Though everyone disliked this sort of thing in the prequels, political ramifications should be touched upon in the next film, albeit briefly.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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Though everyone disliked this sort of thing in the prequels, political ramifications should be touched upon in the next film, albeit briefly.
That's a given, but they'd come up with a narrative reason, not just have Han and Leia act like nothing's up.
There's really no room for her to be a Solo and thinking about it now, there's only a very slim chance she's a Skywalker, if any chance at all. Leia would know her niece. She'd feel it in the force. She'd feel her brother.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Just got out of seeing it with my family. The question that we kept speculating on was the obvious one. Who is Rey and what is her lineage? Our theories ranged from the "So obvious that it can't possibly be right" that she's a Skywalker, to the "Less obvious but workable" that she's a Kenobi or a Jinn, to the "So completely batshit insane that it can't possibly be anything other than 100% correct."
Namely, that Rey is a clone of Shmi Skywalker made by the last remnants of the Sith. In a desperate attempt to revive Vader, they've cloned his mother, the person who created him, and placed her in the exact same situation (sold in to slavery and abandoned alone on a desert planet) in hopes that she will magically become pregnant by the Force again and they won't fuck up this time. When it was mentioned that she dreamed of the ocean and an island, that was referring to the cloner facility on Kamino.
So, you know, the basic stuff.
Namely, that Rey is a clone of Shmi Skywalker made by the last remnants of the Sith. In a desperate attempt to revive Vader, they've cloned his mother, the person who created him, and placed her in the exact same situation (sold in to slavery and abandoned alone on a desert planet) in hopes that she will magically become pregnant by the Force again and they won't fuck up this time. When it was mentioned that she dreamed of the ocean and an island, that was referring to the cloner facility on Kamino.
So, you know, the basic stuff.
What if we got another Rey flashback sequence featuring MacGregor? And Rey's a granddaughter instead?
Luke is definitely the Father, I imagine the 'I am your Father' scene has been on a whiteboard somewhere since day 1.
I don't think it will be some kind of secret child thing either, people assume Luke knows all the rules the council had for Jedi and that he would try to follow them, but I think all that knowledge died with Yoda (which would be great, because the Jedi were way more awesome when we thought they were all like Obi Wan). I think that will be the crux of his story in VIII, he started a Jedi temple, but had no idea how to train a jedi or protect them from the dark side, he's run away under the pretense of working out where he went wrong, but in reality he was just running away from his mistakes.
I don't think it will be some kind of secret child thing either, people assume Luke knows all the rules the council had for Jedi and that he would try to follow them, but I think all that knowledge died with Yoda (which would be great, because the Jedi were way more awesome when we thought they were all like Obi Wan). I think that will be the crux of his story in VIII, he started a Jedi temple, but had no idea how to train a jedi or protect them from the dark side, he's run away under the pretense of working out where he went wrong, but in reality he was just running away from his mistakes.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Noooooo!
This is what's known as a "straw man".
Are we? If Han was a piece of shit to Kylo, drove him into his anger and failed to guide him or help him, then maybe he deserved to get got. Is Kylo bitter that Han sent him away? Whether Kylo is pursuing some kind of righteous retribution or if he killed Han out of some selfish pursuit of power definitely changes what that scene means. I think the article's main thrust is not that the movie is "bad" but more that it doesn't really signify anything much at all, especially in what it frames as its big moments.
You and the article agree: this leaves us in a situation where we have a lot of speculation we have to do. You like that -- and to some extent so do I -- but the article isn't impressed with that as a mission.
Taking a very cynical view, we might assume the film sketched things so loosely specifically because it wants to sell comics and books to dissatisfied fans, it wants to stoke fanfic and speculation and discussion, because that'll fuel hype and sales.
Obliterator
Member
I guess they could do the Kenobi thing but it wouldn't be too big of a reveal as there are no living Kenobi's to link her to. I mean it would be cool and all but not as big an impact as if she was a Skywalker
That is what I said, but at the same time there is too much evidence of her being related to luke.
Rey was born after the battle of endor though.
it would be a bigger ass pull to make her kenobi's granddaughter than it would for her to be luke's daughter.
I will be happy as long as she is not a solo.
This is cute but given the outright hostility this movie showed the prequels that seems like a long way to walk from here to there.
Though, I suppose this movie did mine everything possible out of the original trilogy. It'd be crazy if episode VIII was a tribute / rehash to PT the way this one was to OT.
bananafactory
Banned
The more I think about it, the more I realize the Rey and Finn/Kylo duel couldn't have really gone down any other way.
First of all - you're getting the first Star Wars movie in 10 years. You don't have the luxury of A New Hope where everything is new and exciting. People would be very upset if there were no real lightsaber duels.
OK.
So then you need someone to fight Kylo Ren. Luke? There's several problems with that - one is that he risks upstaging the new generation which this is supposed to be handing the series off to. The other is that in a movie people already claim flies too close to the OT, you're going to AGAIN have an old veteran jedi master duel the big bad guy while the newbies look on?
OK, so it has to be Rey or Finn fighting him. There's simply not enough time in the movie (which is already rushed) to give them any further training or experience with the Force than they already get.
Which brings us to the fight - the problem with Rey and Finn getting whooped is that again it's simply too similar to ESB - our young upstart Jedi went into combat unprepared and got schooled, so they must go back and train and mature for the future rematch.
The fact that she jobbed Kylo Ren at his own game is a very nice twist on the whole thing, and the only really satisfying way I can see it playing out.
First of all - you're getting the first Star Wars movie in 10 years. You don't have the luxury of A New Hope where everything is new and exciting. People would be very upset if there were no real lightsaber duels.
OK.
So then you need someone to fight Kylo Ren. Luke? There's several problems with that - one is that he risks upstaging the new generation which this is supposed to be handing the series off to. The other is that in a movie people already claim flies too close to the OT, you're going to AGAIN have an old veteran jedi master duel the big bad guy while the newbies look on?
OK, so it has to be Rey or Finn fighting him. There's simply not enough time in the movie (which is already rushed) to give them any further training or experience with the Force than they already get.
Which brings us to the fight - the problem with Rey and Finn getting whooped is that again it's simply too similar to ESB - our young upstart Jedi went into combat unprepared and got schooled, so they must go back and train and mature for the future rematch.
The fact that she jobbed Kylo Ren at his own game is a very nice twist on the whole thing, and the only really satisfying way I can see it playing out.
That may explain why they let her go to Luke's location. He can tell her himself. I don't think Leia is in any place to tell her about her father or mother. Let her face her father and let him tell her everything.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I might write more about this but it's really strange that Finn goes on to kill stormtroopers throughout the movie with his reasons for defecting.
I think you guys are nuts but I would love to see them explain it.
I think you guys are nuts but I would love to see them explain it.
Atraveller
Banned
Oh it's totally going to happen, no way the writers would waste this chemistry.
This makes the most sense.
Also, something something about poetry.
makes sense, as to why she went to luke instead of leia and the crew.
Obliterator
Member
I want to see Luke Skywalker duel someone and look badass as fuck while doing it
Oh? I think that'd be rather impactful. Luke and co. obviously have a huge respect for Obi-Wan, but if that's Rey's grandfather, that makes her the descendant of not only a Jefi Master, but probably the most effective military leader to operate during the Clone Wars.
Kenobi is a legend. That's a hell of a lineage.
What is this evidence really though? The lightsaber?
bananafactory
Banned
Luke discovers the offspring of Ben Kenobi (shouldn't be hard to set up - either he found her through the Force or through practical means)
When Kylo turns and kills all Jedi but Luke, he realizes there's a chance Kylo will go after Rey once he finds out who she is - so Luke works alone (or with others) to hide her from her heritage.
I don't think it would be that difficult to set up believably.
This is gonna sound cynical as hell, but I think Finn may have started out as just being a coward plain and simple.
Don't think he really was concerned for the downed Stormtrooper - he was just going "fuuuuuck"
Then he finds something to actually nut-up and fight for through Rey and BB8.
good at flying...yeah I got nothing lol.
I remember seeing it. Seriously one of the most eye opening post from last thread. I had come to the Kenobi conclusion more from deduction. Because her being Luke or Leia's daughter just doesn't make sense to me. She either is Kenobi's grand daughter, or someone completely new.
I don't even think she was trained by Luke when she was young, or if she wasn't she really isn't remembering much. Maybe Luke found out Kenobi had a daughter and took her in, but then promptly had to send her away. But I feel they are meeting for the first time at the end of TFA.
Obliterator
Member
I mean we all agree that Rey was training to be a Jedi with Luke already before right? Because that seems pretty implied from her visions. She was there during the slaughter
ryutaro's mama
Member
Any theory involving Rey being a clone gets thrown right out the window for me.
Clone shit ain't happening again.
Clone shit ain't happening again.
bananafactory
Banned
Is there anything to indicate that vision of the Knights was them slaughtering Luke's academy? I thought it was confirmed somewhere that Kylo Ren joined the Knights after that
yeah, and luke/kylo is the reason she had to go into hiding.
First I've heard of this theory. It must already be out the window.
He doesn't have a problem with violence. He has a problem with the senseless murder of innocents and mass executions.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Oh, yeah. I agree. I was just being facetious.
I mean, the clone army throwaway line could mean something
or nothing as expected
Obliterator
Member
There were other hints she saw things with the skaughter though, including her having memories of Luke and R2D2
imo he joined the knights and led them to the jedi temple but luke escaped. They have been searching for luke ever since.
Admiral Woofington
Member
but it's been 30-ish years since the original trilogy.
This basically makes sense but also is nonsense. Your assumptions track if they got to the "fight" part of the script, looked at what they had, and found themselves in a bind. If working up to the fight was a project that needed to happen, go back and add in a character for Kylo to fight. Hobbling him feels like a contrivance because it probably was.
Also there's no way they thought of something and then said "no we can't do that it's too similar to what came before" lol. This movie is not afraid of being similar to the OT, it's afraid of being different than the OT.
Lol seriously. I think I said this in the first spoiler thread but it's the dark secret tragedy of this thing. He knows it's possible for Stormtroopers to break condition AND he's knows that they're conditioned probably behind free will anyway. Sometimes you gotta kill the contractors on the Death Star out of expediency but if you grew up alongside them maybe you wanna show at least a little reticence about the whole thing. Finn's a sociopath kintraitor just as much as (even more than) Kylo.
I don't know. I'm sure the Knights of Ren get around. Could very easily be her background, but not the Jedi academy.
Atraveller
Banned
There were bodies all around the knights, also did he join or found the Knights?
yeah she saw luke giving r2-d2 commands, and her being 5 also impacts her memories.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I guess. It just feels kinda out of character to me. But like I said I'm still thinking it over.
We're not entirely sure if we're dealing with Sith. It looks more like a different faction of Force-users.
Some of them look like they're wearing modified Mandalorian armor.
According to TFA Visual Dictionary, they are not Sith, but an altogether new type of Dark Side user, that can also tap in to elements of the Light side too.
Those weren't memories. At least one of the visions happens in the future.
Totally unclear. In some interview JJ made it sound like "join" but in interviews he also made it sound like Phasma was going to be a character in this movie so who knows.
How do we know this?
I'm guessing it's a phenomenon within the Force itself (possibly having occurred in the distant past?) where it manifests itself in a bunch of different individuals at around the same time after having been dormant for a long time.
The Jedi have long been wiped out, and the Sith died with Vader and Palpatine (as far as we know). Luke was the only one still alive (again, that we know of) that had that connection with the Force, and tried to get something going again before it all got wiped out. Maybe the Force got tired of sleeping.
CrowdChant
Member
You saw Kylo Ren in the snow, before she had her duel with him.
To be honest though. It seems they just don't fully understand what it takes to walk the path of the dark side. Where Kylo Ren is trying to resurrect the true path of the dark side as learned by the Sith.
It's the same reason why Luke struggled to get his students to fully walk the path of the light. So much knowledge has been lost. Luke had Obi-wan and Yoda to guide him, plus a strong connection with their force ghosts.
But this new generation is trapped in a turbulent undirected understanding of the force. At least this seems to be the case for the Knights of Ren. Are they the only surviving students of Luke's? I guess we only know that Kylo has survived at this point.
So revanites?
Because it's Kylo in the snow in the same woods Rey fights him in later. I guess it *could* be a memory and not a premonition? But even. Who's memories are they? Memories of Rey? Luke? The Light Saber itself?
The vision sucked. All it does is say "mystery" out loud and give an excuse to include the Knights of Ren in a trailer.
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