[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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BrokenFiction said:
Reposting from earlier:

Rey and the piloting thing - read Greg Rucka's Before the Awakening. It just came out yesterday. In Rey's story, she finds an old working flight simulator/trainer while scavenging and because she's so lonely all the time, learns it backwards and forwards. Frankly she's probably one of the best pilots out there with no actual flight time because the simulator had tons and tons of different starships to practice on. It's where she picked up a lot of mechanical skills too.
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Luke learns to fly an X-Wing in a matter of hours with a simulator in the radio drama.
I guess Rey being a great pilot is not unprecedented, especially if she happens to be a Skywalker. Seems to be in their blood. Or Midichlorians if you will.
 
MMarston said:
Man, I can't wait for Star Wars month to be over.
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month?

giphy.gif
 
Frog-fu said:
No one is ignoring the bowcaster wound. Problem is that it had little to do with Ren losing. He lost because Rey is, for whatever reason, a master of the Force despite having no training, because reasons.
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You cannot say that you're not ignoring the bowcaster wound while simultaneously saying that there is no reason Rey could have gotten the better of him. You need to offer an argument for why the wound it irrelevant. Otherwise, you are deliberately going out of your way not to make sense in order to maintain that Ren had no reason to lose despite 'acknowledging' an explicit factor that lead to him losing.
 
Admiral Woofington said:
In currently canon star wars media a padawan tried to do the jedi mind trick and failed horribly, only for his master to later tell him he requires more training or to be more in tune with the force or something.

Rey getting the jedi mind trick with little knowledge of the force and not even seeing it before hand, or even beginning her training in the force, is kind of bullshit. That's the one thing that really bothered me, beating Kylo at the end is whatever since he was severely wounded from other shit.

If the opening line of the next movie isn't "wow you're really gifted with the force, like REALLY gifted with it" then i'll just assume they are now saying the mind trick is no biggie even a no skill newbie could do it
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I don't see a problem with her being really gifted with it. Kylo seems to be threatened by her, Luke wanted to hide her for some reason. My guess is that he recognized how powerful she would be and wasnt willing to risk her turning to the dark side. She seems like a special case and I'm cool with that. We could use an OP force user to shake things up a bit.
 
If you guys haven't read the Art of the Force Awakens book you really should. Some great stuff in there expanding on the film and even interesting things that didn't make it

The "Jedikiller" character that eventually became Kylo Ren originally consumed Sun power himself. It was changed to fuel the Starkiller Base weapon instead
 
Kylo Ren was failboat. The only success he had the entire film was killing his 70 year-old father who practically stood there to be killed.

Seriously, the entire film was Kylo Ren failing either in person or by proxy. Cool-looking character, but I would not have any faith in him to accomplish any job I ask him to do.
 
randomengine said:
His actions, emotions, and motivations are not that of an adult human being. He does things using child-logic. He lies to people, not because he is clever, but because he will do anything to accomplish what he wants without thinking of the natural consequences of those actions.
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Umm what? Did we watch the same movie? How in Gods name did he act child like?
 
I like how so many people are upset about Finn (a non-force user) wielding the lightsaber with some competency, even though the prequel trilogy had a four-armed cyborg with no force powers whatsover wield four to six of them like he was a part of a cirque du soleil act.

I'm sure Finn had CQC training as a Stormtrooper, and just applied it to the saber. It doesn't seem that far of a leap, AND he lost both fights he used them in. So he wasn't a master by any means.
 
BTM said:
I just got to say Rey sledding down the sand dune was awesome.
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Everything up to when they met Han Solo was pure gold. The things this film could have been if they didn't have to play to people who just wanted OT over again.
 
randomengine said:
Kylo Ren was failboat. The only success he had the entire film was killing his 70 year-old father who practically stood there to be killed.

Seriously, the entire film was Kylo Ren failing either in person or by proxy. Cool-looking character, but I would not have any faith in him to accomplish any job I ask him to do.
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Ok... so did Vader, with that logic
 
Rey was knocking around the Falcon pretty rough when she first started piloting it. Not exactly ace pilot.

She learned the jedi mind trick from being exposed to the mind-scan from Kylo. And it didn't even work the first try.
 
randomengine said:
Kylo Ren was failboat. The only success he had the entire film was killing his 70 year-old father who practically stood there to be killed.

Seriously, the entire film was Kylo Ren failing either in person or by proxy. Cool-looking character, but I would not have any faith in him to accomplish any job I ask him to do.
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Kylo Ren succeeds right at the start of the movie by pulling the info about BB8 from Poe. Remember how Vader failed to get a word out of Leia when he tortured her?
 
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
 
Toxi said:
Kylo Ren succeeds right at the start of the movie by pulling the info about BB8 from Poe. Remember how Vader failed to get a word out of Leia when he tortured her?
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Leia is inherently strong in the force, so if someone tried something like reading her mind or drugging her, she could fight it off with the force and will power, whether she was aware of it or not.
 
Toxi said:
Kylo Ren succeeds right at the start of the movie by pulling the info about BB8 from Poe. Remember how Vader failed to get a word out of Leia when he tortured her?
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Force user vs normal person and Force user vs Force user. Not exactly fair comparison.
 
JetBlackPanda said:
Oh my hell this Mary Sue shit is everywhere I look online.

We can't have fun anymore can we?
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Maybe they hid things on purpose because they want Star Wars fans to consume it across various media like books, comics, future movies.

just be aware the standalone movies are slightly (if not a lot) weaker because of it
 
Blargonaut said:
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
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IMO it's a failure of the audience to even think the bolded is remotely necessary
 
Blargonaut said:
This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view..
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this is blasphemy as far as I'm concerned.

the more I read the more I am so deeply, deeply glad that the lot of us are not, collectively, in charge of making these movies
 
Toxi said:
Kylo Ren succeeds right at the start of the movie by pulling the info about BB8 from Poe. Remember how Vader failed to get a word out of Leia when he tortured her?
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I don't remember seeing a scene with Leia tortured, she does look like she is in rather pristine condition when Luke and Han attempt to rescue her, so it couldn't be as bad as what happened to Poe.
 
In the topic of Finn, he was pretty decent with handling grunts but any one of them that got serious wrecked his shit. I do hope he becomes more than the comic relief though. Now that his role as the man with critical inside knowledge is done, I hope he gets some training off screen or something. It'd be nice if he could at least take on a mid-tier baddie.

LookAtMeGo said:
I don't see a problem with her being really gifted with it. Kylo seems to be threatened by her, Luke wanted to hide her for some reason. My guess is that he recognized how powerful she would be and wasnt willing to risk her turning to the dark side. She seems like a special case and I'm cool with that. We could use an OP force user to shake things up a bit.
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I already had an OP force user, it was Star killer and he was so OP it kind of was a joke. Also aren't you using your assumption that Luke=father a bit too early on? While implied it shouldn't really be used as an argument quite yet lol
 
randomengine said:
Kylo Ren was failboat. The only success he had the entire film was killing his 70 year-old father who practically stood there to be killed.

Seriously, the entire film was Kylo Ren failing either in person or by proxy. Cool-looking character, but I would not have any faith in him to accomplish any job I ask him to do.
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It's called conflict. I like that Ren isn't quite badass. He is really just a chump and a jerk. A Vader wannabee in the worst way.
But that is kind of refreshing that we see this villain struggle just as much as his opponents. No one necessarily has the upper hand here and it works for this movie.
 
Blargonaut said:
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
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Oh god that sounds horrible. Seriously? We don't need everything explained. In her 18 years on Jakku she learned basic piloting skills. She is force sensative and it obviously helped her navigate the destroyer.

That is good enough. Not some clip of her learning to fly in VR.
 
BTM said:
I just got to say Rey sledding down the sand dune was awesome.
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It's probably my favourite shot in the entire film. Well, that or the bridge scene.

Veelk said:
You cannot say that you're not ignoring the bowcaster wound while simultaneously saying that there is no reason Rey could have gotten the better of him. You need to offer an argument for why the wound it irrelevant. Otherwise, you are deliberately going out of your way not to make sense in order to maintain that Ren had no reason to lose despite 'acknowledging' an explicit factor that lead to him losing.
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It might help if you read my posts.

I haven't ignored the bowcast because I've already stated that it slowed him down and affected his stamina. I didn't say Rey couldn't have won that fight. Hell, I've said Ren losing the fight isn't even problem.

The problem is the way he lost fight. Injured or not, Ren was winning right up until the power up.

That's the problem. I've already stated that if Rey won by exploiting his wounds, fighting dirty, tiring him out, etc. I wouldn't have a problem with her whooping him.

It's the sudden "and now I am one with the Force so I win" bullshit that bothers me. Not Ren losing.
 
Admiral Woofington said:
In the topic of Finn, he was pretty decent with handling grunts but any one of them that got serious wrecked his shit. I do hope he becomes more than the comic relief though. Now that his role as the man with critical inside knowledge is done, I hope he gets some training off screen or something. It'd be nice if he could at least take on a mid-tier baddie.
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I really appreciated how, even though he did "lose" a lot, he never came off as weak or a coward. Maybe that's speaking more to Boyega's performance than the script, but Finn came off plenty capable.
 
bananafactory said:
IMO it's a failure of the audience to even think the bolded is remotely necessary
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Right? It's as if people need to be spoonfed every single detail instead of letting their minds fill in the blanks.

She's a pilot. We don't need to know how she learned how to be a pilot. She just is.
 
Blargonaut said:
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
Click to expand...

The narrative was clearly implying she's Luke's daughter, so if both Anakin and Luke are basically inherently great at piloting, so is she. Who taught Anakin to be a master podracer? No one. Who taught Luke to fly X-wings? No one. They just do it. It's like they pass down skill and experience with their genetics.
 
Replicant said:
Force user vs normal person and Force user vs Force user. Not exactly fair comparison.
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Even against non-force user (Finn) he managed to get hit. This same Finn who got owned by a regular stormtrooper.

I fear Kylo will stay underpowered throughout the series with Snoke intended as the best threat. He will just uphill climb all series with no payoff.
 
Blargonaut said:
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
Click to expand...
You know, this is one part that made me sad, not any real fault of the movie, when she first put that helmet on I got a flashback to anakin in the podracer, and thought she just found his old helmet somewhere, and thought it was cool, but once it got to the resistance I soon kinda realized that it wasent really anakin's helmet but actually just a rebel helmet, it would have been a cool throw back but then again she wasent on tattooine so it didnt make much sense for it to be there.
 
Armaros said:
I wonder how much of this thread would be about how the movie just threw stuff directly in your face because it assumed your were too stupid to put things together if they did do it that way.
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I mean, one of the biggest problems with the prequels was trying to explain every little detail. So it's just odd to me people want more of that.
 
I really really really hope they don't go too far on this "[character X] is somehow descendant of Anakin"

Obi-Wan: not Anakin's child. pretty powerful in the force

the Emperor: not Anakin's child. pretty powerful in the force

Yoda: not Anakin's child. pretty powerful in the force

it would be really disappointing if Rey was Luke's daughter
 
Cptkrush said:
Right? It's as if people need to be spoonfed every single detail instead of letting their minds fill in the blanks.

She's a pilot. We don't need to know how she learned how to be a pilot. She just is.
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Apparently some people need a damn good explanation for why Rey can do anything at all.
 
Blargonaut said:
Rey's piloting expertise thanks to flight sims could have been easily displayed in the movie with a 5-second-or-so scene of her fiddling with a controller while wearing some kind of holo-VR-looking headset during the Jakku home dinner scene. Perhaps swiping through a selection of different vessel types popping up as holograms with 'logged flight time' counters floating beside each one, to show that her competence didn't come out of nowhere.

This could have replaced those few nothing-seconds of clip where she was helmet-cosplaying as a Rebel fighter pilot while admiring the desert view. At least briefly showing the flight-sim stuff would have some tangible future meaning to the plot, rather than the helmet scene just vaguely hinting at her love for piloting.

IMO, it's a failure of the narrative when you either have to refer to separate lore in different media or have to project your own inference onto the scene in order to allay your confusion. It really wouldn't have been hard to weave that short explanation into the movie.
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In a movie that already spoon feeds more often than builds the world, I'd pass.

I know the helmet scene isn't exactly world building but it made me feel the boredom of her life.
 
Data West said:
A) How is she a pilot when she's said to have lived on Jakku her entire life? What kind of business would a scavenger have piloting or even have the access to a ship?

B) The Millennium Falcon was outdated 40 years ago. And in the original trilogy they reference how hard it is to pilot because of how old it is. In Star Wars world you can drive a Honda Civic and then jump into a Model T and instantly get it?
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You might not have noticed but planets are large places, and you could easily fly around from place to place without leaving atmosphere. Plus, a junkyard boss has good reasons to have a need for a pilot.
 
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