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[Bowdz]

Man I loved the movie but I'm really disappointed with the musical score. Some of the themes are great but the sin "Torn Apart" that is Hans death just blows my mind.

Williams did wonderful work with RotS, and the last act of that movie shines brightly becuase of the emotionally charged music in those scenes.

The fact that Han gets this wimper really made his death underwhelming.

Sorry it's late and I'm pretty tired but after a couple of days just slowling listing and processing the music it just doesn't click at all and its pretty depressing.

I completely agree. My biggest gripe with the film was William's score. It wasn't bad by any stretch, but it was entirely devoid of any iconic themes. The highlights of the score were always some use of the old themes. Who would've guessed?

 

[MMarston]

Because it doesn't need to be. Jesus Christ.

Some of yall want a 5 hour film with full length backstory flashbacks for each character

This is what the golden age of television does to ya

 

[ghst]

"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home"

i don't see why it makes any difference if they mention it in the film or not. she's a pilot yeah? it's probably in a book somewhere.

 

[randomengine]

My two biggest beefs with the narrative involve the new Jar Jar Binks - the character of Finn and the inclusion of the characters from the first trilogy, who are now obviously older. The two problems could actually fix each other if written properly.

I want to speak first about the original characters. Recall in A New Hope, Alec Guinness played an old Obi-Wan. He was an old man who did mostly talking and only acted when necessary. Here we have Han Solo - a 70 year-old man, running around like he is in his 30s. That's just.....weird. He should be sitting on some star system managing smugglers, not doing all the grunt work. Watching Ford wobbling around was awkward to see. And then to see Organa in field gear at her age, rather than being a princess somewhere in a counsel or doing managerial stuff - see old people in real life aren't running around doing anything. They mostly sit, talk, and manage things.

Now the Finn problem. This character has serious issues. He is mostly comedy relief in a main character, which is awkward, but Lethal Weapon did it with Danny Glover, so given the right circumstances, it can be done. The problem is you have someone who in terms of personality is both retarded (mentally underdeveloped) and a child (emotionally underdeveloped). Now, I could buy that if the other stormtroopers acted that way, but this is the first I've seen of a stormtrooper of this kind. They all seem rather competent and can follow orders pretty expertly even if they aren't as skilled as the main characters. Finn acts like someone who has an IQ barely above a Forrest Gump. He is a cartoon character given life. The fact that he wield a lightsaber like any other weapon and as well as the force-users is a problem as well.

Now the main narrative problem is that you need Solo and Organa in the thick of things - because of the central conceit. I understand that, but here is how you could accomplish that - Make Finn Solo's apprentice and surrogate son, someone who took over the smuggling business after the falling out with Kylo Ren. This creates natural tension between Ren and Finn and ties Finn into the mythology rather than just being some joke character that was in the right place at the right time. Finn's goofiness could be explained by being Solo's apprentice and Finn being the only person dumb enough to take orders from Solo - Finn is loyal to the old man. What a terribly wasted opportunity.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Why do people say that Kylo Ren is a "good swordfighter"? How many lightsabres has he gone up against in the last 5-10 years?

He's unrefined, and rusty as hell. And he took a shot to the stomach. And Finn got a hit in.

How many people has he interrogated and mind probed over the years? Still took an L like it was nothing.

 

[Arkeband]

Reposting from earlier:

Rey and the piloting thing - read Greg Rucka's Before the Awakening. It just came out yesterday. In Rey's story, she finds an old working flight simulator/trainer while scavenging and because she's so lonely all the time, learns it backwards and forwards. Frankly she's probably one of the best pilots out there with no actual flight time because the simulator had tons and tons of different starships to practice on. It's where she picked up a lot of mechanical skills too.

Sounds like Knights of Sidonia's premise for their hero:

The story follows the exploits of Nagate Tanikaze, who lived in the underground layer of Sidonia since birth and was raised by his grandfather. Never having met anyone else, he trains himself in an old Guardian pilot simulator every day, eventually mastering it. After his grandfather's death, he emerges to the surface and is selected as a Guardian pilot, just as Sidonia is once again threatened by the Gauna.

 

[Toxi]

I thought the track that played when Rey was walking out of the Star Destroyer was pretty great.

 

[Kinsei]

That's not explained in the film though.

Even without it it's not hard to infer. She says she's a pilot and we\'re introduced to her searching from scrap from old ships in order to get food. It's not a big leap to assume that working ships get you more food and so growing up she picked up the skills to repair and fly old ships in order to survive.

I get the complaints about her using force powers too fast, but the complaint about her flying the Falcon baffles me.

 

[Armaros]

Even without it it's not hard to infer. She says she's a pilot and we're introduced to her searching from scrap from old ships in order to get food. It's not a big leap to assume that working ships get you more food and so growing up she picked up the skills to repair and fly old ships in order to survive.

I get the complaints about her using force powers too fast, but the complaint about her flying the Falcon baffles me.

She even holds a conversation with Han about what the previous owner did to the ship ( that made it worse) and successfully fixed it.

 

[Scrooged]

I suppose, mind trick should kinda be on a bigger league than baby's force jedi power tho

I think the movie did a good job at showing that Rey is extremely special when it comes to the force. It's not a coincidence that Snoke feels an awakening in the Force just as Rey is gaining her powers.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Because it doesn't need to be. Jesus Christ.

Some of yall want a 5 hour film with full length backstory flashbacks for each character

So what?

I mean it explains why Rey is such a good pilot. A point that people are confused by during the falcon chase.

 

[Toxi]

My two biggest beefs with the narrative involve the new Jar Jar Binks - the character of Finn and the inclusion of the characters from the first trilogy, who are now obviously older. The two problems could actually fix each other if written properly.

...

Now the Finn problem. This character has serious issues. He is mostly comedy relief in a main character, which is awkward, but Lethal Weapon did it with Danny Glover, so given the right circumstances, it can be done. The problem is you have someone who in terms of personality is both retarded (mentally underdeveloped) and a child (emotionally underdeveloped). Now, I could buy that if the other stormtroopers acted that way, but this is the first I've seen of a stormtrooper of this kind. They all seem rather competent and can follow orders pretty expertly even if they aren't as skilled as the main characters. Finn acts like someone who has an IQ barely above a Forrest Gump. He is a cartoon character given life. The fact that he wield a lightsaber like any other weapon and as well as the force-users is a problem as well.

What the hell? Where did you get the impression that Finn was mentally underdeveloped? Or even emotionally underdeveloped? "IQ barely above a Forest Gump"?

 

[CoolOff]

How many people has he interrogated and mind probed over the years? Still took an L like it was nothing.

Yes, but we established on the ship that Rey was incredibly resilient towards it.

 

[Arkeband]

My two biggest beefs with the narrative involve the new Jar Jar Binks - the character of Finn and the inclusion of the characters from the first trilogy, who are now obviously older. The two problems could actually fix each other if written properly.

I want to speak first about the original characters. Recall in A New Hope, Alec Guinness played an old Obi-Wan. He was an old man who did mostly talking and only acted when necessary. Here we have Han Solo - a 70 year-old man, running around like he is in his 30s. That's just.....weird. He should be sitting on some star system managing smugglers, not doing all the grunt work. Watching Ford wobbling around was awkward to see. And then to see Organa in field gear at her age, rather than being a princess somewhere in a counsel or doing managerial stuff - see old people in real life aren't running around doing anything. They mostly sit, talk, and manage things.

Now the Finn problem. This character has serious issues. He is mostly comedy relief in a main character, which is awkward, but Lethal Weapon did it with Danny Glover, so given the right circumstances, it can be done. The problem is you have someone who in terms of personality is both retarded (mentally underdeveloped) and a child (emotionally underdeveloped). Now, I could buy that if the other stormtroopers acted that way, but this is the first I've seen of a stormtrooper of this kind. They all seem rather competent and can follow orders pretty expertly even if they aren't as skilled as the main characters. Finn acts like someone who has an IQ barely above a Forrest Gump. He is a cartoon character given life. The fact that he wield a lightsaber like any other weapon and as well as the force-users is a problem as well.

Now the main narrative problem is that you need Solo and Organa in the thick of things - because of the central conceit. I understand that, but here is how you could accomplish that - Make Finn Solo's apprentice and surrogate son, someone who took over the smuggling business after the falling out with Kylo Ren. This creates natural tension between Ren and Finn and ties Finn into the mythology rather than just being some joke character that was in the right place at the right time. Finn's goofiness could be explained by being Solo's apprentice and Finn being the only person dumb enough to take orders from Solo - Finn is loyal to the old man. What a terribly wasted opportunity.

Finn sounded like he was part of an experimental batch, they probably pumped him full of midichlorians as part of some supersoldier program. (Dark Troopers come to mind)

 

[ReadingRambo]

I mean it explains why Rey is such a good pilot. A point that people are confused by during the falcon chase.

Yes. So many people. My theater was just full of people loudly asking "how can she fly?". /s

 

[bananafactory]

OK guys here's what we need

A new prequel trilogy

Episode 6.5 - Rey's Delivery Service


Rey learns to fly!! Join us and the wacky adventures of a Jakku Scavenger who transports parts for people.

Episode 6.6 - Finn Rises

In this exciting chapter we follow a young Stormtrooper cadet in training. Watch Finn receive advanced hand to hand combat in staffs and swords, and exciting beach volleyball matches with his wingmates

Episode 6.7 - Happily Never After: A Han and Leia tale

In this somber film, we explore how a rogue son turned evil and Netflix arguments drive apart the princess and the smuggler. The missing piece in the Star Wars legacy that everyone has been asking for is here.

 

[Quote]

The more people complain about Kylo Rem vs Ren, the more likely they're going to spoon feed us his backstory about how he is just a baby Sith. So, stop it before you ruin it for everyone.

 

[Professor Lich]

Don't forget that Rey is left with some random old dude who could of shown her some things. Granted, not sure how that goes in said book that's been mentioned.

 

[randomengine]

What the hell? Where did you get the impression that Finn was mentally underdeveloped? Or even emotionally underdeveloped?

His actions, emotions, and motivations are not that of an adult human being. He does things using child-logic. He lies to people, not because he is clever, but because he will do anything to accomplish what he wants without thinking of the natural consequences of those actions.

 

[foxuzamaki]

My two biggest beefs with the narrative involve the new Jar Jar Binks - the character of Finn and the inclusion of the characters from the first trilogy, who are now obviously older. The two problems could actually fix each other if written properly.

I want to speak first about the original characters. Recall in A New Hope, Alec Guinness played an old Obi-Wan. He was an old man who did mostly talking and only acted when necessary. Here we have Han Solo - a 70 year-old man, running around like he is in his 30s. That's just.....weird. He should be sitting on some star system managing smugglers, not doing all the grunt work. Watching Ford wobbling around was awkward to see. And then to see Organa in field gear at her age, rather than being a princess somewhere in a counsel or doing managerial stuff - see old people in real life aren't running around doing anything. They mostly sit, talk, and manage things.

Now the Finn problem. This character has serious issues. He is mostly comedy relief in a main character, which is awkward, but Lethal Weapon did it with Danny Glover, so given the right circumstances, it can be done. The problem is you have someone who in terms of personality is both retarded (mentally underdeveloped) and a child (emotionally underdeveloped). Now, I could buy that if the other stormtroopers acted that way, but this is the first I've seen of a stormtrooper of this kind. They all seem rather competent and can follow orders pretty expertly even if they aren't as skilled as the main characters. Finn acts like someone who has an IQ barely above a Forrest Gump. He is a cartoon character given life. The fact that he wield a lightsaber like any other weapon and as well as the force-users is a problem as well.

Now the main narrative problem is that you need Solo and Organa in the thick of things - because of the central conceit. I understand that, but here is how you could accomplish that - Make Finn Solo's apprentice and surrogate son, someone who took over the smuggling business after the falling out with Kylo Ren. This creates natural tension between Ren and Finn and ties Finn into the mythology rather than just being some joke character that was in the right place at the right time. Finn's goofiness could be explained by being Solo's apprentice and Finn being the only person dumb enough to take orders from Solo - Finn is loyal to the old man. What a terribly wasted opportunity.

You seem to be missing a great deal of things, like Finn's character, every storm trooper, atleast in the order arent like finn because they basically brainwash them, finn lived his whole life being trained to be a stormtrooper essentially, because of that, he isnt great outside of that, this is kinda obvious.


Also this is star wars, old people have done alot, even kicked alot of ass in SW, especially if they're jedi, infact it could be argued that the older you are, the stronger you are more likely to be,

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Yes. So many people. My theater was just full of people louding asking "how can she fly?". /s

OK guys here's what we need

A new prequel trilogy

Episode 6.5 - Rey's Delivery Service


Rey learns to fly!! Join us and the wacky adventures of a Jakku Scavenger who transports parts for people.

Episode 6.6 - Finn Rises

In this exciting chapter we follow a young Stormtrooper cadet in training. Watch Finn receive advanced hand to hand combat in staffs and swords, and exciting beach volleyball matches with his wingmates

Episode 6.7 - Happily Never After: A Han and Leia tale

In this somber film, we explore how a rogue son turned evil and Netflix arguments drive apart the princess and the smuggler. The missing piece in the Star Wars legacy that everyone has been asking for is here.

I mean you guys can go there if you want to. Doesn't bother me.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I love how Luke brags about the equivalent of shooting cans with an air rifle to trained military.

It's fucking great.

 

[d1rtn4p]

How many people has he interrogated and mind probed over the years? Still took an L like it was nothing.

Then he runs off and cries to Snoke about it...

 

[Toxi]

His actions, emotions, and motivations are not that of an adult human being. He does things using child-logic. He lies to people, not being he is clever, but because he will do anything to accomplish what he wants without thinking of the consequences of those actions.

That's why tons of adults lie. And Finn even states outright that's not why he lied when he's confessing to Rey.

And Finn never came across as child-like to me.

 

[ReadingRambo]

His actions, emotions, and motivations are not that of an adult human being. He does things using child-logic. He lies to people, not being he is clever, but because he will do anything to accomplish what he wants without thinking of the consequences of those actions.

What the fuck is this?

 

[shira]

old people in real life aren't running around doing anything. They mostly sit, talk, and manage things.

 

[-griffy-]

His actions, emotions, and motivations are not that of an adult human being. He does things using child-logic. He lies to people, not being he is clever, but because he will do anything to accomplish what he wants without thinking of the consequences of those actions.

Or because he's scared, and aspires to be something more than what he is, and is ashamed to admit who he really is because he doesn't want to let those who depend on him down. You know, he's human.

 

[jstevenson]

The duel with Ren and Rey didn't bother me. Like, I could tell they were twerps at being jedi/sith and that a Luke or Vader would mop the floor with either of them and that Ren was working while injured. Ren is established like that the entire movie. Honestly, most of the First Order seems like they're a pale shell of the original empire and I like to think that's the intention.

My problem was Rey's magical Millennium Falcon piloting abilities.

She said she's a pilot.

She has a flight simulator inside her walker she used to learn how to fly.

*shrug*

 

[Vincent4756]

I completely agree. My biggest gripe with the film was William's score. It wasn't bad by any stretch, but it was entirely devoid of any iconic themes. The highlights of the score were always some use of the old themes. Who would've guessed?

Yea it was odd to say the least. Like the Opening is fantastic in the sense of traditional fanfare to OK shit is serious.

Rey's Theme is awesome and the mixing of it and the older themes in the first falcon chase is great. Other then that there isn't much.

This is a case where some one like Desplat, Giachhino or hell even freaking Hans Zimmer would have done a better job I think.

 

[randomengine]

You seem to be missing a great deal of things, like Finn's character, every storm trooper, atleast in the order arent like finn because they basically brainwash them, finn lived his whole life being trained to be a stormtrooper essentially, because of that, he isnt great outside of that, this is kinda obvious.


Also this is star wars, old people have done alot, even kicked alot of ass in SW, especially if they're jedi, infact it could be argued that the older you are, the stronger you are more likely to be,

That only applies to force-users. Which makes sense. 70 year-old swashbuckling smugglers are a bridge too far.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I like how I can leave this topic for a day and comeback to the newest page and it's just like the one I left off from.

 

[ReadingRambo]

I mean you guys can go there if you want to. Doesn't bother me.

It's clearly what you need. A firm hand holding and an adult next to you in the theater to explain everything.

 

[Oni Link 666]

Just saw it for the second time.

Kylo Ren is so evil, he's funny. He's like some cartoon villain. He tries so hard to not be seduced by the light side. He has to be extra evil in everything he does.

I don't think there's a story connection to Plagueis in this movie. Snoke does look like him and he's huge like on the cover of the book and there's the music, but we just don't know enough to say he is Plagueis. He could be or he could just be inspired by him or completely unrelated.

I first thought Rey had maybe seen Jedi in action when she was young, and that's how she knew some Jedi skills, but now I think she just got them from picking up Luke's lightsaber. That was the force awakening. I think Luke set these force triggered things around for Rey. There's the lightsaber and then there's R2. Luke knows about her already.

Am I the only one who thought "Chewy's going apeshit" when Han died and he, went apeshit?

BB-8 is the son of R2-D2 and QT-KT.

Luke did look like he was in front of a grave. Maybe it's Mara Jade's. He also looked sad and tired. Maybe strggling with the Dark Side.

I think the next movie is going to be a Jedi overload with the training. Maybe some force ghosts can show up and have a big Jedi get together with Rey. Yoda totally has to show up.

 

[Toa TAK]

i don't see why it makes any difference if they mention it in the film or not. she's a pilot yeah? it's probably in a book somewhere.

NOOooooooOOoooOOo

That's not how movies work.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I suppose, mind trick should kinda be on a bigger league than baby's force jedi power tho

In currently canon star wars media a padawan tried to do the jedi mind trick and failed horribly, only for his master to later tell him he requires more training or to be more in tune with the force or something.

Rey getting the jedi mind trick with little knowledge of the force and not even seeing it before hand, or even beginning her training in the force, is kind of bullshit. That's the one thing that really bothered me, beating Kylo at the end is whatever since he was severely wounded from other shit.

If the opening line of the next movie isn't "wow you're really gifted with the force, like REALLY gifted with it" then i'll just assume they are now saying the mind trick is no biggie even a no skill newbie could do it

 

[Frog-fu]

Darth Vader was about to kill Luke when his wingman clipped him, sending him spinning away from the battle, freeing Luke to "use the force" and destroy the Death Star.

Ren and that jalopy of a lightsaber put Finn in coma, killed Han fucking Solo, then fought another hero - a force user herself - while wounded.

Just because Ren isn't cookie cutter-prequel sith #637892-4, doesn't mean he is any less dangerous. Vader and Maul were cool looking but did you have any other emotions about them when you first saw them? No. They were token bad guys.

Ren taking off his mask is becoming my favorite part of the movie. With no dialog they mind fucked everyone. The entire character changed. With the mask he seemed more expressive and then without it...I was taken aback. It subverted every expectation I had. ESB gave the characters dimensions and personalities and TFA manged to do it again.

For her part Rey has a very Skywalker way of using the force and they managed to also highlight the differences between her and Ren. He lost to Rey because she seemed to learn how to draw on the force consistently. She almost approached it like a machine. She realized she could use the force and instead spending the entire movie bumbling around agonizing over it, she focused on what worked and did it.

Clearly the intent was to establish characters that will grow over the sequels and they did that. They may not be the characters people wanted, but they are what the franchise needs. They did the impossible with TFA. Cynicism has be erradicated.

It's precisely because Ren is such a great and interesting character that I have problems with that duel.

Rey had no business using the Force the way she did. That's whole crux behind my views, and I've been over why enough times that I just don't feel like repeating myself.

Your contradict yourself. You say your are not ignoring the wound and yet brush off anything but your own explanation of how she won.

And ignore his fight with Finn right before.

Er, no I haven't.

I've consistently acknowledged the wound was a factor. You seem to be ignoring the fact that Ren was winning up until that point despite of it. He didn't succumb to his wounds in the end. He got pummeled because Rey got a power up.

Ren was deliberately toying with Finn who nicked him - once - before he destroyed him in like 5 seconds.

 

[foxuzamaki]

That only applies to force-users. Which makes sense. 70 year-old swashbuckling smugglers are a bridge too far.

This is also a fictional universe.

 

[Monocle]

That's not explained in the film though.

Part of creating a world that extends beyond the screen is not to explain every little detail. Movies that explain too much are rarely as effective as movies that play out like life, where you don't know the exact reasons behind all or even most things. Believable characters tend to have unstated backstory that their skills and actions are informed by. It's efficient storytelling.

 

[BTM]

I like how I can leave this topic for a day and comeback to the newest page and it's just like the one I left off from.

It's pretty hilarious

 

[Renekton]

Good post. Kylo's characterization in TFA is outstanding. He could have been a one-note Vader rehash. Instead he defies your expectations and turns into one of the most complex characters in the movie.

Well he will be even more sympathetic once Rey with half a training wipes the floor with him.

 

[bananafactory]

I like how I can leave this topic for a day and comeback to the newest page and it's just like the one I left off from.

It's like poetry

 

[ReadingRambo]

NOOooooooOOoooOOo

That's not how movies work.

Good thing its established seconds before she gets in the Falcon that she can fly.

 

[MMarston]

Man, I can't wait for Star Wars month to be over.

 

[MisterHero]

I didn't write the movie, but she IS a pilot.
Finn "we need a pilot!"
Rey "weve got one!"
Also tells Han shes a pretty good pilot iirc.
I'm just going to assume you had similar problems with Luke's mastery of the X-wing.

A New Hope references Luke's piloting experience a few times. Also he isn't a solo master of dogfighting; he, Wedge, Biggs and a few others worked as a cooperative unit.

He also said the trench reminded him of Beggar's Canyon

Rey and the piloting thing - read Greg Rucka's Before the Awakening. It just came out yesterday. In Rey's story, she finds an old working flight simulator/trainer while scavenging and because she's so lonely all the time, learns it backwards and forwards. Frankly she's probably one of the best pilots out there with no actual flight time because the simulator had tons and tons of different starships to practice on. It's where she picked up a lot of mechanical skills too.

Stuff like this could've/should've been in the movie, like after she finishes eating or something. Is it that hard?

 

[ghst]

i want to know if finn was originally the happy go lucky rogue who they decided late on to rewrite into a fleeing stormtrooper for plot reasons, or a fleeing stormtrooper who was originally a lot more convincing to the concept who they decided to rewrite as a happy go lucky rogue for character interaction reasons.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

It's clearly what you need. A firm hand holding and an adult next to you in the theater to explain everything.

I'm glad you came out and said it.
What makes adults take such harmless criticism so personally?

 

[aliengmr]

I suppose, mind trick should kinda be on a bigger league than baby's force jedi power tho

This is OT jedi, not PT jedi.

One's ability to use the force isn't determined by fixed levels. She figured out how get in to Ren's head and was successful. So like any other person that finds out they have that ability, she tried it on the guard because why the fuck not?

 

[Charles Foster Kane]

Can we talk about how hard Rey humiliated Kylo? Shit was lol. loved it.

 

[foxuzamaki]

In currently canon star wars media a padawan tried to do the jedi mind trick and failed horribly, only for his master to later tell him he requires more training or to be more in tune with the force or something.

Rey getting the jedi mind trick with little knowledge of the force and not even seeing it before hand, or even beginning her training in the force, is kind of bullshit. That's the one thing that really bothered me, beating Kylo at the end is whatever since he was severely wounded from other shit.

If the opening line of the next movie isn't "wow you're really gifted with the force, like REALLY gifted with it" then i'll just assume they are now saying the mind trick is no biggie even a no skill newbie could do it

That's basically how I feel. Thats why she HAS to be luke's daughter to be having hax this early in the story.

 

[Toxi]

i want to know if finn was originally the happy go lucky rogue who they decided late on to rewrite into a fleeing stormtrooper for plot reasons, or a fleeing stormtrooper who was originally a lot more convincing to the concept who they decided to rewrite as a happy go lucky rogue for character interaction reasons.

How the hell did you watch the movie and get "happy-go-lucky rogue" from Finn's dialogue?

Every other line out of his mouth is worrying about the First Order. He's a worrywart.