The series started a bit rough, that's for sure but by early season 2 the quality started going up and up and up, giving us an absolutely amazing seasons 3-6.
And even season 1 had great arcs like the Lair of Grievous and the Clone Rookies.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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The series started a bit rough, that's for sure but by early season 2 the quality started going up and up and up, giving us an absolutely amazing seasons 3-6.
And even season 1 had great arcs like the Lair of Grievous and the Clone Rookies.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Yeah Season 1 and the movie were mostly awful.
That why im saying its understandable to have just skipped it originally.
Heck even the art is bad early on compared to later.
No, it's never. I'm poking fun at your idea that I should be hopeful that in almost half a century, I'll see supporting characters with the same race as me show up.
MiamiWesker
Member
It sounded exactly like guniess so I am glad I am not crazy.
JJ revealed that Ben is absolutely aware of Vader's turn, but he idolizes Anakin's dark side. He views Vader's turn as a moment of weakness and that he was seduced by the light, which is why Ben is so afraid of being seduced by the light. It's why he killed his father. Killing his own family was a line that his idol could never cross, and I'm sure Ben believes that he's surpassed Vader now.
Yeah, I'm listening to that one now, it's pretty good.
I think "The Ways of the Force" is a track to listen for anyone who thinks this film has a weak soundtrack, it's a musical battle between Kylo Ren's and Rey's themes.
Yup. And there's actually a direct parallel: Luke was a fighter pilot, and used the force to amplify his fighter pilot skills to take down the death star. Rey was a fighter, and used the force to amplify her fighting skills and defeat Kylo.
Yet somehow the former is okay and the latter is, no way she could do that. It's a double standard applied to Rey, plain and simple.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I get the rescues management issues in terms of supplies and funds, but they don't seem particularly invested in their soldiers... they kidnap children, "re-educate" them, strip them of personal identity... doesn't seem like an organization that would shed a tear over lost lives.
We do get resounding speeches to the foot soldiers, which doesn't seem to be something the Empire would care about, but I felt that was more a part of their "indoctineratization" than any true 'we are the chosen people and this is our due!' kind of motivational, 'hey guys we're in this together as a peoples' kind of rally cry.
Maybe they value their commanders better than the Empire, but we only got to know Hux and he has some kind of connection with Snoke on a personal level we don't know about yet (and we didn't see Tarkin have), so I'm not sure yet if we have enough to go on to see if Hux surviving was really a case of Snoke wanting to protect those who follow him, or The First Order as a whole really believe in ordering "retreats" to protect stormtroopers.... at least not Hux.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Loved this movie. I'd rank it just slightly above ANH for my new second fave after ESB.
However, there were a few things that didn't make sense. Maybe somebody can help me.
1) How did C3PO get his gold arm back? I assume the red arm will be explained at some point, but he went from red to gold with zero fanfare or explanation at the end.
2) How did R2D2 get the rest of the Skywalker map? My assumption is that in the Abrams/Kasdan/Arndt story they've written out an explanation that will be coming in the next movie. Maybe he had it the whole time and was in hibernation until he detected Skywalker nearby (but woke up when Rey came near because she's obviously Luke's daughter. I mean, how else would she be so powerful in the Force?). It just seemed odd that no explanation was given. It felt like a hole. But this one leads me to:
3) Why was there a map of Luke's location in the first place? Someone had to have charted the course and programmed that map doohickey, but who? And if someone did chart it, who? Why would the First Order go after whoever made it and scan their brain for Luke's location? My guess is Luke charted it out himself and left part of it with R2 and the other part with God knows who (we know it wasn't Leia since the opening crawl mentions she came upon it, not that she already had it). But if he made two parts of the map to be used only in case of an emergency, how could he ever be sure both halves would be able to be reunited? I know movies rely on luck and convenience, but that's a LOT of luck.
Besides these quibbles, this was a fantastic movie and finally washed the bitter taste of the prequels out of my mouth.
However, there were a few things that didn't make sense. Maybe somebody can help me.
1) How did C3PO get his gold arm back? I assume the red arm will be explained at some point, but he went from red to gold with zero fanfare or explanation at the end.
2) How did R2D2 get the rest of the Skywalker map? My assumption is that in the Abrams/Kasdan/Arndt story they've written out an explanation that will be coming in the next movie. Maybe he had it the whole time and was in hibernation until he detected Skywalker nearby (but woke up when Rey came near because she's obviously Luke's daughter. I mean, how else would she be so powerful in the Force?). It just seemed odd that no explanation was given. It felt like a hole. But this one leads me to:
3) Why was there a map of Luke's location in the first place? Someone had to have charted the course and programmed that map doohickey, but who? And if someone did chart it, who? Why would the First Order go after whoever made it and scan their brain for Luke's location? My guess is Luke charted it out himself and left part of it with R2 and the other part with God knows who (we know it wasn't Leia since the opening crawl mentions she came upon it, not that she already had it). But if he made two parts of the map to be used only in case of an emergency, how could he ever be sure both halves would be able to be reunited? I know movies rely on luck and convenience, but that's a LOT of luck.
Besides these quibbles, this was a fantastic movie and finally washed the bitter taste of the prequels out of my mouth.
VistraNorrez
Member
I'm watching Empire of Dreams and they just mentioned Peter Cushing was 63 in A New Hope. Harrison Ford looks better at 73.
And of course 64 year old Hamill looks 2 decades younger than Cushing.
And of course 64 year old Hamill looks 2 decades younger than Cushing.
I highly doubt they changed her title just because of this.
Anyone skipping Clone Wars just because it's placed in the prequel era is doing himself a disservice. I ignored it for the longest time as well, but that was a mistake. S1 only has a few standout episodes, but everything kicks into gear with s2, which is actually the most consistent season of the series (and my personal favorite). Then in later seasons the animation and production values just go through the roof, and there are some truly incredible arcs. Even if you just use use the essentials guide and watch the minimum of eps, you owe it to yourself to give it a chance.
The Clone Wars proved that you can tell interesting stories in the prequel era.
The Clone Wars proved that you can tell interesting stories in the prequel era.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
My main concern with III was this
I love honest trailers. If you haven't watched it you should check out the ones for the prequels, they're magnificent.
I agree. The Clone Wars show is beautiful, it helps explain a lot that got left out of the movies. The prequel era isn't bad, the movies about the prequel era is shit.
There's also a 2003 version of it that has similar art to Samurai Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4
I love honest trailers. If you haven't watched it you should check out the ones for the prequels, they're magnificent.
I agree. The Clone Wars show is beautiful, it helps explain a lot that got left out of the movies. The prequel era isn't bad, the movies about the prequel era is shit.
There's also a 2003 version of it that has similar art to Samurai Jack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVk9lPotcW4
Yeah I don't think they care any extra for their troops. Money seems to be the thing. Kylo pretty much says as much when he threatens the First Order could always go back to Clone Troopers if Finns betrayal is something that could become common among other troopers.
Indoctrinating children is likely cheaper than cloning facilities but if results are gonna backfire the first order can apparently afford to switch
Yautja_Warrior
Member
So after seeing it and having a while to think about it, I can see why some have mixed feelings about parts of the movie. It's definitely not perfect but that's ok, because as much as we love the originals, they are far from perfect too.
It has a great mix of old and new, with the new cast being very strong. Kylo Ren was a great bad guy and an actual character too, I was worried he would just be a copy of Vader but he has a personality of his own and inner conflict with the light and dark side. If any light side still remains, what he did is probably going to eat away at him.
I came away from this very satisfied and it did what it needed to do, to wipe away the memory of disappointment from the prequels.
I think the main issue's come from the fact it sets up a lot for the next two movies, without giving away much in this movie, but it does a great job in leaving us wanting more, man that final shot of Luke and Rey was brilliant.
It has a great mix of old and new, with the new cast being very strong. Kylo Ren was a great bad guy and an actual character too, I was worried he would just be a copy of Vader but he has a personality of his own and inner conflict with the light and dark side. If any light side still remains, what he did is probably going to eat away at him.
I came away from this very satisfied and it did what it needed to do, to wipe away the memory of disappointment from the prequels.
I think the main issue's come from the fact it sets up a lot for the next two movies, without giving away much in this movie, but it does a great job in leaving us wanting more, man that final shot of Luke and Rey was brilliant.
You ain't wrong
You did hear him
I loved it. It really did feel like the spiritual successor to the OT in almost every single way that the PT failed miserably. It has its issues, some of them typical for Star Wars, some of them typical for a JJ Abrams film, and some of them typical for a reboot of a multi-billion dollar franchise with expectations and a fanbase built in, but I think the overall package can't be considered anything less than a rousing success.
Might as well tackle the negatives first - chief among them is John Williams' (sadly predictably) limp noodle of a score. I cannot think of a film series in which the original score is as integral to the film as Star Wars. And in that regard, the film lays an egg. The few briefs moments where the score evoked something in me was when old themes (like the godly Force theme, which never fails to give me chills) were trotted out. Otherwise the score was basically unmemorable noise. As tends to be the case for most Abrams films, this sucker needed another pass or two in the writer's room. It's quite messy at times, jumps around a lot, and certain events and character motivations are foggy. It's nowhere near the mess his ST2009 was on a writing level, but it still is clunky at times and occasionally delved a bit too far into fanservice. As far as fanservice goes, I can't put all the blame on Abrams. Clearly this was designed to be a safe film from the get go. This is both a negative and a positive. The negative being that the movie doesn't really do anything original or take any risks, and hews closely to the structure of A New Hope. The positive being that it delivers pretty much exactly what fans have been clamoring for the past 30 years. My last minor complaint is that, while I loved Daisy Ridley and her performance, I thought her acting got really dodgy whenever she had to express pain or anguish.
Other than that, I really, truly loved it. It's gorgeously shot. It looks and feels like what this world would look like 30 years after the OT. The dirt and lived in feel that was sadly lacking in Lucas' second trilogy returns here in spades. Abrams' direction and the editing always keep the film moving and exciting. The marriage of CG to prosthetics and real sets and locations was amazing and evoked the OT perfectly. The movie was hilarious and the cast was impeccable and all the new leads had great chemistry. Despite mentioning her above as a negative, 95% of the time I absolutely loved Daisy Ridley - what a discovery. Boyega and Isaac feel like they were both born to be in a Star Wars movie. Harrison Ford appeared to give a shit again here, and his performance brought a smile to my face. What the film really nailed for me was the snappy banter between characters(very OT-esque) and the "moments". It nailed them. Things like Solo's return or the Force theme swelling when Rey uses the force to pull Luke's lightsaber out of the snow. Or the Luke reveal. That stuff was perfect (even if Luke was a big fat tease).
Nothing is knocking Fury Road down off the pedestal for top blockbuster of 2015, but The Force Awakens is a close second for me. A great, if too safe, resurrection of the OT spirit. Can't wait to see Episode VIII.
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
Might as well tackle the negatives first - chief among them is John Williams' (sadly predictably) limp noodle of a score. I cannot think of a film series in which the original score is as integral to the film as Star Wars. And in that regard, the film lays an egg. The few briefs moments where the score evoked something in me was when old themes (like the godly Force theme, which never fails to give me chills) were trotted out. Otherwise the score was basically unmemorable noise. As tends to be the case for most Abrams films, this sucker needed another pass or two in the writer's room. It's quite messy at times, jumps around a lot, and certain events and character motivations are foggy. It's nowhere near the mess his ST2009 was on a writing level, but it still is clunky at times and occasionally delved a bit too far into fanservice. As far as fanservice goes, I can't put all the blame on Abrams. Clearly this was designed to be a safe film from the get go. This is both a negative and a positive. The negative being that the movie doesn't really do anything original or take any risks, and hews closely to the structure of A New Hope. The positive being that it delivers pretty much exactly what fans have been clamoring for the past 30 years. My last minor complaint is that, while I loved Daisy Ridley and her performance, I thought her acting got really dodgy whenever she had to express pain or anguish.
Other than that, I really, truly loved it. It's gorgeously shot. It looks and feels like what this world would look like 30 years after the OT. The dirt and lived in feel that was sadly lacking in Lucas' second trilogy returns here in spades. Abrams' direction and the editing always keep the film moving and exciting. The marriage of CG to prosthetics and real sets and locations was amazing and evoked the OT perfectly. The movie was hilarious and the cast was impeccable and all the new leads had great chemistry. Despite mentioning her above as a negative, 95% of the time I absolutely loved Daisy Ridley - what a discovery. Boyega and Isaac feel like they were both born to be in a Star Wars movie. Harrison Ford appeared to give a shit again here, and his performance brought a smile to my face. What the film really nailed for me was the snappy banter between characters(very OT-esque) and the "moments". It nailed them. Things like Solo's return or the Force theme swelling when Rey uses the force to pull Luke's lightsaber out of the snow. Or the Luke reveal. That stuff was perfect (even if Luke was a big fat tease).
Nothing is knocking Fury Road down off the pedestal for top blockbuster of 2015, but The Force Awakens is a close second for me. A great, if too safe, resurrection of the OT spirit. Can't wait to see Episode VIII.
1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. The Force Awakens
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. Attack of the Clones
WadiumArcadium
Member
It's not the most eventful novel but I enjoyed it. His background was really interesting.
yo, Ventress vs Anakin was damn great after the rain kicks in. Him powering through her force push was a legit "oh shit" moment.
JJ confirmed it - that's exactly what you heard. And right after that, Ewan McGregor said 'these are your first steps'.
JJ also said Yoda was in that sequence somewhere but I'll have to watch it again because I don't recall hearing him.
Further explanation on how R2 woke up at the end:
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens
This was definitely a moment that needed some explaining.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/2...-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens
This was definitely a moment that needed some explaining.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
People have went over why it's different already. If you disagree that's fine but not everyone feels the way you do.
People making it seem like everybody who says Rey is a Mary Sue wants everyone to agree with them, which isn't the case.
MiamiWesker
Member
Oh it's strictly a numbers thing it seems. They spend a lifetime training these kids, they don't want to lose an investment so quick. The book mentions their special forces and pilots specifically, it was mentioned in the TIE fighter page and it says the empire viewed tie pilots as expendable but the FO values them so they added shields.
MisterHero
Super Member
BS. They will explain it in a future novel and 6-part comic book series. They just decided not to explain things properly
What a flimsy explanation. If that's what they wanted to convey, they failed horribly. There is no causal link established between those two events in the movie when it should be easy to do so.
They should have described it as the map to a Jedi temple where they believe Luke is rather than describing it as a map to Luke Skywalker.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
lol Abrams' explanation for R2 waking up is a lot dumber than I thought.
I had assumed they would explain it as Luke deciding he's ready to be found and sending out a signal to R2 or some shit.
I had assumed they would explain it as Luke deciding he's ready to be found and sending out a signal to R2 or some shit.
That one I actually liked, and I was really disappointed they dropped Gendy and went with an all CG series.
MiamiWesker
Member
Yup yoda is in there, sounds like a clip from ESB.
They honestly have no faith in their audience. I mean they flat out say Return of the Jedi style fleet Battle was axed because too many ship types would confuse people.
The Jedi all got jobbed hard by a bunch of clones.
Those "arguments" require ignoring things Luke did in the originals that are equal to or greater than what Rey pulled off, ignoring things TFA goes out of its way to explain, or simply applying a double standard to Rey.
petethepanda
Member
I thought the R2 thing was conveyed well enough in the movie. Went into a low power state until he could see Luke again, another droid rolls up with what he needs to find Luke, he wakes up.
Also, it's worth pointing out how awesome and civil this thread has been.
Also, it's worth pointing out how awesome and civil this thread has been.
That upsets me. Whatever happened to trusting your audience?
WadiumArcadium
Member
No, the first time BB-8 rolls up and starts beeping at R2, nothing happens. R2 only wakes up at the end, seemingly unprompted.
As much as I liked it, I keep coming back to thinking the story in this is a goddamned mess. It seems they really didn't bother with trying to tell a story that made sense but rather tell a story that pushed buttons.
petethepanda
Member
Ah, right. Forgot about the earlier time.
JetBlackPanda
Member
Isn't Rey in the room the second time?
DarkHeartedKill
Member
ha yeah, they explained that in the second one. The clones that all die by a single shot got the better of these Jedi...okay.
Is this Mary Sue thing still going on? Come on people...
It doesn't seem like it...It was.
Honestly for a moment thought that they were about to go that route
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