Multiple fatalities reported at Umpqua Community College shooting in Oregon

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backslashbunny said:
The "niceguys"TM are the ones that go on shooting sprees.

Not sure why masculinity is so often tied to sexual prowess for dudes. I've never looked at a man that fucked a bunch of girls and thought, WOW WHAT A MAN. I don't know too many chicks that think that either. Must be a peer pressure thing from other dudes, which is silly.
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testosterone is a hell of a drug
 
Sanjuro said:
I don't think so in this situation. The off the grid nature of the school has basically had the news networks grasping at the same straw for a while.

If they had any solid information they would be running with it.
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I meant during the sheriff's press briefing. They surely know.
 
I'm watching CNN now and jesus christ, they're reporting these shooters as losers, beta males, yeah CNN just go ahead and be part of the problem.
 
Wreav said:
If there's one positive to 4chan existing, it's as a shining paragon of what not to raise my child to be.
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It's a distillation of internet behavior where anonymity is allowed. If the only purpose it serves is to show what people really think when they think no one knows who they are, it's done its job. It's not easy to defend, but I think it's useful in the same sense the CDC maintaining dangerous diseases in containment is useful. The problem of course lies in the fact that you inherently can't contain it and have it be a reliable example.

One would assume there's at least one poor slob at the FBI on 4chan 24/7, but there's so much bullshit on there you'd never have the manpower to both figure out something isn't bullshit and investigate it in time.
 
MadLaughter said:
It wouldn't solve the problem on day 1 or day 100, but EVENTUALLY the number would trickle lower and lower and there would be a cultural shift. If it takes 30 years, then fine. Gotta take that first step eventually.
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I can see both sides of this argument.

It needs to be done, action really would take years to change anything but that doesn't change the fact that action needs to be taken.

I'm super glad that I live in the UK for this very reason. I still can't believe that some people defend the gun laws. Guns aren't the only problem here, but they're enabling things to be much worse than they would otherwise be.
 
commish said:
Oh god, time to bail out on this thread. Once we go to "look at Australia", I know the thread is over.
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Oh hey, look who it is, the guy who provided no substance last time and actively failed to comprehend basic concepts once again crying about things he has no intention of engaging in honestly.
 
commish said:
Oh god, time to bail out on this thread. Once we go to "look at Australia", I know the thread is over.
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bro, engage in dialogue rather than just throwing up your hands with these drive by posts. I'm semi-pro 2nd amendment, but i realize that we need better control and we need to look to all avenues to solve this very real crisis.
 
Ihyll said:
Is the right to own guns included in the Australian constitution?
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Should it be in the american? It's obviously doing far more harm than helping anybody. How many tyrant presidents have you put down?

Marauder Shields said:
Tbf I don't think guns have ever really been a big part of Australian culture like it is the US.
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Then stop making it a big part. Fight it.
commish said:
Oh god, time to bail out on this thread. Once we go to "look at Australia", I know the thread is over.
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What is your reasoning?
 
It boggles the mind how authorities don't monitor the shit out of places like 4chan. That place is nothing but a collection of the fucking scum of the internet all in one place.
 
man so sad. RIP to the victims but holy shit whats it going to take to get people to do something about gun control.

commish said:
Oh god, time to bail out on this thread. Once we go to "look at Australia", I know the thread is over.
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i never post stuff like this but in this thread you have done nothing but complain about what other people say and even telling someone who was trying to explain something "so what doesnt mean shit what solution do you have?" when you contributed nothing
 
Jonm1010 said:
As a male that admittedly bought his first gun in part because I thought it was cool and just what men did here in the south, yeah, I think there is plenty of truth to it. A ton actually. If you are gonna hide behind needing a neatly presented research paper(of which I'm sure you would just poke holes in anyway) then these sort of speculative posts aren't for you.

Come down here to Louisiana for a weekend and I can introduce you to a ton of men who will gladly beat their chest about how their guns protect their family. A responsibility because they are the man of the house. Talk about their new guns with the sort of dick measuring vernacular that you often hear when arguing sports. How cool they feel telling a girl at a bar how they protect themselves and others with their piece. How alpha that shit makes them basically. Hell you see it here. I remember the last time this conversation came up we just had to have a couple posters pound their chest about needing to buy more ammo and basically trying to act all hardass about their gun collection and the fucks they could give for anyone pushing back against them.

It is an extremely compelling hypothesis. One that is compelling because we can in fact identify in gun culture an expression of the more universal male traits that seem to emerge in most human cultures.
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Alright, I disagree, but at least you're arguing your case unlike others.

Thing is, men all over the world struggle with masculinity daily. They want to be perceived as manly, alpha or whatever. It's not unique to America. I posit that state of masculinity in America isn't that different from comparable countries like Canada or most EU countries. Why would it be?

What makes America unique is how american men respond to threats to their masculinity. A man in Sweden wants to be perceived as manly, so he goes out and builds a house from wood or whatever. Or he goes and bulks up at the gym or grows a beard. Manly shit. The thought of buying a gun and bragging about it wouldn't enter his mind, because there is no american-style gun culture that glorifies gun ownership.
 
Demoskinos said:
It boggles the mind how authorities don't monitor the shit out of places like 4chan. That place is nothing but a collection of the fucking scum of the internet all in one place.
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You think they don't?

Either way, it's such a huge place filled with tons of communities that it's frankly offensive to imply that there is nothing of value there and everything is /b/ and /r9k/ - the board so pathetic that the rest of 4chan laughs at it and where the shooter posted - and the like.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8197804


Edit- is this shit legit?
hFANdfd.jpg
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Not to be the "pixels" guy but I'm fairly certain that's not a font CNN uses. Looks fake.
 
Jonm1010 said:
Something would be hard so the answer is to do nothing and let it continue?
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That's exactly what the country does do. Every. Single. Time. We'll have all the news networks cover this for the rest of the week, and then week it's back to business as usual. There have been more than two hundred mass shootings this year alone. In the US we're literally averaging a mass shooting every single day. Nearly three years ago more than a dozen children were murdered in school. Columbine is nearly 20 years old now. Not a damn thing has changed since then. And that leaves us in the same place every time. Just talking about what can be done while those that could potentially do something don't actually do anything.
 
Henkka said:
Alright, I disagree, but at least you're arguing your case unlike others.

Thing is, men all over the world struggle with masculinity daily. They want to be perceived as manly, alpha or whatever. It's not unique to America. I posit that state of masculinity in America isn't that different from comparable countries like Canada or most EU countries. Why would it be?

What makes America unique is how american men respond to threats to their masculinity. A man in Sweden wants to be perceived as manly, so he goes out and builds a house from wood or whatever. Or he goes and bulks up at the gym or grows a beard. Manly shit. The thought of buying a gun and bragging about it wouldn't enter his mind, because there is no american-style gun culture that glorifies gun ownership.
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it's a combination of several factors, including masculinity, mental health, legal reality, and america's own unique gun fetishism. it's not ridiculous to single any one of those things out for discussion so long as you don't pretend it's the only facet that matters.
 
From MMartinezCNN -> http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/01/us/umpqua-community-college-live-blog/index.html

"This is chilling, but worth reading:

Investigators are now looking at an online conversation that occurred the night before the shooting between a person believed to be the gunman and others in the Internet discussion threat, CNN's Deborah Feyerick reports.

The writer talks about planning to carry out a shooting.

Others egg him on -- suggesting how to do it and the type of weapons to use.

The responses are mixed, with some calling the writer a loser. Others call him a twisted hero. The conversations reference the shooter near the University of California, Santa Barbara, who wrote a manifesto and left a video a year ago. One participant in the chat tells the would-be gunman not to do it.

Wrote the would-be gunman: "This is the only time I'll ever be in the news. I'm so insignificant." "

Apparently theres a link to the 4Chan thread but I'll never post or click on it.
 
backslashbunny said:
Eh I would wager social conditioning also plays a role.

I know Anita Sark got a lot of flak when she criticized toxic masculinity, but TBH I think she had a point.

Is the main reason why women don't go on mass shooting sprees really because of testosterone?

(I mean, Japan/China has the same problem with women being more educated and pickier about the kind of dude they'll date, resulting in less female attention to males, but they don't go around on mass shooting sprees there.)


Also, this whole "mah rights" about guns in the US doesn't help either.
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Not it absolutely is. Men are conditioned to literally not feel feelings unless its anger. I've said it before and I'll say it again "Be a man" are the three most damaging words you can say to your son.
 
The same people from both sides will say the same exact things as all the other times this type of thing has occurred, and nothing will happen. It's beyond pathetic at this point
 
aeolist said:
the rich and powerful have very effectively manipulated poor white people into voting patterns that benefit entrenched oligarchies. they did this by encouraging base fears about the encroaching modern world and its immoral social ideals, and tying that to economic policies.

at this point the monster feeds itself and isn't really controllable anymore. gun rights are part of that culture of fear.
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Don't forget the need to scapegoat, but everything else you said is pretty much right. There are a lot of lower income and middle income white families that vote against their own self interest because they have been conditioned to think any sort of government program is for freeloading minorities. During the whole Obama-care debacle, health insurance companies employed this technique perfectly and it worked like a charm.
 
minor effort said:
Some people here are getting really, really upset with the consideration that feelings of insecure masculinity may inform the purchase, advocacy, and carrying of weapons.

Geo apparently touched a nerve with his post. Maybe it's more trenchant than you thought.
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Because it reads of the ramblings of a 13 year old trying to come up with something insightful to say:

Men in America have constantly perceived masculinity as in decline. Masculinity, the rugged individual man as they say, is a disappearing ideal. Masculinity is in crisis right now, as it has been for well over a hundred years.

Guns are a way for many American men to be "masculine" again. In a society that seems to be increasingly less and less "masculine", this is important to them. Interesting parallels can be drawn to other aspects of American culture, such as advocacy for maintaining violence in football, which also claims lives and results in life-altering damage to the body (on a much smaller scale of course).
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I"m sure there are men who point to Ernest Hemingway and say "I want HIM to be my role model". I'm sure there are men who undoubtedly beat their chest about their ability to protect their family from X because of guns.

Yes, there have been shooters who pointed to their social failings as a component to commit mass murder. Elliot Rodger, for one. Where does that explain why Adam Lanza did what he did? What about the shooter who defended his mass murder in Texas by pointing to the failing of America to protect Muslims about a drawing of Mohammed?

What about all of hundreds of isolated cases that do not make national news that do involve guns but not masculinity? The lines are a whole lot more greyer when you look at cases on the aggregate. Men suffer with masculinity issues in many countries. What makes America special that it is a significant reason?

At best, it lightly touches a component of power dynamics with respect to gun ownership.
At worst, it broad brushes men as violent savages who act like primates whenever they purchase a weapon.
 
Henkka said:
Alright, I disagree, but at least you're arguing your case unlike others.

Thing is, men all over the world struggle with masculinity daily. They want to be perceived as manly, alpha or whatever. It's not unique to America. I posit that state of masculinity in America isn't that different from comparable countries like Canada or most EU countries. Why would it be?

What makes America unique is how american men respond to threats to their masculinity. A man in Sweden wants to be perceived as manly, so he goes out and builds a house from wood or whatever. Or he goes and bulks up at the gym or grows a beard. Manly shit. The thought of buying a gun and bragging about it wouldn't enter his mind, because there is no american-style gun culture that glorifies gun ownership.
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Arent you just saying what I am saying though? Part of the gun culture and glorification we see in America is seeded in the sort of evolutionary drive toward expressing masculinity that we see all over the world? Just in other areas it can be expressed differently.
aeolist said:
it's a combination of several factors, including masculinity, mental health, legal reality, and america's own unique gun fetishism. it's not ridiculous to single any one of those things out for discussion so long as you don't pretend it's the only facet that matters.
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Bingo.
 
Demoskinos said:
It boggles the mind how authorities don't monitor the shit out of places like 4chan. That place is nothing but a collection of the fucking scum of the internet all in one place.
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Saying this as someone who used to browse the smaller dedicated boards, these boards, while vile, are still 99% normal regular human beings with no ill intent and just an edgy alter-ego.
The are also mostly young teenagers just prodding around to try and find the limits of what's acceptable.
 
Ihyll said:
A gun ban, at this point would be pretty much useless. The criminals already have guns, the militias already have guns, the crazies already have guns, the country is flooded with guns and a gun ban would be inneffective.

A buyback program would be a joke
Sending federal agents to confiscate guns would result in a civil war.

We made our bed and now we must lay in it.
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For these particular crimes though, there is a lot that can be done to prevent them.
 
Thaedolus said:
I remember when Columbine was a national tragedy that seemed to change the entire conversation in the nation about video games and guns...

This just seems like it'll be another Thursday.
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There's still people whose views on video games and violent films are the same as if Columbine just occurred. The first thing I think after I hope everyone is safe is that they'll attack media because the guy is young, it was at a school, and there's no direct motif announced already.

Every time a young male commits a violent crime they suspect he was influenced by media. Remember that correlation does not always influence causation. I hope I said that right. Don't you think someone is blaming Call of Duty? Halo? Half Life? MGS because he's a soldier?

I feel bad because people died needlessly. It shouldn't come down to taking someone's life because life isn't the way you want it to be.

Some of the people horrified by the events today at the school could have been on CoD last night. This happens more and more now and it's terrible. Absolutely terrible thing to have happen.
 
/r9k/ is weird. I browse 4chan basically non stop and I've never even heard the terms Chads and Stacies, and only seen normies used ironically.

aeolist said:
https://twitter.com/TheQuinnspiracy/status/649695501743337472



yeah women should just ignore online threats, they're just teen edgelords who never go through with any of it
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Also I had no idea that that stuff was a /r9k/ thing. Thought it was the video game boards that did that, but it got booted from them pretty fast when it was going on.
 
DoktorEvil said:
Because it reads of the ramblings of a 13 year old trying to come up with something insightful to say:



I"m sure there are men who point to Ernest Hemingway and say "I want HIM to be my role model". I'm sure there are men who undoubtedly beat their chest about their ability to protect their family from X because of guns.

Yes, there have been shooters who pointed to their social failings as a component to commit mass murder. Elliot Rodger, for one. Where does that explain why Adam Lanza did what he did? What about the shooter who defended his mass murder in Texas by pointing to the failing of America to protect Muslims about a drawing of Mohammed?

What about all of hundreds of isolated cases that do not make national news that do involve guns but not masculinity? The lines are a whole lot more greyer when you look at cases on the aggregate. Men suffer with masculinity issues in many countries. What makes America special that it is a significant reason?

At best, it lightly touches a component of power dynamics with respect to gun ownership.
At worst, it broad brushes men as violent savages who act like primates whenever they purchase a weapon.
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I'll repeat this one more time, criticizing toxic masculinity =/= criticizing men.
 
Henkka said:
Alright, I disagree, but at least you're arguing your case unlike others.

Thing is, men all over the world struggle with masculinity daily. They want to be perceived as manly, alpha or whatever. It's not unique to America. I posit that state of masculinity in America isn't that different from comparable countries like Canada or most EU countries. Why would it be?

What makes America unique is how american men respond to threats to their masculinity. A man in Sweden wants to be perceived as manly, so he goes out and builds a house from wood or whatever. Or he goes and bulks up at the gym or grows a beard. Manly shit. The thought of buying a gun and bragging about it wouldn't enter his mind, because there is no american-style gun culture that glorifies gun ownership.
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what about organized crime and gang culture. all societies have these issues, and i would guess that people who seek out these groups definitely have some kind of masculinity driven motivation. masculinity is heavily related to violence and dominance over other males... thats where this whole "alpha male" "beta" nonsense came from.

yes gun culture in america introduces a more violent dynamic in the issue of masculinity, but that doesn't mean cultures less obsessed with guns don't have their own violence issues related with masculinity.
 
budgets to monitor domestic terrorism have been continually slashed over the past decade. the FBI and DHS likely do not have the resources to monitor every threat posted to a chan.
 
so is it safe to assume that this is going to go on forever because Americans now accept it as just part of life and that it can't be changed? I'd expect there to be riots and protests and petitions to stop this from happening again but from the outside (uk) all I see is another "oh shit it happened again" set of commentary and then nothing happens to actually change it and stop it happening
 
My girlfriend just started going to UCC this week (classes just started). Thank god she hadn't gone to class today, but it freaked me the fuck out this morning. RIP to all who lost their lives, but of course, nothing sensible is going to be done to prevent these things from happening
 
So sorry to hear about this. My heart goes out to all my American friends and to humanity as a whole. I hope one day everyone realizes that guns are neither a right nor a privilege, but a punishment that we all suffer each day people are allowed to legally own firearms. It truly saddens me that some people will forever refuse to believe this fact. I hope the families of the victims will see a end to this horror in their lifetimes.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
and this is all based on paranoia of the end of the world or some uprising against the government which are very unlikely to happen in the next fifty years.
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I don't understand this. With all the stuff going on now with the police and black people, how can you possibly think the odds are that low.
 
Hoo-doo said:
Saying this as someone who used to browse the smaller dedicated boards, these boards, while vile, are still 99% normal regular human beings with no ill intent and just an edgy alter-ego.
The are also mostly young teenagers just prodding around to try and find the limits of what's acceptable.
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Yeah, but you can't really take the chance of flipping a coin if someone is an actual psychopath or just a teenage edgelord.
 
Goldenroad said:
So sorry to hear about this. My heart goes out to all my American friends and to humanity as a whole. I hope one day everyone realizes that guns are neither a right nor a privilege, but a punishment that we all suffer each day people are allowed to legally own firearms. It truly saddens me that some people will forever refuse to believe this fact. I hope the families of the victims will see a end to this horror in their lifetimes.
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The idea of 'guns as a right' just prompts laughter from me. I can't even help it.
 
According to a witness he held people down and asked individuals about their religion before he shot. Just awful. No idea what religion he was targeting.
 
Belfast said:
My girlfriend just started going to UCC this week (classes just started). Thank god she hadn't gone to class today, but it freaked me the fuck out this morning. RIP to all who lost their lives, but of course, nothing sensible is going to be done to prevent these things from happening
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damn man, that's crazy
 
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