Rise of the Tomb Raider - Review Thread

golem said:
Holy cow at brads 30+ hour play through. Sounds like he really got into it
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Seriously...
meant I spent nearly all my free time after I got a hold of this game playing it somewhat obsessively, attempting to hit 100 percent completion in each area. But you'll quickly realize you can't max out each area up front, because the designers are totally unafraid to get their Metroid on
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I never thought of professional reviewers playing games this way since I figured they'd want to get the game over with so they could get their review done.
 
Journey said:
I will never understand this logic. So a PS4 customer will walk into GameStop, look at Tomb Raider New release on PS4 with excellent 9+ reviews, the clerk tells him how great the game is, that he beat it more than once, and as he's about to check out the copy, he says wait a minute, how could you have beat this game if it just released today? and when the clerk reveals that he played it a year ago on Xbox One, he goes Yuck, I feel dirty now, return his crap to the shelf immediately! Unless you think this is the MO of anyone outside of Tomb Raider fans, then I don't get it.
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Yeah, didn't Sony say that a big part of the point of the Uncharted and Last Of Us Remasters was for PS4 players who hadn't played the previous games due to console exclusion? And those weren't even ports from the same generation. People really overestimate how much hurt feelings actually affect purchasing decisions. If the game is good, the demand is there, and people are bored of playing Uncharted 4, it will sell.
 
Justinh said:
Seriously...


I never thought of professional reviewers playing games this way since I figured they'd want to get the game over with so they could get their review done.
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If there's one thing you can respect about Brad, its that when he gets into a game, he really gets into it.
 
Journey said:
I will never understand this logic. So a PS4 customer will walk into GameStop, look at Tomb Raider New release on PS4 with excellent 9+ reviews, the clerk tells him how great the game is, that he beat it more than once, and as he's about to check out the copy, he says wait a minute, how could you have beat this game if it just released today? and when the clerk reveals that he played it a year ago on Xbox One, he goes Yuck, I feel dirty now, return his crap to the shelf immediately! Unless you think this is the MO of anyone outside of Tomb Raider fans, then I don't get it, especially when the game will likely see some improvements.
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You are misunderstanding why people are complaining about tiered releases. It's about marketing, word of mouth, and momentum.
 
Dice said:
I'd watch a let's play, but that is inherently spoilers in linear games like this.
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There have been plenty of spoiler-free streams going on for the last week. Main reason being that Microsoft/SE were super-specific about what could be shown and what couldn't.

Justinh said:
Seriously...

I never thought of professional reviewers playing games this way since I figured they'd want to get the game over with so they could get their review done.
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If you're going to sites where you feel that way about the reviewers, stop going to those sites. Reviewers are gamers first and foremost. They get paid for what they do but generally they're people who enjoy playing games. Or at least they should be.
 
skLaFarebear said:
If there's one thing you can respect about Brad, its that when he gets into a game, he really gets into it.
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Curufinwe said:
Brad only reviews about four games a year, so he can take his time.
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watership said:
Also giant bomb doesn't have to have a huge team nor do they have to review every game. They allow themselves to play the games they want, and for longer.
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Ah, I guess I'm still kinda new to Giant Bomb. Only been watching their Quick Looks for a couple years now.maybe I should give them some money...

Anyways, his review was..."reassuring?" I'm started to get hyped to play this game, and I only started caring about it yesterday.
tells a better story than the 2013 reboot...
The last game was a decent start, but for my money, this is where the new Tomb Raider really begins.
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Industrialist said:
There have been plenty of spoiler-free streams going on for the last week. Main reason being that Microsoft/SE were super-specific about what could be shown and what couldn't.
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Yeah, from what I understood that's why all the stuff that started popping up last week was more or less the same areas and things from early on in the game...
I tended to think overly heavy embargo stuff was annoying, but I guess this was a good thing?
 
CaviarMeths said:
I love this crap. The fewer cutscenes I have to watch, the better. In fact, the entire story could be told through audio logs and notebooks and I'd be 100% OK with that.
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It's almost never properly implemented. It's always some tape lying around and then some guy talking into it for no reason. The context of this type of storytelling is almost always bullshit.

"This will be my final entry. I am out of food blah blah blah. And there's a monster near me.. WAAAH."
 
jackdoe said:
Guess you must be a fan of MGS V then.
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Haven't played it, but my understanding of the series is that it's extraordinarily cutscene-heavy. Is MGSV different in that regard?

Lime said:
It's almost never properly implemented. It's always some tape lying around and then some guy talking into it for no reason. The context of this type of storytelling is almost always bullshit.

"This will be my final entry. I am out of food blah blah blah. And there's a monster near me.. WAAAH."
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Hmm well, poorly written story is bad regardless of how it`s delivered. I guess I just prefer the "less is more" approach when it comes to video game storytelling. A great atmosphere and solid lore will trump traditional narrative for me.
 
El-Pistolero said:
This site is generally on point (there are exceptions, of course, but they tend to raise valid points and abstain from assigning perfect notes left and right).
The North American gaming press is incredibly generous by comparison...
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You can say that again.

Gamekult's Scores
For 685 reviews, this publication has graded:
4%higher than the average critic
1%same as the average critic
95%lower than the average critic

On average, this publication grades 14.8 points lower than other critics.

Average Game review score: 59
 
WTF is the Fem Freq review, damn. Almost NOTHING about the game mechanics, just rambling about "morality" and this meta-game questions which add nothing to a real understanding of the game.
 
El-Pistolero said:
This site is generally on point (there are exceptions, of course, but they tend to raise valid points and abstain from assigning perfect notes left and right).
The North American gaming press is incredibly generous by comparison...
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I feel like there should be a tool for giving an "adjusted score" for AAA games. Almost no American reviewers will dare score anything lower than 7 unless it's an unmitigated shit show.

Leopold said:
WTF is the Fem Freq review, damn. Almost NOTHING about the game mechanics, just rambling about "morality" and this meta-game questions which add nothing to a real understanding of the game.
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To be fair, what Ms. Sarkeesian does isn't really consumer review. I'd call it more "industry review." It's review, but from a different perspective. It's not really intended to influence your purchasing decisions the way other reviews are.
 
Leopold said:
WTF is the Fem Freq review, damn. Almost NOTHING about the game mechanics, just rambling about "morality" and this meta-game questions which add nothing to a real understanding of the game.
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I found the FemFreq review to be quite informative, actually. Since I already played TR2013, it told me all I needed to know.
 
El-Pistolero said:
This site is generally on point (there are exceptions, of course, but they tend to raise valid points and abstain from assigning perfect notes left and right).
The North American gaming press is incredibly generous by comparison...
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Checks their Last of Us review......

They seem to be fine :)
 
jackdoe said:
Guess you must be a fan of MGS V then.
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In MGS V you can play while listening, which is helpful. Sounds like you have to stare at an image of a tape recorder in the menu to listen to these, which is the worst possible way to go imho.

Want to see this reviewed from an old school fan. Watched Gamespot's video review and while the words all spoke of more tombs and more complicated tombs, most of the footage was headshots and takedowns, so there was a disconnect there.

Expected the game to look great, as the first one did, but it looks amazing.
 
Leopold said:
WTF is the Fem Freq review, damn. Almost NOTHING about the game mechanics, just rambling about "morality" and this meta-game questions which add nothing to a real understanding of the game.
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Anita has generally not focused much on the gameplay element of games - she's more interested in social critique.

That's fine - there's a million other sites to tell you how the shooting feels
 
NullPointer said:
Want to see this reviewed from an old school fan. Watched Gamespot's video review and while the words all spoke of more tombs and more complicated tombs, most of the footage was headshots and takedowns, so there was a disconnect there.

Expected the game to look great, as the first one did, but it looks amazing.
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I mean, I don't know what people expected with respect to the tombs. They're still going to be the small optional piss-easy puzzle areas to get some reward. They're not the meat of the new Tomb Raider games at all.

This sequel is just more of the same of the first game with bigger areas and maybe some improvements in combat design. They didn't hear the cries of people who wanted more puzzles and less action because all the positives were about the combat and the open areas so they did more of that and kept the tombs the same.

The new TR games, from what I've seen, are way more like Uncharted 1 in terms of the balance of action to puzzles. Which is a shame but that is what people are playing them for and not for the puzzles.
 
CaviarMeths said:
I love this crap. The fewer cutscenes I have to watch, the better. In fact, the entire story could be told through audio logs and notebooks and I'd be 100% OK with that.
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You can still tell the story through the character as you play her. It does not have to be one or the other, this is 2015 almost 2016. Audio tapes IMO, are so cheap and dated.

I still can't believe sites give out perfect scores in this day and age. They are far too common for AAA games it is almost nauseating.
 
Revven said:
I mean, I don't know what people expected with respect to the tombs. They're still going to be the small optional piss-easy puzzle areas to get some reward. They're not the meat of the new Tomb Raider games at all.
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Well that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. The Videogamer review talks about the first game's tombs being five minute puzzles while the new ones are larger, more complicated and are more like thirty minute puzzles. And Brad from Giant Bomb mentioned in the recent Bombcast that he did more actual tomb raiding in the first two hours of the new game then he had in the 2013 game altogether. So that's all promising.
 
Revven said:
I mean, I don't know what people expected with respect to the tombs. They're still going to be the small optional piss-easy puzzle areas to get some reward. They're not the meat of the new Tomb Raider games at all.

This sequel is just more of the same of the first game with bigger areas and maybe some improvements in combat design. They didn't hear the cries of people who wanted more puzzles and less action because all the positives were about the combat and the open areas so they did more of that and kept the tombs the same.

The new TR games, from what I've seen, are way more like Uncharted 1 in terms of the balance of action to puzzles. Which is a shame but that is what people are playing them for and not for the puzzles.
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There are 9 optional challenge tombs. 10 if you count a forced one in the main story. They are bigger, more varied, take longer to complete, and in more tomb like environments. They are also better hidden and have some traps and some trickier platforming than anything in the reboot before reaching the tomb. They are still small though and difficulty will vary on player by player basis and whether or not you use survival instincts. They have listened at least a bit an it is an improvement on the reboot. The Reboot was mostly slow walks through a cave into small mostly samey looking dens with a simple 1-2 step puzzle. Having caves and crypts to explore in addition to these is nice as well. They don't have puzzles but they hold some nice rewards and material as well.

There are also 4 main story "tombs" this time with some nested puzzles but they of course are also filled with combat and explosions. Still it has better puzzle design than the Reboots main campaign and some actual tomb like environments. The last hub is in particular is amazing looking. I was just hoping for more parts like Syria tomb in the main story with little to no combat. Still the pacing is in no way like Uncharted one if you choose to engage in any of the optional content.
 
Bear Cub in Sky said:
Did you forget Halo CE?
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Nope. I'd definitely consider stuff like Halo, Sonic, etc to be system sellers if I were forced to name some. I was just pointing out that it's easy to argue against pretty much everything being a system seller, because you can basically set your own metric. Look...

"Halo CE wasn't a system seller, because most people didn't buy an Xbox to play it. They bought PS2's."
 
NullPointer said:
Well that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. The Videogamer review talks about the first game's tombs being five minute puzzles while the new ones are larger, more complicated and are more like thirty minute puzzles. And Brad from Giant Bomb mentioned in the recent Bombcast that he did more actual tomb raiding in the first two hours of the new game then he had in the 2013 game altogether. So that's all promising.
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JayB1920 said:
There are 9 optional challenge tombs. 10 if you count a forced one in the main story. They are bigger, more varied, take longer to complete, and in more tomb like environments. They are also better hidden and have some traps and some trickier platforming than anyhting in the reboot before reaching the tomb. The Reboot was mostly slow walks through a cave into small mostly samey looking dens with a simple 1-2 step puzzle. Having caves and crypts to explore in addition to these is nice as well. They don't have puzzles but they hold some nice rewards and material as well.

There are also 4 main story "tombs" this time with some nested puzzles but they of course are also filled with combat and explosions. Still it has better puzzle design than the Reboots main campaign and some actual tomb like environments. The last hub is in particular is amazing looking. I was just hoping for more parts like Syria tomb in the main story with little to no combat.
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Huh, well, that does sound better and more promising but I still firmly believe the focus is definitely more on the combat (otherwise why keep the skill tree and all of that stuff if you take away action stuff etc etc) but obviously I haven't played it, only seen bits and pieces of it.

Certainly would be better to have a more critical eye from someone who played the TR of old.
 
Revven said:
Huh, well, that does sound better and more promising but I still firmly believe the focus is definitely more on the combat (otherwise why keep the skill tree and all of that stuff if you take away action stuff etc etc) but obviously I haven't played it, only seen bits and pieces of it.

Certainly would be better to have a more critical eye from someone who played the TR of old.
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Yeah the main story certainly is still very combat focused but the tombs are an improvement even if a small one. I don't think any of the tombs will take 30 minutes to complete though. 10-15 maybe instead of 5. The puzzles are still clever at times even if easy and some spans multiple rooms or much larger spaces than the side tombs in the reboot.
 
Lime said:
Justin Clark in Slant Magazine's review of the game

On the tombs:
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I read there that the tombs "largely feel superfluous and unnecessary". And then I read the Giant Bomb review:

And the game's "challenge tombs" in particular each grant you a highly useful, unique skill you can't get otherwise. They're also where you'll find the highest density of ancient machinery to climb on and manipulate (and they mostly look really cool to boot). The antique scenery isn't relegated to the side tombs, either; the game is good about filling its critical story path with these kinds of big stone clockwork puzzles, as well. By the time I'd finished the lengthy Syrian tutorial area, I already felt like I'd discovered more intricate ruins than in the entirety of the previous game. Exploring and solving the forgotten secrets of some wise, vanished civilization is what I'm showing up for when I play a game called Tomb Raider, so it was a delight that Rise is more satisfying than its predecessor in that regard.
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And I don't know what to believe.
 
Journey said:
I will never understand this logic. So a PS4 customer will walk into GameStop, look at Tomb Raider New release on PS4 with excellent 9+ reviews, the clerk tells him how great the game is, that he beat it more than once, and as he's about to check out the copy, he says wait a minute, how could you have beat this game if it just released today? and when the clerk reveals that he played it a year ago on Xbox One, he goes Yuck, I feel dirty now, return his crap to the shelf immediately! Unless you think this is the MO of anyone outside of Tomb Raider fans, then I don't get it, especially when the game will likely see some improvements.
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The issue isn't whether PS4 fans will care, it's whether they'll know that it even exists by that time. Late ports rarely have any sort of marketing behind them. They're just dumped out months after the initial release to very little fanfare or press buzz. You know what's likely releasing next year around the time that this will on the PS4? Games like Gran Turismo Sport, FFXV, Horizon, Amy Hennig's Star Wars game, then yearly releases like CoD, AC etc. All of which are going to have gigantic marketing campaigns. TR really won't be garnering much of any press buzz because all of the attention will be on all of the other big games during next years holiday season, and because they've already reviewed it before.
 
Revven said:
This sequel is just more of the same of the first game with bigger areas and maybe some improvements in combat design. They didn't hear the cries of people who wanted more puzzles and less action because all the positives were about the combat and the open areas so they did more of that and kept the tombs the same..
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Not even remotely true.

There's FAR less combat and a few more puzzles and tombs.

I reckon I could get through the whole game using the bow and arrow if I really had to. There's also ways of dealing with the combat sections that don't require going in all guns blazing.

JayB1920 said:
Yeah the main story certainly is still very combat focused...
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Is it?

Compared to "clear this section of all enemies...now here's Lara saying something for ten seconds...now clear THIS section of all enemies" over and over, which is what the first game provided, Rise of the Tomb Raider isn't even comparable in terms of how much combat there is.

Take a look at score attack to see how few enemies there are. You can complete some of the sections (which are portions of the campaign) without taking any weapons!
 
So how many tombs are there? The EG review mentions 9 optional and 'a couple' that are part of the main story.
 
I think both those reviews essentially are noting that the tombs off the critical parth are indeed optional. Where their opinions diverge is in the value of including this content on the side instead of integrating it tightly in the main story

One review finds that this means they are superfluous to the story, which is true. The other review finds that they are worthwhile side content which can unlock you a useful but not exactly necessary skill for use in the game, which also seems accurate.
 
Those are some high scores indeed.

From the videos i have seen it looks great, just unsure on the actual gameplay, any news on the length of the campaign?
 
It sounds like the right decision too. Making them optional means that you can make them complex without worrying about what customers will do if they can't figure out to beat them. Instead of giving up on the game and selling it, they can still complete the game while those with more patience and problem solving abilities can stick to it to get whatever they reward.
 
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