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[lastplayed]

It's definitely the best RPG I've played all year.

 

[K' Dash]

There is this awesome Camo, you cant use it.
There is this awesome new sniper, you cant use it.
There is helicopter support, you cant use it.
There is A TON OF COOL SHIT, but you cant use it, cause we will give you an A or less.

What the FUCK, I'm finding the people and crafting these and waiting a lot of time and you say you're punishing me for using them? Fuck off, I just don't give a shit, I'm going lethal, fuck your scores.

Snake controls like a dream, fuck everything else, I'm going to finish the game and then complain some more.

Snake Eater is still the best.

 

[Alo81]

There is this awesome Camo, you cant use it.
There is this awesome new sniper, you cant use it.
There is helicopter support, you cant use it.
There is A TON OF COOL SHIT, but you cant use it, cause we will give you an A or less.

What the FUCK, I'm finding the people and crafting these and waiting a lot of time and you say you're punishing me for using them? Fuck off, I just don't give a shit, I'm going lethal, fuck your scores.

Snake controls like a dream, fuck everything else, I'm going to finish the game and then complain some more.

Snake Eater is still the best.

It makes sense. Getting an S an a mission when you just engage invisibility, extract the target, then leave would be lame and people would certainly complain "getting an S in every mission is the exact same thing." The alternative is to not include the functions at all, or make them less powerful. I think of the possibilities they made the right choice, limiting your grade.

You can still use the stuff on Side-ops and it can be an absolute blast to do.

 

[Omegabalmung9]

Yeah I'm really loving the game. I think I'm clocked in at 80 hours of playtime and still sitting at story mission 16 lol.

 

[brandonh83]

I dont agree OP.

This game starts really strong, every mission is different. But after 10hours you have seen it all.

- rescue him
- eliminate them
- fulton this, that
- retrieve him/her
- and so on

You start asking yourself when will I have a story, even the main missions follow the same patern. Im now at main mission 43 and did a lot of side ops but they are all the same.

In my opinion this is the worst MGS game ever created in terms of story (depth), surprise plots and pacing of the game. The gameplay is good but after 30 sideops I have seen enough.

Agreed. The gamePLAY is good, but it's just not interesting in the slightest and the structure is terrible. One of the most disappointing games I've ever played. Some may argue, well, the gameplay is good so doesn't that mean good game? No, not really. The gameplay is good enough to where you have fun playing it for a while, but the structure of the game is so repetitive and boring that not even the good gameplay can keep it interesting or afloat for the absurdly massive amount of time it takes to see the game through to completion, and that's a huge problem.

It's just a bad game. If the pacing and story beats were better and more interesting to support the gameplay/length, that'd be one thing, but that's unfortunately not the case.

 

[DannyDanger]

There is this awesome Camo, you cant use it.
There is this awesome new sniper, you cant use it.
There is helicopter support, you cant use it.
There is A TON OF COOL SHIT, but you cant use it, cause we will give you an A or less.

What the FUCK, I'm finding the people and crafting these and waiting a lot of time and you say you're punishing me for using them? Fuck off, I just don't give a shit, I'm going lethal, fuck your scores.

Snake controls like a dream, fuck everything else, I'm going to finish the game and then complain some more.

Snake Eater is still the best.

Side missions dont punish you at all. And you can replay any mission at any time, if you really wanna use different items. Non issue, imo

 

[matrix-cat]

There is this awesome Camo, you cant use it.
There is this awesome new sniper, you cant use it.
There is helicopter support, you cant use it.
There is A TON OF COOL SHIT, but you cant use it, cause we will give you an A or less.

Don't get so caught up in S-Ranking stuff. The scoring system in this game is all jacked up and values speed over everything else, so S-Rank runs are best left for repeat playthroughs where you can skip all the cutscenes and simply sprint in guns blazing, complete the objective and then sprint out again. The bonus points you get for non-lethal play, no alerts and perfect stealth are utterly negligible next to the massive total you'll haul in for completing the mission in a couple of minutes.

Just use whatever you want. Murder everyone, use all the rank-restricting stuff you want, it doesn't matter. You only have to S-Rank a main mission once to get the Trophy, and Side Ops don't even have ranking screens. Not a big deal at all.

 

[DannyDanger]

yeah by far the worst part... i find myself spamming triangle a lot.

worse, once you switch to urban areas like FOBs, that tendency can get you in a lot of trouble haha and the windows that separate 'jump across railing' and 'hop over railing' are very poorly separated.

sometimes i get lucky and pull it off during pvp

but most of the time lol i just end up hopping over and over and over and over.

I even practice it... went into a FOB a couple nows and just try practice it but because the window to 'jump across' disappears even if you stop moving (so it's not just a small window that turns off if you move too far; it actually just blinks so it can replace the 'leap over' one) it's hard to time... I sort of can repeat it now, luckily, especially during pvp lol because I think i'm spamming faster and I just get lucky. But it's still just poorly down when there could have easily been just a context sensitive way (hard tap to leap, soft deep press/hold to climb over).

hold on triangle

 

[Alo81]

The bonus points you get for non-lethal play, no alerts and perfect stealth are utterly negligible next to the massive total you'll haul in for completing the mission in a couple of minutes.

Just use whatever you want. Murder everyone, use all the rank-restricting stuff you want, it doesn't matter. You only have to S-Rank a main mission once to get the Trophy, and Side Ops don't even have ranking screens. Not a big deal at all.

To be fair though, perfect stealth basically guarantees an S rank as well because you get huge bonuses. So basically, your playstyle needs to be lethal and SUPER fast, or perfectly stealthy for S's.

 

[klee123]

I wholeheartedly agree OP.

Despite my issues with other aspects of the game, the actual gameplay is simply amazing and IMO the new gold standard when it comes to TPS/Stealth.

It is tied with Soulsbourne as the best of this gen in terms of third person gameplay/controls.

 

[matrix-cat]

To be fair though, perfect stealth basically guarantees an S rank as well because you get huge bonuses. So basically, your playstyle needs to be lethal and SUPER fast, or perfectly stealthy for S's.

Maybe if you're completing bonus objectives, too, but in my experience it's much, much easier to go for time. I've perfectly stealthed plenty of missions and ended up with As and even Bs. The five and ten thousand point bonuses for no kills, perfect stealth and stuff pale in comparison to getting like 150,000 points for just sprinting in and out. It doesn't work for every mission, of course, but it's pretty effective for an awful lot of them.

 

[Vagrant]

Maybe if you're completing bonus objectives, too, but in my experience it's much, much easier to go for time. I've perfectly stealthed plenty of missions and ended up with As and even Bs. The five and ten thousand point bonuses for no kills, perfect stealth and stuff pale in comparison to getting like 150,000 points for just sprinting in and out. It doesn't work for every mission, of course, but it's pretty effective for an awful lot of them.

Well if you you get the no traces bonus it's a guaranteed S-rank. No traces bonus gives like 160000 points, the downside is it isn't possible on some missions. Like any that require you to pull the trigger button for any reason (C2W for example).

 

[VanCityGamer]

Woah, that's a lot of hours! Very fun game but it was quite repetitive. I was done with it after the main campaign and 50 or so hours.

 

[Vagrant]

Like I said, there are a small handful of bases that were actually fun and interesting, but they're few and far between, and none really approaches the complexity of GZ. I liked the design of the MB platforms quite a bit and wish they were worked into the story more than the one FOB tutorial mission. Likewise, I wish they had taken design cues from the MB platforms and created similarly complex structures in Afghanistan or Africa, but that never happens. Having a stealthy sniper battle or fight with some mist skulls or Walker Gear enemies in a location built similarly to the complex MB platforms would have been terrific and forced the player to both move and think in all three dimensions, but no dice. We even see what could have been a great playspace in the area right at the very end of the OKB0 mission but are only allowed to walk along a small portion of it before getting hit with a cutscene.

Even the village you rescue Miller from seems like a missed opportunity. There are only a handful of places where you can get onto the roofs or elevated walkways, but the majority of the rooftops are inaccessible, and you're prevented from making running leaps from one elevated area to the roof of another building. It also has a few interior areas, but by and large they don't really connect in a meaningful or interesting way, or even allow you to change elevations while in the interior (aside from just one building I believe). Compare this to my UC2 Tibet example, where you can dart in and out of interiors, climb internal stairs, pop outside to run across little elevated bridges, drop down behind walls and bits of rubble on the ground, climb the exterior buildings using them simultaneously to aid movement and provide cover, etc. That kind of playspace would have worked brilliantly with MGSV's movement and items, would have been fun to use to the player's advantage, and would have had a ton of opportunities for enemies to show up in unexpected areas to surprise the player if they tried to move too quickly without caution.

And again, those few areas you mentioned along with perhaps 2 or 3 more are basically the only areas that approach interesting design, while the vast majority of the locations presented are basically flattish swaths of terrain (with perhaps a hill or two) and a cluster of solitary, simplistic 1-2 room structures plopped down. Afghanistan had more interesting level design than Africa and provided a couple bases that allowed you to move directly from an elevated terrain position to actually dropping down onto the structures that you wanted to infiltrate. For the most part though, the terrain in the majority of areas either served to funnel you into one of a few different starting choke points, or simply provided a distant overview before you had to drop down to ground level in order to make your actual approach.

Okay so interesting well designed areas (with vertical elements), how many past games fit these standards you're putting out? Are there more in MGS4? MGS2? Let's take MGS 2, you got the tanker outside, the engine room, and the marine filled holds. You got the warehouse strut. The heliport strut. Arsenal Gear... What else? With this vertical element? Maybe the connecting bridges but those are really repetitive and don't really offer many ways through typically, certainly funnels.

I feel like this flat terrain thing applies to the vast majority of each MGS game. Hell MGS1 was made in legos and a 2D game for the way it played. MGS3 has the mountain tops. What else is vertical? Grozny Grad is flat. I guess you could say the interiors of the grannin design bureau or the place with the major patrolling inside grozny grad. But you're in disguise in both areas. The area with the end is just hills. So I gues you have the mountains and the ladder sequence. And sneaking through Miller's village has a lot of paths even if they're outside, that are fun to sneak through. I feel like there's goal post moving here. "No vertical areas"... "Well not enough vertical areas" etc. The amount of interesting and varied locales is pretty frequent in MGSV and I think people get distracted by the fact, in addition to big complex places, it has small ones spread out too.

As for Miller's village I've found at least three-four unique ways to get through it. Not all of them involve rooftops or inside buildings, but the paths between them are still varied and set up for great sneaking. Africa has the mines, the abandoned village, the mansion, lufwa valley, nova braga, the white mamba village, the oil refinery, the guardpost at the beginning of the voices mission. That's off the top of my head. Each of those areas has numerous ways in and around them. They all have some tweak with elevation. either in the facility itself or as a means of entering. And that's just Africa, which is by design flatter.

 

[Neiteio]

Okay so interesting well designed areas (with vertical elements), how many past games fit these standards you're putting out? Are there more in MGS4? MGS2? Let's take MGS 2, you got the tanker outside, the engine room, and the marine filled holds. You got the warehouse strut. The heliport strut. Arsenal Gear... What else? With this vertical element? Maybe the connecting bridges but those are really repetitive and don't really offer many ways through typically, certainly funnels.

I feel like this flat terrain thing applies to the vast majority of each MGS game. Hell MGS1 was made in legos and a 2D game for the way it played. MGS3 has the mountain tops. What else is vertical? Grozny Grad is flat. I guess you could say the interiors of the grannin design bureau or the place with the major patrolling inside grozny grad. But you're in disguise in both areas. The area with the end is just hills. So I gues you have the mountains and the ladder sequence. And sneaking through Miller's village has a lot of paths even if they're outside, that are fun to sneak through. I feel like there's goal post moving here. "No vertical areas"... "Well not enough vertical areas" etc. The amount of interesting and varied locales is pretty frequent in MGSV and I think people get distracted by the fact in addition to big complex places it has small ones spread out too in addition.

As for Miller's village I've found at least three-four unique ways to get through it. Not all of them involve rooftops or inside buildings, but the paths between them are still varied and set up for great sneaking. Africa has the mines, the abandoned village, the mansion, lufwa valley, nova braga, the white mamba village, the oil refinery, the guardpost at the beginning of the voices mission. That's off the top of my head. Each of those areas has numerous ways in and around them. They all have some tweak with elevation. either in the facility itself or as a means of entering. And that's just Africa, which is by design flatter.

Yeah, I'm not getting Springfoot's complaints about the level design in MGSV. There are so many ways to approach each level, so many corners to watch, blind spots to manage, etc. Even the "flat" environments are not receiving proper credit here; the landscaping is layered with abundant natural coverage, overlapping ridges, etc., so that even in sniper-infested locations you can slip past enemy sight-lines, misdirect suspicious enemies, etc. And thumbing through the guide, I'm reminded those "flat" environments are a minority compared to the others, which focus more on verticality and/or densely clustered structures where you have to constantly watch your corners and manage blind spots that prevent you from marking every enemy in advance.

Also, it should be noted that GZ is not like some shining beacon of verticality. It had like one two-story base with two halls, and a half-dozen watchtowers on the outside. Beyond that it was relatively flat. Not to mention GZ was the entirety of that game. I suspect that if people replayed many of the installations in TPP as much as they replayed Camp Omega in GZ, they'd have a similar appreciation for the many approaches.

Like one of my favorites, the terraced hillside village (NOT the one with Miller, although that one is also exceptional). This level is completely different depending on whether you approach from the top and go down or the bottom and go up, or whether you approach from the right or left. You have a pretzel-like network of paths sandwiched between buildings with wraparound decks and overlapping rooftops, standing on struts on a steep hillside (the underside of the struts also affording coverage). This place is downright harrowing when the adaptive enemies there start incorporating snipers on the rooftops and shotguns around corners. It's great, and especially satisfying to snipe the lights from one of the many overlooks (but take care not to fall to your doom!).

 

[PensOwl]

GZ isn't more vertical, but one of the reason it might feel that way is because there's a lot of towers and you can climb damn near everything that has a roof. A lot of the small houses in TPP like in Wialo Village or Bwala ya Masa Snake just refuses to climb.

 

[Neiteio]

GZ isn't more vertical, but one of the reason it might feel that way is because there's a lot of towers and you can climb damn near everything that has a roof. A lot of the small houses in TPP like in Wialo Village or Bwala ya Masa Snake just refuses to climb.

I'd say many of the Camp Omega-sized levels in TPP have similar amounts of climbable structures. You're referring to the sheds and barracks in GZ; if you look at the big towns, many of the similar-sized buildings have pallets stacked on their sides you can use to climb to the top, and from there you can sometimes walk across beams or archways to reach other structures, or simply jump the gap. I remember a building or two even have rock-climbing cracks on the back.

 

[Maddocks]

Getting S rank is all missions was worth it for me because now I get to replay it however I want without worrying about what rank I get or time. Screwing around in a old mission with the Fulton d walker or calling in sleep airstrikes is just fun to do.

 

[Neiteio]

Getting S rank is all missions was worth it for me because now I get to replay it however I want without worrying about what rank I get or time. Screwing around in a old mission with the Fulton d walker or calling in sleep airstrikes is just fun to do.

Sleep airstrikes??

Maybe I have this feature and I didn't know about it. That sounds amazing.

I think I have the Fulton cannon for D-Walker but I haven't tried it yet.

Also, isn't there a way to control the weather? Haven't tried it yet.

Man, this game, lol.

 

[poodpick]

Game definitely needs more extreme and subsistence missions. There isn't a single mission that is more difficult than GZ on hard.

 

[Vagrant]

Yeah, I'm not getting Springfoot's complaints about the level design in MGSV. There are so many ways to approach each level, so many corners to watch, blind spots to manage, etc. Even the "flat" environments are not receiving proper credit here; the landscaping is layered with abundant natural coverage, overlapping ridges, etc., so that even in sniper-infested locations you can slip past enemy sight-lines, misdirect suspicious enemies, etc. And thumbing through the guide, I'm reminded those "flat" environments are a minority compared to the others, which focus more on verticality and/or densely clustered structures where you have to constantly watch your corners and manage blind spots that prevent you from marking every enemy in advance.

Also, it should be noted that GZ is not like some shining beacon of verticality. It had like one two-story base with two halls, and a half-dozen watchtowers on the outside. Beyond that it was relatively flat. Not to mention GZ was the entirety of that game. I suspect that if people replayed many of the installations in TPP as much as they replayed Camp Omega in GZ, they'd have a similar appreciation for the many approaches.

Like one of my favorites, the terraced hillside village (NOT the one with Miller, although that one is also exceptional). This level is completely different depending on whether you approach from the top and go down or the bottom and go up, or whether you approach from the right or left. You have a pretzel-like network of paths sandwiched between buildings with wraparound decks and overlapping rooftops, standing on struts on a steep hillside (the underside of the struts also affording coverage). This place is downright harrowing when the adaptive enemies there start incorporating snipers on the rooftops and shotguns around corners. It's great, and especially satisfying to snipe the lights from one of the many overlooks (but take care not to fall to your doom!).

One thing I want to add, where they put shrubbery and grass in MGSV is great. It's like a bunch of mini paths hinting where you should crawl. That terraced village you mention has a great example of this you just reminded me of. Once snipers get posted on the left and right sides, you can crawl through along a carefully placed, but easily missed path of grass to sneak up right up to the one on the left. Was surprised how deliberately it was designed, yet so subtle.

Oh the day night cycle adds a whole new factor to what paths and areas are safe to sneak through. At dusk an area might be covered in shadow and be a new ideal path. At night the path may be under a bright light that will give you away. It's neat.

Check the support tab for sleep airstrikes and weather changing. The game doesn't tell you when you unlock them. Well not in a really noticeable way.

 

[Fallout-NL]

What's your current "gold standard" for this?

Yeah, MGS5. Like you said, it's got a pretty much perfect balance. Feels incredible.

 

[erlim]

You would think, if Konami liked money, they'd just reuse the mechanics and engine over and over and over every year like Assassins Creed.

 

[PensOwl]

I'd say many of the Camp Omega-sized levels in TPP have similar amounts of climbable structures. You're referring to the sheds and barracks in GZ; if you look at the big towns, many of the similar-sized buildings have pallets stacked on their sides you can use to climb to the top, and from there you can sometimes walk across beams or archways to reach other structures, or simply jump the gap. I remember a building or two even have rock-climbing cracks on the back.

Even with the pallets, some of them won't let you climb on top, while others do. Some of them have this inclined cart that makes you think you can climb up using it, but you can't. Most large buildings have a way to the top, and most of the buildings in the bases against hills like where Miller was held you can get on top. Most structures in Afghanistan Base Camp you can climb, same with OKB Zero. The buildings other than the hangers surrounding the airport you can't though, same with the oilfield entrance buildings. I don't think you can climb on anything in Bampeve Plantation. Anyways this has become a rambling list, but it really depends on where you are.

 

[Neiteio]

Even with the pallets, some of them won't let you climb on top, while others do. Some of them have this inclined cart that makes you think you can climb up using it, but you can't. Most large buildings have a way to the top, and most of the buildings in the bases against hills like where Miller was held you can get on top. Most structures in Afghanistan Base Camp you can climb, same with OKB Zero. The buildings other than the hangers surrounding the airport you can't though, same with the oilfield entrance buildings. I don't think you can climb on anything in Bampeve Plantation. Anyways this has become a rambling list, but it really depends on where you are.

I can see what you mean. It's definitely a case where some structures allow it and others don't, and it essentially comes down to whether they have the right kind of crates and pallets to climb up the side.

 

[Thrakier]

You are right. The controls are the best in the series and probably the only thing which is good in MGSV.

 

[Neiteio]

You are right. The controls are the best in the series and probably the only thing which is good in MGSV.

Well, as we've been discussing the past few pages, the player mechanics, level design, optional tasks (eavesdropping, etc), enemy AI, sandbox shenanigans, weapons and tools, buddy mechanics and support services, attention to detail, etc., are also excellent. And of course the art direction, animation, graphics, performance, sound design, music, voice acting, cinematography, etc., is great, as well. The unconventional narrative structure is where it gets divisive, but it's not without its fans.

MGSV is a great game. I can understand people wanting a more traditional MGS, but by any reasonable standard MGSV excels. Its "game feel" is a new standard for realistic third-person games, but it also does many other things exceptionally well. And I love the fact it allows you to play out all of the best moments, feeling like a Bond movie one moment and Rambo the next.

 

[PensOwl]

I can see what you mean. It's definitely a case where some structures allow it and others don't, and it essentially comes down to whether they have the right kind of crates and pallets to climb up the side.

Now that I think about it, there's two ammo sheds you can't climb in GZ- the one in the admin building that houses the special blue light rifle in Deja Vu, and the one closest to the admin building gate. Everything else you can climb though, including the tiny guard posts and those storage buildings where the bald guy and the asian dude meet in the intel aquisition mission.

 

[Thrakier]

Well, as we've been discussing the past few pages, the player mechanics, level design, optional tasks (eavesdropping, etc), enemy AI, sandbox shenanigans, weapons and tools, buddy mechanics and support services, attention to detail, etc., are also excellent. And of course the art direction, animation, graphics, performance, sound design, music, voice acting, cinematography, etc., is great, as well. The unconventional narrative structure is where it gets divisive, but it's not without its fans.

MGSV is a great game. I can understand people wanting a more traditional MGS, but by any reasonable standard MGSV excels. Its "game feel" is a new standard for realistic third-person games, but it also does many other things exceptionally well. And I love the fact it allows you to play out all of the best moments, feeling like a Bond movie one moment and Rambo the next.

No, sorry. They butchered MGS identity beyond any means. I played 25 hours already and besides the beginning it felt like I was constantly doing the same. Snake as a character is barely recognizable. They could've named it splinter cell open world adventures or just cause stealth. But their is nothing in there that makes me feel like it is metal gear besides a very superficial painting. God dann Snake was always the heart of the series and he is so faceless now it could just be a random generated avatar. Horrible.

 

[Ratrat]

No, sorry. They butchered MGS identity beyond any means. I played 25 hours already and besides the beginning it felt like I was constantly doing the same. Snake as a character is barely recognizable. They could've named it splinter cell open world adventures or just cause stealth. But their is nothing in there that makes me feel like it is metal gear besides a very superficial painting. God dann Snake was always the heart of the series and he is so faceless now it could just be a random generated avatar. Horrible.

Sorry, you should realy finish the game. Your overall opinion may go even worse, but there are major developments that will affect your opinion of the presentation/story.

 

[Neiteio]

No, sorry. They butchered MGS identity beyond any means. I played 25 hours already and besides the beginning it felt like I was constantly doing the same. Snake as a character is barely recognizable. They could've named it splinter cell open world adventures or just cause stealth. But their is nothing in there that makes me feel like it is metal gear besides a very superficial painting. God dann Snake was always the heart of the series and he is so faceless now it could just be a random generated avatar. Horrible.

Sorry to hear that. I love MGSV -- it's already one of my all-time favorites -- and it's a welcome relief after the whack story-to-gameplay balance of MGS4. But it looks like we're looking at this in different ways. That's fine, though.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I think it'd my GOTY if Fallout 4 isn't better.

Would be a miracle for FO4 to control better than MGS5 though .

 

[pantsmith]

The Witcher 3 is better

This is such a terrible post - at least explain why you feel that way instead of rushing for "first".

I greatly enjoyed my time with the Witcher, but movement and traversal are not one of its great points.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

This has to be the most divisive game of the year, right?

I see a lot of people loving it and a lot of people being utterly disappointed by it (me being part of the disappointed crowd). There is almost no in-between.

This is such a terrible post - at least explain why you feel that way instead of rushing for "first".

I greatly enjoyed my time with the Witcher, but movement and traversal are not one of its great points.

No, but traversal in MGS isn't great either. Actually, it's pretty bad. Want to get to the other side of the map? Either call your horse, wait a minute, and then spend 30 minutes riding OR call a chopper, wait a minute, load back into the main menu, select where you want to land, watch the "landing animation" and hopefully now you are somewhere close to where you want to be. In Witcher there were fast travel points everywhere, that helped a lot.
Also Witcher has a bigger focus on mission structure and story within the missions, meanwhile a lot of missions in MGS are just "Kidnap that random guy and never hear from him again"

 

[Arkeband]

I got really sick and tired of side ops, so I stopped playing after I beat the game with like a 65% complete rating.

Boss fights are also bullet sponges or Quiet cheese tactics, so those were rather unfulfilling (except the last boss fight which was pretty incredible)

 

[The Xtortionist]

No, but traversal in MGS isn't great either. Actually, it's pretty bad. Want to get to the other side of the map? Either call your horse, wait a minute, and then spend 30 minutes riding OR call a chopper, wait a minute, load back into the main menu, select where you want to land, watch the "landing animation" and hopefully now you are somewhere close to where you want to be.

This is precisely why I stopped playing despite not being bored with the mechanics. Awful game flow.

 

[Felix Lighter]

This is such a terrible post - at least explain why you feel that way instead of rushing for "first".

I greatly enjoyed my time with the Witcher, but movement and traversal are not one of its great points.

I'm pretty sure he posted that so that he would be quoted a hundred times in this thread. It was pretty effective.

 

[OBias]

And I love the fact it allows you to play out all of the best moments, feeling like a Bond movie one moment and Rambo the next.

Sometimes it's even Ghost in the Shell when you use stealth camo, Quiet or D-Walker.

 

[Markoman]

Regarding the level/mission-design I think MGSV missed the opportunity to do some next-level/next-gen stuff (Maybe consoles were holding it back).

Yes, like some of you already mentioned the game has to be lauded for the non-cheating-AI. The game was designed like a closed eco-system, but sadly it seems like they couldn't finish this concept just like the story. Imagine one Outpost calling for reeinforcements and the main base sending out trucks/choppers/tanks with soldiers.

The main-problem of MGSV's overall design is, that the AI only seems to work in a rather small perimeter around the "bases". Yes, I have seen one enemy soldier runnig nearly a mile in the game in search for me, but that's not enough to really keep the player on his toes if he just leaves the hotspots.
Yesterday I did one of the last "destroy the tank unit" Side-Ops and it was the most fun thing I did in the game (almost 200h), because the unit was placed near the lion rock base. So I went in sniped the heli down while hell was breaking lose around me. It was pretty challenging and I died a lot, but still I was thinking "Why didn't they do this 100 Side-Ops earlier"

The thing is, the action mostly (only) takes place in those outpost/base areas and if the player leaves that circle, even the best AI won't be able to work against this. This game needed like an Ultra-Red-Alert-Status where 50 enemy soldiers are trying to track you down on foot, using Jeeps, Tanks....but I assume this won't work on 360/PS3 and I'm not sure about PS4/One.

The alternative would have been to design the game around several smaller Maps -maybe a little bigger than Camp Omega, so that ven 20 enemies can really become a challenge/threat.
I'm not sure about this, but in GZ you had 35-40 enemies on a rather small map. You won't find even 20 soldiers in one location of the same size in MGSV.

This is how I would design a game like this:
- get rid of the open world mission-structure instead you stay on the map and you can manually save
- give me one major objective: for example "kill Skullface in OKB Zero"
- at the beginning it has to be impossible for the player to simply traverse through the Russian main base to reach OKB Zero
- give a strategic purpose to each of the other bases: for example destroying the powerplant will shut down all lights that are connected to the electricity-network, destroying the barracks will decrease the man-power of the enemy, destroying bridges will keep vehicles from reinforcing other bases and so on
- so, by strategically working your way through the map it will become possible to deal with the main base at one point
- make some smaller more directed missions that will lead you to other areas - those are useful to build up the plot and add to the variety

 

[yurinka]

I played over 200 hours and I think it's the most important game in terms of gaming history of this ganerarion (last Metal Gear/Konami game by Kojima, some topics adressed on its story and how are they handled, influence in future AAA games, etc), and maybe only topped by Bloodborne as the best game of the generation.

Yes, like all the other games have some flaws or things that could have been improved, but they are really minor comprared to its good and important parts.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I beat the game this weekend. I beat all the main missions and majority of the side ops. I'm ready to walk away from the game for a long time.

Easily my game of the year, but I had my fill. As much as there was right with the game, there was a lot wrong with it too.

 

[Thrakier]

Sorry to hear that. I love MGSV -- it's already one of my all-time favorites -- and it's a welcome relief after the whack story-to-gameplay balance of MGS4. But it looks like we're looking at this in different ways. That's fine, though.

Well, one could say that MGSV has a whack story-to-gameplay balance as well. And in addition to that, it has almost no sense of progress (not numbers but physical and story progress) and an extremly high level of repetition which rivals the worst like Ass Creed.

If the game hadn't MGS in the title, it would probably metacritic around 75%: "Good but repetitive oldschool sandbox gameplay in lifeless surrounding. There are slight moments where it shows story potentital, but ultimately, there is way too much filler content. Micro-Transactions-Galore doesn't make up for the lack of identitiy."

 

[GenG3000]

This is precisely why I stopped playing despite not being bored with the mechanics. Awful game flow.

Or you can use the box delivery system and be right there.

 

[laxu]

Well, as we've been discussing the past few pages, the player mechanics, level design, optional tasks (eavesdropping, etc), enemy AI, sandbox shenanigans, weapons and tools, buddy mechanics and support services, attention to detail, etc., are also excellent. And of course the art direction, animation, graphics, performance, sound design, music, voice acting, cinematography, etc., is great, as well. The unconventional narrative structure is where it gets divisive, but it's not without its fans.

It's really a discussion on whether good core game mechanics are enough. The game is ripe with crap level/mission design, the game world is essentially dead (player's only interaction is generally with enemies) and lacks setpiece locations. The story is barely there and there's a lot of poor narrative in the cassette tapes.

I believe this might've been better as an episodic game as the mission structure suggests. We could've had a really polished chapter 1 set in Afghanistan and a chapter 2 in Africa, letting the developers spend more time on fleshing out the content and story.

Now what happens is people invest a lot of time in it (somebody should count how much of that is just sitting in the fuckin' chopper waiting for a mission to start!) and grow increasingly jaded over time as the game doesn't deliver enough purpose for the player.

 

[Neiteio]

It's really a discussion on whether good core game mechanics are enough. The game is ripe with crap level/mission design, the game world is essentially dead (player's only interaction is generally with enemies) and lacks setpiece locations. The story is barely there and there's a lot of poor narrative in the cassette tapes.

The "empty" open world is a smart design choice, imo. The whole concept of free infiltration is being able to approach an installation from any direction, and since time is of the essence in s-ranks, you need to be able to reliably set traps or create choke points in order to stop or tail targets moving from one installation to the next. Frustration could set in if there were roaming factions or other chaotic variables beyond the occasional jackal or sandstorm.

I agree there should be a way to bypass the ACC, though. Fast travel between LZs would be amazing.

Level and mission design is great, however. Like I said before, it's reductionist to think of the variety in terms of four or five mission types, just like it's reductionist to say Mario levels are merely about the flagpole. A cursory glance at the official guide reveals many wildly different approaches for each level. Moments that would've been relegated to cutscenes in the past are fully playable here, and there are so many optional prisoners/escapees to rescue, enemies to tail and overhear, and breadcrumb trails to follow if you're observent. Even the same path can play out in a whole new way at a different time of day in different weather, with different loadouts, buddies, vehicles, etc. And even the most organic environs have carefully arranged geography for abundant coverage and misdirection. I'm thinking I might do a detailed level breakdown and appreciation piece in the future. There's a lot to love.

I believe this might've been better as an episodic game as the mission structure suggests. We could've had a really polished chapter 1 set in Afghanistan and a chapter 2 in Africa, letting the developers spend more time on fleshing out the content and story.

Ch. 1 could've been split into three acts for a stronger sense of story momentum. Missions 1-12 are in Afghanistan, and 13-20 are in Africa, followed by 21-31 that cover both. Each act uncovers a new conspiracy leading up to the final reveal of the villain's plan. Dividing it this way could've sharpened the focus, imo, making it easier to trace the story's "shape" in one's mind. As it stands, Ch. 1 is huge to the point of being a tad unwieldy.

edit: On mobile, so many "autocorrect" typos

 

[BattleMonkey]

The "empty" open world is a smart design choice, imo. The whole concept of free infiltration is being able to approach an installation from any direction, and since time is of the essence in s-ranks, you need to be able to reliably set traps or create choke points in order to stop or tail targets moving from one installation to the next. Frustration could set in if there were roaming factions or other chaotic variables beyond the occasional jackal or sandstorm..

The open aspect is fine, but most of it is not even needed or used which is the problem. It's more of a novelty, they didn't need to make it that I have to drive or run through thousnd meters of nothing land to get to the next objective area. They needed to populate the game world with more meat. Africa at least put in some random animals that would attack you which added a little, but they could have done lot more. Have more random patrols of enemies in the world, make it more dynamic for example and don't contain everything to the roads. Would have been fun to run across the land and come upon a platoon of soldiers on patrol in the wild. But instead the enemies typically took the roads and stayed there so you could just walk through empty vast territory and avoid everything.

They have a cool game system and world that feels under utilized.

 

[Neiteio]

The open aspect is fine, but most of it is not even needed or used which is the problem. It's more of a novelty, they didn't need to make it that I have to drive or run through thousnd meters of nothing land to get to the next objective area. They needed to populate the game world with more meat. Africa at least put in some random animals that would attack you which added a little, but they could have done lot more. Have more random patrols of enemies in the world, make it more dynamic for example and don't contain everything to the roads. Would have been fun to run across the land and come upon a platoon of soldiers on patrol in the wild. But instead the enemies typically took the roads and stayed there so you could just walk through empty vast territory and avoid everything.

They have a cool game system and world that feels under utilized.

I would've been fine with more random events in side ops, but I think the balance is just right for mission ops, where you're dealing with one or several installations in a bounded area and need to count on having a certain amount of control so you can setup for s-ranks and/or optional tasks.

When it comes to side ops, the open world being "empty" didn't bother me since I'd just drop in for a side op or two before warping off to an entirely different area.

My only grievance on that front is the reliance on the ACC. It seems the engine is flexible enough to load up distant areas relatively quickly (judging from the box delivery system), so I don't see why they couldn't allow LZ-to-LZ fast travel.

At the end of the day, I feel like more interesting moment-to-moment stuff happens on each mini-adventure in MGSV than in the same span of time during any point in, say, MGS4. And they rarely interrupt you during missions.

 

[kodecraft]

I really hope RE7 is all kind of MGS V levels of good. RE6 was tight!

 

[Neiteio]

I really hope RE7 is all kind of MGS V levels of good. RE6 was tight!

Yeah, I was among the first people here preaching the RE6 gospel when it comes to core mechanics. RE6 has an incredible combat engine, and I think if they wed that to the "feel" of MGSV's character movement, RE7 would be god-tier.

Also, this is random, but hire Stefanie Joosten (Quiet's model/motion actor/facial actor/English-and-Japanese voice actress/singer) and make her the face of a new RE protag.

 

[Vagrant]

Regarding the level/mission-design I think MGSV missed the opportunity to do some next-level/next-gen stuff (Maybe consoles were holding it back).

Yes, like some of you already mentioned the game has to be lauded for the non-cheating-AI. The game was designed like a closed eco-system, but sadly it seems like they couldn't finish this concept just like the story. Imagine one Outpost calling for reeinforcements and the main base sending out trucks/choppers/tanks with soldiers.

The main-problem of MGSV's overall design is, that the AI only seems to work in a rather small perimeter around the "bases". Yes, I have seen one enemy soldier runnig nearly a mile in the game in search for me, but that's not enough to really keep the player on his toes if he just leaves the hotspots.
Yesterday I did one of the last "destroy the tank unit" Side-Ops and it was the most fun thing I did in the game (almost 200h), because the unit was placed near the lion rock base. So I went in sniped the heli down while hell was breaking lose around me. It was pretty challenging and I died a lot, but still I was thinking "Why didn't they do this 100 Side-Ops earlier"

The thing is, the action mostly (only) takes place in those outpost/base areas and if the player leaves that circle, even the best AI won't be able to work against this. This game needed like an Ultra-Red-Alert-Status where 50 enemy soldiers are trying to track you down on foot, using Jeeps, Tanks....but I assume this won't work on 360/PS3 and I'm not sure about PS4/One.

The alternative would have been to design the game around several smaller Maps -maybe a little bigger than Camp Omega, so that ven 20 enemies can really become a challenge/threat.
I'm not sure about this, but in GZ you had 35-40 enemies on a rather small map. You won't find even 20 soldiers in one location of the same size in MGSV.

This is how I would design a game like this:
- get rid of the open world mission-structure instead you stay on the map and you can manually save
- give me one major objective: for example "kill Skullface in OKB Zero"
- at the beginning it has to be impossible for the player to simply traverse through the Russian main base to reach OKB Zero
- give a strategic purpose to each of the other bases: for example destroying the powerplant will shut down all lights that are connected to the electricity-network, destroying the barracks will decrease the man-power of the enemy, destroying bridges will keep vehicles from reinforcing other bases and so on
- so, by strategically working your way through the map it will become possible to deal with the main base at one point
- make some smaller more directed missions that will lead you to other areas - those are useful to build up the plot and add to the variety

The main base does send out choppers and helicopters, but only at high active combat readiness. It also sends jeeps with soldiers from other bases. Not sure why you think this part is somehow unfinished? Also they will sometimes send a four man team outside the main base perimeter if they have the manpower. There's even a guy in charge who will be like "on me" and if they take awhile to get there he will mumble they're slacking. At that point they'll go pretty far afield and issue orders to split up. That said, them mostly sticking to bases and outposts is clearly by design. They wanted the zone in-between sandboxes to be a safe staging-zone. Got a combat alert? Run like hell out of the base and into the wilderness. If the player makes it they're rewarded with the end of the alert and can make a new plan or phantom cigar back to normal if they have it. This is clearly to keep an alert from being overly punishing. Also, if your objective is in the base you have to go back in anyway so it makes sense to keep the majority of the defenses there. I don't think technical ability has anything to do with it. It's not hard to spawn a tank to follow your position, GTA has done that for years.

Oh and major bases have a shitload of enemies, go back and count how many are in OKBzero if you don't believe me. If it's not at least 43 I'd be shocked.