And for no money either! How strange
I don't get why people say Nathan Drake is an asshole that yearns to kill people
- Thread starter The Lamp
- Start date
And for no money either! How strange
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
There's several factors to consider with this.
1) its just a game. In the same way action movies can be torn apart
2) most people don't say this seriously because (see point one)
3) the games all start off on a peaceful manor looking for treasure, then he defends himself and has to kill some dudes. THEN he finds out that the treasure is actually some ancient evil thingy that the bad guys can't get or the world will suffer so he now HAS to actively seek it out and murder all the bad guys trying to get it for the good of mankind (such a hero).
4) there is no way a ton of the people he kills are human. Those huge clone dudes that are immune to shotguns to the face. No way they are'nt demons or some shit.
The only true error of drakes ways is his failure to realise that everyone else is 50 times worse than him at solving puzzles. He is so desperate to stop these guys that he doesn't realise that he is the one solving the mystery for them and leading them straight there. If he just went home the the bad guys would never find the treasure. This might not be true in golden abyse but it was several years ago I played that.
1) its just a game. In the same way action movies can be torn apart
2) most people don't say this seriously because (see point one)
3) the games all start off on a peaceful manor looking for treasure, then he defends himself and has to kill some dudes. THEN he finds out that the treasure is actually some ancient evil thingy that the bad guys can't get or the world will suffer so he now HAS to actively seek it out and murder all the bad guys trying to get it for the good of mankind (such a hero).
4) there is no way a ton of the people he kills are human. Those huge clone dudes that are immune to shotguns to the face. No way they are'nt demons or some shit.
The only true error of drakes ways is his failure to realise that everyone else is 50 times worse than him at solving puzzles. He is so desperate to stop these guys that he doesn't realise that he is the one solving the mystery for them and leading them straight there. If he just went home the the bad guys would never find the treasure. This might not be true in golden abyse but it was several years ago I played that.
He does it as an excuse to kill people because he's a sociopathic serial killer.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
If I read in the news of some guy who popped the necks of Isis members to get to some statue before they destroyed it and made jokes about it during interviews, I'm laughing with him and cheering him on.
AHAHA I like this one. God I hope there aren't armored dudes in UC4!
ultratruman
Banned
I blame the same cultural trend that has lead to the popularity of reality tv and gonzo porn.
It's total naivety to believe that if you suspend the narrative framework of a story, and just slavishly recreate all the material ramifications of murder, that you will somehow gets you closer to truth of how it is to kill another human being.
It's total naivety to believe that if you suspend the narrative framework of a story, and just slavishly recreate all the material ramifications of murder, that you will somehow gets you closer to truth of how it is to kill another human being.
indiana jones is a male fantasy character where part of the appeal is the double-life. he's got rugged good looks, he's smart, he's like really obviously a good guy (because he beats up nazis who are really obviously bad guys). it's not that he's a college professor. being a college professor does a lot of things for him though - it tells the audience this guy is smart (which is part of the fantasy). it also lets him into the real world so we can appreciate the adventure more. it also gives him a sort of moral center because he's teaching people something, so he is probably into history, which plays into his motivation about seeking out treasure (beyond simply having the knowledge of where to go).
nathan drake is this guy who hunts treasure because we later learn he kind of had no choice, being brought into that world. sure you can sympathize with it, but you don't know that until the third game. so for the first two you're kind of in charge of this dude with no real connection to the real world, who we don't know anything about. sure he's smart and stuff, but why? it just seems like he is so the plot can move along. and then he fights bad guys because he put himself in danger. you can even argue that the events of uncharted 2 are at least partially because of his own greed - flynn might have been caught instead if he'd gone it alone, or he could have found another patsy, but drake is ultimately the one who goes along with the plan to seek treasure just because he can.
and there's nothing wrong with nathan drake being a guy of morally questionable values, but to connect him in a straight line to indiana jones because they both hunt treasure is lazy.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
The ones in 3 arnt even armoured. They are just huge and bullet proof.
Then that dude in the train in 2 wearing trousers, a vest and a steal hat.
I want that hat because holy shit it must be insanely magnetic if it stops bullets aimed at his chest.
You know who the bad guy is? Who ever at naughty dog is responsibly for boss / mini boss design.
Death Metalist
Member
I can't wait for the time when Mario gets criticized for jumping on fucking goomba heads and squishing them to nothingness where he could have avoided or simply jump over them. We're getting there slowly but surely.
#Goombashavefamiliestoo
#Goombashavefamiliestoo
JAV Actress
Banned
lol
Beelzebufo
Banned
My Mario did avoid them. And canonically speaking goobas don't die when defeated.
Ghost Slayer
Member
U2 mini boss on train and final boss nightmare returned. And those melee boss in U3
But you killed Bowser
This is where you made a dead serious reply to a joke.
I'm sorry, I can discuss this subject and stay completely serious.
Yeah people like to push this idea of Drake as loveable "treasure hunter" when in fact he's just a two bit hustler that grew up on the streets and spends all his life consorting with a bunch of criminals and low lifes.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
To be fair, the original Uncharted was heavily advertised as being the everyman on an extraordinary adventure vs its space marine/army bro peers. What it lacked in narrative motivation, it made up in theme or what have you.
He is a plumber, fits his character.
SolidSnakex
Member
The brutes in 3 were so boring. I'm hoping that they drop them altogether in 4.
They've been open in the past about not being great at boss design in the series. I'm not really sure what they can do to remedy it aside from sidestepping the issue altogether like they did with TLoU. Or they could make the boss into some sort of vehicle setpiece which could be interesting.
No, but he plunders medallions and statutes and stuff from the environment, which I doubt he responsibly turns over to local museums at no cost.
Yea, but that'd be because you only know the story in hindsight. So the actions would appear justified, as the context would appear to drive them.
However, the enemy could very well not be ISIS. It could simply be another bunch of thieves that want the treasure as much as your professor does, and are willing to kill to get it (kinda like how your professor is). This is basically UC1, where neither Drake, nor his enemy has rightful claim to the treasure, but both are trying to take it anyway. The only real difference between them is that they "shot first", and have (hilariously) larger numbers. Drake only motivation was to get the treasure first, ahead of what simply appeared to be a well-funded merc team. You may cheer when you read their account of how they stopped some big worldly threat... but would you do the same if you were they with them, and this big threat didn't currently appear to exist, and you could all quite easily have just gone home?
In UC2, I imagine I killed about 10 or so of those blue guys, tops. They're basically a rounding error compared to the human kill count.
Technically
David
Gravy Boat
Member
Are posts like this serious?
ultratruman
Banned
Apply what you consider concrete reality to any game and you'll have the same effect. Mario is a psychopath, Yoshi is deliberately incontinent, Tony Hawk is an immortal deity, Earthworm Jim is a colonial oppressor etc etc. It's not criticism, it's cheap transcendentalism.
OmegaTreeFish
Banned
That's exactly what they should do. it really doesn't need bosses. Why not some clever timed puzzle / platform situation. Play to the games strengths.
The standard boss they try and do is kind of archaic and doesn't fit into the world they created. I remember people saying the main boss in 2 was hard but I remember on normal him being easy but not fun at all. Really boring in fact.
I also hate their idea of difficulty for crushing. Just give you no health and make the enemies super accurate. It totally breaks the games cover system. They need to have higher difficulties that have different enemy placements and better tactics instead. Then it would actually be fun.
apologies. when you have a guy saying that anyone who holds an alternate viewpoint seriously is someone they consider an idiot, it's hard to tell who is joking and who isn't.
Ghost Slayer
Member
I have some ideas like a boss who drop claymore bombs that force Nate move carefully or a boss who always shoot you first that force Nate stealth kill from behind.
Death Metalist
Member
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
Say we're witnessing the events of the first game live via news, first hand accounts and social media. Maybe Elena keeps her camera going and it's streamed live.
The world comes to know this guy who claims he's related to Sir Francis and he's on to something big. We watch him "defile an empty coffin" and find another clue. "Whoa" we all think.
Then fucking modern day pirates show up firing on them. We cheer this Drake guy on and hope for his survival.
Everything goes quiet. "Any updates on that treasure?" people ask.
Then we hear how they found something BIG, dudes showed up posing a threat and murdered his friend.
Then we get the feed again. They're flying to a mysterious island... AND THEY'RE SHOT DOWN!
Everything I read about this after that is in full support even if he tweets a joke about a pirate who's neck he'd just snapped. It might be excessive, but he isn't a bloodthirsty monster to me.
Dick Justice
Banned
This reminds me of when people started taking the "PC Master Race" joke seriously.
like.a.ser
Member
People aren't serious when they say this. *reads thread* Oh.
Honestly, I expect to kill a lot during the course of most video games. "Cinematic storytelling" is nice and all, but not even close to being as important to me as whether or not I had fun playing it. At the other extreme, if Uncharted were a visual novel I'd skip it altogether.
Honestly, I expect to kill a lot during the course of most video games. "Cinematic storytelling" is nice and all, but not even close to being as important to me as whether or not I had fun playing it. At the other extreme, if Uncharted were a visual novel I'd skip it altogether.
Fair enough, to be fair I'm going back and forth a bit between serious (or at least as serious as serious as I can get about this subject) and joking.
Dr. Jones has more noble intentions than Drake, even though he's robbing his poor students of thier hard earned education ;_;
I think it's a multipart series too.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
LOL. Perfect!
hydrophilic attack
Member
Yes, because going to a club in a sexy outfit is totally the same as actively going against hundreds of pirates. The fuck am I reading
Apparently I missed the point where this thread went completely off the deep end.
those kids were in college in the 30s. they had no future.
Mr. Nice_Guy
Member
That was one of my favorite parts of that game. I would love to see stuff like that in Uncharted 4.
Just laughed out loud on the metro.
Alright cool. I can see where you're coming from. As long as he didn't start it, then any body count, and rampant murders are perfectly justified. You should have just said that instead then, as it's simply a case of "as long as I don't like the other guys", rather than the person you're watching actually doing something for the benefit of anyone other than himself.
Also, you're crazy if you think you'd be watching a live stream, lol. They were looking to cut Elena loose, to prevent even her and her colleagues knowing about the treasure. They wanted to be rich, not see it in a museum.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
The stream tipped the pirates off.
Itsatwist!
Edit: but I'm not saying he can kill if he didn't start it. But I won't show sympathy for an evil group. In both instances, he was attacked while he was persuing the treasure on his own. He spends a chunk of the game wanting to escape before Elena convinces him to go on.
You know, the thing that really gets under my skin about this topic is the way people insist the other side must be kidding, or didn't come up with it themselves; either we're being dishonest or we're being a hive mind. That's a convenient strawman.
I am not going to insist you have to agree with me, but when I played Uncharted one blind, only knowing it was an Indiana Jones style game, I found the sudden tone shift where it goes from being mostly about adventuring/climbing/exploring to just as much about shooting people very jarring.
The games sure are fun but Drake sure is callous about risking lives and shooting people.
Funny that the more a game tries to feel like a movie, the more likely that the gamey aspects are dissonant from the plot/characterization.
All that said, I'm sure as hell still going to play Uncharted 4.
See? Like clockwork. Anyone who disagrees just has to be stupid or kidding. Well, I'm pretty sure I'm not stupid, nor am I kidding.
Fancy Clown
Member
It's a stupid "criticism" by people who either don't understand tone, or are being willfully obtuse.
It's a pulp adventure, you fight bad guys, you're a good guy, they attack first. That's all there is to it.
It's a pulp adventure, you fight bad guys, you're a good guy, they attack first. That's all there is to it.
I don't know, I think gameplay and cutscenes complement each other in The Last of Us.
But what is his motivation? With Lara, her blood thirsty rampage is a result of her psychopathy, hence her remarking just how easy it was to kill.
Is Drake a sociopath or a psychopath? Is he a product of his environment or was he born without empathy? I must know. If Crystal Dynamics can explain Lara's psychopathy, surely Naughty Dog can explain Nathan Drake's blood thirsty rampages with a similarly appropriate origin story.
Kssio_Aug
Member
Yeah, but my point is that the story does never start in an emergency sitatuation like that. They put themselves in those situations cause they want treasures.
In Uncharted 1 Drake is attacked by pirates in a boat when trying to find a treasure. After that it leads him to an island where he and his friend gets attacked by pirates, but they keep going anyway. Actually, it seems Uncharted 1 is the the only game where their journey flows more "naturally" with Nathan's acts, even if not totally justifiable.
In Uncharted 2 Nathan and friends are in a tropical island discussing about stealing a treasure, what lead them to a journey. In Uncharted 3 everything starts when Nathan and Sully tried to deal Drake's ring for dirty money.
I also played Golden Abyss buy I can't remember the story behind this one.
In other words, every Uncharted adventure starts with Nathan Drake searching for treasures. It never started with him trying to save a friend, or with them participating in a war. I know all of this happens in their journey, but everything could have been avoided from start.
However, don't get me wrong. I said I understand the debate about it, but it doesnt mean I toally agree with it either. I believe Uncharted story is more than enough to justify the game itself and way more funny in general than most action games out there. It may not justify why Nathan Drake insists on hunting treasures and killing hordes of enemies, but I never really cared about that while playing. What I like in Uncharted is how pretty much every character is likeable from the start, and how the story besides simple and totally fictional is actually very entertraining.
That's my favorite playstation game. And that's because everything serves to only one purpose: having fun. I actually wished more games were like that (not all of them, but more of them).
I don't actually mind Uncharted being lighthearted. I'm not even sure if I want it being more serious or darker in any way.
I consider Uncharted a very special game for that. Besides all the action, killing and shooting, it's violence never felt trully violent to me. All the time I was just having fun and everything felt like I was playing an adventure action movie. Enemies are there not to make you feel something when hitting their head with a bullet, they're there just so you can keep having fun on action, and that works pretty well in this game.
The Last of Us in the other hand was a much deeper experience (a lot of mixed feelings in a very special story telling). But I'm glad we could experience both, and I believe we can always have space for both.
Effigenius
Member
I kind of treat it like the piracy vs used debate. A couple people are actually serious, everyone else is just having fun.
Yea, but it took her all of 10 seconds to convince him, lol.
The problem here I guess is that at points like that Drake has already more than evened the scored. Those pirates that attacked you? All dead. The ones that chase you into the jungle? All dead, including a couple hundred that you kill by association. There's a point where self-defense stops applying, and Drake goes way beyond that point in every game. In contrast to Lara in TR2013 for example, if they could jump on a boat and just leave, treasure be damned... you think they wouldn't? You think they'd be convinced to just hang around and kill a few hundred more, until it all pays off (remember at this point, there's no greater good introduced still)? There's only one person in the Tomb Raider reboot that fits that mentality, and he was quite clearly categorized as a villain.