The laws need to be refined. But each state needs to decide. Maybe this will be a wake up call for Oregon With that said obviously it's not going to prevent shit like this.
It'll happen. Unfortunately it'll take decades.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
RIP to the victims.
Nothing is ever going to change the gun laws. How many killings have there been? Nothing will change. We have to put metal detectors everywhere.
Nothing is ever going to change the gun laws. How many killings have there been? Nothing will change. We have to put metal detectors everywhere.
Veritigo_X
Member
Okay, how about the actual people that are being killed because of your hobby. Anything?
I don't entirely believe that. New laws that help close some of the gun control loopholes and in general make it a lot more difficult to acquire a firearm can definitely help things. I'm also taking this approach because I feel like it's a good compromise between pro and anti gun people. The issue is that we need to make it harder for people to get guns because it makes it harder for crazies to get guns, while fine law abiding citizens can still acquire one. If we did ever reach a point were the US said "no guns", I'd be okay with this too. I just don't think it's going to happen, sadly.
So you're saying reforming and improving our mental health system isn't important, nor a valid way to curtail shooting & suicides?
How would metal detectors stop a mass shooting?
What is your solution though?
I don't own a gun but come from a family who do like guns as a hobby and its nice to see gun hobbyist who think like this. Gun's primary purpose is a weapon, and probably the thing that really drives me nuts in these conversations is the lack of respect for what those guns have the power to do. They should be well regulated, it should be like a lot of hobbies that deal with more dangerous materials or tools to have proper checks and more liabilities for when things go wrong, but I don't want to punish people who do take just actions to be safe. I merely want to make it harder for more troubled minds from getting it on a moments whim.
Also in relation to statements on guns and regulation probably the absolute first thing that needs to happen is to get rid of the poison pills added into laws over the years related to gun control that the NRA lobbied for that makes regulating even the current laws we have on the books impossible. The reason people keep going to the extremes is a lot of right wing people who are gun advocates get so defensive about people asking for bans when they should be mad at the NRA who poisoned their hobby by making the system so broken to begin with.
SuperBanana
Banned
Because you live in a society and you need to do what's best for the country, not your own selfish wants. It's a gun, not a fucking kidney. Unless you're a farmer, hunter, or a cop you don't ever need a gun. If you are one of those 3 then you're still allowed a weapon.
Thing is the issue is very easy to resolve.
We need to take action to prevent this from happening. That means taking away guns from MANY MANY people. End of story.
You are mad you got your gun taken away? Sorry.
I pointed this out in another gun-related thread. We got three or four pages in before people started getting real personal and throwing out insults and getting angry, in the middle of a random discussion on the internet with no real stakes. It's starting to happen in here too.
Not that Kama necessarily does, but plenty of people think this way. You had assholes heckling the parents of Sandy Hook victims, telling them to their faces that their dead kids weren't worth losing their guns over.
If the government were to change the laws and criminalize your owning of a handgun, would you have any issue with it other than annoyance over losing a toy?
That won't work and will slow everyday life to a sludge.
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