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[firehawk12]

I mean there are movies that are supposed to be creepy. Imo the disconnect with anime is the media wants you to feel a certain way watching it, but due to the cultural disconnect it makes you feel completely differently. Also I have no idea what that is.

It's a franchise of films where the whole premise is that a girl gets raped and then she murders her rapists. It's explicitly using sexual assault for the purposes of entertainment, since you're supposed to "celebrate" when she kills her rapists.

And this is before we even think about things like Nazi exploitation films and so on. You can judge any medium harshly if you choose a few examples and use them are pure exemplars.

 

[SomTervo]

There is a sub-culture within this sub-culture that is being an Otaku where you are very aware how fucked and awful anime is, yet you still can't escape it. I watch it because why not? Some of it is really cool but most of it is bad enough that my friends and I get some really fucking good laughs out of watching it together.

I watched anime during my formative years, sadly, so it's always stuck with me. I still watch anime, but I hate that because 99% of it is atrocious, my opinion that some of it is great like EVA and JoJo is completely written off by everyone. My girlfriend abhorrently REFUSES to even humor the idea of watching anime. I can't even show her things like EVA and JoJo, because unless you are already exposed to the bad intolerable parts like how EVA sexualizes its characters or Araragi's obsession with Hachikuji in Monogatari, the whole thing is ruined. A lot of anime fans just completely ignore those parts in order to enjoy the good parts, or like me, laugh them off because they are hilariously bad. People who aren't used to it though can't do that and it makes even the greatest anime impenetrable.

It is what it is, because yeah fuck Naruto and all the awful fetish fan-service shit, but it would be sick if people were at least a bit more open to the idea that not every animation that comes out of Japan is hot garbage, entirely at least.

Really refreshing to read this.

Great anime is great fiction and art regardless of the tropes, but even the great stuff has insidious strains of the problematic and horrible content which is endemic to 90% of anime. And the bulk of that general output is bad.

Did you watch Psycho Pass? It has a good story with good characters and there is literally no sexual objectification. There isn't even a romantic subplot. It's amazing.

It's the only anime I've ever watched that I can say that about.

 

[Jarmel]

Then Stumpokapow was right; it's a content issue, the hardcore fans won't compromise, and that's why anime isn't and won't be mainstream.

I guess that was instructive.

Fanservice is in every medium. Comic books have people stripping and have impossible body types. Nobody writes off Arrow solely due to the Salmon Ladder.

 

[Tohsaka]

Then Stumpokapow was right; it's a content issue, the hardcore fans won't compromise, and that's why anime isn't and won't be mainstream.

I guess that was instructive.

Well, I was mostly addressing his post on why there is fanservice period. I could name a number of shows airing this season alone that don't really have any of it. I was just pointing out that it is prevalent because people enjoy it, but not every show features it.

 

[dity]

Then Stumpokapow was right; it's a content issue, the hardcore fans won't compromise, and that's why anime isn't and won't be mainstream.

I guess that was instructive.

I feel this makes the most sense.

 

[Ol No Bones]

I learned how to emotions from anime. I have navigated through various relationships with life skills I observed in anime.

 

[firehawk12]

Fanservice is in every medium. Comic books have people stripping and have impossible body types. Nobody writes off Arrow solely due to the Salmon Ladder.

I feel like there's a reason why they promoted the show with these posters anyway.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Really refreshing to read this.

Great anime is great fiction and art regardless of the tropes, but even the great stuff has insidious strains of the problematic and horrible content which is endemic to 90% of anime. And the bulk of that general output is bad.

Did you watch Psycho Pass? It has a good story with good characters and there is literally no sexual objectification. There isn't even a romantic subplot. It's amazing.

It's the only anime I've ever watched that I can say that about.

Is this a serious post?

 

[Lunar15]

I think there's a ton of cultural gaps that can't really be crossed by the general mainstream. I think anime is a "thing" in the mind of the collective "mainstream geek culture", and the general idea of what it is and basic popular ideas "mechs, teen angst, weird stuff" is definitely part of the greater conversation. But the more specific elements of anime really can't breach the general conversation because there's still that bigger cultural gap, what with idols and moe culture, but also general japanese lifestyle things that don't translate very well. So when you have westerners that immerse themselves in that kind of stuff, it just comes off as really foreign, weird, and unapproachable in a lot of cases.

Also, western made media can accomodate itself to attract the wider western mainstream. A bit harder for japanese media to all of a sudden go after that market.

 

[……forgetit]

No one would burn all books because 50 Shades of Grey is basically a long badly written rape-fantasy.

If you ask animeGAF for titles with specific content or lack of that specific content you will get instanly an insanely amount of names of anime titles.
But this thread is just an excuse of confirmation bias and just plain bashing. Even the big comics like Batman, Spider-Man or X-men are selling <100k.

Only because there are successful movies for the mainstream to avoid comics and the surrounded culture doesn't make the hobby more mainstream. It's a pretty big delusion but that's the narrative here.

For the record I'm not against anime and knows there's a ton of stuff out there that's not considered this way, it's just a stigma that you have to acknowledge exists and is a big reason why it's not mainstream. Also comics ARE mainstream, Lord of the rings is also mainstream but you don't see massive sales for the two towers. Being mainstream culturally and having mainstream success aren't the same thing.

Fanservice is in every medium. Comic books have people stripping and have impossible body types. Nobody writes off Arrow solely due to the Salmon Ladder.

Because Ollie isn't 12?

 

[Russ T]

Is this a serious post?

Hey, the first season is good, at least!

 

[sneakydomo]

Thought it was pretty clear but the actions of trying to defend something ridiculous so vehemently is what is being mocked and ridiculed. But instead of the fans saying "hey, maybe there is something a bit creepy here" they instead want to pretend they're being unjustly persecuted. They're not outcasts for liking Anime. They're outcasts for defending the creepy aspects found in much of it.

I've watched 70 anime shows and movies in the last 2 years. I would feel comfortable watching all but 3 with my mother. I feel like a lot of people are painting with a very broad brush that happens to be dipped in either xenophobia or outright ignorance.

 

[Kinyou]

Thought it was pretty clear but the actions of trying to defend something ridiculous so vehemently is what is being mocked and ridiculed. But instead of the fans saying "hey, maybe there is something a bit creepy here" they instead want to pretend they're being unjustly persecuted. They're not outcasts for liking Anime. They're outcasts for defending the creepy aspects found in much of it.

So they are actually outcasts and not just imagining to be one. For a different reason you say, but that doesn't mean it's made up.

Also, I'm not so sure if a person who publicly enjoys Kill la kill will fare so much better than a person who enjoys it and defends it.

 

[SomTervo]

Is this a serious post?

Yes - am I missing something obvious?

Edit: every single anime I can think of - even ones I love and are great imo - feature awful moments of sexual objectification, weird tonal pacing, inconsistent writing. I literally can't think of one that doesn't (except Psycho Pass S01), and I'm not using 'literally' in a fluffy sense. EVA has it. Titan has it. Bebop has it. Trigun has it. Alchemist has it... I could go on. I'm echoing what the person I responded to said.

The only show I've seen which didn't have a single instant of that was Season One of Psycho Pass. Female protagonist doesn't have a romance plot. Sassy sexy lady Psycho turns out to be

Spoiler

a lesbian in a really well written scene where it's not important at all - perfectly handled.

I can't think of any sexualised female characters otherwise.

Is there a second season which goes off the deep end?

 

[firehawk12]

I think there's a ton of cultural gaps that can't really be crossed by the general mainstream. I think anime is a "thing" in the mind of the collective "mainstream geek culture", and the general idea of what it is and basic popular ideas "mechs, teen angst, weird stuff" is definitely part of the greater conversation. But the more specific elements of anime really can't breach the general conversation because I think there's still that bigger cultural gap, what with idols and moe culture, but also general japanese lifestyle things that don't translate very well. So when you have westerners that immerse themselves in that kind of stuff, it just comes off as really foreign, weird, and unapproachable in a lot of cases.

This is probably one of the major reasons. Even in the comic book community, how many people actually read or care about French comics because of the language barrier and because it's "foreign"? Hell, I'm sure there are people who think 2000 AD is weird and that's only British. lol

 

[Jarmel]

I feel like there's a reason why they promoted the show with these posters anyway.

Nobody gives a shit that Arrow does this.

 

[Maedhros]

Yes - am I missing something obvious?

The part where you are wrong.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

For the record I'm not against anime and knows there's a ton of stuff out there that's not considered this way, it's just a stigma that you have to acknowledge exists and is a big reason why it's not mainstream. Also comics ARE mainstream, Lord of the rings is also mainstream but you don't see massive sales for the two towers. Being mainstream culturally and having mainstream success aren't the same thing.

Comics are most certainly not mainstream, some comics are like some anime and manga are but the vast majority is niche.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Hey, the first season is good, at least!

I mean, regardless of your opinion of the quality of Psychopass saying that it is the only anime ever to have "literally no sexual objectification" is the height of stupidity.

 

[PdotMichael]

For the record I'm not against anime and knows there's a ton of stuff out there that's not considered this way, it's just a stigma that you have to acknowledge exists and is a big reason why it's not mainstream. Also comics ARE mainstream, Lord of the rings is also mainstream but you don't see massive sales for the two towers. Being mainstream culturally and having mainstream success aren't the same thing.

Mainstream is maybe an even worse buzzword here than creepy. Is like there is only Marvel Hollywood movie adaptation kind of mainstream and pedotainment.

Many things aren't mainstream but big with a dedicated and healthy group of consumers.

 

[Shig]

Fanservice is in every medium. Comic books have people stripping and have impossible body types. Nobody writes off Arrow solely due to the Salmon Ladder.

Every medium has fanservice, but most medium's fanservice isn't quite so overt and intrinsic to their appeal, nor focused overwhelmingly on under-18 girls. That's the disconnect.

 

[Jarmel]

Because Ollie isn't 12?

And how many shows have 12 year olds in them? Most take place in high school or junior high.

Every medium has fanservice, but most medium's fanservice isn't quite so overt and intrinsic to their appeal or focused overwhelmingly on under-18 girls. That's the disconnect.

How the hell do you distinguish a 16 year old drawn girl from a 18 year old drawn girl? Not to mention the difference in animators and their drawing styles in that a character designer might make the characters look older than how they appear and another younger.

And loli stuff is nowhere near as prevalent as some of you make it out to be.

 

[SomTervo]

The part where you are wrong.

Great job.

Wrong about what exactly? You are not helping me here. I might even fucking agree with you if you start communicating like a human being.

I mean, regardless of your opinion of the quality of Psychopass saying that it is the only anime ever to have "literally no sexual objectification" is the height of stupidity.

Please respond this to me if it's about my post.

I can't think of another anime without this - but I never said I've seen every anime.

I watched a bit of Mushishi and that seemed to be dodging the bullet, but I never followed through with it.

And I suppose I'm talking about anime TV-series here.

Yes, shit I just realised of course I'm not including cinematic anime, eg Ghibli, or any children-focused anime here. That's my bad. I'm talking about mature/adult TV entertainment. I should have stated that originally. Painting with strokes too broad.

It could be inferred from the context of the person I was originally responding to, though.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

So they are actually outcasts and not just imagining to be one.

Also, I'm not so sure if a person who publicly enjoys Kill la kill will fare so much better than a person who enjoys it and defends it.

Their reason for feeling like outcasts is imagined. As stated, it's alone not for liking Anime. Also, I publicly enjoy Kill la Kill, and have never felt like an outcast. But I'm also capable of recognizing the problematic parts of media I consume and not feel the need to defend it. When I say I like the show, and the response is "it's kind of creepy" my response is "haha, yeah, it kind of is" rather than "nuh-uh, it's just cultural differences blahblahblah". It's just like how I love hip-hop but will call out artists who I take issue with in their portrayal of women.

 

[Cornbread78]

The fervor some Anime fans display in order to defend their superior Japanese cartoons is just one of the reasons 'Otaku' are 'outcasts' (or so they want to think of themselves as). I can see it from several posters even in here. You're not doing yourselves any favors by defending the aspects that most people find off putting. That's not to say you can't enjoy it, but to act like a victim because most people find it creepy?

You mean like how Hunter's defend hunting, or how UFC fighter's defend their bloodsport, or how Football defends constant concussions or even how South Park often makes very socially and racially insensitive remarks or commentary? Should they not defend their mediums?

Or is this just your subtle way of saying how much better of a human being you are because you dislike anime? If so, please, let me bow my head to you and grovel in shame because I have watched anime and can appreciate the medium as entertainment...

Anyone from the anime community here knows what they can and cannot defend, there has been a clear precedent set. Everything else in regards to anime has an incredible amount of different opinions and perspectives wrapped around it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

You mean like how Hunter's defend hunting, or how UFC fighter's defend their bloodsport, or how Football defends constant concussions or even how South Park often makes very socially and racially insensitive remarks or commentary? Should they not defend their mediums?

Or is this just your subtle way of saying how much better of a human being you are because you dislike anime? If so, please, let me bow my head to you and grovel in shame because I have watched anime and can appreciate the medium as entertainment...

Anyone from the anime community here knows what they can and cannot defend, there has been a clear precedent set. Everything else in regards to anime has an incredible amount of different opinions and perspectives wrapped around it.

Spoiler: I like Anime. I even like Kill la Kill.

Edit: I even like *gasp* some Hentai. I know, so lewd.

 

[Russ T]

I mean, regardless of your opinion of the quality of Psychopass saying that it is the only anime ever to have "literally no sexual objectification" is the height of stupidity.

Yeah for sure, I just wanted to be a goofball.

Mushishi, for example, has no sexualization! Or romance!

 

[SomTervo]

Yeah for sure, I just wanted to be a goofball.

Mushishi, for example, has no sexualization! Or romance!

I mentioned that exact show in a follow-up post.

I'm right here, you guys.

 

[NaDannMaGoGo]

Great job.

Wrong about what exactly? You are not helping me here. I might even fucking agree with you if you start communicating like a human being.

Well, for once I recall there being some, albeit a very low amount, of fanservice after all. Some shower shots, Kougami training shirtless and dunno if some of the portrayals of the victims (first episode for example) wasn't showing nudity needlessly, too (not that all nudity is sexual fanservice, just saying that I can't recall just how exactly some of it was framed etc.).

However, it's low on sexual fanservice, especially one of young teenagers.

 

[……forgetit]

And how many shows have 12 year olds in them? Most take place in high school or junior high.



How the hell do you distinguish a 16 year old drawn girl from a 18 year old drawn girl? Not to mention the difference in animators and their drawing styles in that a character designer might make the characters look older than how they appear and another younger.

And loli stuff is nowhere near as prevalent as some of you make it out to be.

Not saying it is as prevalent as people say, but the stigma certainly is.

 

[patapuf]

Then Stumpokapow was right; it's a content issue, the hardcore fans won't compromise, and that's why anime isn't and won't be mainstream.

I guess that was instructive.

I don't think that's all there is to it, there is definetly some issue with content but imo, more than creepy fanservice, the biggest hurdle anime faces in the west is that animation is considered for kids.

Stuff like Naruto manages to pierce through even today. The old 90's boom was also kids/all ages shows for the most part.

Even if there wasn't as many shows with fanservice stuff the good shows for an older audience would still be niche.

France has big tradition with comics, and manga is more popular there. A culture of comics/animation also being a worthwhile medium to read is important for that kind of stories also be sucessful.

 

[SomTervo]

Well, for once I recall there being some, albeit a very low amount, of fanservice after all. Some shower shots, Kougami training shirtless and dunno if some of the portrayals of the victims (first episode for example) wasn't showing nudity needlessly, too (not that all nudity is sexual fanservice, just saying that I can't recall just how exactly some of it was framed etc.).

However, it's low on sexual fanservice, especially one of young teenagers.

That's the thing - all the nudity/objectification in the show was borne of context. People are naked or look sexy because of the context.

Compare that to any other mature anime TV show I can think of where people arbitrarily look super sexy (usually very out of context), or happen to be caught just out the shower, or yadda yadda the million other things which are for some odd reason 'OK' to happen every other episode. Knights of Sidonia was fucking rampant with it.

I'm not really talking about the young teenagers thing at all here.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Nobody gives a shit that Arrow does this.

I do, and I voice it in the OT thread.

 

[SomTervo]

Their reason for feeling like outcasts is imagined. As stated, it's alone not for liking Anime. Also, I publicly enjoy Kill la Kill, and have never felt like an outcast. But I'm also capable of recognizing the problematic parts of media I consume and not feel the need to defend it. When I say I like the show, and the response is "it's kind of creepy" my response is "haha, yeah, it kind of is" rather than "nuh-uh, it's just cultural differences blahblahblah". It's just like how I love hip-hop but will call out artists who I take issue with in their portrayal of women.

You're right about this, and I'm in exactly the same boat.

I love many anime shows, and I'm not afraid to publicly say that, and I'm not afraid to highlight what is often (highly) problematic about them.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

Edit: every single anime I can think of - even ones I love and are great imo - feature awful moments of sexual objectification, weird tonal pacing, inconsistent writing. I literally can't think of one that doesn't (except Psycho Pass S01), and I'm not using 'literally' in a fluffy sense. EVA has it. Titan has it. Bebop has it. Trigun has it. Alchemist has it... I could go on. I'm echoing what the person I responded to said.

The only show I've seen which didn't have a single instant of that was Season One of Psycho Pass. Female protagonist doesn't have a romance plot. Sassy sexy lady Psycho turns out to be

Spoiler

a lesbian in a really well written scene where it's not important at all - perfectly handled.

I can't think of any sexualised female characters otherwise.

Is there a second season which goes off the deep end?

Are we talking about "sexual objectification" here or writing quality? I am going to confine my further comments to the former, since the latter is another issue and one that Psychopass was heavily, heavily criticized for when it aired. (I have not seen it, so I will take no personal stance as to its quality.)

At any rate, it seems like your experience in anime is quite limited. All I have to do is point out that there's a lot of anime out there that is specifically intended for children and families, something that often goes missed in these sorts of discussions. You can go all the way back to 1969 (or earlier, but we'll go there) and the establishment of World Masterpiece Theater, which adapted children's literature from around the world including Heidi, A Dog of Flanders, and Anne of Green Gables. Continue by looking at the films that attracted the most attention in Japan, Miyazaki productions such as Spirited Away, family franchises such as Doraemon and Detective Conan, and Hosoda films such as Wolf Children. Also look at daytime kids and family shows such as Mainichi Kaasan and Shin Atashinchi, as well as late-night shows of a serious, grounded nature such as Mushishi, Shounen Hollywood, and Ping Pong. Then come back and we can have a more informed conversion about sex in anime.

 

[Shig]

How the hell do you distinguish a 16 year old drawn girl from a 18 year old drawn girl?

A work explicitly stating the character's age is a pretty good signifier, I feel.

I'll never understand this "it's a drawing, they could be any age!" argument. If the source material states that the character is 15, the character is 15. They could have drawn that same character and said they're 18, but... they didn't. Fetishizing an age group that's kind of bad news to fetishize is such an easily avoidable outcome, but the industry is not only not trying to avoid it, they're actively targeting it. That's damning.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Is it though? (It's not)

Have you looked at any seasonal charts and seen just how many shows are ecchi? It's like, two a season most of the time.



Well, you had Space Dandy last year and both Funimation and Crunchyroll are gearing up to co produce series. Simuldubbing is probably pretty useful for getting a series more exposure. Who knows.

Ecchi isnt the only offputting fanservice. There's:

Moe shit where nothing ever happens
Gomen gomen gomen gomen
Notice me sempai
Waifu
Melodrama
Confusing and nonsensical narratives
Shallow characters
Moe

Not all anime of course, but so much of it is just... bad.

 

[Jarmel]

A work explicitly stating the character's age is a pretty good signifier, I feel.

I'll never understand this "it's a drawing, they could be any age!" argument. If the source material states that the character is 15, the character is 15. They could have drawn that same character and said they're 18, but... they didn't. Fetishizing an age group that's kind of bad news to fetishize is such an easily avoidable outcome, but the industry is not only not trying to avoid it, they're actively targeting it. That's damning.

So if a work states someone is 1000 then they're 1000?

 

[SomTervo]

Are we talking about "sexual objectification" here or writing quality? I am going to confine my further comments to the former, since the latter is another issue and one that Psychopass was heavily, heavily criticized for when it aired. (I have not seen it, so I will take no personal stance as to its quality.)

At any rate, it seems like your experience in anime is quite limited. All I have to do is point out that there's a lot of anime out there that is specifically intended for children and families, something that often goes missed in these sorts of discussions. You can go all the way back to 1969 (or earlier, but we'll go there) and the establishment of World Masterpiece Theater, which adapted children's literature from around the world including Heidi, A Dog of Flanders, and Anne of Green Gables. Continue by looking at the films that attracted the most attention in Japan, Miyazaki productions such as Spirited Away, family franchises such as Doraemon and Detective Conan, and Hosoda films such as Wolf Children. Also look at daytime kids and family shows such as Mainichi Kaasan and Shin Atashinchi, as well as late-night shows of a serious, grounded nature such as Mushishi, Shounen Hollywood, and Ping Pong. Then come back and we can have a more informed conversion about sex in anime.

Thanks for the response. If you scrolled down slightly you'd see that I responded to you again but defined my argument a bit more - this is entirely my bad, sorry. I realised I wasn't including children's anime or anything cinematic. I was talking just about TV dramas basically - like a 'HBO vs AMC' discussion, but about the equivalent in anime. That's the stuff I've watched the most of, but I'm aware of plenty of child/family-friendly anime which obviously doesn't fit this. This is the post where I realise my bad rhetoric:

I mean, regardless of your opinion of the quality of Psychopass saying that it is the only anime ever to have "literally no sexual objectification" is the height of stupidity.

Please respond this to me if it's about my post.

I can't think of another anime without this - but I never said I've seen every anime.

I watched a bit of Mushishi and that seemed to be dodging the bullet, but I never followed through with it.

And I suppose I'm talking about anime TV-series here.

Yes, shit I just realised of course I'm not including cinematic anime, eg Ghibli, or any children-focused anime here. That's my bad. I'm talking about mature/adult TV entertainment. I should have stated that originally. Painting with strokes too broad.

It could be inferred from the context of the person I was originally responding to, though.

PS, yes, I was talking only about sexual objectification. The writing quality is another thing altogether. Interested to see what was written about Psycho Pass though. Of course it was far from perfect, but it was unique enough for me to enjoy it more than the sum of its parts.

 

[Klossen]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=princesskaguya.htm

Best movie of 2014. Yet nobody gave a shit about it in the west. Japan won't make the content everyone oh so desires when you don't even fucking watch it. But I guess it's easier to just remain ignorant and hateful of an entire medium spanning decades with countless amount of shows and movies than to take the time to actually find the content that appeals to you.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your statements of the anime medium based on the initial episode of Kill la Kill.

 

[Cornbread78]

Spoiler: I like Anime. I even like Kill la Kill.
Edit: I even like *gasp* some Hentai. I know, so lewd.

Then why would you post something like that, even if you were only a general fan? There isn't a single person on this board that would support and/or defend some of the more flagrant issues that arise from some of the crap pandering to the "otaku" culture, especially when it comes to sexuality in anime.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=princesskaguya.htm

Best movie of 2014. Yet nobody gave a shit about it in the west. Japan won't make the content everyone oh so desires when you don't even fucking watch it. But I guess it's easier to just remain ignorant and hateful of an entire medium spanning decades with countless amount of shows and movies than to take the time to actually find the content that appeals to you.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your statements of the anime medium based on the initial episode of Kill la Kill.

Hey we actually watched it in France !

Even though Disney did a shitty job promoting it.

 

[sneakydomo]

A work explicitly stating the character's age is a pretty good signifier, I feel.

I'll never understand this "it's a drawing, they could be any age!" argument. If the source material states that the character is 15, the character is 15. They could have drawn that same character and said they're 18, but... they didn't. Fetishizing an age group that's kind of bad news to fetishize is such an easily avoidable outcome, but the industry is not only not trying to avoid it, they're actively targeting it. That's damning.

So the characters that are rotoscoped from real actors in Flowers of Evil that are supposedly in middle school but look like they are 25, since the actor are in their late 20's, I should treat as minors. Got it.

 

[dimb]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=princesskaguya.htm

Best movie of 2014. Yet nobody gave a shit about it in the west. Japan won't make the content everyone oh so desires when you don't even fucking watch it. But I guess it's easier to just remain ignorant and hateful of an entire medium spanning decades with countless amount of shows and movies than to take the time to actually find the content that appeals to you.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your statements of the anime medium based on the initial episode of Kill la Kill.

Its theater run in the U.S. was pretty limited, and came very, very late. Of course it's not going to pull in much from the box office. G.Kids can only do so much. The entire premise of this thread is ridiculous though, and come's from the inflated ego of someone who professionally covers anime.

 

[Russ T]

I mentioned that exact show in a follow-up post.

I'm right here, you guys.

I wasn't trying to ignore you or even argue with you indirectly, just responding to the posts I saw. (Also made a flippant joke about the quality of Psycho Pass in general! (That second season is seriously bad.))

Suffice it to say there are a ton of series without any sexualization or creep-factor to them. And there are also a not-insignificant amount with sexualization (or, more accurately, sexuality) used correctly - i.e., not just fanservice, but an actual real piece of the story.

As is the case with basically every medium of entertainment, the popular trash is up at the front at all times. You have to dig to find the good stuff. That takes effort, whether it's anime or video games or comic books or whatever. Anime's just harder for people like us because it's, well, foreign.

---

For an example of an extremely popular Western work that has blatant sexualization issues that people either ignore or criticize while enjoying the rest of it, you can look at the HBO series Game of Thrones.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Then why would you post something like that, even if you were only a general fan? There isn't a single person on this board that would support and/or defend some of the more flagrant issues that arise from some of the crap pandering to the "otaku" culture, especially when it comes to sexuality in anime.

Because I recognize there's a prevalent mindset in the anime community that is off-putting. Despite what you think, there is very much a fanbase who support/defend the 'more flagrant' issues in anime (even here on GAF). There's a reason I don't participate in Anime GAF, or any real Anime community. Then there's that whole thing where some make it such a part of their identity (going as far as to make it their avatars), that they feel the need to defend the entire medium. It's the same issue gaming has with those who self-identify as 'gamers' and begin a crusade when people dare look at things under another scope. So naturally I just find the whole persecutory delusion to be silly and unwarranted.

 

[MHWilliams]

There isn't a single person on this board that would support and/or defend some of the more flagrant issues that arise from some of the crap pandering to the "otaku" culture, especially when it comes to sexuality in anime.

I disagree with Noblesse's original assessment, but this isn't true at all. Some people absolutely will defend it. On here and especially on gaming side.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=princesskaguya.htm

Best movie of 2014. Yet nobody gave a shit about it in the west. Japan won't make the content everyone oh so desires when you don't even fucking watch it. But I guess it's easier to just remain ignorant and hateful of an entire medium spanning decades with countless amount of shows and movies than to take the time to actually find the content that appeals to you.

But hey, don't let me interrupt your statements of the anime medium based on the initial episode of Kill la Kill.

I liked Kaguya, but if you expected it to have further traction here in US, I'm mystified. Dragon Ball Z beat it easily in domestic release.

 

[Russ T]

Because I recognize there's a prevalent mindset in the anime community that is off-putting. Despite what you think, there is very much a fanbase who support/defend the 'more flagrant' issues in anime (even here on GAF). There's a reason I don't participate in Anime GAF, or any real Anime community. Then there's that whole thing where some make it such a part of their identity (going as far as to make it their avatars), that they feel the need to defend the entire medium. It's the same issue gaming has with those who self-identify as 'gamers' and begin a crusade when people dare look at things under another scope. So naturally I just find the whole persecutory delusion to be silly and unwarranted.

I have an anime avatar and I don't defend the whole medium!

I self-identify as a gamer and I criticize the elements of gaming that need to be criticized!

 

[enanogrande]

Anime won’t hit the mainstream until American audiences regard animation as a whole as a medium suited to more than just kid shows and comedy. Add to that the stigma around Anime and pedo stuff, and yeah I can understand why it’s harder for even the good anime series to reach the mainstream.

 

[partyphone]

some people in here are so close, yet so far, from understanding the problem. all anime isn't creepy bullshit. you don't need to waste time defending anime's virtue. but you have to admit that anime has a creepy bullshit problem on top of the more general "cartoons are for kids" problem. being so defensive about it just makes things worse.