lastflowers
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Yeah, I'm not sure he knows what ad hominem is.
Live from New Hampshire, it's the 3rd Democratic Primary Debate!
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Yeah, I'm not sure he knows what ad hominem is.
Because you really don't need to touch them- it's the higher marginal rates which are stupidly low right now.
No, he should shut up and let the candidates actually, you know, debate. The goal should be quality of debate, not quantity of questions. Especially when the questions are such stellar ones as "when is it okay to profile based on race or religion, Senator Sanders?"
Battersea Power Station
Member
I think Sanders has been vague and mysterious about everything and Hilary has been specific to a fault. I'm using that as an idiom because it's not actually a fault here.
And_Gignac
Member
Nothing will pass with the current state of the houses. I cant imagine Republicans giving credit to anything from Hillary. She is like Satan to them.
Amen.
I love Bernie's idea, but Hllary's plan is the type of progression that actually stands a chance in making through congress.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup. Plus its not like our budget doesn't have other places you could shuffle the money from
I mean, I don't actually expect Hillary to shift military money into causes like education and healthcare, but you could do it
Even so, her answers on not moving forward on the healthcare issue genuinely offend me the most about her. And I benefit from the ACA.
I at least admit it's a work in progress. Where, in her arguments, is the progress? It's not fucking there.
Then you have not followed Sanders very intelligently at all. For example, he specified a domain in which he'd fund college affordability, which already is better than Hillary's indebted servitude idea.
timetokill
Banned
lol "Debt-free tuition"
come the fuck on, Hillary
come the fuck on, Hillary
Wafflecakes
Member
By that logic any general critique of a candidate is ad hominem.,,,
Not saying the guy's post was reasonable, but it was not ad hominem.
legacyzero
Banned
Ahhh.. That sounds great.
Lol at the idea of any Republican working with Hillary.
Even on the topic that I agree with Bernie the most on he came off kind of weak. He made it all sound pie in the sky. I hate to say it, but both Clinton and O'Malley are doing better in this debate so far.
Foreign policy is definitely more her wheelhouse than domestic issues.
Foreign policy is definitely more her wheelhouse than domestic issues.
Its a stupid focal point to pigeon hole yourself into in a party that wants to do meaningful things with government.
Sure, by all means mention it in passing as political expediency requires, but when it plays into the hands of Republicans you make things twice as hard by making a consensus cultural norm by conceding that tax raises are always bad.
I think Sanders is far more detailed on what he wants to do on tuition, even if he offers no actual way for it to happen.
It's not in a position to move forward on right now- it's going to need tune ups and fixes before it's in a policy and political place to get an upgrade.
Laevateinn
Member
I can't take anyone seriously who blanket refuses tax increases. Hillary is just not serious.
Battersea Power Station
Member
This is what you Sanders supporters don't understand: she can actually get that done because she doesn't operate in a dream world. She is ambitious and she's going to bring real, tangible changes while you guys are jeering her from the shadows.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
If you think campaigning on middle class tax raises is gonna win a general election then this must be your first day in America.
You'd have no chance with that kind of talk. Republicans already have a built in advantage with the electorate on the issue of taxes.
The bottomline is that taxes will increase and that's a boogeyman period. It's nonetheless a better alternative to what we have today. The public is too stupid to understand; so stupid that he's taking the heat for lack of specificity rather than claim "higher taxes, along with a proper explanation". The populace only reads higher taxes, and the explanation is flushed by political attacks, counter arguments and a flood of crap.
It's the reason why this country is in the state it's in when it comes to healthcare, not to mention the $$$ big farma and insurance pour in. The country can be easily divided and the topic easily muddied. Bernie's lack of specificity in this issue is just him being a politician aware of his surrounding environment and his target market.
UnemployedVillain
Member
She literally said why. Because you can increase taxes for the wealthy class and accomplish the same thing, while not gutting a group that can't take the increased tax burden.
And_Gignac
Member
Right? I dont think theres a figure more hated by republicans (and their core voters) than Clinton. Not even Obama.
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
She is only refusing tax increaes on lower income people. Same policy as Obama basically, which I think most people would agree with
gutter_trash
Banned
all words spoken during the primaries can and may be used against candidates in the general election.
Hillary is being smart
Pretty much. Probably gotta turn it to Medicare-level, where people would throw a bitch fit if you tried to get rid of it, before it can be upgraded. It definitely sucks that this is the reality though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I don't even know why he's not the one playing the "shift military money" card
timetokill
Banned
Who said I'm a Sanders supporter?
I'll be SHOCKED if Hillary does anything to help deal with the student debt crisis.
legacyzero
Banned
What dream world? Bernie has been pretty clear oh how he'll be paying for it.
zero shift
Banned
Read my link. That was an exception due to clumping. "Ungerrymandeing" won't fix this problem.
It's a great thing Bernie's plan has been detailed for months that it would be a tax on speculative trading that would finance it.
In reference to health care? She argued against Sander's approach to a single payer system and followed it up with that claim.
She used that argument to argue against single payer, which she does not support.
Coriolanus
Banned
If the critique is related to the argument being carried, it is valid. If the critique is about the candidate and doesn't address the argument, then it is an ad hominem. Had he explained why bernie's position is not realistic in the slightest, it would have been valid.
he was just hurling offenses and never addressed the argument, thus yes, ad hominem.
No way. Obama is a direct relation to the rise of the Tea Party/Freedom Caucus. Go back and look at Clinton's Senate record. The GOP is villainizing Clinton to be sure, but the hatred isn't nearly as strong as what it was for Obama.
It's just that that anger is already so high from 8 years of Obama that Clinton is now getting the brunt of it.
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
Thinking you can win the general pledging tax increases for everyone is ridiculous. Even if you took the time to explain how not paying for insurance would save them money in the end all they would hear is tax increase. The attack ads write themselves.
No you can't.
You absolutely do need to raise taxes across the board to pay for some of the actual meaningful reforms Democrats want at the core of their party like UHC.
Bernie is just more willing to come out and admit the truth and break this stupid vicious cycle democrats have gotten themselves into by playing into the hands of the GOP by universally demonizing tax raises to anyone but the richest of the rich.
I really wish Hillary would of used a bit of that momentum to nudge the breaking of that cycle. Instead of doubling down.
If you go into a general arguing for Single Payer you are dead in the water. We couldn't even get a public option, you might have more faith in the American electorate than I do.
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