Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

Cyan said:
Yeah, delete and move on. Not worth it.

What's your word count?
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130,000 words, give or take a few.

If this book can get any smaller, it'll take someone other than me to do it. I cut out 30k already. I just can't take anymore out without removing full on chapters or something.

But I do wonder if this is why I've been hit with so many rejections: I'm a first author with a big book. Few want to take the gamble.
 
Conkersbadfurday said:
130,000 words, give or take a few.

If this book can get any smaller, it'll take someone other than me to do it. I cut out 30k already. I just can't take anymore out without removing full on chapters or something.

But I do wonder if this is why I've been hit with so many rejections: I'm a first author with a big book. Few want to take the gamble.
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Yeah, don't wonder about that.
 
Mike M said:
Yeah, don't wonder about that.
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I mean, it lets me rationalize it some, which is nice :P read somewhere that "IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, 75% OF AGENTS WILL WANT TO SEE MORE WORK" which seems like a lie to me if like, 1% of queries ever get a response.

But I'm in genre fiction and that lady was in literary fiction. Could be something there.

Or I'm awful D:

Editing the second novel is making me not hate myself as much as I thought though, so progress!
 
Conkersbadfurday said:
I mean, it lets me rationalize it some, which is nice :P read somewhere that "IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING, 75% OF AGENTS WILL WANT TO SEE MORE WORK" which seems like a lie to me if like, 1% of queries ever get a response.
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People can come up with statistics to prove anything. 40% of people know that.

But I'm in genre fiction and that lady was in literary fiction. Could be something there.

Or I'm awful D:
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It's most assuredly the first one.
 
Cyan said:
130k is a lot higher than norm, unless this is epic fantasy. Especially for a first-time author. So that agent may be right that it'll be a tougher sell (though they sure could've been less dickish about it).

But I mean... maybe it's the length it needs to be for the story it is. I don't think you need to cut it into oblivion in a quest to be slightly more publishable.

Also fuck that agent.
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It's high fantasy, yeah :P To be honest, it's only around 430 pages when doublespaced, which isn't that big. But I tend to read bigger books because they're more bang for my buck, so I'm used to that length and higher. I dunno.
 
Conkersbadfurday said:
It's high fantasy, yeah :P To be honest, it's only around 430 pages when doublespaced, which isn't that big. But I tend to read bigger books because they're more bang for my buck, so I'm used to that length and higher. I dunno.
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Mine is 125k or so. Started at almost 190k (and yes, printed out it was pretty fucking impressive).

If you've gotten feedback from a writing group and you're comfortable with the material, then self publish.
 
Mike M said:
130K in 430 pages? What size is your font?

My 120K word draft is like 600.
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12, times new roman, doublespaced. It's perhaps a little dense at parts, which I'm finding is also the case for my other story. Trying to fix that this go around. YA doesn't always contend with thick paragraphs.

Angmarsking701 said:
If you've gotten feedback from a writing group and you're comfortable with the material, then self publish.
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We'll see how the second book turns out. It's much smaller and more marketable, and it's not like my first book will ever expire.
 
My solution, incidentally.

d6BNBaa.jpg
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A little bigger than a page length and width-wise, but it's the only thing I could find with the depth I need. Plus it latches shut, and fits in my satchel if I take my folio out.
 
While I struggle through the first week of NaNoWriMo 2015 I at least got some motivation in the form of pictures from my pub of her inspecting the print proofs for my previous NaNo book. I can't wait to hold it in my hands and crush spiders with it.

O1GB3Gs.jpg
mSSTEgg.jpg
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mNfufoe.jpg
NHD6pBF.jpg
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Mike M said:
So after a summer during which I had my very will to live crushed, let alone submit anything, I decided to spend this year's NaNo editing last year's book.

But I edit by hard copy, you see...
TxtyWYf.jpg


Halp. What do I put this monstrosity in? Right now it's in a box that once held manila folders, but it is flimsy as shit and won't last long.

On the upside, I have a pretty good idea of how to fix the structural issues.
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That...is an impressive stack. Bet the sheer weight of it feels awesome. :D You 100k+ers are crazy prolific. At this point I'll be happy to just beat my first go (which is, like, half that). And totally feel you on editing hard copies. I always catch way more stuff when I can go over things with a red pen. Just feels more real.
 
Mike M said:
Well yeah, it exists as a computer file too : P

Seriously, I catch way more stuff with a hard copy than I do looking at it on a screen. It's just my process.
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Same, there's just something about working on a computer that just shuts my brain down and I end up getting nothing done.

Was a real struggle when I was writing my uni essays but somehow I did it. >_>
 
Six days into editing! Feeling alright about this book thus far, though I've noticed it's very light in terms of dialogue. Reminds me of Earnest Cline's novels in a way, though I'm better at writing dialogue than him (or I certainly hope I am)

Trying to cut as much as I can. This book is really dense. So many paragraphs, and while none are huge, most aren't small either. It's like 96k words in 330 pages, which seems really excessive.

Also, I've noticed that while it's nice to make a character's life better, it's not all that fun to read. Shame we all want our heroes to just go through hell :P I feel bad for them D:
 
I started working on a Green Arrow story. I don't want to get it published (if I think it's good enough, then I will post it on the internet, maybe). I wrote down the idea for the story (it's like a synopsis). Any tips for a begginer in writing (I have written poetry, but not prose) on how to write a story?
 
The Cretan said:
I started working on a Green Arrow story. I don't want to get it published (if I think it's good enough, then I will post it on the internet, maybe). I wrote down the idea for the story (it's like a synopsis). Any tips for a begginer in writing (I have written poetry, but not prose) on how to write a story?
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Mapping out your plot might be a good place to start. Even just a basic mountain diagram (conflict peaks, resolution valleys, etc.) really helps navigate where you want to go in an organised way.
 
The Cretan said:
I started working on a Green Arrow story. I don't want to get it published (if I think it's good enough, then I will post it on the internet, maybe). I wrote down the idea for the story (it's like a synopsis). Any tips for a begginer in writing (I have written poetry, but not prose) on how to write a story?
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I'm the opposite of H.Protag; I just fucking go!

If you do go with an outline, and yeah, that's a good way to start, don't marry yourself to it. You might come up with better ideas as you go, so don't be afraid to take them!
 
The Cretan said:
Thanks.
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Np. I like doing the basic skeleton of a story first because it helps give me ideas/direction for the fleshy bits later on. As Conkers said, no need to marry yourself to it, but having a start and an end goal is a good way to make sure you don't wander around and forget what your point was in the first place.

I'm laughing that the three of us chimed in first, though. With just that you've hit your three main spectrum options, I'd say.


Kill the Forest --------------------- Skeleton ----------------- Wheeeeeeeeee!
aka Uber Planner -------------- aka Chart Maker ----------- aka Freestyle
(Captain's Logs) ------------------- (Maps) ----------------------- (Rum)
 
H.Protagonist said:
Np. I like doing the basic skeleton of a story first because it helps give me ideas/direction for the fleshy bits later on. As Conkers said, no need to marry yourself to it, but having a start and an end goal is a good way to make sure you don't wander around and forget what your point was in the first place.

I'm laughing that the three of us chimed in first, though. With just that you've hit your three main spectrum options, I'd say.


Kill the Forest --------------------- Skeleton ----------------- Wheeeeeeeeee!
aka Uber Planner -------------- aka Chart Maker ----------- aka Freestyle
(Captain's Logs) ------------------- (Maps) ----------------------- (Rum)
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Ha, you're right.

Point being: There's no wrong way to write a story...other than to not do it at all of course.
 
H.Protagonist said:
While I struggle through the first week of NaNoWriMo 2015 I at least got some motivation in the form of pictures from my pub of her inspecting the print proofs for my previous NaNo book. I can't wait to hold it in my hands and crush spiders with it.
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Your book looks like it turned out great!
 
The Cretan said:
I started working on a Green Arrow story. I don't want to get it published (if I think it's good enough, then I will post it on the internet, maybe). I wrote down the idea for the story (it's like a synopsis). Any tips for a begginer in writing (I have written poetry, but not prose) on how to write a story?
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I like to nail down the setting first. That way you can ask yourself a lot of questions about what restrictions and details exist there, and those can be natural sources of conflict. If you write through a bunch of ideas and take them to their logical conclusions based on the setting, you gain a breadth of detail from which to draw.
 
Sushi Nao said:
I like to nail down the setting first. That way you can ask yourself a lot of questions about what restrictions and details exist there, and those can be natural sources of conflict. If you write through a bunch of ideas and take them to their logical conclusions based on the setting, you gain a breadth of detail from which to draw.
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What to do you mean by setting? Details on the characters and the world?
 
FlowersisBritish said:
Thought I'd post this, Ember- a journal of luminous things just put out a call for submission under the basic idea of "The Carrot is Mightier Than the Sword." Its going on till the end of December, and they pay(though I think only token). Thought some people might be interested.
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Time to subvert the traditional fantasy hero narrative: Famed adventurer, savior of the land, turns kitchen scullion.
 
So I've finally gone through my third database of agents. Dunno if I should opt for a fourth if this yields nothing (got one guy looking at it right now) or just put the damn thing away for awhile. I'm also tempted to try some publishing houses yet, but ugh. It's so much work!

I'll probably do some blog post about my agent travels though because I think after doing this for a fucking year, I have some say on what to expect :P

As to the current project, I'm halfway through draft 2 (which is super good given that I started editing it last Monday) and mostly happy. I mean, I hate some of it, but I've fixed a lot and took out 4k words already. Trimmin' this mofo down!

Fixed one of my big subplots too, and it turned out to be way easier than I had thought. Fixing another, and I plan on removing a third one that shows up near the end.

I really think I can beat this fucker into submission.
 
H.Protagonist said:
:D :D :D

You're the best, T! Kill any spiders with it yet? How does it look? I haven't even seen one myself yet...
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It is thicker than I thought it would be. So I haven't had to kill a spider with it yet, but if I do it will really mess it up.

Looks amazing though, you should be very proud. The comic in the back makes me very nostalgic for something I can't put my finger on... But it really fits well.
 
Giving serious consideration to shelling out for a professional editing certification from UW... I'm already fairly good at it (or so my editor friends have said), but it would be nice to be able to articulate the reasons things feel wrong beyond saying that my grammar sense is tingling.

Best case scenario, it's a feather in my hat that might help me move into something more fulfilling, maybe freelance, or at the very least just be better at it.
 
Alright. Fuck it. I love this thread and I thank you all immeasurably for contributing. Here's the scoop: I've had the outline for a series of novels lodged in my brain since I was 11 years old. I am now 28 years old. This haunts me. I cannot listen to most music without attaching it to that world. I take walks on the regular and in my walking whole scenes play out in my mind's eye. But here's the thing. I know they're good scenes, dammit. They need to be written.

I'm going to write them now. Thanks.
 
Things are finally -- finally!!! -- de-stressing a bit. Various family members with health issues are seeing improvement. Job situation has settled.

I may actually be in a place where I can concentrate again on writing. It's been several months since I did anything. Puts any kind of publication for the current project into mid-next year at the earliest.
 
Anyone think 10 months of no serious writing is enough to make you "rusty"? With my third novel nearing release, I'd like to start my fourth soon. Problem is it has probably the most ambitious twist I'm capable of coming up with, which is going to need some very deliberate foreshadowing and a whole lot of convoluted nonsense that prevents any contradictions.
 
JeffZero said:
Alright. Fuck it. I love this thread and I thank you all immeasurably for contributing. Here's the scoop: I've had the outline for a series of novels lodged in my brain since I was 11 years old. I am now 28 years old. This haunts me. I cannot listen to most music without attaching it to that world. I take walks on the regular and in my walking whole scenes play out in my mind's eye. But here's the thing. I know they're good scenes, dammit. They need to be written.

I'm going to write them now. Thanks.
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I used to due that shit and chug on.

How does everyone in tackle sound and sound effects in their work? I feel that putting in an onomatopoeia is cheesy, but just describing it doesn't feel right sometimes either.
 
AngmarsKing701 said:
Things are finally -- finally!!! -- de-stressing a bit. Various family members with health issues are seeing improvement. Job situation has settled.

I may actually be in a place where I can concentrate again on writing. It's been several months since I did anything. Puts any kind of publication for the current project into mid-next year at the earliest.
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Yay! I went about six months without writing after my daughter was born, and finishing my first short story after that period was a hugely satisfying experience. Now, I'm writing and editing more than ever.

Blasian Persuasion said:
How does everyone in tackle sound and sound effects in their work? I feel that putting in an onomatopoeia is cheesy, but just describing it doesn't feel right sometimes either.
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It changes from story to story for me, based on the tone and narrative style I'm going for. My current short story has a protagonist that's between 10-13 years so, so there's a childish tilt to his description of sounds, including onomatopoeia. With an older narrator, I often go for more poetic, or hard hitting descriptive passages of sound, with maybe a few details on how the sound affects the narrator psychologically.
 
Finished the second draft of my current novel. It's still a mess but less so. It's also like 7k words shorter than when I started.

Prose reads like standard YA prose, so more tell and less show. This is bothering me on very fundamental levels. Made an effort to fix that going in, but I'll need to do more in draft three.

Which won't be until January at the earliest. I need another good break >.<
 
Ah man, I just got an acceptance letter from The Literary Hatchet. It's been awhile, and it feels nice. They offered me either token compensation(ten bucks) or a hard copy of the book, and I don't know which to take. I think I'm leaning towards the hardcopy though. It brings to me a question of what I value more, the money or seeing my name on a page? Looking back through the books I've been in, I think I'm gonna take the hard copy.
 
FlowersisBritish said:
Ah man, I just got an acceptance letter from The Literary Hatchet. It's been awhile, and it feels nice. They offered me either token compensation(ten bucks) or a hard copy of the book, and I don't know which to take. I think I'm leaning towards the hardcopy though. It brings to me a question of what I value more, the money or seeing my name on a page? Looking back through the books I've been in, I think I'm gonna take the hard copy.
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Congrats!
 
Stumbled on that NaNoWriMo thread today and I realized that I need to write something permanent. There was a link to this thread so I said fuck it, stop contemplating if you should and just write.

I know very little about the process of writing with a clear set of guidelines and have no experience writing a full story. I think my brain processes information a bit weirdly and not in a sequence. So what I do mostly are short moments in time. Very descriptive of feelings, people or places that I experience or create from thin air on any given moment. What I or a character could be thinking. Instead of just writing single moments here and there, I want to create a story around these moments. Connected.

Here's a sample of what I wrote a few days ago before bed on a whim. It'll give you a sense of my style.

"Air conditioning hums at a steady pace sucking the air out of the room. Mouth is dry. I turn on the lights. Sip water. I see the dust on the ventilation grate gathering in a gray line. Flip the switch. It's all black again inside. I stare at the glow of the computer screen. Bright white and blue light. I squint while I reduce the brightness.
Silent outdoors. Occasional beams of light scan the room through the cracks in the blinds. Moving left to right before stopping and disappearing. Footsteps in the hallway leading upstairs. A drag on the handrail bars echoes. Clank, clank, clank, clank, clank. Laughter fades away as I heard the door close. It's silent again.
Inside my head it's not black nor silent. Waves of thoughts run amok. What if? Why? What next? I ponder about life but turn to the present. It's comfortable in here. In my bed. Warm, cozy, relaxed. Stomach full of meat. One whisky. There are no worries until tomorrow morning. Meetings, deadlines. The bane of my existence. But they are not for tonight. Hide in the shadows of my room while I sleep. Until the sunlight wakes us both up."

Now, english is of course not my first language so I am thinking should I write in my native language or use english anyway. Usually I need an editor for my articles as my grammar sucks big time. So lets see what I choose. It'd be best to write in english if I want feedback from you. Finnish is also not the most popular language in the world but as long as I write and finish a book, that is all that matters, right?

Anyway, I subscribed to this thread with notifications, will look into those tutorials you posted in various posts and lastly, I started looking into my older texts for some inspirations and how to create a story arch using that snowflake method.

Any advice is appreciated. Wish me luck.
 
My first novel is done and seeking publishing for a few months now. And while that boring and tedious process continues, I'm thinking about starting work on my second one. I have a basic synopsis and a little more detailed overview of the characters. The problem is that I'm unable to come up with a detailed description of all the events that happen in the story.

I didn't have any of this before I started writing my first one. I just sat down one night and wrote the first chapter without thinking about anything. And then the second one. And it was a while before I really had to start dealing with the overall story.

Now a part of me kinda wants to repeat the "wherever the story takes me" nonsense, even though it's generally not recommended and I know it lead to some problematic story turns in my first one.

Of course, any advice from people dealing with something similar is appreciated :)
 
Reedirect said:
My first novel is done and seeking publishing for a few months now. And while that boring and tedious process continues, I'm thinking about starting work on my second one. I have a basic synopsis and a little more detailed overview of the characters. The problem is that I'm unable to come up with a detailed description of all the events that happen in the story.

I didn't have any of this before I started writing my first one. I just sat down one night and wrote the first chapter without thinking about anything. And then the second one. And it was a while before I really had to start dealing with the overall story.

Now a part of me kinda wants to repeat the "wherever the story takes me" nonsense, even though it's generally not recommended and I know it lead to some problematic story turns in my first one.

Of course, any advice from people dealing with something similar is appreciated :)
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The "Wherever the story takes me" method is what Stephen King uses. I think George Railroad Martin too.

It's what I use.

If that's how you wrote your first novel and it worked, I say go for it again. I mean yeah, there will be problems as you go, but that's what editing is for.
 
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