Otaku USA: As “Geek” Culture Assimilates, “Otaku” Remain Outcasts

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Staccat0 said:
Anime got worse
Other stuff got, if not better, easier to engage
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I've always told myself that I could watch almost anything before 1999. Imo stuff after 98 requires some extreme vetting. It's common that I'm left with just one prospect worth checking out each season. Most of the time there's nothing and I always find myself asking if it's even worth coming back in a few months. Wondering if I even like anime.

However, classic anime recommendation topics made here on GAF outside of the regular Anime OTs were helpful. Problem is I've now seen a lot of what's recommended. Need to get more obscure.
 
I can't believe people actually think niche shows like some of those in the anime OT are whats mainstream and then apply those standards throughout the entire medium.

Mainstream anime right now would be stuff like DBZ, Naruto, Evangelion, Attack on Titan and such. Also is it me or is this title insinuating anime watchers as being inherently otaku when its just a small sub culture of the audience.

hirokazu said:
I remember when my friends came over and one of them put on Kill La Kill and they're like "When I watched the first episode I knew this show was gonna be awesome. It's such a great show." So we watched the first episode. First it was OK if a bit hyperactive and then it totally jumps the shark and turns to crap. "So what did you think? So cool, right?" "Uh... Yeeeeeah... Okay... I guess..." >_>

And so I never watched another episode of that again.
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KLK is shit and you will find a lot of the anime community will agree with that notion. It had so much potential but squandered it in record time.
 
Snkfanatic said:
Wow

I love this forum and it's complete acceptance of bullshit posts like this.
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You mean the post that had an immediately flurry of retorts?

And a follow up clarification?

You're mad at the (incorrect) thought that no-one on Neogaf would bat an eye if someone takes cheap pot shots at anime enthusiasts?

I'm mad that anime enthusiasts don't bat an eye at the fact that the public limelight of the anime medium is focused on shows that are painful to watch because of the amount of cheap sexualisation of minors.

But I mean those are my hangups.
 
Qblivion said:
I wonder why
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I knew this would involve Valkyrie Drive before I even clicked.

Pretty much a perfect example of why the "otaku" crowd is singled out. I feel like theres a lot more visibility on what's airing in Japan but stuff like that doesnt really represent everything that's popular - but most people wouldn't know that just seeing the content in passing
 
I personally think otaku's aren't rejects because of anime, but they identify with anime because they're rejects. So...wouldn't really call anime otaku culture. The surge of pandering moe anime is just because, hey, a large audience who consumes anime likes it. Therefore why not?

Don't jump on me GAF.
 
zelas said:
I've always told myself that I could watch almost anything before 1999. Imo stuff after 98 requires some extreme vetting. It's common that I'm left with just one prospect worth checking out each season. Most of the time there's nothing and I always find myself asking if it's even worth coming back in a few months. Wondering if I even like anime.

However, classic anime recommendation topics made here on GAF outside of the regular Anime OTs were helpful. Problem is I've now seen a lot of what's recommended. Need to get more obscure.
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Well, always feel free to stop by and ask for recs. Everybody hates everyone's favorite anime, so you'll definitely get a good rec based on different opinions. Some people strive just to watch the most obscure $hit, and are coming from different backgrounds, so they are sure to find something for you to watch.

Either way, outside of the typical NeoGAF hate for anime by some (very vocal) members, the community here (AnimeGAF) is much, MUCH more tolerable than your typical Anime forums. Browsing and trying to communicate with those forums is a completely insufferable experience.
The community threads are specifically set-up for these "Special Interest Groups" to band together based on common interests

With that being said, I've been with NeoGAF for over 6 years now and just started watching anime in the past year, just to play a GAME (friggen' SAO, lol) . How easily everyone forgets the reason they originally registered here anyway. We are all part of our own geek culture here and games may be more widely accepted, however, "gamers" are shunned as socially awkward just as much as comic, cartoon, manga, anime, or those guys running around the park during the summer with their foam swords and shields, dressed up like knights and warriors. I remember going through H.S only being able to play sports, action/adventure and fighting games with buddies because they all hated RPGs and looked down on them; it wasn't "cool" to play rpg style games associated with "nerd" culture.

Trying to 1-up the next "nerd hierarchy/social class" is some N.H.K kinda crap (you see what I did there, of course not..) While it's not OK to $hit post on Nintendo, XBox of Playstation like a fanboy, or being overly aggressive towards any other community here, it has almost become common-place and acceptable to completely crap on anime and "anime avatar" members (whether they are participants int he anime community or not) for liking the medium by stereotyping them severely. The same goes for Vita fans/gamers. I can't remember the last time I scrolled through a thread about a Vita jrpg/or Japanese game that wasn't full of $hitposts about Vita's "core audience" of "perverts," "miscreants" and "loli lovers..."

Thankfully, the mods are usually "generally aware" (sorry, had to put the Patriots reference there) of these posters and will step-in

Generally speaking, it looks like the author in the article is pretty spot on in his assumptions in more ways than one.. as we as a living proof of it here. People just have to love more and hate less. Didn't we learn anything from the 60's, lol.
 
I'd appreciate it that next time you have a problem with me you PM me rather than drag my name through the dirt for pages upon pages while I'm not available to respond (especially in a thread that's unrelated to said post). One PM to request I update the summaries was all it needed. Just calling it "shit", "garbo" and "a joke" isn't constructive since I put in a lot of effort to make it informative, clear, concise while also fun. And to clarify, shows in the OP are a mix of what people in the thread like, they are not a joke.
 
Alex said:
The only way I can ever really enjoy anime anymore is for shit to boil over like this and to have people retaliate by attempting to sift through the endless garbage for me. That's probably doubly an issue especially when I'm someone who grew up watching a ton of the stuff.

You could probably make that argument for a lot of entertainment but it's most difficult of all here, in my opinion. The ratio of junk and pandering is absolutely highest and the curation on any front for it is typically really bad. That's def a side effect of fanservice, fetishes, etc, infiltrating otherwise legitimate products. Happened with a lot of Japanese games too, I used to heavily subsist off of niche Japanese games for this hobby now I barely touch 'em..
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The core issues are that Japanese Otakus are a major source of income, and shows that do break the mold suffer immensely financially for it.
 
jman2050 said:
They don't believe in paying the absurdly expensive prices the distribution channels are offering.
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Anime sections at big retailers were on the rise when 2-episode videocassettes cost $20-30 and were at their peak when 3-5 episode DVDs cost the same. Now, it's gotten to where you can routinely buy entire series collections for $20-50.

Buying anime has become dramatically cheaper in the past few years, yet in the face of this, those store's anime sections have withered to husks of their former glory.

There's a huge chunk of the incoming fanbase that won't pay for something they've already seen, and the ease of getting fansubs immediately as shows air has gotten to where everybody's already seen any show they have interest in well before it gets an official release. They'll pay for merch, but merch isn't nearly so much a vote for "I want more anime like this" like buying the goddamn anime is.
 
Find anime that I like is simple enough, but sometimes I like to discuss it online and thats when the fuckery appears, which is why I prefer when something gets critical or mainstream appeal because it means im gonna get a different crowd beyond the otakus. Its shitty to judge a group on the actions of a few, but in this case its the inaction of the rest that ends up making me eventually tired of dealing with it.
 
Personally I blame "lolis" or whatever it's called. An Anime can make it mainstream, see DBZ, but Anime on it's own never will when it has the stigma of even creeping out other geeks.
 
Anime needs to become mainstream, so we can finally have an absolutely terrible anime-themed Big Bang Theory style show that laughs at otaku weebs instead of with them, and wins comedy awards.
Zimbabwe!
 
BGBW said:
I'd appreciate it that next time you have a problem with me you PM me rather than drag my name through the dirt for pages upon pages while I'm not available to respond (especially in a thread that's unrelated). One PM to request I update the summaries was all it needed. Just calling it "shit", "garbo" and "a joke" isn't constructive since I put in a lot of effort to make it informative, clear, concise while also fun. And to clarify, shows in the OP are a mix of what people in the thread like, they are not a joke.
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Don't worry, you had plenty of support and we all know how much work you put in that OT. If you need help updating anything let me know and I will look things up and assist where I can. If that is what the Mods want us to do, let's just get it done and move on.
 
Never really understand why people have such a difficult time finding the non-otaku stuff. Especially, since that's the stuff (OPM, Gundam, Attack on titan etc...) that generally get the most attention.
 
captainpat said:
Never really understand why people have such a difficult time finding the non-otaku stuff. Especially, since that's the stuff (OPM, Gundam, Attack on titan etc...) that generally get the most attention.
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Not difficult, just an unwillingness to interact with the culture after bring disgusted by the otaku stuff.
 
ElFly said:
I think it's more that American comic books just sell super bad, period, partly due to distribution issues, partly due to continuity and impenetrability, probably other reasons too. They seem to be on a slow recovery due to digital distribution tho.
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Comics shot themselves in the foot with going direct market(IE only selling to comicbook stores). Before then you could find comics anywhere
 
Spork4000 said:
The embarrassing scenes from comics are usually just silly and make people laugh, things like this makes people run for the hills.
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That would imply anyone would read comics. Although the sales numbers don't support the idea that comics are mainstream outside of the dedicated but pretty small circlejerk.

People running the narrative that games and comics are accepted mainstream mediums while in reality only a small set of games and comic culture is accepted.
 
Slayven said:
Comics shot themselves in the foot with going direct market(IE only selling to comicbook stores). Before then you could find comics anywhere
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Probably one of the dumbest business moves in history for any medium.

That's how I got into comics. I later found a local comic shop.
 
Quonny said:
Shokugeki no Soma is fanservice done right. It's hilarious and there is a ton of dude ass in it.
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Yup, (NSFW)
horriblesubs-shokugeki-no-soma-01-720p-mkv_snapshot_02-58_2015-04-06_01-23-30.png
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. There is nothing right, subversive, ironic and all the adjectives people trying to come out with this. Someone even told me that the mangaka used to drawn hentai as if that made tentacle rape okay. And its not like im a puritan, I read Prison School, I can recognize an anime that takes the work to do this stuff right and in a funny way, but trash is trash.
 
JDSN said:
Yup, (NSFW). There is nothing right, subversive, ironic and all the adjectives people trying to come out with this. Someone even told me that the mangaka used to drawn hentai as if that made tentacle rape okay. And its not like im a puritan, I read Prison School, I can recognize an anime that takes the work to do this stuff right and in a funny way, but trash is trash.
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Bayonetta is trash then, right? Just want to make sure I understand where you stand.
 
JDSN said:
Yup, (NSFW). There is nothing right, subversive, ironic and all the adjectives people trying to come out with this. Someone even told me that the mangaka used to drawn hentai as if that made tentacle rape okay. And its not like im a puritan, I read Prison School, I can recognize an anime that takes the work to do this stuff right and in a funny way, but trash is trash.
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guy who made GITS made tons of porn you might find bad if tentacle rape is whats bad.
 
I don't get people who try to dismiss the otaku culture using fanservice or saying that in the past it wasn't like that... The market never really changed since the 90's or even 80's. There's always all types of shows since then (I think that the exception were moe-centric slice of life genre): fanservice centric shows and the others.
 
JDSN said:
Yup, (NSFW). There is nothing right, subversive, ironic and all the adjectives people trying to come out with this. Someone even told me that the mangaka used to drawn hentai as if that made tentacle rape okay. And its not like im a puritan, I read Prison School, I can recognize an anime that takes the work to do this stuff right and in a funny way, but trash is trash.
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I watched the first episode of Food Wars and decided it wasn't for me. I revisited it weeks later and loved it, watched it with my girlfriend. There were a few moments when both her and I teared up. The anime is not trash it is well done and actually very sweet if you watch the whole season, which I'm sure you haven't done. Please keep running your mouth about things you know nothing about.
 
Quonny said:
Shokugeki no Soma is fanservice done right. It's hilarious and there is a ton of dude ass in it.
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LOL, I just watched Soma last week and that is one of the first things I noticed is how it is definitely equal opportunity fanservice. It was so over the top and out of place I could do nothing but laugh, since the anime itself was so good.
 
captainpat said:
Never really understand why people have such a difficult time finding the non-otaku stuff. Especially, since that's the stuff (OPM, Gundam, Attack on titan etc...) that generally get the most attention.
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Kill la Kill also got a lot of attention. A lot of anime talk on the Internet isn't coming from Japanese people who are in Japan. Sadly, the whole creepy anime movement isn't demonized a lot by the Internet, it's an "acquired taste". Kill la Kill was favorited by so many people but it's so fucking lewd. The only shows / movies in anime that are going to be respected and talked about in more western style media is the more mature ones that aren't showing perverted or "sexy acts": Seven Deadly Sins protagonist sexually assaulting the princess every 10 seconds.

This is Chapters in Metrotown:

https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/comic-book-shop/manga/

No Game, No Life and Magicka Swordsman are there, but when you're in the store there's more less normal manga. Unfortunately, whenever people say these are niche of niche and it's at 2:00AM, no, it's in the public eye just as much as the normal stuff. No big media outlet, studio, or network will want to endorse a medium so toxic against women and pervy. You don't have to look far to see how disgusting anime can be.
 
Quonny said:
Bayonetta is trash then, right? Just want to make sure I understand where you stand.
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Nope, Bayonetta is one of the best series in the recent years and while I enjoy the character a lot I have no problem pointing out the problematic stuff without getting defensive, analysis is a cool part of enjoying fictional stuff, making excuses is not. And no, guys getting nude too is not a positive for me or some kind of progressive move.

In fact, I defended all the nudity in Kill La Kill for a long time until it became obvious that it was not parodying anything and was just looking to arouse certain parts of the fanbase.

sensui-tomo said:
guy who made GITS made tons of porn you might find bad if tentacle rape is whats bad.
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Coppola used to do porn, I dont care what the dude behind one of the best cyberpunk works used to do, I judge works on its own. (I only saw the movie tho)

sneakydomo said:
I watched the first episode of Food Wars and decided it wasn't for me. I revisited it weeks later and loved it, watched it with my girlfriend. There were a few moments when both her and I teared up. The anime is not trash it is well done and actually very sweet if you watch the whole season, which I'm sure you haven't done. Please keep running your mouth about things you know nothing about.
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Cool story. Glad you enjoyed it!
 
JDSN said:
Nope, Bayonetta is one of the best series in the recent years and while I enjoy the character a lot I have no problem pointing out the problematic stuff without getting defensive, analysis is a cool part of enjoying fictional stuff, making excuses is not. And no, guys getting nude too is not a positive for me or some kind of progressive move.

In fact, I defended all the nudity in Kill La Kill for a long time until it became obvious that it was not parodying anything and was just looking to arouse certain parts of the fanbase.


Coppola used to do porn, I dont care what the dude behind one of the best cyberpunk works used to do, I judge works on its own. (I only saw the movie tho)


Cool story. Glad you enjoyed it!
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Wait... you used to defend Kill la Kill but Shokugeki no Soma is a no-no? Well ok.
 
Going to NeoGAF to talk about anime is little like going to a country club to talk about rap. The ignorance and prejudices displayed at every turn would've been hilarious, if it wasn't so tragic.
 
sneakydomo said:
Guy obviously hasn't watched the show but feels comfortable trashing it based on a screenshot. Very openminded and insightful.
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I've watched a bit of Sokugeki no Soma and it's about a prodigal boy who goes to a food academy where the top student cook is this busty woman who he's seen naked, also she has feelings for him, so does the blue haired girl, and other shenanigans occur. While not totally awful, it does show you the bad parts of anime because they actually focus on jiggling tits. No amount of "equal display" will change if its pervy or not. Compared to Kill la Kill it's still very tame, but you can see how the creepiness has influenced the show.
 
Stumpokapow said:
My point exactly. There's no descriptive difference between saying "It hasn't broken through because the culture and the content alienate people" and "It hasn't broken through because baka gaijin are too ubuna for mai waifu", right? The content that's not in English could easily be localized -- except that the primary audience in the western world pushes back at efforts to make content more accessible -- and could be tailored towards a non-NEET audience -- except that as you correctly display, the primary audience would call that pandering and reject it.
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You know it's funny that this is exactly what's going on in the Fire Emblem Fates Special Edition announcement/pre-order thread.

There's disagreement over whether or not the Pokemon Amie-like mini game which features some suggestive language and where you pet and rub characters faces would really translate or localize well for Western audiences. Well, some folks are taking it a step further and calling that shit straight up creepy.

And there's others pushing back against those comments stating that they do not wish to see altered or cut content from the game. And wish to play the game as the Japanese developers originally intended for it to be played. Which is understandable. But it's a funny microcosm of this issue you're describing.
 
Cornbread78 said:
LOL, I just watched Soma last week and that is one of the first things I noticed is how it is definitely equal opportunity fanservice. It was so over the top and out of place I could do nothing but laugh, since the anime itself was so good.
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Equal opportunity fanservice needs to be more of a thing.

Could also go for some more Free!
 
RecursiveFault said:
Equal opportunity fanservice needs to be more of a thing.

Could also go for some more Free!
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Why does it need to be a thing? Why have fan service at all? Do you think because a show shows "nude" men with a star over their dick cancels out all the tit bouncing and other more detailed underwear shots?
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Why does it need to be a thing? Why have fan service at all? Do you think because a show shows "nude" men with a star over their dick cancels out all the tit bouncing and other more detailed underwear shots?
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Sure, you are asking the essential questions.

If there are many women who love that stuff like in Free then why not? You can play the game with everything.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Why does it need to be a thing? Why have fan service at all? Do you think because a show shows "nude" men with a star over their dick cancels out all the tit bouncing and other more detailed underwear shots?
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Because a lot of people, of both genders, enjoy it. If you don't, that's fine, but not everything needs to, or is going to, appeal to everyone.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
I've watched a bit of Sokugeki no Soma and it's about a prodigal boy who goes to a food academy where the top student cook is this busty woman who he's seen naked, also she has feelings for him, so does the blue haired girl, and other shenanigans occur. While not totally awful, it does show you the bad parts of anime because they actually focus on jiggling tits. No amount of "equal display" will change if its pervy or not. Compared to Kill la Kill it's still very tame, but you can see how the creepiness has influenced the show.
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I see this word creepy thrown around a lot like it means something. I don't find the show creepy in the least. And if you haven't actually watched the show fully why do you feel it necessary to explain it to someone who has?
 
PdotMichael said:
That would imply anyone would read comics. Although the sales numbers don't support the idea that comics are mainstream outside of the dedicated but pretty small circlejerk.

People running the narrative that games and comics are accepted mainstream mediums while in reality only a small set of games and comic culture is accepted.
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Actually I disagree, accepted and popular I consider different things. If you bring up that you're an advid comic reader to friends or typical people they wouldn't think anything of it because it's not odd, bringing up you're an advid anime watcher and manga reader would get you some odd looks.


For example, I know more people who read manga over reading comics, but if I were to tell a random friend who does neither to read a comic I have they probably would, while of I told them to read a manga they'd be less likely to.
 
Stumpokapow said:
I agree with the article that numerically, anime stuff seems to have a real potency in the marketplace and conventions and events attract tons of people, but comparatively mainstream awareness of those events are lower than more general geek stuff.

I think the title offers a tantalizing clue as to why: geek culture assimilated; anime culture did not, as much. Lots of anime has reached mainstream status (the ubiquity of Dragonball in hip hop culture, the crossover of Studio Ghibli stuff into geek culture, and Pokemon are three examples) but I think part of the reason why anime culture as a whole hasn't is the unwillingness to compromise values and norms to fit in more. Given that the article focuses more on asking why the media aren't covering anime culture, I think that's one of the bigger reasons.
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Not sure how in the long run Japan deals with the thinly veiled CP that's so much a part of of anime "culture." There are plenty of serious animes, and thankfully like the ones you've mentioned they've earned their renown in the west for a large part, but that loli waifu crap didn't reach meme status because of just a random one off series or two. It's pervasive in the mainstream over there now, and that's just never gonna fly in the west, no matter how hard they try (and it honestly shouldn't, IMO). Of course there will be purists who complain about censorship, but if you can get past them there's a much larger audience to be had that does actually appreciate quality media for what it is.
 
PdotMichael said:
At this point "creepy" is just another buzzword.
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I'd love to be able to use the TM symbol next to it, at this point (or) at least on gaf Creepy = Something Pedo related .... or a vita :/ ( anyone who has seen me in gaming knows how i love my vita... and i dont play those games) would be better to just say weird pedo shit if thats what they mean... i miss the days when horror movies were creepy XD
 
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