[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

Status
Not open for further replies.
JB1981 said:
Chewie was the hero of the movie. Blasts Ren dead center with his bowcaster. No hesitation whatsoever. Then takes out like 10 troopers, detonated the oscillator and saves Rey/Finn in the falcon. Love that hairy bastard.
Click to expand...

Yep. After what happened I feel like he's going to stick around and help as much as he can from this point on. And if I were Ben I'd stay as far away from Chewie as possible.
 
uncelestial said:
Lucasfilm has a vested interest in shutting down that criticism so I don't really care about that. I also am not prepared to take it as read that Rey being male wouldn't get the same complaints about developing his powers too fast, being too perfect, too shallowly written, etc -- though they might not put that label on it since the male term of "Gary Stu" is not as well known, they also might. People call out Gary Stu-ism all the time.
Click to expand...

Why not? You have an example in the same movie series.

In IV, Luke is able:

-With the skill of a seasoned veteran, successfully pilot the Star Wars equivalent of an F-22 without ever touching it before.
-To make a near impossible shot on his first try to blow up the Death Star without the assistance of a computer.
-To be successful at Obi-Wan's mini-training session by blocking several blaster shots with his lightsaber.
-To carry Leia across a huge gap by throwing a grappling hook onto part of a structure that's really high up on his first attempt.

Luke accepts his destiny of being a Jedi and doesn't put his friends in danger because he's afraid. Rey does.
 
uncelestial said:
lol - nice. @NihilistArbys is my jam. ;)


Don't get me wrong, as I said I had a fun time watching Rey have her adventures. A thrilling ride to be sure. I hadn't noticed the parts dealer's accent. I'm going in for a second helping, I'll keep an ear out (to coin a phrase). Agree that SW has bounced back from Ep 1-3 bigtime.


Yeah, they made it a lot of fun and the actress does a good job. The first time you see her being really bad ass and charging at Finn, it's establishing that she is ready to kick some ass. It looks like Finn is about to get rekt!
Click to expand...

Wrong quote tag for that last quote pal! That was me!
 
hardcastlemccormick said:
Rey was great because despite how she clearly fits into the puzzle of plot, as a character she just wants to go back to shitty ole Jakku and wait for whoever left her behind. She initially fears the Force and denies that it's within her, until circumstances make her realize her potential.

It's a good arc for the first film I'd say.
Click to expand...

I agree. And her being so capable with the force was no problem for me. I'm sure we'll learn why in time.
 
Cheebo said:
The attacks on her character online mostly reek of sexism let's be honest. No one says this shit about perfect male lead characters that we get in blockbusters constantly. Even Lucasfilms story group lead called this out on Twitter yesterday. She is a fantastic character.
Click to expand...

This is just a such a dumb and lazy response to dealing with criticism of a character you like. I love TFA and I think Rey is an awesome character. That doesn't preclude me from having problems with both.

Gary Stus get shit all the time. That's why it's thing. Perfect characters in general just aren't a good thing, regardless of gender.

Mary Sues and Gary Stus usually suck. Sometimes they work, but that depends on what kind story is told. James Bond and Ethan Hunt for example, are Gary Stus that headline major blockbuster action movies in which the entire premise is that they are super spies that can pretty do and get away with everything. We go into those movies expecting and WANTING them to be awesome badasses at every turn and getting their way.

When people watch an epic story unfold like in Star Wars, they expect and want well written characters that are flawed, well written, well realised and developed.

ANH Luke is an idiot. There isn't really a whole lot to like about him aside from him doing the right thing. RoTJ Luke is almost a completely different person, and one most of us - afaik - really like, because he went through his trials and tribulations and developed.

Rey isn't Luke, no, but she also has no real development outside of what is convenient, and she is written in such a way that - as much as I like her - it undermines previous precedent and storytelling because she is pretty much perfect from the jump and proceeds to be given everything without putting in any time or effort. There is nothing I can think of to impune her personalithy for. Because she's too perfect, i.e. a Mary Sue. And that has nothing to do with her being a woman.
 
Dubbedinenglish said:
So was Jar-Jar for ep1. Which Jar-Jar and he had the same role. Plus you have all the pre-release hyping him with a lightsabre. To only find out he's a space janitor who is handy with a gun, but boy does he have heart!

Like I was saying I hope he eventually does get to be a Jedi too, but for all the boasting of having a black lead he gets slotted into pretty stereotypical role.
Click to expand...

Lol. Hard to take you seriously when you compare him to Jar Jar.

Did Jar Jar risk his life to save an enemy of the army he's belonged to since he was a young child? Did Jar Jar risk his life again for a friend when it was unlikely he was going to survive? Was Jar Jar actually funny like Finn?
 
Saw the film again.

Yes there are some flaws but

DD2jMB5AH3AeQ.gif


It's so much fun in all honesty.

Oh I appreciate Kylo Rens costume style a bit more now even though I still think he looks like emo Anakin 2.0 ala Jonas Brother Sith Otaku.

However I would prefer the lightsaber duels to be more bombastic. The prequels have ruined it for me. I want backflips and twirls!

ubtZYB7WPBd7i.gif


8KhpDSA7Gz3Gw.gif
 
BB-8 is both a great character and one of the most shrewdest, most brilliant marketing moves since Lucas opted to keep the original merch rights. Makes Tickle Me Elmo and Furbies look like undesirable garbage.
 
brandonh83 said:
I feel like I'm alone in this lack of desire for Finn to be a Jedi. He can be a great character anyway like he was in this movie.
Click to expand...

No, I'm with you. Not everyone has to be a Jedi. Not everyone has to be the son or daughter of someone famous. People bitching about Mary/Gary's in here need to cut out the fan fiction ideas as well to be consistent.
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
Sure, it could. Doesn't really change what I think is bad storytelling in this film.
Click to expand...

I guess what I'm asking is you don't think the storytelling in future films could justify the storytelling in this one? I understand your complaint that the movie needs to be able to stand on its own but it's also part of a trilogy and certain parts of the story could be expanded upon in the future films. like, maybe there's something that will happen in the next one and you'll go "ohhhh, that's why she was so quick to learn the force". something like that happening wouldn't change your opinion of this movie?
 
Big Nikus said:
Quoting from the previous thread:


Lanadel.
That's a good Star Wars name.

It's so great to see people speculate on the background of characters, I feel like I can better imagine the kind of crazyness people experienced after the revelations in Episode V.
Click to expand...


Rey Lanadel. Oh jeez. Silly but thats a nice nod to Lana Delrey.
 
The Librarian said:
Why not? You have an example in the same movie series.

In IV, Luke is able:

-With the skill of a seasoned veteran, successfully pilot the Star Wars equivalent of an F-22 without ever touching it before.
-To make a near impossible shot on his first try to blow up the Death Star without the assistance of a computer.
-To be successful at Obi-Wan's mini-training session by blocking several blaster shots with his lightsaber.
-To carry Leia across a huge gap by throwing a grappling hook onto part of a structure that's really high up on his first attempt.

Luke accepts his destiny of being a Jedi and doesn't put his friends in danger because he's afraid. Rey does.
Click to expand...
Nobody complains about Luke's flying ability because its established in ANH that he's got a history of flying and targeting experience. He fails with using the lightsaber repeatedly on screen before becoming successful with it. The problem with Rey is that she has no history of doing any of the things she's doing. If her answer to "how did you do fly/etc like that" was something along the lines of her experience doing that thing on Jakku a lot, nobody would complain.
 
Frog-fu said:
Rey isn't Luke, no, but she also has no real development outside of what is convenient, and she is written in such a way that - as much as I like her - it undermines previous precedent and storytelling because she is pretty much perfect. There is nothing I think of to impune her for. Because she's too perfect, i.e. a Mary Sue. And that has nothing to do with her being a woman.
Click to expand...

I like your post, but I don't think that's fair. Her motives, goals and beliefs do change. She starts off with a personal MacGuffin, waiting for whoever to come back and get her, rejects Luke's lightsaber, yadda, but by the end she makes the personal call to track Luke down personally to dicover more about the force.

I think there's a marked difference in terms of her personality and what she chooses to do in the last scene in the movie in comparison to her first scene. Her movement is different. Body language is different. Has gone back on what she was stuck doing on Jakku.

Not as great character development ad Luke in ANH but it's still there.
 
diaspora said:
Nobody complains about Luke's flying ability because its established in ANH that he's got a history of flying and targeting experience. He fails with using the lightsaber repeatedly on screen before becoming successful with it. The problem with Rey is that she has no history of doing any of the things she's doing. If her answer to "how did you do fly/etc like that" was something along the lines of her experience doing that thing on Jakku a lot, nobody would complain.
Click to expand...

Right. Luke flying around on a speeder and shooting animals somehow prepares him for flying an X-Wing to blow up a military installation. But Rey's too perfect.

Also, Rey only succeeds after several failed attempts before she can mind-trick the stormtrooper, and she's on the run for *most* of her fight with Ren.
 
phanphare said:
I guess what I'm asking is you don't think the storytelling in future films could justify the storytelling in this one? I understand your complaint that the movie needs to be able to stand on its own but it's also part of a trilogy and certain parts of the story could be expanded upon in the future films. like, maybe there's something that will happen in the next one and you'll go "ohhhh, that's why she was so quick to learn the force". something like that happening wouldn't change your opinion of this movie?
Click to expand...
It could justify a story element but not having bad storytelling in your film.
For your second question, it would depend on explanation but most likely, no.
 
WadiumArcadium said:
Lol. Hard to take you seriously when you compare him to Jar Jar.

Did Jar Jar risk his life to save an enemy of the army he's belonged to since he was a young child? Did Jar Jar risk his life again for a friend when it was unlikely he was going to survive? Was Jar Jar actually funny like Finn?
Click to expand...

I think you need to sit down and read what I've been writing. He's not 1 to 1 Binks reborn but he slots in the same role that Jar Jar had in ep1. The reveal of him being a space janitor underscores it. A lot of the discussion is people saying that he is the new Han, which isn't true. Rey is closer to Han and Luke combined and Poe is closer to Leia, Finn gets the Jar Jar role as the plucky comedic relief. Which to me is disappointing for the black lead to be put as.
 
diaspora said:
Nobody complains about Luke's flying ability because its established in ANH that he's got a history of flying and targeting experience. He fails with using the lightsaber repeatedly on screen before becoming successful with it. The problem with Rey is that she has no history of doing any of the things she's doing. If her answer to "how did you do fly/etc like that" was something along the lines of her experience doing that thing on Jakku a lot, nobody would complain.
Click to expand...

Yeah that didn't sit well with me. "How did you do that?" "I have no idea..."

213372bu said:
Not sure if posted:
Click to expand...
This is beautiful. Thank you, Lucas expects us to believe that Jar Jar "accidentally" killed like three droids with a gun around his leg. Clearly, he used the force.
 
I love the prequel duels too but again we're in a new circumstance. The characters and the times define the duels. We're back to slightly inexperienced players but they're young and vicious, which is why the fight was still pretty energetic but not quite the show they were in the prequels.
 
SomTervo said:
I like your post, but I don't think that's fair. Her motives, goals and beliefs do change. She starts off with a personal MacGuffin, waiting for whoever to come back and get her, rejects Luke's lightsaber, yadda, but by the end she makes the personal call to track Luke down personally to dicover more about the force.

I think there's a marked difference in terms of her personality and what she chooses to do in the last scene in the movie in comparison to her first scene. Her movement is different. Body language is different. Has gone back on what she was stuck doing on Jakku.

Not as great character development ad Luke in 4-6 but it's still there.
Click to expand...

Well, I would assume that Rey wouldn't have as much character development in a single than Luke does in three because Rey...has only appeared in a single film.
 
BronsonLee said:
Nah I said that, I'm totally smart
Bask in my genius
Click to expand...

Waynesworldwe'renotworthy.gif

uncelestial said:
Shit, sorry - I always try to copy/paste back in the username if I break up the original quote and respond inline. Grabbed the wrong one.
Click to expand...

All good homeslice!

The Librarian said:
Well, I would assume that Rey wouldn't have as much character development in a single than Luke does in three because Rey...has only appeared in a single film.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant even in ANH Luke has more character dev than Rey does in TFA. Which I think he does - but Rey still has some good development.
 
The Librarian said:
Right. Luke flying around on a speeder and shooting animals somehow prepares him for flying an X-Wing to blow up a military installation. But Rey's too perfect.

Also, Rey only succeeds after several failed attempts before she can mind-trick the stormtrooper, and she's on the run for *most* of her fight with Ren.
Click to expand...
Yes, because they don't halfass ANH and actually say that Luke has shown off strong piloting and shooting before taking the shot at the death Star rather than Rey's dunnolol.

If she had just said that she's down before, none of the complaints about perfectness- at least with flying would exist. Nobody's complaining about how she was able to knock a trained stormtrooper- Finn on his ass because the movie shows us that she comes into conflict with other scavengers in her life on Jakku.
 
hal9001 said:
However I would prefer the lightsaber duels to be more bombastic. The prequels have ruined it for me. I want backflips and twirls!
Click to expand...

Fuck no. All of that is a slippery slope to this:

4thrz.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Vintage Favorite Star Wars Character Thread (spoilers possible)
41
2K
Lunarorbit replied
Star Wars Maul shadow lord annonced
36
1K
Goalus replied
Star Wars: Starfighter comes to theaters on May 28, 2027, directed by Shawn Levy and starring Ryan Gosling
2
61
2K
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt replied
Disney removes Star Wars from 2026
2 3
148
9K
Interfectum replied
Star Wars: Acolyte Reportedly Introduces Pronouns, The Force as a Female Entity
Social Drama Rumor  2 3 4 5
216
22K
jason10mm replied
Top Bottom