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[vg260]

You can't look at the roster number in a vacuum and compare it to others. There are a lot of other considerations. For example, is it the first game in the series being built from the ground up, or is it a sequel or being built upon an existing engine?

That being said, I think 16 is on the low side, and it's not unreasonable for people to be disappointed with that number, especially for casual fans not following the development. It does feel lower in value. Expecting 40+ out of the gate on a brand new series entry is a bit much. I think the 16+ the 6 DLC characters would have been a much better starting roster, and would have been perfect in terms of perception.

I think their model allows them to launch with this smaller number, and they probably would have launched with more otherwise. If they weren't allowing you to earn characters for free, than 16 would be too few for a new major IP release, in which case they should have waited until fall and launched with 22.

 

[Gipsy Danger]

I doubt it. We'll have another VF and Tekken will do a crossover eventually.

I like your optimism.

You can't look at the roster number in a vacuum and compare it to others. There are a lot of other considerations. For example, is it the first game in the series being built from the ground up, or is it a sequel or being built upon an existing engine?

That being said, I think 16 is on the low side, and it's not unreasonable for people to be disappointed with that number, especially for casual fans not following the development. It does feel lower in value. Expecting 40+ out of the gate on a brand new series entry is a bit much. I think the 16+ the 6 DLC characters would have been a much better starting roster, and would have been perfect in terms of perception.

I think their model allows them to launch with this smaller number, and they probably would have launched with more otherwise. If they weren't allowing you to earn characters for free, than 16 would be too few for a new major IP release, in which case they should have waited until fall and launched with 22.

I think it's reasonable to be disappointed with the number but I just don't get how high number of characters improves the game in any way. As long as they are all distinct enough then there should be someone for you to play as. IMO the roster is very diverse and I want to play everybody (Except Birdie, lol) so just choosing one will be difficult for me.

 

[mbpm1]

If people can't deal with small rosters the genre's not for them. that's it. People who don't play fighting games don't have much room to talk about setting standards.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

Don't see why it matters when 99% of online players just play as Ryu or Ken anyway. Even now the character diversity online in SFIV is a shambles.

 

[Banana Aeon]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

Because a lot of people don't actually play fighting games and just want characters. There are very few fighters that are made better because the cast is huge.

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Because a lot of people don't actually play fighting games and just want characters. There are very few fighters that are made better because the cast is huge.

Only Mugen.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Don't see why it matters when 99% of online players just play as Ryu or Ken anyway. Even now the character diversity online in SFIV is a shambles.

How is that an argument for a larger roster?

The 16 characters in SSF2 were the perfect amount of characters for me.

You could learn each matchup and have a basic game plan how to fight against each of them.

 

[Stone Ocean]

I think their model allows them to launch with this smaller number, and they probably would have launched with more otherwise. If they weren't allowing you to earn characters for free, than 16 would be too few for a new major IP release, in which case they should have waited until fall and launched with 22.

The only way this would have launched with more characters was if it were releasing in late 2016 / early 2017.

It's really easy to forget that this has been in development for 1.5 years tops.

 

[Skilletor]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

KOF 14 the best value in gaming.


It's a stupid metric.

 

[vg260]

I think it's reasonable to be disappointed with the number but I just don't get how high number of characters improves the game in any way. As long as they are all distinct enough then there should be someone for you to play as. IMO the roster is very diverse and I want to play everybody (Except Birdie, lol) so just choosing one will be difficult for me.

More characters means more variety in opponents both in playing and spectating. I like to play against and watch lots of different characters, and too many of the same gets boring to me. At a certain skill level too many matchups can be overwhelming, but not everyone is worried about learning the ins and outs of every possible matchups at a high level. Having more characters is more appealing from a casual perspective in this regard. I would guess a large percentage of potential purchasers fall in this area. That makes the game better for them. In terms of tournaments, I honestly don't care if people have to work harder to learn more matchups if I'm never gonna play in one, but like to watch them.

The only way this would have launched with more characters was if it were releasing in late 2016 / early 2017.

It's really easy to forget that this has been in development for 1.5 years tops.

Yeah, that was pretty much what I was trying to say.

 

[Gipsy Danger]

How is that an argument for a larger roster?

The 16 characters in SSF2 were the perfect amount of characters for me.

You could learn each matchup and have a basic game plan how to fight against each of them.

It's not, it's the opposite. I much prefer a small roster at launch. Just saying that it's a waste to have a huge roster when most of the characters won't even get touched.

 

[Skab]

Makoto's pretty inevitable as well. (The list of female returnees left to put in is really small.)

I really hope you're right. She coul be really fun in this game.

I'm really curious to see how the other 3rd strikers translate over into 5. (Especially Urien and ibuki)

 

[Sayad]

Because a lot of people don't actually play fighting games and just want characters. There are very few fighters that are made better because the cast is huge.

KOF 14 the best value in gaming.


It's a stupid metric.

KoF definitely benefit from more characters though, they're easier to pick up than in other games yet offer enough gameplay variety. I only played XIII very casually and I play about 7 characters. Can't think of a single top KoF player who stuck with just 3 characters, hell, some of them literally play most of the cast at a competitive level.

This is not to say SFV should launch with more characters, 16 is a sweet spot for an SF game.

 

[Lothars]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

I just love having more characters in the game, It doesn't bother me learning the matchup's when it's really exciting to have a nice variety of characters.

 

[vg260]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

I don't think it's hard to understand why some people feel this way, especially if they are more casual fans of the genre. You may not agree, especially if you plan to invest a lot of time in mastering the matchups, but it is probably the most concrete metric for a more casual audience, whether indicative of the quality or not.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Where was this "casual disappointment" when MKX launched with less base characters than MK9?

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

Does a true casual really count the roster size? They're just going to look at the box or trailer and see Ken, Ryu, Chun-li, and Cammy... that's all the info they need to be sold on the game. Is a casual even going to recognize someone like Maki or Retsu?

The part about the game reviewing bad was also pretty funny... Guilty Gear Xrd only has a 17 character roster and only had 15 at launch... it reviewed very high for gorgeous visuals, and a lavish single player mode. In fact Xrd has a higher meta critic score than Mortal Kombat X and it's "superior" cast number.

 

[vg260]

Where was this "casual disappointment" when MKX launched with less base characters than MK9?

Eh, I think the number was in the range that most people found OK.

 

[Village]

Why do people think that "more characters = better game = higher value"?

For me it's more on the other side. The more characters, the less there is a way to learn all match ups, and the more you get some random shit happening..

I think there is a balance. right? Like I like chaos, I play marvel. But I understand and like learning characters. And can appropriate like mark of the wolves, which might be my favorite snk game.

On the flipside, I think while yes I know its an indie game. Skullgirls roster, ( besides being filled with bad character designs) was a bit too small, despicably for a game that had the option of playing 3 on 3. If it started with 12 characters, i would have been a bit more on board, though again the character designs eug....

 

[BlueJade]

Would still like to see an older more mature Sakura with better control of her hadou. Possibly longer hair or something.

 

[DR2K]

Where was this "casual disappointment" when MKX launched with less base characters than MK9?

If MKX launched with 16 characters they would never have heard the end of it. Especially with a season pass, which got a ton of flak. MKX was filled with tons of single player content, unlockables, online modes, etc... to satisfy the casual audience. It's set the standard for the genre as far as overall package is concerned.

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

If MKX launched with 16 characters they would never have heard the end of it. Especially with a season pass, which got a ton of flak. MKX was filled with tons of single player content, unlockables, online modes, etc... to satisfy the casual audience. It's set the standard for the genre as far as overall package is concerned.

Yet Guilty Gear Xrd with that roster size and single player content is reviewed higher than Mortal Kombat X... funny how that works.

 

[Razzorn34]

I just love having more characters in the game, It doesn't bother me learning the matchup's when it's really exciting to have a nice variety of characters.

I have no gripes about the size of the SFV roster, but I can agree with this. Seeing the same people over and over can get old pretty quick. That, and I hate mirror matches with a passion. More characters is just more variety to keep things fresh.

 

[BadWolf]

The roster size is fine, it's big enough for a starting point and also allowed for a quick dev cycle.

Should also feel less overwhelming for newer players to get into.

 

[k4n3]

overall if you count the DLC characters this is a perfect roster the only gripe i have is vega over sagat

 

[BadWolf]

overall if you count the DLC characters this is a perfect roster the only gripe i have is vega over sagat

Vega is pretty badass in SFV so I'm okay with it.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

Will there be anything apart from five DLC characters in the Season Pass? I have preordered Deluxe Edtion from PSN already

 

[vg260]

Yet Guilty Gear Xrd with that roster size and single player content is reviewed higher than Mortal Kombat X... funny how that works.

How did Xrd compare in sales? MKX did incredibly well.

Xrd is a relatively niche IP by comparison, and its fans have been begging for a return for years. Buyers of that game are going to cut it a lot more slack on roster count.

MK X is a big-budget, high profile, mainstream game. I absolutely agree that if MK X launched with 16 characters, they would have gotten a ton of flak for it. The expectations are a lot different between the two games.

I think SF is closer to MK X in this area, so roster count is going to be more of a sticking point for a mainstream audience.

 

[stn]

I love huge rosters, learning matchups is not annoying to me. I'm going to spend 100+ hours regardless, as will all the rest of you who are big fans of fighters.

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

How did Xrd compare in sales? MKX did incredibly well.

Sales wise Mortal Kombat destroys everything... on name recognition alone. Just like Resident Evil 5 and 6 are the highest selling in the series. Just like Call of Duty Ghosts and Assassin's Creed Unity still being among the top grossing games in their respective years.

Will there be anything apart from five DLC characters in the Season Pass? I have preordered Deluxe Edtion from PSN already

6 DLC characters in 2016, more confirmed for 2017 but I don't think they've pinned an exact number yet... they basically plan on expanding the roster as long the game is profitable.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I like starting with smaller rosters because it allows people to scale up as time goes on. Also if you want a massive character list play Tekken Tag 2 and then wonder why people know instinctivly that you need a master thesis to reach ground level in that game.

 

[Producer]

Will there be anything apart from five DLC characters in the Season Pass? I have preordered Deluxe Edtion from PSN already

6 characters with 1 premium costume for each each one, and a ps4 theme.

 

[Sevket-Erhat]

6 characters with 1 premium costume for each one, and a ps4 theme

Where is my pre-order theme ?

 

[mbpm1]

Also if you want a massive character list play Tekken Tag 2 and then wonder why people know instinctivly that you need a master thesis to reach ground level in that game.

I thought that was just Tekken lol

 

[SiegfriedFM]

Still griping about the roster?

Some of the best games ever have rosters of 16-20 characters. Samurai Shodown II, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Matrimelee (iirc), Vampire Saviour, Third Strike, Soul Calibur 1, Virtua Fighter 5 (iirc). It's actually rare that games with bigger rosters end up great.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

It's not, it's the opposite. I much prefer a small roster at launch. Just saying that it's a waste to have a huge roster when most of the characters won't even get touched.

Oh, sorry, then... I completely misread your post..

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Oh, sorry, then... I completely misread your post..

No worries. I think quoting you made it seem like I was saying something else since inflection doesn't come across too well in text.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I wonder if toolassisted is just some guy that really missed the Tomagotchi mode from VF4.

 

[vg260]

Still griping about the roster?

Some of the best games ever have rosters of 16-20 characters. Samurai Shodown II, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Matrimelee (iirc), Vampire Saviour, Third Strike, Soul Calibur 1, Virtua Fighter 5 (iirc). It's actually rare that games with bigger rosters end up great.

In that era, yes, but I think now with post launch support/balancing, bigger rosters are more likely to be successful eventually. With older games, they usually had one shot per title, so naturally bigger rosters were more likely to have issues.

 

[Skilletor]

In that era, yes, but I think now with post launch support/balancing, bigger rosters are more likely to be successful eventually. With older games, they usually had one shot per title, so naturally bigger rosters were more likely to have issues.

But...That's NEVER been the case with SF. They always launch with a smaller roster and increase via updates. The method we're getting now means we'll have 20 characters by this time next year, instead of waiting for dlc updates that give us a bunch of characters in a bundle.

 

[mbpm1]

Small rosters are so 80s just like zoning

 

[Gipsy Danger]

Small rosters are so 80s just like spamming

FTFY.

 

[vg260]

But...That's NEVER been the case with SF. They always launch with a smaller roster and increase via updates. The method we're getting now means we'll have 20 characters by this time next year, instead of waiting for dlc updates that give us a bunch of characters in a bundle.

I'm not sure what you mean or if I'm saying anything different. I just mean that older arcade-era games having successful smaller rosters doesn't necessarily mean that a bigger roster nowadays is going to be problematic.

 

[Stone Ocean]

In that era, yes, but I think now with post launch support/balancing, bigger rosters are more likely to be successful eventually. With older games, they usually had one shot per title, so naturally bigger rosters were more likely to have issues.

Yeah, but at what cost? First impressions are a big deal, you put out a messy game people are less likely to actually stick around until the balance changes come up.

Besides counting on quick balance fixes is just bad design. That's how you end up with NRS games. Game needs room to breathe and a tighter roster at launch makes it easier for that room to be enjoyable.

 

[VariantX]

Yah don't understand why Capcom feels the need to jam dumb NPCs in every single background. Sometimes simple themes are the best...

It's not even that for me, its the fact that the NPC's are behaving way too inappropriately for where they are. The lair of the 4 kings stage is ruined for me because of this. The shadaloo stage has people acting like full blown clowns in a 3 ring circus with goofy robots and shit. No wonder shadaloo falls in the near future, with the goofballs bison has under his employ as of late, you can only be destined to fail. I remember the bison stage in A2, those fuckers would stand and salute whenever bison was on the stage. Otherwise, they'd act like armed soldiers for a criminal organization, instead of people in comedy troupe.

 

[mbpm1]

Yeah, but at what cost? First impressions are a big deal, you put out a messy game people are less likely to actually stick around until the balance changes come up.

Besides counting on quick balance fixes is just bad design. That's how you end up with NRS games. Game needs room to breathe and a tighter roster at launch makes it easier for that room to be enjoyable.

What happens if you put out KOFXIV

 

[vg260]

Yeah, but at what cost? First impressions are a big deal, you put out a messy game people are less likely to actually stick around until the balance changes come up.

Besides counting on quick balance fixes is just bad design. That's how you end up with NRS games. Game needs room to breathe and a tighter roster at launch makes it easier for that room to be enjoyable.

Yeah, that's true, but games that have a bigger casual audience have more wiggle room in that area. I think there are a large chunk of people that bought MK just to jump around, uppercut eachother, do finishers and don't give balance changes a second thought. To those players the roster count is of more impact to them. Probably similar for Smash. I think this section of players would be much smaller for something like SF, and even more so for GG. The more casual appeal, I think the more roster size impacts their initial impression of value.

 

[Sayad]

How did Xrd compare in sales? MKX did incredibly well.

Xrd is a relatively niche IP by comparison, and its fans have been begging for a return for years. Buyers of that game are going to cut it a lot more slack on roster count.

MK X is a big-budget, high profile, mainstream game. I absolutely agree that if MK X launched with 16 characters, they would have gotten a ton of flak for it. The expectations are a lot different between the two games.

I think SF is closer to MK X in this area, so roster count is going to be more of a sticking point for a mainstream audience.

You have to also compare the model SFV is going for with MKX's. MKX launched as complete game(with the season pass at least), people expected the same amount of support NRS's previous titles got, 1 or 1 and a half year of patches and maybe a few DLC characters not known about at launch before drooping the game completely. In which case, a bigger roster is essential as that what will be there for the rest of the game's lifespan.

SFV is coming after SFIV, which launched with 16 characters, ended up with more than 40 and kept getting supported for more than 5 years. Capcom is promising the same amount of support for SFV without mandatory extra payments. So 16 is a reasonable start even in a post MKX market.

 

[Stone Ocean]

What happens if you put out KOFXIV

People in the internet make fun of you

Yeah, that's true, but games that have a bigger casual audience have more wiggle room in that area. I think there are a large chunk of people that bought MK just to jump around, uppercut eachother, do finishers and don't give balance changes a second thought. To those players the roster count is of more impact to them. Probably similar for Smash. I think this section of players would be much smaller for something like SF, and even more so for GG. The more casual appeal, I think the more roster size impacts their initial impression of value.

I dunno, from my experience with SFxT - anecdotal I know but it's not like there's a metric for this type of thing - it sure feels like a lot of people will just parrot what the FGC thinks of a game.