kurisu_1974
Banned
Dissenting: expressing disagreement with the majority opinion. How did I use that word incorrectly in the context of this thread?
Man does black face for Kanye West costume because this shit will never end
- Thread starter TheSpoiler
- Start date
- Status
Dissenting: expressing disagreement with the majority opinion. How did I use that word incorrectly in the context of this thread?
One side is the discussion is literally "Doesn't bother me, so it shouldn't bother you".
Silver Arrows
Banned
Just forget that tiny detail and continue to feel sorry for those poor people that got banned by that big meanie Bish.
It's been 300 years bro, why so salty?
It is one thing to post studies, historical notes, or even a poll. But nah, it's just "my friend does it so it is cool".
Fuck history and context, and just manners in general.
If you can posit a better argument for blackface than what has come before then by all means please do so. Because when your best argument is so that anime cosplayers can be more accurate...well...
I'm pretty sure they would have been banned in any thread for telling any race gender or identity of people in general that are the topic of discussion in an offensive controversial situation to "get over it". Not really for having a dissenting opinion as much as being an insensitive dick...to a race of people of all things...being racist =/= just a dissenting opinion
Silver Arrows
Banned
Could be worse, man. Could be posting crime statistics to validate their ways, we are balls deep in this thread.
Vipershark
Member
It's easy to argue that the other side is "It bothers me so it should bother you too".
That's a bit of a moot point but that's not even a necessary discussion.
What I'm saying essentially boils down to if you actually desire to educate people, kicking them out isn't the way to go about it. You and I are having a discussion (...albeit a kind of derail-y one) with the intent of coming to a conclusion, are we not? You can't have a discussion if only one person/side is allowed to talk. Why would the other side bother listening if the majority side shows that they clearly aren't wanted? That seems to me that it does the OPPOSITE of education. All the bans do is entrench people further in their ways.
I'm not defending blackface, I'm saying that I disagree with the bans for those who disagree with the majority opinion in this (and many other) thread(s).
MushroomTip
Banned
wow look at all those banned racists :/
My limited experience is that in the US intention just doesn't matter, taboos are established and you cannot cross those lines regardless of intention. The taboo of certain words is what always baffles me the most.
It is rather troubling people criticized Tello for something that's not even from the country though. I see this more and more with many civil rights issues, Like what happened with importing affirmative action to a country like Brazil of all places. I find it not only ridiculous but even harmful in the long run.
You have people that continued to double down on their comments, what more do you expect to happen?
AcademicSaucer
Member
Pretty dumb thing to do if you live in the US considering the history of blackface there.
This comes up in every discussion about race, the opressie has to charm the oppressor . Fuck that noise, even if they came into the discussion honestly, some things should be a given after 400 hundred years. Or just in general.
Should women convince jobs they deserve equal pay?
Should gays convince bigots they deserve the basic rights of marriage?
Should all muslims apologize when a fuck shit blows something up?
Should black people have to explain why black face is fucked up?
No on all those accounts, god forbid a person has basic empathy/
Veritigo_X
Member
I think some people are taking the idea of a ban too seriously. I doubt any of these bans were permanent. It's essentially a time out so they can think about what they've done. They can come back educated on what got them banned, or come back with the same ignorance and most likely get banned again down the line.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
This pleases me.
Vipershark
Member
I mean, if someone continues to defend a point when they feel they haven't been shown enough evidence to support the opposite viewpoint, I'm not really going to fault them for not being convinced. (...though this does open a big can of worms where people can use the loophole that it just isn't enough and still ignore everything, which obviously isn't good)
If it ends up going where they start being legitimately racist and start saying terrible things then obviously that's something banworthy. But if the discussion stays civil and their comments don't move out of the realm of "I disagree with what you're saying" then that doesn't really necessitate a ban, does it?
Silver Arrows
Banned
B-But I should be able to say what I want without reprecussions! Freeze peaches man!
in this instance, what evidence is lacking? I mean, I'm not seeing anything like that in here for the majority of the bannings.
Vipershark
Member
This goes into what I just said about "It offends me, so it should offend you too."
If they came into the discussion with honest intentions with a viewpoint that is opposite yours and aren't being an absolute jerk or an -ist about it, clearly some things aren't just "a given".
Not everyone is brought up in the same situation that you are, man. I'm all for educating people that don't get it but not when "education" is a code word for removing them from the echo chamber.
That's not really for us to decide.
kurisu_1974
Banned
I once got banned for posting a news article about the Belgian justice system declaring Black Pete "not racist". It was not my opinion, not my content, just something that went against the grain here I guess.
Always-honest
Banned
While i agree with most you say, i think labeling people as "diet racist" from the getgo is also not really contributing to a healthy discussion ;P (or not inviting at the very least).
But yeah, i agree that by now, people who are more or less interested in the world around them should have at least some understanding of how sensitive blackface is in America (and in other parts of the world i must say).
Certainly people on GAF who must have seen at least one or two topics on this subject.
Huh? just for posting that article? What was the reasoning behind that? Or did you include an opinion that might have triggered a ban?
Gentleman Jack
Member
This exact conversation has happened six times on this forum since 2013, almost always around this time of year. Little by little, the tone of the conversation has shifted from a lot of people shrugging and wondering what the big deal is to a much smaller set of voices wondering what the big deal is.
The conversation happens over a much longer period of time than the few scant hours this thread has been active. There were earnest efforts to educate others long before any bans came down, so don't mischaracterize the thread as 'mock and ban,' because that is very much not what went down.
As for it being sad that people who say 'blackface isn't a big deal get over it' having their voices silenced, well that's too fucking bad. We'll live.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
What was the context? Why did you post it?
Vipershark
Member
Dunno, I'm not defending blackface.
As far as the first few pages in particular go (yes, I'll admit that I did jump through the thread) a lot of the posts were pretty harmless.
See this post, for example. I don't agree with the dude but he didn't actually say anything inflammatory there. This is his most recent post in the thread so he definitely didn't "continue to dissent" or become more entrenched in his views. That's why he was banned.
There was plenty of room to explain to him what the problem with his reasoning was but then we just end up with responses like this
that aren't educating at all and are more just "shut up, agree or get out."
This happens all the time in these kinds of threads.
edit- I'd like to stay and discuss, but I've got to get to school. I'll check back later.
kurisu_1974
Banned
The context was the Black Pete thread, I posted it because it was relevant to the discussion. Why do you think I posted it?
I think the ban message was something like 'it's not because it was OK 150 years ago, that it is OK today". Maybe they misunderstood the article, or maybe they thought I was part of the Belgian government
why post it then? hasn't there been numerous protests about black pete? but numerous people claim that it's not racist because it's historical/celebratory or some shit?
I don't understand why you post a link to that unless it was to defend it or just playing devil's advocate.
Anyone that comes in a thread about blackface in America talking about they don't see the problem aren't trying to understand the opposite side, especially if they're from another country and trying to apply their norms here. also with the controversies in numerous countries involving blackface, people should start to understand that it's generally not accepted and offensive as fuck regardless of context.
because it's 2015 and people could easily just google blackface to see why it's offensive. the opus isn't on us to educate people. as somebody stated above, this opinion is only brought up when it involves blackface or some subtle racism to black people that people don't take the effort to understand. once somebody does, they refuse to understand the opposite side and stick to the side of "it's not a full blow caricature, so it's not offensive!"
shit happens every halloween. shit is offensive every time.
you don't have to paint your skin black to dress up as a black star.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Honestly if you're curious about moderation decisions, derailing a thread about blackface is not the way to go about it.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Anything to say that "It doesn't bother me, why should it bother black people?" Without explicitly saying it. So lets poke on the fact that the mods are watching the thread closely.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I have no idea.
You literally just posted the link with no other opinion? Or were you posting it to say, "Well this country doesn't think it's racist so maybe it's okay?"
Why wouldn't it be racist? What reason is there to put on horrible makeup and walk around as another race?
The context was the Black Pete thread, I posted it because it was relevant to the discussion. Why do you think I posted it?
I think the ban message was something like 'it's not because it was OK 150 years ago, that it is OK today". Maybe they misunderstood the article, or maybe they thought I was part of the Belgian government
You posted it to defend Black Pete because I'm sure the thread was full of people talking about how racist it was. It doesn't sound like they misunderstood the article, they just saw what you were trying to do.
Always-honest
Banned
The context was the Black Pete thread, I posted it because it was relevant to the discussion. Why do you think I posted it?
I think the ban message was something like 'it's not because it was OK 150 years ago, that it is OK today". Maybe they misunderstood the article, or maybe they thought I was part of the Belgian government
Maybe they thought you agreed.. Sometimes it's too bad we can't react to a ban. But i guess that they think you posted it as a defence for continuing the black pete tradition.
kurisu_1974
Banned
It was the justice department's verdict regarding official complaints about the holiday and the depiction of Black Pete. It was not my opinion. It was not just "numerous random people".
the banning in that instance seems reasonable. it's just another way of dismissing how other people feel about it. A casual dismissal is still a dismissal and it's tired ground that has already been tread over and over again.
Ignorance isn't an excuse anymore.
If they can't see that people being offended is an easy enough reason to stop shrugging their shoulders and saying "what's the problem?" then you get banned. simple enough.
The amount of shit (and that puts it lightly) that black people have endured in the US for 400 years, I think we can step back and concede at least this to them and defer to trying not to offend them either purposefully or by accident. we owe them a hell of a lot more so this one seems simple enough to me.
i'll say it again because it doesn't seem to be understood, empathy is the fucking key here. they need to step outside of themselves and see the world through someone else. a ban is a good way to gut check those people.
So you posted that in a thread that was most likely full of arguments revolving around whether it was racist or not.
That comes off as you trying to prove a point, like you agree with it. People have been protesting the confederate flag for years and governments have been defending it just as long, doesn't make their opinion right or even noteworthy.
AlimNassor
Banned
Theres no fucking justification, no defense. Blackface is racist, and by arguing about how "it isn't racist" makes you a racist. Gaf has no place for racists. So no, frankly imo, I don't see any way you can argue this and not be considered a racist. Whats there to argue about? I'm frankly tired of seeing people arguing on how this isn't racist.
infinit777
Member
Isn't blackface only really offensive in america... i remember reading that somewhere.
Edit: just want to mention, i am not defending blackface.
Edit: just want to mention, i am not defending blackface.
I tried to find kurisu's exact post but couldn't but here's his views on zwarte piet
I'm sure his ban was completely unjustified
I'm sure his ban was completely unjustified
No it's pretty offensive in the UK and most parts of western Europe as well.
soundahfekz
Member
Harmless to whom exactly?
This ain't class. It's no one's responsibility to sit you down and provide history lessons until you decide you don't want to be bigoted anymore
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Sure are a lot of mods in this thread dictating when a ban is ok or not..huh.
infinit777
Member
Thanks ^.^
MushroomTip
Banned
what about going whiteface? Is that ok with you? what do you think of that movie 'white chicks'? is that a rasis movie? and that other one with lenny henry.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked