Nearly 160 hours in, MGSV still feels SO GOOD to play (controls, feedback, game feel)
- Thread starter Neiteio
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I think he is being /s, reference to the recent W3 vs the world threads.
That, plus entire genres like first person shooters or strategy games.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
yeah it's pretty awesome, I love the ballistics of the guns and heavy armor... plinking 13 headshots and only getting 3 kills =p ...even though that's technically a negative thing... it was odd how satisfying the sound and animations were hahaha
i really like the balance, too... like, you can have a smooth and quiet NL takeout of guards but also if you get caught with your pants down if you go after heavy infantry unprepared and then have to figure out on the fly that you can shoot off their knee pads, giving you a decent fleshy target. in general, i find the sounds of the game really satisfying... like panicking and almost dying, and then finally blasting a guard through his shield, or just the general graphical effects (the desert heat wave) and sound effects (high caliber firing echo) of long-range high-caliber sniping in afghanistan.
none of those examples are special... they're not .gif worthy like that awesome kick-from-the-ground to hold-up .gif... but they're probably also indicative of the everyman's mgs v experience, too.. and i think that's what's so good... the smooth cqc, the panicked firefights or long range shootouts, in general the gameplay just FEELS good ALL the time.
my two biggest complaints are too many 'hills' that you cannot climb/slide off of, and sometimes other action-able toggles do get a bit iffy, i've had a few times where I cannot pick up a body because it wants me to pick up a weapon off the ground, or no matter how much I try to jump across a railing, it makes me hang off a railing. or, of course, sliding over and over off of rocks while spamming Action because they look climbable.
but in general... running, jumping, switch from ground sweeps to combat stance... leaping through a door into aiming mode... climbing through windows into aiming down sights... the general range and accuracy of enemy guards, hit detection.... the way that bullets begin to fall over range (and lose impact force)... watching impact force bump, push, or knock over shields or armor depending on how much it is.. the general reload animations, just most of the core actions, they look good and sound good, smooth and distinct, emphasized, but they feel that want, too. everything has sort of tangible feedback that is satisfying.
i really like the balance, too... like, you can have a smooth and quiet NL takeout of guards but also if you get caught with your pants down if you go after heavy infantry unprepared and then have to figure out on the fly that you can shoot off their knee pads, giving you a decent fleshy target. in general, i find the sounds of the game really satisfying... like panicking and almost dying, and then finally blasting a guard through his shield, or just the general graphical effects (the desert heat wave) and sound effects (high caliber firing echo) of long-range high-caliber sniping in afghanistan.
none of those examples are special... they're not .gif worthy like that awesome kick-from-the-ground to hold-up .gif... but they're probably also indicative of the everyman's mgs v experience, too.. and i think that's what's so good... the smooth cqc, the panicked firefights or long range shootouts, in general the gameplay just FEELS good ALL the time.
my two biggest complaints are too many 'hills' that you cannot climb/slide off of, and sometimes other action-able toggles do get a bit iffy, i've had a few times where I cannot pick up a body because it wants me to pick up a weapon off the ground, or no matter how much I try to jump across a railing, it makes me hang off a railing. or, of course, sliding over and over off of rocks while spamming Action because they look climbable.
but in general... running, jumping, switch from ground sweeps to combat stance... leaping through a door into aiming mode... climbing through windows into aiming down sights... the general range and accuracy of enemy guards, hit detection.... the way that bullets begin to fall over range (and lose impact force)... watching impact force bump, push, or knock over shields or armor depending on how much it is.. the general reload animations, just most of the core actions, they look good and sound good, smooth and distinct, emphasized, but they feel that want, too. everything has sort of tangible feedback that is satisfying.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
So it would seem Japanese dominate third person controls and light gun while Western dominates racing, first person, and point n' click.
FPS, of course. Bungie is still killing it with that, all of Destiny's other problems be damned.
Strategy, though...those games exist through so many layers of abstraction I could never in good faith say that one has yet truly felt good. Well, maybe World in Conflict or DEFCON. Those sort of strike the fear of God into me in the right way.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Probably the best balance of control vs animation we've ever seen in the industry. Top notch work from KojiPro. I wish I enjoyed actually playing the game.
ChiefofCitadelSecurity
Member
No doubt, they got those on lock down.
I always wanted the Japanese to play with the fps genre more. Felt like they could fuck it up real good.
I'll be honest when I first read that lethal weapons shouldn't even exist I thought it was a joke post, but seeing your actual defended response I figure its worth responding to.
It seems like your core focus is simply main story missions, but you're ignoring a huge segment of the gameplay which is side ops. You don't get scored on side ops, and the penalty for using lethal weapons is very, very small (you can't fulton those you kill.) At a certain point, recruiting more soldiers shifts from a primary goal to a secondary one, where you prioritize quality over quantity. There were plenty of times in my playthrough where I would scope out a base and check enemies stats. I'd come across an enemy that was all d or e stats, and just on the spot take aim for a rifle headshot, because it much easier to just eliminate the enemy outright than work around stealthily taking them out. And this is also coming from someone who played the majority of my time as a "sneak up on dudes and hold them up" style player. Some of the biggest joy in the game was coming at side ops knowing that the tight restrictions of my non-lethal main story graded playthrough wasn't there any longer, so I could simply lure a group of enemies to a red barrel and fire at it, or throw a grenade at the base of the tower to take the guard in it out, or pop a pentazemin and acceleramin and just rapid fire headshot the whole outpost in one burst.
Your post also seems to focus on the game as it is experienced in the first playthrough, the first time through a mission. I've already put ~30 hours in since I got the final credits of the game, and playing around with lethal weapons has been an absolute delight. I've gotten incredibly comfortable with the game mechanics, and have shifted to a more fast and loose playstyle as a result, with lethal simply being another tool that I apply when it fits the situation. The missions offer a ton of replayability if you as the player get joy from fun execution of ideas for tackling these situations rather than simply measuring your success by the grade you are granted.
Like most other stuff in the game, there are pros and cons to the lethal choice, and if a player is using their full arsenal then utilizing lethal simply becomes another great addition to the layer of choices. I spent the first 10 hours of the game legitimately playing as tranq pistol/hold ups only, and I came to the conclusion "I think I actually hate this game. Its an exercise in frusrtation and being successful is far too demanding. " But after shifting my idea of what success really was, I had a much funner time with the game and I absolutely love it. I'm 130 hours in and still don't feel done. I see myself coming back to this game for multi hour sessions for months, and thanks to PC mods probably years to come.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Videogames. Not videobooks or videomovies. Yes, gameplay is most certainly everything.
That's a really limiting and reductive way to look at the medium. I would hate for all games worth to be judged only by their gameplay.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Sure, it should be the first thing that is nailed down correctly, but it's entirely reductionist to think that games shouldn't be more than just their gameplay. Having interactivity is what defines the medium but isn't the end all be all. Videogames are special because they can incorporate elements beyond gameplay in ways that movies and books can't.
Haunted
Member
The things that are preventing MGSV from appearing on my goty list are not gameplay-related.
A good critical analysis needs to consider the total package, not just the core gameplay, imo.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
It's a damn shame the level design, world design, mission design, bosses, and story were so lacking. Because the mechanics and "game feel" as you say, are nearly perfect. This could have been a GOAT, but it sadly was not meant to be.
World design I could understand, but I think overall the level design (actual design of the camps) was awesome. Theres a lot of variety and and the places were all recognizable. I felt like by the end of the game I really learned a lot of the locations and the various ways to explore and exploit them.
I think people judge Phantom Pain too much by how they think it(a mgs game) should be, rather than what it is. Its so unconcerned with its own story most of the time unlike MGS4, that it feels weird to see people dock points for that. Imagine if that was done for Vanquish or Dragons Dogma. Its like being a 'great game but bad MGS' just means 'bad game' for a lot of people.
themidnightsun156
Member
what do people dislike about the level design? are we talking about the open world in general or the bases? because i thought for the most part the bases were pretty good, particularly in afghanistan, some were utter shit but only a few imo
Asinine. People have said as much already, but if gameplay was the only thing that mattered, we'd all be playing as glowing diamonds in cubic worlds. Jesus, man.
Ground Zeroes has better level design than any one base in the game (and only OKB Zero and the oil pump facility approach anywhere near it), and said bases are connected by largely empty/meaningless land with outposts that might as well be in sumo circles for all that the geography matters.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Yep. Can't see that complaint but thats how the world works.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Some of them were decent, and even very good I'd say. My comment was on the overall level design throughout the game though. And I disagree on variety. For a game the size of MGSV, the variety was extremely lacking. And my comments on the level design in general were more of a comparison to other games in the series. I think it's one of the very strong aspects of the series that is often overlooked. But when it's not up to it's usual standard it sticks out to me a lot.
Hidden One
Member
Honestly I got bored at 45 hours in.
checkeredknight
Member
I'm 100 hours in and still not done with the story. I'm still playing because of the gameplay. I love the MGS games, but I always preferred the gameplay over that of story (which is the opposite of what most fans I meet seem to prefer.) Since story takes a bit of a backseat in V, it's honestly a dream come true for me.
The controls are tight. The only time I feel like I have to fight with them is crawling backwards, or turning around whilst crawling backwards. It's not something I do a lot. They feel like an evolved version of MGS4's controls, and they're superb.
100 hours in and I'm still developing and unlocking new equipment. Still finding new staff, skills and casettes on the battlefield. Still unlocking toys for deployment missions. Still having fun. This is good, isn't it?
The controls are tight. The only time I feel like I have to fight with them is crawling backwards, or turning around whilst crawling backwards. It's not something I do a lot. They feel like an evolved version of MGS4's controls, and they're superb.
100 hours in and I'm still developing and unlocking new equipment. Still finding new staff, skills and casettes on the battlefield. Still unlocking toys for deployment missions. Still having fun. This is good, isn't it?
Exploratory
Banned
The thread isn't about the general game its about the controls.
OP I agree. MGSV has the best third person controls ive ever seen and its not even close.
Yup. It probably takes around 200 hours to unlock all weapons.
themidnightsun156
Member
crawling backwards is much easier if you aim your weapon and then start crawling backwards, it gives you more precise control
Haunted
Member
I don't think there are a ton of people who flat out consider it a bad game. Maybe the most hardcore of MGS fans who just play these things for the story and feel disappointed/betrayed?
In my case, my biggest personal grievances with the game aren't even just things you'd usually associate with game analysis, like the poorly paced story, its typically bad writing or the absolutely messed up structure and economy balancing - for me it's basically a matter of principle that a game that treats women like MGSV does and that simply does not respect me or my time and tries to extract additional money with disgusting threat generation systems straight out of the most cynical and exploitative F2P mobile design playbook... simply should not be rewarded by appearing on my goty list.
Though I make sure to mention how good the core gameplay is in pretty much every one of these threads, respect where respect is due and all that.
Though to keep this in perspective, if you had fun up until that point, that's more than twice as much quality time as you would've spent playing through any of the previous numbered entries.
More than that if you want to include the new weapons they patched in. Say goodbye to your precious metal
How much do those weapons require in total?
AgentOtaku
Member
I like W3, but it controls like shit compared to this. They're honestly neck and neck to me as far as quality goes.
Bolivar687
Banned
Great write up in the OP. I knew from Ground Zeroes the gameplay would be sublime, it's just amazing to play.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
The gameplay is pretty much perfection. I sometimes go prine then aim 180 degrees just to see his stance change then slowly roll back onto his stomach. So damn fluid.
So its more out of principal than the actual quality? I mean I can understand that. I didnt buy GZ as I did not want to support this practice of selling demos for $30. It was pretty fun once I got it pn ps+.
I do think the bulk of the complaints are with the narative though, and wish it wasnt that much more important than everything else to most people.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Even removing story from the experience and judging the game for what it is, literally the only part of it I personally enjoy are the mechanics as detailed in the OP. The missions, locations, pacing, open world, and the Mother Base systems absolutely put me to sleep and I have no motivation to put in anywhere near the time it would take to complete all of it. Dragon's Dogma is actually a good comparison as I felt the same way about that game. Great mechanics completely let down by a bland overall experience.
Does that make it a bad game though? I don't think so, it's more complicated than that. Taken purely as a bunch of stealth playgrounds it's probably the best around. Unfortunately for me, that isn't enough.
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Agreed with this. There was some good level and mission design here and there, but it was never consistently near as good as the mechanics
You didn't mention realistic in the OP
. Personally I've never played a "realistic," third-person game with game feel that I'd say is above average. Maybe uh the Gears of War games.
I mentioned "realistic" multiple times in the OP.You didn't mention realistic in the OP
Personally I've never played a "realistic," third-person game with game feel that I'd say is above average. Maybe uh the Gears of War games.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
A positive MGSV thread?
I agree for the most part, it plays like a dream with the only exceptions being those fucking greased up rocks snake keeps slipping on and switching items that can be a bit of a pain.
Also, what is it with the fact either the witcher 3 or MGS V is mentioned, it always becomes a discussion between those two, even on fronts that have nothing to do with the thread subject? I know goty will go between them (I am #teamwitcher BTW), but please keep threads on topic. This one is about the controls, story has nothing to do with it.
Also, what is it with the fact either the witcher 3 or MGS V is mentioned, it always becomes a discussion between those two, even on fronts that have nothing to do with the thread subject? I know goty will go between them (I am #teamwitcher BTW), but please keep threads on topic. This one is about the controls, story has nothing to do with it.
TranceKuja
Member
The fact that the controls are so good / feel just right makes the repetitive nature of the missions / side-ops a lot more tolerable for me.
It's just so damn fun to play, regardless of what you do. I keep coming back to it.
It's just so damn fun to play, regardless of what you do. I keep coming back to it.
A positive MGSV thread?
No one has ver complained about the mechanics
But good mechanics alone do not make a good gameplay or a good game. On the contrary, they need great level design, AI and a good variety in order to really shine, in my opinion. I had more fun trying different approaches in MGS3 than I did in MGSV before I decided to force myself to do things differently, because the game didn't stimulate me to do so.That being said, they're enough to pull me back in the game.. also because I'm convincing myself that the first scene from the e3 2014 trailer is still there somewhere. Heck I even tried to play the Truth ending with the system clock at 1st September 1995 to see if anything changed. :'(
Agreed.