Live from New Hampshire, it's the 3rd Democratic Primary Debate!

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Adaren said:
I see two big reasons.

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STOP! adam387's penis can only get so erect.
 
adam387 said:
He hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, provided specifics on how he's going to pay for (anything) his universal healthcare. He had a bill that he proposed that, literally, said they'd have to figure it out later.
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Payroll tax would be the logical solution, no?
 
UnemployedVillain said:
I wouldn't say that's really "working" as it's on a downward trend and going broke...I think we should look more to how European nations do it than our closest analog, although maybe it's scaling issues that separate us from them?
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Medicare has got a lot of issues that handicap it, they can't negotiate drug prices for one which makes everything way more expensive than it needs to be.
 
The problem with trying to get states to help is that republican ones will find a way to opt out and it will hurt their students in the long run.
 
Jonm1010 said:
They're not though......so??? At least Bernie is coming up with some ideas to help break the inertia.
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So they need to do it. That's my entire complaint.

I'm glad Bernie is coming up with ideas. Maybe just maybe the Dems can tap into the ideals he has to form it's own grass roots 'tea party' type movement to get dems out to the booth. If he does great. Let's take some seats if gerrymandering will let us.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
He's catering to the uneducated masses and college stoners. He's so transparent in his motives, it's honesty disturbing. You're never going to get anything but vague populism from him because he doesn't live in the real world. I feel sorry for his constituents in Vermont.
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You're going in hard on the ad-hominem, huh?

He actually has detailed where the money would come from, so if you're not high, what's your excuse?
 
davepoobond said:
medicare shouldn't negotiate lower costs?
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Sure, but she is basically making the battle line at negotiating costs(for medicare, which is outside the ACA), vague bureaucratic tightening and specific subsidies for a specific situation.

Nothing that is going to move the needle for Obamacare. Its empty. And basically a pledge to the status quo for most people.
 
DietRob said:
So they need to do it. That's my entire complaint.

I'm glad Bernie is coming up with ideas. Maybe just maybe the Dems can tap into the ideals he has to form it's own grass roots 'tea party' type movement to get dems out to the booth. If he does great. Let's take some seats if gerrymandering will let us.
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Gerrymandering isn't the main reason why Dems can't win seats. The main problem is voter apathy.
 
adam387 said:
And in the mean time, those of us who could have died waiting for single payer should have done what if everyone else just went home because they didn't get everything that wanted?
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This is why you aim for what Obama and Sanders want: accept what the endgame is, and plan there. Even if you don't get it in one move, make every move towards it.

Hillary's answer was not anything close to that. It was accepting this garbage as a norm, not as the placeholder it must be.
 
legacyzero said:
Could somebody explain what a Single Payer system would look like?
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A single payer system would involve removing the profit motive from the financing of health care by making the payment for health services handled by the government instead. When you go to a medical facility, they will no longer ask you if you can pay but instead go straight to treating you. This would be payed for likely through some form of payroll tax like Medicare is now. Under Bernie's plan, the administration of the health systems would be farmed out to the states so they could cater it to their own needs.
 
DietRob said:
So they need to do it. That's my entire complaint.

I'm glad Bernie is coming up with ideas. Maybe just maybe the Dems can tap into the ideals he has to form it's own grass roots 'tea party' type movement to get dems out to the booth. If he does great. Let's take some seats if gerrymandering will let us.
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No reasons the president shouldn't include themselves in the process. It is too important to just sit and hope and pray the DNC gets it shit together.

Bush was actually a master of it early on. So it can be a valuable path for a president.
 
zero shift said:
Gerrymandering isn't the main reason why Dems can't win seats. The main problem is voter apathy.
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I'm sorry but this is just wrong. I don't have the chart handy of total dem 2008 votes in districts around the country so hopefully somebody posts it.
 
Arkeband said:
You're going in hard on the ad-hominem, huh?

He actually has detailed where the money would come from, so if you're not high, what's your excuse?
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You do realize that not a single thing in that post was ad hominem right?


I mean. There were fallacies in that post, but don't reference them if you don't know what they are.
 
Hillary with this stupid skin in the game euphemism as a stand in for what it is---a predatory outfit's pound of flesh. Even if it WAS the former in an apt way---that's a term reserved for straight up gambling....so to tie that wagon to education when the house tends to win is...
 
"No middle class tax raises."

I said this about Martin, now Hillary: fuck off.

If middle class taxes create a more genuine health care system, why is this being disregarded? You're actively promoting a settle for less model!
 
Hillary's being a "bitch" on this since Sanders is mostly right....but it's a debate tactic that will work and it's clearly working to the uneducated watching, the overwhelming majority.
 
No democratic president is going to be able to pass their major policy agendas through a republican congress in their first 2 years. After the midterms, maybe but not initially and Sanders' mass of tax increases will be dead on arrival. His policies even more so than Hillary's have no shot because they have no backing from Wall Street or any private industries and all require legislation.
 
Foffy said:
This is why you aim for what Obama and Sanders want: accept what the endgame is, and plan there. Even if you don't get it in one move, make every move towards it.

Hillary's answer was not anything close to that. It was accepting this garbage as a norm, not as the placeholder it must be.
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Bingo. Which is why I am so mad she won't push for a public option as being the rallying poll of her healthcare agenda.
 
DietRob said:
I'm sorry but this is just wrong. I don't have the chart handy of total dem votes in districts around the country so hopefully somebody posts it.
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It's not. Gerrymandering at most only has the Dems lose a handful of seats. The issue is that Democratsic voters are in clumps and voter apathy. Democrats could still win the House if they wanted to, but people don't vote. It is one of the core issues with the Dems that they continue to ignore.
 
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