Play-Asia says SJWs to blame for DOAX3 not coming west

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MHWilliams said:
Not much. Most of Koei Tecmo's titles don't do a ton of business in North America. XSEED and NIS are smaller and pretty much survive on being scrappy niche publishers.
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So what's "not much"? Do you have access to the numbers? Is there disparity between any of the games sales figures? If they're comparable then maybe they made a judgement call on potential backlash and decided not to release it in NA. If they're small scrappy publishers then they might have made such a call when one bad release could have repercussions. If the sales are much lower then you've got them dead to rights that they're bullshitting about the backlash. I'm all for treating corporations skepticism, but there's some more digging to be done on this.
 
kuroneko0509 said:
I am curious. Have you played Nights of Azure yet?
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Nope. I'm sure it's a fine game. Not ragging on it at all. My experience has little to do with Koei Tecmo choosing not to release one title due to not wanting to participate in criticism over the portrayal of women in games, while releasing another that could equally fall afoul of that same criticism. That's the point.

If the fear is criticism and backlash, they can still get that, regardless of a North American release. They can get that on Ar no Surge+ or Nights of Azure, or even DOA5: Last Round.

Valdfellgar said:
I'd point out that the difference is one is easily a niche product that will garner almost zero mainstream attention, and DOA Extreme is an off-shoot of a popular franchise that could, maybe, at this juncture, receive backlash that would damage already struggling sales of the mainline series. (I do want to point out that I don't believe DOA Extreme 3 would have actually received damaging criticism, just that I think that's the thought process they worked with. And who knows, maybe the game you linked above was already locked in for release and further such games will become less likely for localization? I do doubt that though.)
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Both are niche titles and DOA5: Last Round sold... 1.5 million worldwide at last count. DOAX3 will have a fraction of that, at best.

I'd agree if DOA 5 hand't shipped with what could be considered DOAX3's draw: Private Paradise Mode. My point is none of these games are garnering mainstream attention. They're a specific niche of titles that publishers have been releasing with little issue for years. Nothing changed.

mikespit1200 said:
So what's "not much"? Do you have access to the numbers? Is there disparity between any of the games sales figures? If they're comparable then maybe they made a judgement call on potential backlash and decided not to release it in NA. If they're small scrappy publishers then they might have made such a call when one bad release could have repercussions. If the sales are much lower then you've got them dead to rights that they're bullshitting about the backlash. I'm all for treating corporations skepticism, but there's some more digging to be done on this.
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If you want numbers, most of the them are available via Media Create. As an example, the first week sales for Dead or Alive 5: Last Round was around 36,000 across two platforms. Even Senran Kagura 2: Deep Crimson debuted higher than at at around 46,000. Yoru no Nai Kuni (Nights of Azure) did 67,000 across two platforms.
 
Dio said:
Yeah, an interesting thing I've noticed is how many people are equivocating 'avoiding Play-Asia' with not liking the game. Hell, I'm probably going to import DOAX3 myself via Amiami because Play-Asia has been an overpriced trap for many years that any importer worth their salt already avoids.

I can still import DOAX3 and not wanna deal with Play-Asia, and if they actually come out in full support of Gamergate that wouldn't really change anything (for me at least) because they were for plebs in the first place and it just adds an extra reason to not care about them.
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Yeah I try to avoid them when I can too. I don't really care what their twitter account does or doesn't say, if I needed to buy something from them I probably still would, but otherwise I'd be more inclined to avoid them simply to save money.
 
BobbyRobby said:
Just because you agree with one thing a person says, it doesn't mean you subscribe wholesale to everything else they believe. You are asking people to run a background check on anyone they might happen to agree with.

I think to say someone is a supporter of GG because he retweeted something a GGer said is intellectually dishonest.

Likewise to claim anyone who uses the term SJW is somehow linked with Gamergate.

It is a term with far broader usage than the members of Gamergate which is ignored by the world at large.
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Speaking of intellectual dishonesty, P-A's twitter is wallowing in it now, so it's not just 'one thing a person says' it's a focused blast on the GG crowd, hitting all the right notes about being 'triggered' 'SJWs' mocking perceived sexism, etc.

All this smoke and you wanna act like there's no fire, it's just a coincidental point between disinterested parties. As if P-A has nothing to gain from pulling the Donald Trump gambit all over its social media.
 
Head.spawn said:
If you could actually point out the part of my comment that left you in such a confused state, I'd do my best to give it a sensible response.
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Head.spawn said:
My bad for the over-simplification then, I guess I did take it wrong.

I'm not opposed to a game like you said existing, I like progress but taking something that already exists and changing it in that way, based on pressure from a crowd is what I have a problem with. I'm of the opinion that everything doesn't need to be for everyone and even more, if you want things to cater towards your tastes, advocate their creation from people who might WANT to create that, not changing what already exists or molding an idea to hit some forced PC/censorship board/Equality check list.
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But I'm not really sure it's related to this thread, so you can ignore this.
 
AtomskEater said:
Sort of related, occasionally when I see posts with people saying "stop trying to change the creator's vision!" "this is art (which somehow means it's above criticism and inspection)" "SJWs are trying to force developers to make games only the way they want them to be made" and other related arguments, I like to click on their post history and see what kinds of comments they've made about other games. Everyone has something about (a) game(s) they'd like to see changed and they have no problem saying so on forums.
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I think there's a difference between criticizing a game's controls or janky dialogue and criticizing a female character's cleavage. Often, the latter criticism includes an implication that the game is not only bad but downright immoral, because objectified game characters have a negative effect on women in real life.

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue myself. I think people can and should separate fantasy from reality, and that enjoying big breasted anime girls doesn't necessarily say anything about your views on actual women. But at the same time, I would most definitely criticise a game that was, for example, racist.
 
MHWilliams said:
Nope. I'm sure it's a fine game. Not ragging on it at all. My experience has little to do with Koei Tecmo choosing not to release one title due to not wanting to participate in criticism over the portrayal of women in games, while releasing another that could equally fall afoul of that same criticism. That's the point.

If the fear is criticism and backlash, they can still get that, regardless of a North American release. They can get that on Ar no Surge+ or Nights of Azure, or even DOA5: Last Round.



Both are niche titles and DOA5: Last Round sold... 1.5 million worldwide at last count. DOAX3 will have a fraction of that, at best.

I'd agree if DOA 5 hand't shipped with what could be considered DOAX3's draw: Private Paradise Mode. My point is none of these games are garnering mainstream attention. They're a specific niche of titles that publishers have been releasing with little issue for years. Nothing changed.
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But the fact is the questionable content in Ar no Surge and Nights of Azure doesn't compare to anywhere on the level that would merit backlash, more likely a mention. I mean of the three images you posted, only one is of question, and that's during an important sequence.
 
sturgboski said:
Play Asia or TK? Also why? If PA is it for stating the SJW thing as a reason this gave won't come west of something else?
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TK

It's a way of deflecting criticism. Blame it all on SJW's or feminism and whatever. People should be angry at TK for not releasing the game, not some other unrelated group. Not to mention, TK's reasons for not wanting to release the game only make them look like complete and total pansies.
 
Dio said:
Yeah, an interesting thing I've noticed is how many people are equivocating 'avoiding Play-Asia' with not liking the game. Hell, I'm probably going to import DOAX3 myself via Amiami because Play-Asia has been an overpriced trap for many years that any importer worth their salt already avoids.

I can still import DOAX3 and not wanna deal with Play-Asia, and if they actually come out in full support of Gamergate that wouldn't really change anything (for me at least) because they were for plebs in the first place and it just adds an extra reason to not care about them.
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to be fair (prior to this) P-A was good for Asian versions that JP import shops don't carry. Won't be using them anymore though!
 
kuroneko0509 said:
But the fact is the questionable content in Ar no Surge and Nights of Azure doesn't compare to anywhere on the level that would merit backlash, more likely a mention. I mean of the three images you posted, only one is of question, and that's during an important sequence.
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Okay, even that's the case. What about this? From a release this year.

There's no backlash. It may even be worse than that. No one really cared until they couldn't get it, supposedly because of criticism.

If you want someone to blame for the lack of release, blame Koei Tecmo, because that's where the issue lies.
 
Valdfellgar said:
Okay, moving forward, can we not play the "Gotcha!" game and can you discuss specifics rather than being vague? I was referring to westernization of things like removing Japanese imagery or terminology. But if we're talking about religious symbols I agree about controversy.

However, controversy can damage sales/public perception and that's part of what Nintendo wanted to avoid in that era and here now.
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Nothing changed, Nintendo doesn't change content for no reason.
They have an image and want to nurture it so they adapt their content to their image.
It's the things all company do.
Apparently PlayAsia wants to be known as that place misogynists go right now and act accordingly.
Nintendo deciding to alter a slider in XCX is pretty much the same as Nintendo deciding against releasing Another Code R in the US or not releasing Animal Crossing in PAL countries at first.
This is the same, KT decided it was too much of a bother to release DOAX3 themselves.
Even Nintendo did that with 2 of the Operation Rainfall games, guess they should have blamed SJWs to avoid any PR damage.
 
Jangowuzhere said:
TK

It's a way of deflecting criticism. Blame it all on SJW's or feminism and whatever. People should be angry at TK for not releasing the game, not some other unrelated group. Not to mention, TK's reasons for not wanting to release the game only make them look like complete and total pansies.
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But what if a tumblr feminist blogs about it! I can totally understand how that'd mark the end of Koei Tecmo :P
 
Lol, I just saw the item description for the game on Playasia. They're really going all-in.

Finally, Dead Or Alive Xtreme 3 is a Japanese/Asian Region exclusive, although if a Western release happens, it will be an "adjusted" version. What this actually means though, is highly based on the assumption of censorship; in the meantime, this version is the only sure bet on the original xtreme experience.
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Way to make money off an audience's paranoia and persecution complex.
 
gaboumafou said:
Lol, I just saw the item description for the game on Playasia. They're really going all-in.



Way to make money off an audience's paranoia and persecution complex.
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Hayashi has explicitly stated that if a western version would ever happen, it would've been altered. So no. Not paranoia. I feel like you're trying to needlessly vilify both Play-Asia and the DOAX3 importers.
 
MHWilliams said:
Okay, even that's the case. What about this? From a release this year.

There's no backlash. It may even be worse than that. No one really cared until they couldn't get it, supposedly because of criticism.

If you want someone to blame for the lack of release, blame Koei Tecmo, because that's where the issue lies.
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I'll give you that on Marie Rose and DoA, my only thing was that your list seems to be off base and could be edited.
 
gaboumafou said:
Congratulations! Fight the power and and show it to those SJW scums, for only $139.99+S&H. Take a stance with the Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 Fortune Edition including the game, exlusive DLC and a big breasts mousepad, available right now on Play-Asia™!
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After years of build up, Koei Tecmo has released the very first footage for Dead Or Alive Xtreme 3! Many gamers share fond memories of the previous iterations, especially the first title, Dead Or Alive Xtreme Volleyball, as this was indeed the reason why some of us originally bought the first Xbox.

Notorious in it's promotional material and absolutely unabashed at what this title is about, DOAX3 carries on the tradition of this spin-off by taking the girls of Dead Or Alive and pitting them in a no holds barred beach vacation filled with mini-games designed to showcase the new technological advances of the series. Apparently there is volleyball or something ;)

By using the upgraded Soft Engine 2.0 for the PS4 Version (an improved breast engine based off Dead Or Alive 5 Last Round) and the Soft Engine Lite (PS Vita Version), 4 main changes have been made to the character models. New skin shaders give off a realistic and healthy vibrancy, and breast physics have been fine tuned for maximum voluptuousness. As well, game changing booty physics have been fleshed out, along with the fact that no other game contains such realistic tanning. The main stay Camera Mode also returns.
...
Finally, Dead Or Alive Xtreme 3 is a Japanese/Asian Region exclusive, although if a Western release happens, it will be an "adjusted" version. What this actually means though, is highly based on the assumption of censorship; in the meantime, this version is the only sure bet on the original xtreme experience.
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You can't make this up.
 
Mael said:
Nothing changed, Nintendo doesn't change content for no reason.
They have an image and want to nurture it so they adapt their content to their image.
It's the things all company do.
Apparently PlayAsia wants to be known as that place misogynists go right now and act accordingly.
Nintendo deciding to alter a slider in XCX is pretty much the same as Nintendo deciding against releasing Another Code R in the US or not releasing Animal Crossing in PAL countries at first.
This is the same, KT decided it was too much of a bother to release DOAX3 themselves.
Even Nintendo did that with 2 of the Operation Rainfall games, guess they should have blamed SJWs to avoid any PR damage.
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Of course they don't? I didn't say they changed content for no reason.

I don't think it is the same thing though. We're talking about the underlying reason or fear of loss of profit and company impression. I don't think Nintendo would've removed the slider size option if not for the backlash around that underage character. I do think they probably always would've censored the girl, but the response online to here in the first place probably influenced removing the slider entirely. That's what I'm inclined to believe anyway.

I mean, I get what you're saying with the Operation Rainfall games, but I think you're oversimplifying things and cramming multiple different issues under one banner.

I think KT absolutely is afraid of damaging their brand and have lost confidence in their product as a result.
 
Klossen said:
Hayashi has explicitly stated that if a western version would ever happen, it would've been altered. So no. Not paranoia. I feel like you're trying to needlessly vilify both Play-Asia and the DOAX3 importers.
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I'm actually starting to wonder if they really go for skivy shit that is new territory for the series, and when evaluating for localization saw how that balanced with prior sales and just went "nope nope nope."

And by this I mean stuff that isn't revealed yet and one would only see in the final product.
 
Klossen said:
Hayashi has explicitly stated that if a western version would ever happen, it would've been altered. So no. Not paranoia. I feel like you're trying to needlessly vilify both Play-Asia and the DOAX3 importers.
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Play-Asia? Sure.

DOAX3 importers? I don't care at all. Although I must admit having a bit of fun seeing all those perpetually angry gamers buying it just to "show it to those SJWs" when in fact nobody gives a damn about the game, and they're only spending money because of Play Asia's invented controversy. They really managed to convince people they're "rebelling" by buying this sequel to a series almost nobody cared about.
 
Klossen said:
Hayashi has explicitly stated that if a western version would ever happen, it would've been altered. So no. Not paranoia. I feel like you're trying to needlessly vilify both Play-Asia and the DOAX3 importers.
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Nope, still paranoia because they're invoking "censorship". If the developer and publisher decide to edit the game for a different audience, that's not censorship.

Play-Asia is currently in the middle of their Donald Trump routine, engaging in a limbo contest to see how far they can sink, playing up an unreasonable and unjustified mania. The description is solidly part of that campaign.
 
Okay, so let's break this down.

What we know is that there is not a huge backlash of people criticizing this game at this current moment. That much is pretty definite.

So assuming the reasons are the possibility of a negative reaction (and I doubt this is the case), what are they actually afraid of? A bunch of individuals expressing their opinion on twitter and on forums?

If the free speech of others on issues of gender are enough to keep you from releasing your product then that is on the company not on the people expressing their opinion. Either defend your product or ignore the criticism and release it anyway. Blaming people for having an opinion is cowardly.
 
Eusis said:
I'm actually starting to wonder if they really go for skivy shit that is new territory for the series, and when evaluating for localization saw how that balanced with prior sales and just went "nope nope nope."
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The Marie Rose bathing suits they've shown in the teaser images doesn't seem to be any worse than her DOA5 costumes. Perhaps they have something much worse, but they haven't shown it yet.

PsychoSoldier said:
Okay, so let's break this down.

What we know is that there is not a huge backlash of people criticizing this game at this current moment. That much is pretty definite.

So assuming the reasons are the possibility of a negative reaction (and I doubt this is the case), what are they actually afraid of? A bunch of individuals expressing their opinion on twitter and on forums?

If the free speech of others on issues of gender are enough to keep you from releasing your product then that is on the company not on the people expressing their opinion. Either defend your product or ignore the criticism and release it anyway. Blaming people for having an opinion is cowardly.
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People tend to be for free speech until it's speech they disagree with.
 
Anton Sugar said:
It's like the post said--they have released similar games in the recent past without any significant, sales-impacting backlash. Yes, of course the game may be criticized, just like any game. If they don't want to expose the game to that criticism, well, that's just cowardly on their part.

I really don't understand your "I have a black friend" analogy in relation to that post, either? "I have a black friend" is used typically used to validate racist or otherwise troubling stances, simply because someone has checked the "black friend" checkbox.
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Is there data to prove exactly that there hasn't been sales backlash? Perhaps something that would show trending? I don't know if it has been posted publicly, but neither of us are really qualified to talk about that until we've seen the numbers. I'm just speaking hypothetically when I say that if the trends are down for sales, doing damage publicly to your brand would definitely sway my decision in this case.

By the "black friend" thing I simply meant a singular example of something can't speak for all instances. That was admittedly a poor way to word my point. "I'm feminist but I'm ok with this" is great for perspective, but I've seen that go very far in the other direction too.

Steve Youngblood said:
Again though, why would it be a huge factor? Your number one goal as a publisher is to make profits selling video games. Why would concern over a little negative publicity stand in the way of that? Now I get that some companies do have to worry about brand perception. But this is the Dead or Alive series we are talking about. This isn't their first rodeo. There's always been some of this kind of talk surrounding the series, notably the two previous Xtreme games that were already released.

Yes, the conversation has about objectification of women has become more of a hot-button topic as of late, but it's still not clear to me why fear of backlash would be even remotely important to them, and certainly not anywhere near as important as the question of "will we make money releasing this game in that region?"
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I don't think it's important for them, in Japan and Asia, where they are releasing the game. I don't understand why you refuse to admit, despite the community manager flat out saying that there's concern, that public opinion towards the title could have swayed the decision. You seem so sure that this is a fabricated reason, but I don't know where you're building the confidence to determine this.

I mean who's to say that the managers in charge of these decisions in KT aren't trying to improve the image of their brand in the US. Japanese tried to cater to western (mainly US) tastes last gen and we ended up with games like Quantum Theory. How is neutering their more "niche" products so different?
 
gaboumafou said:
Play-Asia? Sure.

DOAX3 importers? I don't care at all. Although I must admit having a bit of fun seeing all those perpetually angry gamers buying it just to "show it to those SJWs" when in fact nobody gives a damn about the game, and they're only spending money because of Play Asia's invented controversy. They really managed to convince people they're "rebelling" by buying this sequel to a series almost nobody cared about.
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I doubt most even bought it, and rather are just saying so. The lot responding to this imagined SJW outrage aren't the sort to put their money where their mouth is. In fact I recall several of the news sites they setup being closed down due to the lack of financial stability.
 
Valdfellgar said:
Of course they don't? I didn't say they changed content for no reason.

I don't think it is the same thing though. We're talking about the underlying reason or fear of loss of profit and company impression. I don't think Nintendo would've removed the slider size option if not for the backlash around that underage character. I do think they probably always would've censored the girl, but the response online to here in the first place probably influenced removing the slider entirely. That's what I'm inclined to believe anyway.

I mean, I get what you're saying with the Operation Rainfall games, but I think you're oversimplifying things and cramming multiple different issues under one banner.
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Nah, no one gave a shit about it till they did the change all by themselves.
And I doubt that the slider was removed this close to release considering the amount of testing that needs to be done for the game to go gold.
It's Nintendo, they've far more bizarre stuffs for no reason.
We're talking about a company that stopped making their most successful product for over 10 years because they wanted to do something else.

Valdfellgar said:
I think KT absolutely is afraid of damaging their brand and have lost confidence in their product as a result.
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They're a tad too late for that, their fighting brand is in the gutters and has been for a while. Another T&A spinoff isn't going to change much.
If they were THAT worried they would have canceled it and made something else.
 
Koppai said:
SJW? What does that mean.
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Short for Social Justice Warrior, generally relates to people who push their agenda on people aggressively. Understandable if you think otherwise because the term gets thrown around for anyone who thinks video games should be more progressive.
----
Anyways the funniest part of everything is that the GG movement doesn't realize they are getting played by Play-Asia, ha ha.
 
gaboumafou said:
Play-Asia? Sure.

DOAX3 importers? I don't care at all. Although I must admit having a bit of fun seeing all those perpetually angry gamers buying it just to "show it to those SJWs" when in fact nobody gives a damn about the game, and they're only spending money because of Play Asia's invented controversy. They really managed to convince people they're "rebelling" by buying this sequel to a series almost nobody cared about.
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That's a whole lot of assumptions you got there. Yeah, somebody should tell the people over at the DOAX3 thread that they're only tools of the Play-Asia marketing. That sure is a respectful way to talk to fans on NeoGAF.
 
Klossen said:
That's a whole lot of assumptions you got there. Yeah, somebody should tell the people over at the DOAX3 thread that they're only tools of the Play-Asia marketing. That sure is a respectful way to talk to fans on NeoGAF.
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If that's what you got from what you quoted then you need to get your reading comprehension checked.
 
Klossen said:
That's a whole lot of assumptions you got there. Yeah, somebody should tell the people over at the DOAX3 thread that they're only tools of the Play-Asia marketing. That sure is a respectful way to talk to fans on NeoGAF.
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What? Are you playing dumb on purpose? I didn't talk about everybody playing the game and I don't even get how you can interpret it that way.

Are you trying to find any reason possible to be outraged? :P
 
Klossen said:
That's a whole lot of assumptions you got there. Yeah, somebody should tell the people over at the DOAX3 thread that they're only tools of the Play-Asia marketing. That sure is a respectful way to talk to fans on NeoGAF.
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For someone so upset about SJWs forcing you to import DOAX3, you sure do get offended easily.
 
Rhazer Fusion said:
Capcom changed R. Mika's taunt and Cammy's camera angle for her introduction for a reason in SF5. I don't particularly mind the camera angle even if it does;t look as epic, but changing a butt slap seemed quite preposterous to me. Wasn't one of the Fatal Frame outfits on the Wii U modified or censored? How about Xenoblade Chronicles changing the female outfits? No more breast size slider/modifier also? Why? Wasn't Smash Bros also censored or changed as well? Something is going on. Are they afraid to potentially offend Westerners or something? Why would DOAX3 be any different, especially considering DOA5 was/is always criticized for it's sexual content despite being am excellent fighter imho? Scantily clad females combined with quirky, niche volley ball game? I still think it could be tough sell in the West, but you never know.
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I was saying when has a whole game not come out because a gaming company is afraid of the backlash.

Modifiying outfits is one thing. That's fine. Different countries have different sensibilities, but no one is going to refuse to release a whole game in America because of it.
 
Klossen said:
That's a whole lot of assumptions you got there. Yeah, somebody should tell the people over at the DOAX3 thread that they're only tools of the Play-Asia marketing. That sure is a respectful way to talk to fans on NeoGAF.
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p sure there's a big difference between people just buying the game (like me) and those who driveby post in here about how they're buying it from PA to make some sort of point. reminds me of those people who would post in chick-fil-a threads.
 
Pejo said:
I don't think it's important for them, in Japan and Asia, where they are releasing the game. I don't understand why you refuse to admit, despite the community manager flat out saying that there's concern, that public opinion towards the title could have swayed the decision. You seem so sure that this is a fabricated reason, but I don't know where you're building the confidence to determine this.

I mean who's to say that the managers in charge of these decisions in KT aren't trying to improve the image of their brand in the US. Japanese tried to cater to western (mainly US) tastes last gen and we ended up with games like Quantum Theory. How is neutering their more "niche" products so different?
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My problem with this whole thing is in this overarching narrative that some are pushing that Tecmo may be some sort of victim here by making a simple business decision. The idea that all the complainers out there finally got their way does not match with reality. If Tecmo thinks this game can make money and they care about their existing fanbase, then they should release the game. If they decide not to because of any plans to change course over here, then that's on them.

I just think it's insanely disingenuous to cite not wanting to engage in some social issue in a different territory as the sole reason that you're not releasing the product there. If you just want me to concede that the current social climate over here might be a factor, then I won't discount that. If you want me to concede that it's the primary reason just because an ESL community manager made an allusion to it, then that's not going to happen.
 
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