[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Couldn't one argue that this was the physical manifestation of the arrogance and complacency of the Jedi Order in the PT ?

No, because they never say or reference that at all.

Lightsaber fights should be like the ones in TFA. It's about Kylo Ren trying desperately to become a sith, and Rey accepting her force sensitivity after rejecting it earlier.
 
I love the OST for this movie, but I do wish it had a track on the caliber of "Anakin vs Obi Wan" from the ROTS soundtrack....man, that one really gets me pumped for some reason.
 
Perhaps his children were not strong in the force. Just because a bloodline has force sensitive members does not necessarily mean everyone of that house is strong in the force. I don't think.

Essentially, maybe it skipped a generation.

I think that's actually how it works. The force is biological and hereditary. Midichlorians, sorry. It's why Leia is seemingly a sure thing. Her dad was Anakin Skywalker.
 
The beats are similar but the way they play out is entirely different. Other than maybe the aerial assault and destruction of Starkiller, I don't really think this movie feels like ANH at all.
I have to do this again. Sigh.

Luke:
Lives on a desert planet.
Has no parents.
A droid just happens to fall in his lap.
That droid has... ... ... secrets!
Luke finds an old dude that takes him under his wing.
A few hours later the old dude is killed by the bad guy with a lightsaber.
Luke flies off to find an old Jedi on a remote planet.

Rey:
Read: Luke

That's more than just "beats". That's the premise that drives the character's ACTIONS throughout the film. Literally if that droid didn't land in either of their laps... Where would they be? Where would either be without the old mentor? Where would they be without witnessing their mentor killed? Where would they be if they didn't know about the old Jedi Master?

Both Luke and Rey being pilots - that's a "beat". The 1:1 mirroring of their stories - a lot more than a " beat".

That's just ONE character.
 
No, because they never say or reference that at all.

Lightsaber fights should be like the ones in TFA. It's about Kylo Ren trying desperately to become a sith, and Rey accepting her force sensitivity after rejecting it earlier.

You don't get to decide how lightsabers duels "should" be.
 
If obi-wan had children then the lines:

"That boy is our last hope"

"No there is another."

"The other Master Yoda spoke of is your twin sister."


Are totally worthless. If Obi-wan had children, then why the fuck wouldn't he consider them an option to take down the empire back before he died.

Even as a kid, I understood that meant that Vader can only really be defeated by his children. And I don't mean physically more powerful but in a emotional sense.
 
Why do some people say Han "sacrificed himself"?

Cause he didn't. He wasn't protecting anybody or anything there. He didn't even have to show himself to Kylo.
He only did it because he is his son and he wanted to bring him back.

He willingly put himself in harm's way to show his son he was willing to do anything to get him back, knowing it was incredibly likely that his son might disappoint him and that he might be killed.

That's a tremendous, Jesus-level sacrifice.

They're always going to be doing that. Destroying a planet is the ultimate demonstration of power in the galaxy.

Yeah, I think people forget that the Death Star is already "present" in 4/6 of the previous films.
 
This was how I knew he wasn't going to survive the movie.

He was so damned overjoyed to do the press junkets and appearances, because he knew he was going to be freaking done with the franchise lol.

Haha true. People should have realised when he said he was very happy with the script from the first reveal. That there would be only one reason. That he finally gets his wish of Han dying.
 
Absolutely. The emotion in that scene is the pinnacle of the movies for me

Seeing it as a kid was one thing. The hero beating the villian because of the love he has for his sister. It's inspiring.

Except for when you're old enough to understand that this is Luke very nearly losing, and giving Palpatine exactly what he wants. That emotion you're seeing is anger and hate.

Not saying you shouldn't see it that way...you should. The whole trilogy built up to Luke beating Vader. It's just that it's very, very close.
 
honestly Rey being Luke's daughter is problematic for a few reasons:

1) you have to explain the Mother (where she came from, who she is, etc)
2) you have to explain why Luke of all people would abandon her (he wouldn't do this since it happened to him)
3) you have to explain why Luke would abandon the whole Jedi celibacy thing

I kind of like her just being a gifted random person that maybe has been at trained at the Jedi temple with Luke and was the sole survivor.
 
You don't get to decide how lightsabers duels "should" be.

Since it's a matter of opinion, he actually does. It's not like what a random viewer thinks has an influence on the actual films. Anyway, I prefer the OT style of slower, personal battles vs. the prequel craziness and TFA definitely tended towards the former.
 
Sure.
Empire attacks ship/settlement looking for plans/map
Plans/map are hidden on droid
Droid escapes
Droid is hunted
Droid is captured and rescued by a hopeless teenager and main character on a desert planet
Main character and supporting characters arrive in a cantina filled with creatures from all walks of the galaxy
Empire has a giant Death Star once again and showcases its power. As they are charging up/ getting in position to deliver the final blow to the good guys, the good guys have precious minutes to attack and destroy Death Star.
Trench run to destroy Death Star/trench run to destroy star killer
Vader kills obi wan in front of main character/ kylo ren kills Han Solo in front of main character.

And just for some forward leaning perspective, main character goes to train with Jedi master in self imposed exile.

And don't forget that they both escaped from the desert planet with the droid on the Millenium Falcon, of all vehicles.
 
That wouldn't explain Darth Maul or Palpatine though.

IDK, from a pure visual standpoint the prequel fights are some good eye candy but they're the equivalent of a really good looking steak that you bite into and realize it's massively undercooked.

I really enjoyed the fact that Rey figured out really quick that stabbing Ren would make way more sense.
 
Since it's a matter of opinion, he actually does. It's not like what a random viewer thinks has an influence on the actual films. Anyway, I prefer the OT style of slower, personal battles vs. the prequel craziness and TFA definitely tended towards the former.

Thank goodness!
 
If obi-wan had children then the lines:

"That boy is our last hope"

"No there is another."

"The other Master Yoda spoke of is your twin sister."


Are totally worthless. If Obi-wan had children, then why the fuck wouldn't he consider them an option to take down the empire back before he died.
Because of the chosen one prophecy which he always believe is a skywalker. Or maybe he didnt know he had a child.
 
I saw the movie over the weekend and enjoyed it thoroughly. I felt that a lot of the comments about it being a remake of A New Hope were unwarranted, though. Sure, there some call back to the film, but they always seemed to take it into a different place that made it stand out from the older movies.

The introduction was one of the best in the series, if I'm being honest. I like that this iteration of the Empire is seemingly ruthless. This notion is only further solidified as we get to know Kylo Ren and how he's so very unhinged. He was a very different sort of villain, much better than we've had in the past I'd say. While he was infatuated with Darth Vader, he certainly didn't live his life in his shadow. Vader, for the most part, was pretty calm. Kylo, on the other hand, seemed to be arrogant, but also insecure about his powers and place int he universe. He was overly aggressive, and ultimately that was his downfall. I'm curious to see how his character grows in the next film, as I think he's going to be even more of a loose trigger.

On the subject of Finn, who was my favorite character in the movie. I'm starting to think he may also have the Force, based on his actions. He's definitely no Luke or Anakin, but he showed great resolve when he overcame the brainwashing of The First Order and saved Poe from interrogation. These aren't people that volunteered to be infantrymen for the Empire, they were brainwashed and forced to do it. The fact that he overcame that treatment and held on to his true self, a self he never knew, speaks volumes to me. The Jedi were quite a large group of people in old days, so it's not unfair to say that the lineage could have resurfaced in their current times.

The part that I took issue with was Poe Dameron. He was a great character, but if they would have just shown the scene where he escaped the Tie Fighter, then it wouldn't have been as jarring to see him later on in the film. It could have been a shot where he was ejected, and landed, passed out, face first in the sand. The audience would have believed him to be dead, and his subsequent appearance would've been more meaningful.

Also, I do see Rey being the daughter of Luke. What we know about her doesn't match up, at least not in my eyes.
 
It still significantly weakens the lines. Even if his children were not very force sensitive, he and Yoda would both know there would be a chance at future children having stronger force abilities.

Yeah, but that doesn't matter at all when the Empire and the Sith are crushing the Rebel Alliance, the only hope for this galaxy's future, right now. Like, I get what you are saying, but Obi-Wan and Yoda did not exactly have the luxury of time. If Luke and the Rebels had been destroyed, it wouldn't matter if this potential Rey Kenobi was born because she'd either be exterminated at birth or raised as a Sith. Probably exterminated.
 
You know–seriously speaking–it did always feel like there was crazy sexual tension between Qui-Gon and Shmi Skywalker... Maybe Anakin's father was Qui-Gon.

Qui-Gon: Who was his father?

Shmi: Wait, seriously? We just-*sees Qui-Gon death stare* uhh, there was no father, I carried him, I gave birth to him, yeah...

Qui-Gon: Hmm. Curious.
 
You know–seriously speaking–it did always feel like there was crazy sexual tension between Qui-Gon and Shmi Skywalker... Maybe Anakin's father was Qui-Gon.

One of these days they gonna Canon Darth Plagueis as Anakin's father...Darth Plagueis had the ability to manipulate midi-chlorians to create like, and Shmi told Qui-Gon Anakin just happen..there was no father..
 
honestly Rey being Luke's daughter is problematic for a few reasons:

1) you have to explain the Mother (where she came from, who she is, etc)
2) you have to explain why Luke of all people would abandon her (he wouldn't do this since it happened to him)
3) you have to explain why Luke would abandon the whole Jedi celibacy thing

I kind of like her just being a gifted random person that maybe has been at trained at the Jedi temple with Luke and was the sole survivor.

Would Luke even know about that?
 
honestly Rey being Luke's daughter is problematic for a few reasons:

1) you have to explain the Mother (where she came from, who she is, etc)

Who's to say she won't be an actual character that we encounter later?

If she's not - if she's dead, for example - then why would her identity matter to the audience any more than the identity of Luke/Leia's mother did in the OT?

2) you have to explain why Luke of all people would abandon her (he wouldn't do this since it happened to him)

It happening to him (and Leia) and him (and Leia) being literally the only Jedi to make it out of all seven films okay is probably the best reason for him to do it to her.

3) you have to explain why Luke would abandon the whole Jedi celibacy thing

Yoda told him "the Force is strong in your family; pass on what you have learned" in Ep VI.

Not to mention that the rule isn't celibacy per se but "no attachment, let go of those you fear to lose."

I don't even get how that was supposed to make sense anyways, there's a shitload of force sensitives in the Galaxy from what I saw in the prequels. Why didn't Obi-Wan go look for them instead of just hanging his hat entirely on "hopefully Luke isn't a douche."

The PT also added the idea that Anakin is unnaturally powerful into the mix. Surely we'd expect that his offspring would be the only real matches for his power, even if there were other Force-sensitives?
 
I've been pretty positive about this movie, but I still have lots of complaints.

  • Outside the final lightsaber scene, none of the action scenes got my blood pumping. They feel listless. The dogfights especially turned out to be a major disappointment; while the visuals are spectacular, the sound and editing makes them feel less impressive. The entire movie feels really slow because these action scenes drag on and don't feel exciting.
  • Snoke looks awful. I don't understand why he had to be CGI, he's just a big bald guy with a scar. He looks like something from the Hobbit movies.
  • Maz Kanata vanishes off the face of the Earth after giving Finn the lightsaber. For such an important character, they really needed to show what the hell happened to her. Does she get killed by the First Order? Does the Resistance save her? Does she escape through her own means?
  • Much more minor character, but what happened to General Hux? He just gives his Nazi speech and then vanishes. Could have at least shown him when Starkiller Base was blowing up.
 
Since it's a matter of opinion, he actually does. It's not like what a random viewer thinks has an influence on the actual films. Anyway, I prefer the OT style of slower, personal battles vs. the prequel craziness and TFA definitely tended towards the former.

If anything, it was a blend. That lightsaber battle at the end of 7 was nowhere near as dreadful as the Obi Wan / Vader fight and Ben was flipping that lightsaber all over the place.

They are canon. They did happen. Doesn't change anything though, they're still crap, and they wisely pretended that they more or less don't exist for TFA.

Are you just ignoring the prequel references in 7 or what?
 
If obi-wan had children then the lines:

"That boy is our last hope"

"No there is another."

"The other Master Yoda spoke of is your twin sister."


Are totally worthless. If Obi-wan had children, then why the fuck wouldn't he consider them an option to take down the empire back before he died.

I don't even get how that was supposed to make sense anyways, there's a shitload of force sensitives in the Galaxy from what I saw in the prequels. Why didn't Obi-Wan go look for them instead of just hanging his hat entirely on "hopefully Luke isn't a douche."
 
Yeah, they've been based in the unknown regions. I don't really know what's up with Coruscant.

Actually, post TFA, the whole "government" situation is really up in the air, huh. The New Republic seems to be completely gone now, and the New Order wasn't the Empire to begin with, but now they're really fucked, since all their resources had to have gone into Starkiller.
 
If anything, it was a blend. That lightsaber battle at the end of 7 was nowhere near as dreadful as the Obi Wan / Vader fight and Ben was flipping that lightsaber all over the place.

That's how I felt it, and I loved the lightsaber duel in Episode VII. It was not as slow as the ones on the OT, and not as fancy as the ones in the PT. It was a nice middle ground.

I love all 3 styles, however.
 
got it
lotlgb9.gif
No lie when watching the film I imagined him turning around and being The Joker.
 
Thanks for the comparison folks - it makes a lot more sense seeing it side by side. That said, I still love it and have no complaints. Boiling the plot points down like that can trivialize the package, and I do feel that the presentation and new beats of TFA gave it a fresh enough feeling to make it it's own thing.
 
They are canon. They did happen. Doesn't change anything though, they're still crap, and they wisely pretended that they more or less don't exist for TFA.

TFA is set fifty years after the prequel era anyway. It doesn't make sense for them to reference it in any substantial way. I did like the clone army reference though.
 
Either Williams or the sound director really just flatlined on this film. The X-Wing and Rey's theme are like the only two memorable tracks in the entire OST. He needs to step his game up for VIII.
 
If anything, it was a blend. That lightsaber battle at the end of 7 was nowhere near as dreadful as the Obi Wan / Vader fight and Ben was flipping that lightsaber all over the place.



Are you just ignoring the prequel references in 7 or what?

Lol no. It just took after the ROTJ style.
 
Wow, reading through this thread, it seems that a lot of you people are choosing to ignore the fact that there are another two films coming out.
 
You don't get to decide how lightsabers duels "should" be.

No, I am not a movie exec, you're correct.

But if you want to make good Star Wars movies, you have to have some emotional weight behind the action scenes, otherwise it's Attack of the Clones.
 
Luke being a 60-year-old virgin is lame. More than knowing Rey is his daughter, I just want to make sure he was getting some.

Either Williams or the sound director really just flatlined on this film. The X-Wing and Rey's theme are like the only two memorable tracks in the entire OST. He needs to step his game up for VIII.
I'd throw the Jedi Steps theme in there as well.
 
honestly Rey being Luke's daughter is problematic for a few reasons:

1) you have to explain the Mother (where she came from, who she is, etc)
2) you have to explain why Luke of all people would abandon her (he wouldn't do this since it happened to him)
3) you have to explain why Luke would abandon the whole Jedi celibacy thing

I kind of like her just being a gifted random person that maybe has been at trained at the Jedi temple with Luke and was the sole survivor.

1) You really don't.
2) Luke was being hunted.
3) To repopulate the ranks, its allowed.

I'd rather her be a complete random but her story mimics Luke's in almost every way, even down to what she has seen of the force being in use. In ANH - Luke witnessed Obi-Wan use a mind trick to get past Stormtroopers on Tatooine. Rey had her mind explored by Kylo and then used the same technique on a Stormtrooper. Obi-Wan taught Luke some saber-deflection using the force on the Falcon. Rey witnessed Kylo use this when encountering her before he captures her. That's the extent of the "force" both had experienced in ANH and TFA. Details. Mirrors, etc. She's setup to be Luke's kid 100%. There's just too much for it to be a red herring. You don't throw that much at a character to pull one over. Its deliberate.
 
Just saw it (half full theatre for a 9:30 start on a Monday?). Really liked it, much more than the prequels. Managed to avoid spoilers too. Had to laugh at Phasma and 3PO though. Is she confirmed to be a recurring character because she did nothing in this one and the her black series toy kept selling out in seconds so I thought she had a bigger role. And why did 3PO have the red arm? Oh well, he had his regular one back at the end anyway.

The only part I didn't like was how Rey knew mind tricks to use on the stormtrooper even though she didn't even know what the force was.

Some parts were hilarious too and I laughed more than some recent comedies I've seen.
 
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