[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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SomTervo said:
Wait, people are debating this? There's nothing to it!

I'm paraphrasing, but he essentially says "One time [in the past] I was stationed here."

He's not saying "I was stationed here. All the time. Period."

In essence, he states that during the construction of Starkiller base he was there doing sanitation. But the implication obviously is that he moved onto other units/regiments and was then a literal stormtrooper.

Really clear from the dialogue that this is the case. People are so bad at reading between the lines in this movie. It's one of its strengths, imo.
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TBF, I've seen the movie once. That line didn't make sense to most people because he clearly wasn't sanitation in the beginning. You may be right but on almost every article I read about unanswered question, this one is on there.

Also, if it's "really clear" from the dialogue, why would people have to read between the lines?
 
Aiii said:
Wait, The Force grows on trees now? Like Apples?

Are Midi-chlorians Force-seeds?

I am so confused right now.
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Qui-Gon was the only one that really knew. Too bad Darth Maul had no idea he was a spy for the Sith. Otherwise he wouldn't have killed him.
 
Aiii said:
Wait, The Force grows on trees now? Like Apples?

Are Midi-chlorians Force-seeds?

I am so confused right now.
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They were from the Jedi Temple on Coruscant originally. One theory is it could increase your force sensitivity by living near one. It plays into Yoda's 'the force is in everything' theory, these trees are just a bit OP.
 
I want to see Luke lightsaber fight someone. Ren, I guess.

Rey and Luke can both go against Ren together and Ren can kill Luke too.

Luke could be dead by the end of VIII but should be dead by the end of IX.
 
thecouncil said:
I want to see Luke lightsaber fight someone. Ren, I guess.

Rey and Luke can both go against Ren together and Ren can kill Luke too.

Luke could be dead by the end of VIII but should be dead by the end of IX.
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Why should he die? Just to continue copying exactly from the OT? If they were smart he should just train Rey and let the new cast lead the next 2 movies.
 
FeD.nL said:
Except he does in the novelization of the film.


Though it could very well be this entire story thread has been abandoned late in production and the book was already being printed.
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God, I am fucking glad I haven't read any "novelisations" in years. Or any literature like that.

The writing. Hnnnng.

I think the thread is still in the film but Ren doesn't realise who Rey is – or he just doesn't vocalise it. I think this is all going to be saved for Episode 8.
 
I like the idea of the Jedi and the Sith both being wrong

They always talk about balance. Maybe a true master of the force knows that you cant reject either side of it. Instead embrace the truth that all emotions have value and require balance

You see the horrible consequences of the Old Republic and the self righteous Jedi acting as heroes and exerting control and "justice" over the universe. Inadvertently creating villains themselves

The Sith arent quite as nice a parallel reflecting Nazis, war criminals and mass murderers

I dunno. There is so much to mine but I feel like I am giving way too much thought to what "Star Wars" can be
 
So if we play by the theory that Rey is Luke's kid. She's obviously younger than Ben by a decade at least.

This puts Ben probably around prime teenage angst years when she starts showing off her connections with the force.

If Luke had a school up for new Jedi at this time, Chances are Ben was the best pupil, by far. He likely had the spotlight on him for years. Constantly being told he's the best, he WILL be the best, etc...

Then along comes a little youngling that suddenly gets that spotlight. Starts getting special treatment from his master, etc...


Basically, an overblown example of sibling rivalry (except, you know, cousins).


Even if she isn't related, and has nothing to do with his past. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben grew up constantly being told how amazing he is going to be one day. How powerful, etc...
 
SomTervo said:
1. we know he's emotionally sensitive from Ep 4-6. Prone to being self-pitying and emotional.

2. He's failed in many ways over the years, but the death of every young, new Jedi he was solely responsible for at an academy was probably the straw that broke the camel's back. Not to mention failing his two best friends in the universe - Han and Leia - by failing to salvage their son from the dark side.

Man, he must feel like shit.

3. When you combine the predisposition of #1 with the events of #2... It's little wonder the guy would self-exile and mooch about feeling sorry for himself on an isolated island for years/decades to come.

4. A lot of time has passed between the films, and a lot of events we don't know about. We can't really say whether his actions are justified/in-character or not. We'll probably see a lot more of it in episode 8.
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I'd like to remind you guys he isn't just on some random island, but the first jedi temple. While I think the regret and isolation are absolutely true, he's still clearly up to something. Looking for answers to some big question? Meditating and trying to find the wisdom he needs? I doubt he's just been pouting for years.
 
FriendlyGoat said:
I'd like to remind you guys he isn't just on some random island, but the first jedi temple. While I think the regret and isolation are absolutely true, he's still clearly up to something. Looking for answers to some big question? Meditating and trying to find the wisdom he needs? I doubt he's just been pouting for years.
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That seems to be the case
 
FeD.nL said:
Except he does in the novelization of the film.


Though it could very well be this entire story thread has been abandoned late in production and the book was already being printed.
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Traces of it are in the film. Doesn't he ask "WHAT girl?" when he first hears about her?
 
The only real "issue" I had with the movie was how Poe is presumed dead for the bulk of the second act, until he shows up to help Finn, Han, and Chewie. I would have loved to see his adventures on Jakku, trying to secure a ship to get off planet and back to the Resistance. But I also understand that the movie is already over 2 hours long, and Poe isn't a primary character just yet.

I expect we'll get more of him and Finn together in the next film, while Rey is off with Luke.

The groundwork is set, so we're going to get nothing but payoff in the next two movies. They had to reintroduce the world, as well as establish new characters, and properly handle the passing of the torch off to them. They did a great job.

I thought Ford was great. Fisher just sounds funny, because her voice has been wrecked over the years. Her performance was very much Princess Leia. She was about on par with her Empire and Jedi work. It's the lines they give her to say. A New Hope Leia was her best Leia. Her transition from badass to love interest in Empire and Jedi are what started to hurt her character.

She's still a badass in Jedi, but she takes a backseat in it after the speeder bike chase compared to Luke. In this one, she had to be there, because her character isn't dead, and we'd have to wonder where she was at as well as Luke. I think her and Han's relationship is interesting and bittersweet in this movie. You get the impression that they still love each other deeply, but the loss of their son hurt them, and they have had to deal with it in their own way.

C3PO's entrance was hilarious and perfect. Such a fun moment, subverting the usual reunion trope with humor, not to mention being a subtle callback to him interrupting Han and Leia's make out session in Empire.

I also think Rey is related to the Skywalkers in some way. Maz's line about the light saber calling to Anakin, then Luke, then Rey heavily implies that she is a Skywalker. The biggest success of this movie for me, is that it has me more looking forward to seeing what happens to Rey, Finn, Kylo, and Poe more than I'm interesting in following the old cast.

I know people want to see Luke on some next level shit, but this trilogy isn't about him. He's going to Rocky Balboa Rey's Creed. And I'm ok with that. I loved Rey and Finn. I'm also very interested in seeing how Kylo recovers from his L now that he's killed his father and seemingly purged the light side from him.
 
FeD.nL said:
Except he does in the novelization of the film.

Though it could very well be this entire story thread has been abandoned late in production and the book was already being printed.
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This scene occurs after he chases and captures her at Maz's bar, and after he's tried to interrogate her and learned she's a force user.
 
WadiumArcadium said:
Rian Johnson is still writing though.
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Didn't someone who is involved or close to 8, say that 8 was going to be "weird", implying a tonal shift?

I wonder if that means the tonal shift from A New Hope to Empire, of literaly weird, like David Lynch wierd. (Exaggeration obviously).
 
man people are really hung up on Drivers looks after the mask is off. My cousin who is 25 just wrote me that everything was perfect except for ugly dweeb Kylo.

lol wtf.
 
trikster40 said:
TBF, I've seen the movie once. That line didn't make sense to most people because he clearly wasn't sanitation in the beginning. You may be right but on almost every article I read about unanswered question, this one is on there.

Also, if it's "really clear" from the dialogue, why would people have to read between the lines?
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If you're listening to dialogue and truly paying attention to what the creators have written, thinking about each thing the character says and does, it makes perfect sense. It is clear. "Between the lines" is as clear as "in the lines" if you're paying attention. There are things we have proven in this thread which people were all like "how" about, and we have looked at the film and proven it. Eg Rey's piloting ability. It's between the lines, but still clear - I thought it was clear on first viewing.

Beyond that, writing goes into everything in a film, not just dialogue. Look at how a character is behaving and what the context is like. Imagine their history. How long have they been in that context? What will they know or not know how to do from their context?

Regardless of all that, Fin's verbatim line is something like "I was stationed here back in construction" - it's really simple. I've only seen the film once, too, and I picked up on it.

VulpX said:
Just read Shattered Empire, it's great ;)
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Is it canon?

I don't know. I value the word-to-word quality of prose fiction very highly. If it lacks in that regard, I'll struggle to keep it in my hands. Only a couple of 'page turners' have really grabbed me in my life. WOOL is a good one.

FriendlyGoat said:
I'd like to remind you guys he isn't just on some random island, but the first jedi temple. While I think the regret and isolation are absolutely true, he's still clearly up to something. Looking for answers to some big question? Meditating and trying to find the wisdom he needs? I doubt he's just been pouting for years.
Click to expand...

You're not wrong, but he is also a pouty guy :)
 
Figboy79 said:
The biggest success of this movie for me, is that it has me more looking forward to seeing what happens to Rey, Finn, Kylo, and Poe more than I'm interesting in following the old cast.
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This is what made me realize I actually really liked the movie. I want to see more. I want to spend more time with these characters.
 
JetBlackPanda said:
man people are really hung up on Drivers looks after the mask is off. My cousin who is 25 just wrote me that everything was perfect except for ugly dweeb Kylo.

lol wtf.
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I like how his hair if perfect after he takes off his helmet. (I know its a movie and his hair must be perfect). Plays into his arrogance.
 
Sorcerer said:
Didn't someone who is involved or close to 8, say that 8 was going to be "weird", implying a tonal shift?

I wonder if that means the tonal shift from A New Hope to Empire, of literaly weird, like David Lynch wierd. (Exaggeration obviously).
Click to expand...

Yeah, Lawrence Kasdan called it that. Johnson will be allowed to do what he wants but it's still Star Wars, I don't expect it to be a massive shift in tone.
 
Father_Brain said:
Traces of it are in the film. Doesn't he ask "WHAT girl?" when he first hears about her?
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I think maybe Abrams and the powers that be decided late in the game that less was more. Maybe they didn't want to over-telegraph later revelations in the trilogy. That line and Rey's vision in the basement is enough to make you speculate but not be too overt about coming out and saying anything specific.
 
DrROBschiz said:
I like the idea of the Jedi and the Sith both being wrong

They always talk about balance. Maybe a true master of the force knows that you cant reject either side of it. Instead embrace the truth that all emotions have value and require balance

You see the horrible consequences of the Old Republic and the self righteous Jedi acting as heroes and exerting control and "justice" over the universe. Inadvertently creating villains themselves

The Sith arent quite as nice a parallel reflecting Nazis, war criminals and mass murderers

I dunno. There is so much to mine but I feel like I am giving way too much thought to what "Star Wars" can be
Click to expand...

That's pretty much my thoughts towards it, and where I expected Star Wars would go. They put so much emphasis on "The chosen one will bring balance to the Force", and first they thought it was Anakin, but he went to the Dark Side. Then it went to Luke, but he went to the Light Side, and from his efforts to start a new Jedi Order, he inadvertently created new Dark Side villain(s). So it wasn't Luke, either.
 
Quote said:
More context please
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When boys find out they’re chosen ones in fiction, the news often seems to confirm something for them, a lingering sense that they were not simply different, but special. But when girls are chosen, it’s a challenge to the existing order that sees us as supporting characters, as the way some man proves his goodness or badness. Grabbing hold of the destiny that someone’s offering you requires a certain arrogance that’s cultivated in boys and crushed in girls.
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fucking boom
 
thecouncil said:
I want to see Luke lightsaber fight someone. Ren, I guess.

Rey and Luke can both go against Ren together and Ren can kill Luke too.

Luke could be dead by the end of VIII but should be dead by the end of IX.
Click to expand...
What if turns out Luke was already dead to begin with, and was a force ghost at the end of TFA.

That would be one hell of a twist.
 
Kor of Memory said:
So if we play by the theory that Rey is Luke's kid. She's obviously younger than Ben by a decade at least.

This puts Ben probably around prime teenage angst years when she starts showing off her connections with the force.

If Luke had a school up for new Jedi at this time, Chances are Ben was the best pupil, by far. He likely had the spotlight on him for years. Constantly being told he's the best, he WILL be the best, etc...

Then along comes a little youngling that suddenly gets that spotlight. Starts getting special treatment from his master, etc...


Basically, an overblown example of sibling rivalry (except, you know, cousins).

Even if she isn't related, and has nothing to do with his past. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben grew up constantly being told how amazing he is going to be one day. How powerful, etc...
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Regardless of whether Rey was at the Jedi Academy, we already know this to be true due to the source of his insecurity once Rey reads his thoughts and it's revealed that he is afraid he isn't actually as powerful as Vader. He comes from a family consisting of some of the most powerful and esteemed users of the force in the universe at the time. If he's in the Academy, he is among people who can't possibly have anywhere near the same level of competency or understanding of the force (Vader's extermination of most of the Jedi in the galaxy, and not having the same powerful lineage). That alone is a lot of pressure, and as we see in the movie, is his driving motivation. Whether he was aware of Rey prior or not isn't really needed, but it adds to his resentment and insecurity if he was, for the reasons you've mentioned.
 
aerts1js said:
Ford was great in the movie. I don't understand the couple posters stating otherwise.
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Ehhh. I don't think he was great and he didn't feel much like Han, to me. His dialogue felt forced. Basically like he's there for a paycheck. I saw none of the old spark that made Han, Han.

I look at Han and the only person I saw was Harrison Ford. I didnt get that with Luke, Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.

He acted like he didn't want to be there. He acted like he HAD to be there. We've seen far far far better performances from Ford. This wasn't one of them.
 
The One Who Knocks said:
Pretty much. Regardless of whether Rey was at the Jedi Academy, we already know this to be true due to the source of his insecurity once Rey reads his thoughts and it's revealed that he is afraid he isn't actually as powerful as Vader. He comes from a family consisting of some of the most powerful and esteemed users of the force in the universe at the time. If he's in the Academy, he is among people who can't possibly have anywhere near the same level of competency or understanding of the force (Vader's extermination of most of the Jedi in the galaxy, and not having the same powerful lineage). That alone is a lot of pressure, and as we see in the movie, is his driving motivation. Whether he was aware of Rey prior or not isn't really needed, but it adds to his resentment and insecurity if he was, for the reasons you've mentioned.
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Ben needs to become a monster so that he defeat the real monster that is Rey

This is my last post about this I swear :p
 
Hollywood Duo said:
Why should he die? Just to continue copying exactly from the OT? If they were smart he should just train Rey and let the new cast lead the next 2 movies.
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Sephzilla said:
Luke shouldn't die at all, in my opinion.
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He should die so I can see his ghost, honestly.

Also, it's probably better that he doesn't just die off-screen between movies and nobody ever hears from him again.

"Luke died on the way back to his home planet. He didn't remember how to become one with the force either."
 
DrROBschiz said:
Rey was responsible for killing everyone

Ben loses it(cause the other people were his besties), Luke protects her anyways

Oh man... it writes itself

Flashback dashes any hopes of this being the case. Your move JJ. Write a better scenario than me

#teamREYistheVillain
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So she killed them all when she was like 7 years old? Doesn't the flashback to her "family" leaving her on Jakku kind on refute this theory?
 
AbsintheGames said:
Ehhh. I don't think he was great and he didn't feel much like Han, to me. His dialogue felt forced. Basically like he's there for a paycheck. I saw none of the old spark that made Han, Han.

I look at Han and the only person I saw was Harrison Ford. I didnt get that with Luke, Rey, Finn, Poe, etc.

He acted like he didn't want to be there. He acted like he HAD to be there. We've seen far far far better performances from Ford. This wasn't one of them.
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I thought this was his best performance in years.
 
Henkka said:
Cooperation and solidarity are feminine values, wut? Not like, universal values of people aren't dicks? I suppose the rest of the article is alright. What are you winning, though?
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I told everyone on day one that making Rey the Luke Skywalker in this trilogy would be of massive cultural significance to girls and women globally and was laughed out of the thread for being hyperbolic.

Turns out I won and they lost.
 
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