President Obama Is Pissed (Oregon Shooting Press Conference)

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Was that terrorism? I mean, I suppose it is, but it's not the same kind of terrorism Obama is referring to since he talks about spending trillions in military to end Al Qaeda.

I'm guessing Obama meant international terrorism with what you said. And that's extraordinarily low compared to what happens with our own citizens.
 
Yeah it's nice to see important political figures speak their mind and go straight to the point without taking gloves. Although the fact that everything he says sounds like common sense makes it more sad than anything.
He's the most powerful man in the world and he can't do anything about such an absurd situation, within the borders of his own country. You can feel the frustration.
 
Was that terrorism? I mean, I suppose it is, but it's not the same kind of terrorism Obama is referring to since he talks about spending trillions in military to end Al Qaeda.

Why can't it be considered terrorism?

I think the Charleston Church shooting should also be considered terrorism.
 
You know what? Maybe the government should go "get their guns." Let's see if the brave warriors mean what they say.
 
Man, that was a powerful speech, you can really see how tired and frustrated Obama is about this still happening and nothing being changed.

Yeah, can't blame the guy either. it's come to a point (many incidents ago) where these mass shootings aren't even a surprise anymore.

It's disgusting, really.
 
Handguns are the problem. Handguns are never addressed. Boogie Man weapons are instead demonized

Handguns are both the coolest looking guns and the most fun to fire, but its still worth regulating in order to save lives.

There's no problems with allowing rentals of guns like that at firing ranges is there? Seems like a pretty ideal solution for that.
 
Was that terrorism? I mean, I suppose it is, but it's not the same kind of terrorism Obama is referring to since he talks about spending trillions in military to end Al Qaeda.

The Boston marathon bombing was like textbook terrorism. The purpose was to kill innocent people for political reasons.
 
Obama's speech was the definition of "real talk". There simply wasn't enough time for that to be some scripted speech designed to serve a cynical purpose... it came from his truth.
 
Handguns are both the coolest looking guns and the most fun to fire, but its still worth regulating in order to save lives.

There's no problems with allowing rentals of guns like that at firing ranges is there? Seems like a pretty ideal solution for that.

Yeah there is no reason why Handguns cannot be better controlled. In 2013 almost 6,000 people were murdered with a Pistol. For comparison 285 were killed with a rifle and 1490 were killed with a knife or other bladed object. Proper control of handguns could have dramatic effects on murder rates etc.
 
It's supposed to be. Checks and balances are built into the system to prevent one branch of the government from dominating the other and to ensure that change is slow, which is what the founders wanted. The originators of the Constitution did not trust democracy very much - what they wanted was a republic with tempered democratic power.

That explains it.
 
That explains it.

The Congress is also split the way it is due to historical reasons. The House and Senate are meant to mimic the House of Commons and House of Lords in the sense that one chamber represents the "regular people" and the other represents the "higher interests", although this purpose itself isn't written into the law, but was historically treated that way (James Madison, however, did distinctly state that the Senate needs to exist so that the rich won't get their money voted away from them).

They're also set up to represent both the people and the states as two separate groups, because while the states more or less act as glorified provinces today, during the earliest years of the US they were legitimately sovereign states that were simply in an alliance with each other like the EU. The original founding document, the Articles of Confederation, floundered and they needed to establish a stronger federal government through the Constitution, but there were debates between the big-population states and the small-population states about how to properly allocate votes. So they compromised and said that a bicameral legislature, in which one chamber's representatives would be elected in direct proportion to the people and in which one chamber's representatives would be assigned for each state, would be put into effect. This way the states were equal to each other (all states having two senators) while the democratic element got its way as well (proportional representation - this is also why tax issues have to come from the House and not the Senate, since consent for taxation comes from the people.). Initially, senators were even chosen by the state legislatures themselves rather than voted on directly by the state populaces.

It's quite a complex system and it has both merits and flaws.
 
The real problem is mental illness. Not guns.

As someone not from America I find this logic so silly. It's like you guys live in a bubble where other countries don't exist. I live in the UK and there hasn't been much in the way of mass shootings and mental illness doesn't only exist in America. It's a gun problem!
 
The Congress is also split the way it is due to historical reasons. The House and Senate are meant to mimic the House of Commons and House of Lords in the sense that one chamber represents the "regular people" and the other represents the "higher interests", although this purpose itself isn't written into the law, but was historically treated that way (James Madison, however, did distinctly state that the Senate needs to exist so that the rich won't get their money voted away from them).

They're also set up to represent both the people and the states as two separate groups, because while the states more or less act as glorified provinces today, during the earliest years of the US they were legitimately sovereign states that were simply in an alliance with each other like the EU. The original founding document, the Articles of Confederation, floundered and they needed to establish a stronger federal government through the Constitution, but there were debates between the big-population states and the small-population states about how to properly allocate votes. So they compromised and said that a bicameral legislature, in which one chamber's representatives would be elected in direct proportion to the people and in which one chamber's representatives would be assigned for each state, would be put into effect. This way the states were equal to each other (all states having two senators) while the democratic element got its way as well (proportional representation - this is also why tax issues have to come from the House and not the Senate, since consent for taxation comes from the people.). Initially, senators were even chosen by the state legislatures themselves rather than voted on directly by the state populaces.

It's quite a complex system and it has both merits and flaws.

Thank you. This has been very informative. I just looked up the House of Lords and in Canada, it is called the Senate. It's been useless for years up here (they usually just rubber stamp laws) and now the official opposition wants to completely abolish it (which would require a constitutional amendment) because they recently shot down some environmental laws on orders from the Prime Minister. I just figured that the Senate needed reforming but if the House of Lords really was made for "higher interests" or for rich people to keep their money, then good riddance. I understand the need for checks and balances but I think only the House of Commons is needed. The Supreme Court can do the checking and balancing, imo.
 
Man, that was a powerful speech, you can really see how tired and frustrated Obama is about this still happening and nothing being changed.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Something has to change and I hope people start realizing that.
When I visited my cousin in Florida this summer we hung out a lot with his friends. They used the same excuses Obama addressed in this speech and nothing could change their minds. How are they supposed to protect themselves without guns if criminals can still get guns illegally through black markets?
Boy, I don't know? Ask the rest of the fucking world how they do it? I fear for my life every time I go on the streets here in Germany. Criminals could shoot me at any moment. :/

Didn't want to put it in the OP, but I also found this.
Totally insane gun nut responds to speech. Like "I don't even know if this thing took place" crazy. This is what we're up against.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeD0eR3ol6c

This makes me extremely angry.
 
If this was happening in an Asian country no one would jump straight to mental illness but blame culture. Quite clear that something in American culture and consciousness makes this seem like a good outlet.
 
Powerful speech. I can't imagine how frustrating it is to be the most powerful person in the country and feel powerless over the issue for the most part.
 
Do you actually believe that most people that commit mass shootings are rational and mentally stable?

You're missing the point. Most of people who die to gun violence are victims of small-scale shootings. The mass shootings are simply the ones that get media attention.
 
He really seems frustrated at this, and rightfully so.

Good speech, but will undoubtedly fall upon deaf ears.
 
About this time mental illness/mental health is thrown around like a buzzword....gag me with a spoon.
These shooters are mentally ill and belong in an institution, don't get me wrong. But the solutions of "just get mental illness screens" is just plain ignorance. I'm going to quote a facebook friend and gaffer, and if he posted this in this thread, my apologies.

You want a mental health-only approach to preventing shootings, you're probably looking at a lot of involuntary committals to mental hospitals (which we don't really have enough of in the first place, so we'd have to build more). Most of these people probably won't need to be there, and boy would this be a blow to freedom and privacy. You'll basically require universal health insurance (so Medicaid in every state + more generous subsidies for exchanges) with full mental health coverage for all beneficiaries. You'll also have a lot more medicated people. All existing mental health professionals will need a lot more training to spot warning signs. And you'll have to get the high-risk people to actually go to therapy... no easy task.

Or we could just fix our gun laws.
 
About this time mental illness/mental health is thrown around like a buzzword....gag me with a spoon.
These shooters are mentally ill and belong in an institution, don't get me wrong. But the solutions of "just get mental illness screens" is just plain ignorance. I'm going to quote a facebook friend and gaffer, and if he posted this in this thread, my apologies.

It's an important part of those gun laws though. You can't deny that mental illness plays its part in this type of shit. I know it's not the only factor and it's important to have other reforms in law but it shouldn't be ignored either.
 
I've seen some graphs and I'm confused about something.

Has there been terrorism deaths since 9/11 on US soil? I figure there shouldn't be, or I haven't heard about it. I feel like some graphs are counting overseas military casualties.

Boston Marathon is one, but 9/11 was so many people killed it makes any attacks before or since barely register at the scales the graphs have to show the gun deaths at.
 
Interracial marriage had to be forced on the nation, it didn't become acceptable to a majority of the electorate until like the late 80's or early 90's. An entire generation had to grow up with it before the electorate turned. Gay marriage had to be forced, by courts and legislatures, on a lot of the country before the electorate started to turn. You underestimate the nation's collective ability to be total fucking morons a lot of the time. America gets it right eventually, but only after we've exhausted all other options.

I didn't imply get rid of the Supreme Court and Legislature. The tide ( and by tide i mean old bigots are dying off, and their progressive children were coming into power) was turning at a national scale on all of the aforementioned issues. And the reason America takes so long to get it right, a representative government that really isn't representative of it's people. Millenials are the most educated generation to reach adulthood (for a couple more years more until post-Millenials start turning 18) and you honestly think a true democracy wouldn't work? You think making a person's vote actually count won't shake people from apathy towards the current molasses we call a government?
 
Was that terrorism? I mean, I suppose it is, but it's not the same kind of terrorism Obama is referring to since he talks about spending trillions in military to end Al Qaeda.
It's terrorism. Terrorism don't to be international nor islamic to be terrorism. Ask Northern Ireland.
 
The day Obama has to step down as president is a dark day for you Americans.

I hope one of these days you'll get some proper gun control, so at least you won't have to deal with these mass shootings as much as you have to now, where -even to me as an European- it's becoming a "normal" thing to read about in the news.
 
Every time this happens I wonder what level of death would trigger a reform.

-An entire graduating class of +100 fatalities?

-Simultaneous NRA meetings totalling +300 fatalities?

-Attack on Congress and throughout Washington +1000 fatalities

There shouldn't be a numeric value we are just waiting to happen to force us to reform gun laws the way the terrorism changed America when we lost +3000.

It would have to be an attack on congress.
Edit: I know the NSA is reading this. Please don't raid me.

Congress probably has armed guards though so you couldn't actually attack them.

I guess armed people everywhere IS the solution :^)
 
Didn't want to put it in the OP, but I also found this.


Totally insane gun nut responds to speech. Like "I don't even know if this thing took place" crazy. This is what we're up against.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeD0eR3ol6c

And with that crazy stare he says "the guy is out of his effin mind" as he were talking to a mirror. Thank god I live in Canada. We have crazies too but they aren't as prevalent or have as much power in our society
or that's want I want ot believe
.
 
Was that terrorism? I mean, I suppose it is, but it's not the same kind of terrorism Obama is referring to since he talks about spending trillions in military to end Al Qaeda.

Yeah it's obviously a loaded impossible term to pin down. In context he was clearly referring to terrorism of the type the AUMF referred to. By any broad definition, that shooting in Charleston was "terrorism" but for the case Obama was making it falls under "gun violence threat" and not "terrorist threat".
 
The day Obama has to step down as president is a dark day for you Americans.

I hope one of these days you'll get some proper gun control, so at least you won't have to deal with these mass shootings as much as you have to now, where -even to me as an European- it's becoming a "normal" thing to read about in the news.

Everytime I read something Obama said lately I just wish he was the president of my country.

Dude is awesome, most down to earth president in history.
 
Great speaker, comes of as really sincere and honest about his belief in this. I know he'll get criticized for politicizing a tragedy, as he anticipated himself, but politics is exactly what is needed, and the only thing that can prevent these things from happening again and again and again.

Now is the time to act, yesterday was the time to act, let's hope he can get some motion around gun regulation now. Use that anger, Obama.
 
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