[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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What I'm hoping for most regarding Rey is that if she does turn out to be a Skywalker, Johnson has the good sense to not treat it like a huge "I am your father" reveal. He should follow Abrams' example with Ren and just address it and move on.

At this point so many people are anticipating it that if he treated it like a big reveal it would be a patronizing waste of time. Definitely have Rey be shocked, just don't pretend like we're shocked.

Assuming the theories are right of course.

I wonder if they'll edit the film for the Blu-ray release. I've love for them to rework that stupid helicopter shot from the end. Have the final shot being Luke's face.

While the shot doesnt bother me as much as it does many here, I do agree that there are better choices. A simple long shot worm's eye looking up at the two figures from a side view, silhouetted by the grey sky, would have been nice.

If I were you I wouldnt hold my breath, though.
 
Possibly, but here's my guess for,

Ep8 big ending fight:
Finn vs Knights of Ren
Poe/Resistance vs FO aerial battle of some sort

Ep9 big ending fights:
Trained Rey vs SSJ Ren
Superman Luke Skywalker vs Darth Plagueis

Luke Skywalker isn't going to just keel over suddenly or die in his sleep. He's going to take on the big bad guy that no one else in the universe is prepared for.
Snoke isn't Plagueis.
 
Saw the movie last night in Imax 3D and felt it was...ummm good, I suppose.

The charisma driving the new talent was wonderful to watch. The look of the movie was mostly breathtaking, particularly applying artistry behind the technology and design that complemented the original trilogy and fit comfortably into the universe. It was a solid thrill-ride that kept focus and was engaging. As discussed heavily earlier in this thread, the lightsaber duels were far more convincing with each swing compared to the vapid(but entrancing) ballet dances of the prequels.

That said, character motivations, narrative stakes, and general plot arcs were extremely clunky. Scene-for-scene cribbed from the original trilogy practically(particularly New Hope). I suppose I expected a different direction to be taken rather than this lame-duck search for a Mcguffin 'map piece' that spells out Luke's location, which in itself didn't seem to be a very convincing justification for anything that occurs in this film.

The Empire is back(with new hats!), the Rebel Alliance is back(now called the "Resistance"...ok), and I rolled my eyes when the new 'Death Star' was trotted out on screen(tossed-in so brazenly it didn't even have a name!). Throughout the film it became increasingly difficult to feign ignorance from the predictability of it all, which is the greatest shame. My mind couldn't help but wander during the trench run, setting the charges for the shield reactor, and death star escape. It was all happening, but my engagement dried out.

Flashy with fun moments interspersed, but kind of unfulfilling. I had hoped for a new chapter with original concepts and motivations following the events of RotJ, and maybe the sequels will eventually deliver, but this film was little more than a nice intro to the new blood and little else.
 
You're assuming I missed any of this, which I didn't.

For the first point, he helps Poe escape because he's his only option to escape the First Order, to that point we're on the same page, but then immediately afterward him being so happy about shooting Stormtroopers with him and it being the main thing that makes Poe and him "best buds" all of a sudden is incredibly thin.

Watch again. He doesn't cheer when he shoots the storm troopers, he cheers when he shoots the turrets on the outside of the ship, because they are able to get away easier.

What makes them best buds is they are both saving each others lives. And just the few lines they have, (it's the right thing to do...You need a pilot.. I'm talking to my self" Both of their personalities shine thru in the short time they are together and they have an instant bro-connection. As cheesy as it sounds.

Sometimes you just instantly click with someone.
For the second point, he instantly lights up when Luke is mentioned and he wants to try to help the droid get to the Resistance, once it's clear that the droid'll make it there and that Luke will be found, he wants out. He still wants to help the resistance, but he doesn't think they'll succeed. He obviously thinks the resistance are the good guys, he's just a coward about it.
Poe tells Fin about Luke Skywalker in the escape from the Star Destroyer, Fin doesn't care, because it's leading him toward Jakku instead of out of the system. On Jakku after Fin tells Rey he is part of the Resistance, he tells her that BB-8 has a map to Luke Skywalker. She instantly lights up. After seeing that he continues the lie and wants to impress her by getting to the resistance. But that is all before Han shows up. Once Han shows up, Fin is along for the ride UNTIL Maz tells Han to stop running away. This is when Fin rejects the idea, because up until this point he wanted to drop off the droid and run. Not drop off the droid and stay and fight.

Over Jakku, he totally takes joy in blowing up other stormtroopers and bonds with Poe over it. On the planet he totally takes joy in watching stormtroopers getting bombarded by Poe(which can't even be justified by "Oh he likes his freedom"). Hell, he even cheers after a pass kills a bunch of stormtroopers and tie fighters. He acts like a Resistance fanboy.

After the destruction of the Republic by Starkiller Base, Fin realizes he has nowhere to run. Which is why he comes back to tell the about them about the completed weapon. That's when all hell breaks loose and they get captured. Fin knows all it takes is a single command and all of them are dead like in the beginning with the village. All of the stormtroopers rounded up all the villagers and then they slaughtered them. He knows how dangerous and powerful the First Order is. Having his life saved by the resistance and seeing the skills of one fighter pilot gives him hope, they might be able to win this thing.
 
What I'm hoping for most regarding Rey is that if she does turn out to be a Skywalker, Johnson has the good sense to not treat it like a huge "I am your father" reveal. He should follow Abrams' example with Ren and just address it and move on.

At this point so many people are anticipating it that if he treated it like a big reveal it would be a patronizing waste of time. Definitely have Rey be shocked, just don't pretend like we're shocked.

Assuming the theories are right of course.

why would Luke dump her in one of the most uninhabitable planets in the care of an untrustworthy junker?
 
You're assuming I missed any of this, which I didn't.

For the first point, he helps Poe escape because he's his only option to escape the First Order, to that point we're on the same page, but then immediately afterward him being so happy about shooting Stormtroopers with him and it being the main thing that makes Poe and him "best buds" all of a sudden is incredibly thin.

For the second point, he instantly lights up when Luke is mentioned and he wants to try to help the droid get to the Resistance, once it's clear that the droid'll make it there and that Luke will be found, he wants out. He still wants to help the resistance, but he doesn't think they'll succeed. He obviously thinks the resistance are the good guys, he's just a coward about it.

Over Jakku, he totally takes joy in blowing up other stormtroopers and bonds with Poe over it. On the planet he totally takes joy in watching stormtroopers getting bombarded by Poe(which can't even be justified by "Oh he likes his freedom"). Hell, he even cheers after a pass kills a bunch of stormtroopers and tie fighters. He acts like a Resistance fanboy.

I'm assuming you missed it because the only information you need to answer every single question you asked is that he wants to escape the resistance, and if you know the answer I'm not sure why you're confused about any of this.

For the first, yes, he is happy because he is escaping the First Order. He is bonding with Poe because they are escaping the First Order. He is happy because he got to do something through his own free will, and do something he has never done before, and he is escaping the first order.

The second point, What? No, he doesn't. When Poe mentions this to him his immediate reaction is "Oh, great" because it means they are going to a droid which the First Order will be after, meaning he is further away from escaping the first order. The entire reason they are shot down is because he doesn't want to go back to Jakku for the droid. Rey wants to bring the droid to the Resistence, not Finn. Finn wants to escape the First Order but also wants to escape with Rey. The approximate sequence of events of the film involving Finn are:

The Shuttle prior to landing on Jakku > Jakku > First Order Star Destroyer Escape with Poe > Jakku where he wanders into Rey > On board the Milenium Falcon where he expresses they have to escape Jakku when Rey wishes to return to it > Solo and Han's Freighter > Maz's Castle > The Resistance Base > Starkiller Base > The Resistance Base.

Until the Resistance Base they are engaged in continuous action, and until the castle at Maz he has told Rey that he is a member of the resistance and is engaging in the lie, while Rey is the one telling him that they have to return the droid, to impress her. Obviously he would be shocked at it finding Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, because they're living legends in the galaxy; he still states his motivating desire is to escape. When Rey's face lights up, and he sees the way she looks at him, he continues to lie about his role in the Resistance, for Rey (to impress her). not because he cares. As soon as he's confronted with actually get involved with the Resistance and the fight by Maz, he tries to leave and wants Rey to come too, and is interrupted by the First Order's descent.

The third point, because the pilot's skills are impressive and he has just been rescued from the First Order right as he was about to be back to the First Order? Of course he prefers the Resistance than the First Order, his motivating desire is to escape the First Order. He doesn't want to join the fight with the Resistance, he wants to escape the First Order. The lives of other Stormtroopers or the fate of the war don't matter to him, he cares about escaping the First Order.

It's at a stage when I don't really understand what you expect the answers to any of those questions are, because there are clear answers given or there is no reason why it would be brought into question. He wasn't leaving the First Order because he views the Stormtroopers' existence as tragic, or because he is totally in love with the Rebellion, it's stated constantly throughout the entire movie that he cares about escaping the first order, and he cares about Ren. They are the answers to what you have asked, whether you like them as answers or not, the movie has provided those as answers to what you've stated.
 
why would Luke dump her in one of the most uninhabitable planets in the care of an untrustworthy junker?

Why would Luke bail on the Galaxy for 10 years after his apprentice turned on him, slaughtered his students, and joined up with a new empire to fly a planet around, suck up suns, and blow up entire star systems? Because the view from that rock was THAT good?

Luke might not be the most hero-y of heroes in this trilogy. There's a reason the first time you saw him his white robes were grungy and filthy, and he looked half-crazy.
 
Rey would have to be Kenobi's granddaughter and that's just too distant a relation for it to have any emotional weight. Might as well have her be completely unrelated, because it would have the same shock value.
 
Kenobi theory makes no sense since he was pretty much celebate in prequals and a hermit in ANH

how can he can conceive a child after death?

I mean who knows? But I doubt the Kenobi theory. There was nothing about Kenobi that would indicate he would break from the jedi teaching of not being romantically involved. Plus, he saw what it did to Anakin.

Rey's a Skywalker...Luke's the father...the twist is who is the mother. Thats my guess

Would consider it somehow being Leia/Solo kid with some "mind-wiping" theory...but that is a weaker plot device.
 
Two questions:

1. If Rey is Luke's kid, why is Luke such an asshole? First he dumps her off on a dangerous, piece of shit desert planet, leaving her a de facto orphan, then he makes her hike up a mountain just to watch him take a piss.

2. Why would the movie end the way it did? Why doesn't Luke reach out to her? Why doesn't he say something? They're leaving this thing ambiguous only so they can answer it within the first five minutes of the next film?

I don't think he recognized her. Or her him, for that matter. Being a Kenobi kiddo makes more sense thematically, but I think she's really a nobody. We'll never find out who her parents are, and it doesn't really matter. Kylo is the new Skywalker. Rey is the harbinger of a tainted bloodline.
 
There's a 20 year period on Tatooine that's unaccounted for.

So it makes sense that at some point in that 20 year period where he's not going anywhere near Luke Skywalker, that something coulda/mighta happened.

Keep in mind: Skywalker kid theory seems to work more smoothly, and make more innate sense so as to keep the story moving forward as fast as possible (which Abrams/Kasdan prioritized), so it's always the most likely option.

The Kenobi child theory would make sense if he wasn't presented as a monk-type character in eps I>IV. Let's face it, Ben was old before he was "old Ben". I would be perfectly fine with the "he actually loved someone!" angle, but it doesn't really mesh with the established character. I don't feel it. (Would still love to see a Kenobi kid).
 
There's a 20 year period on Tatooine that's unaccounted for.

So it makes sense that at some point in that 20 year period where he's not going anywhere near Luke Skywalker, that something coulda/mighta happened.

Keep in mind: Skywalker kid theory seems to work more smoothly, and make more innate sense so as to keep the story moving forward as fast as possible (which Abrams/Kasdan prioritized), so it's always the most likely option.

People keep saying "then who is the mom?!" if its Luke complicates things, which I do not see at all. Explaining the Kenobi aspect or her being a second kid of Leia's requires more exposition than who her mom would be.

The mom thing with her being Lukes can be pretty easily hand-waved. She was part of Lukes academy and killed when Kylo & the other Knights of Ren attacked. Done. Over.

You can dismiss that in one single line AND give her more motivation for her eventual rematch with Kylo. I mean they explained away Luke and Leia's mom with a single line in the OT as well after all.

Having her be Lukes is the scenario that can be explained with the least amount of exposition while giving her motivation for a Kylo confrontation.

And helps explain why she is so god-damn powerful in the force. Her grand-daddy is Vader, and if dad is Luke and her mom is also Force Sensitive? Damn good force genes there.
 
Why would Luke bail on the Galaxy for 10 years after his apprentice turned on him, slaughtered his students, and joined up with a new empire to fly a planet around, suck up suns, and blow up entire star systems? Because the view from that rock was THAT good?

Luke might not be the most hero-y of heroes in this trilogy. There's a reason the first time you saw him his white robes were grungy and filthy, and he looked half-crazy.

That's part of the cliffhanger....

There is a lot we don't know about why Luke bailed out...
 
KENOBI KID THEORY QUESTIONS

1) Yeah, I'd probably see the possibility of her being a Kenobi descendant as more likely if she hadn't said that. Kylo being Leia and Han's son fills that description, but I have a feeling she's talking about the hero of the story as well. Luke being her father still seems the most likely possibility.

2) Yeah, but it'll definitely confuse the general audience if they drop that bomb on them when we've never seen or heard of another Kenobi.

3) Nah, I wouldn't see it as fake. I actually quite like the idea of Luke adopting her and she claims the Skywalker name as her own.
 
Rey would have to be Kenobi's granddaughter and that's just too distant a relation for it to have any emotional weight. Might as well have her be completely unrelated, because it would have the same shock value.

I don't buy this. The idea there'd be no emotional weight whatsoever when Ewan McGregor coming back to do a single line of voiceover became news in and of itself.

Same with the idea that it'd be cheating somehow if Luke simply adopted her. "Oh, she's not REALLY a Skywalker then."

I dunno, maybe Luke comes around to the idea that the Skywalker name means more (and is better for) the galaxy than actual Skywalker blood. The best way to move that legacy forward is to hand down the name to someone who doesn't have a tie back to Darth Vader in any way.

That's part of the cliffhanger....

I know, that's what I'm saying.
 
PREDICTION TIME

So based on all the evidence and research I have gathered, this seems the most likely outcome:

Han was ALREADY dying. He spoke with Kylo Ren beforehand and arranged to have Kylo Ren kill him so that Chewie wouldn't have to. This also meant that it would look like Kylo was loyal to the First Order, meaning that the resistance would be able to have an agent in SNoke's inner circle. This way Kylo will be able to sabotage Snoke's plans and keep Rey safe until she is able to kill him to collect the Elder Lightsaber.

It took me a while to get the reference.

Awesome!
 
Finally saw this last night! I have a lot to say and no where else to say it, so I'm gonna just vomit it out now. I will say that overall, I really liked it, but there were points that rubbed me wrong. I'll start with the bad and get that out of the way. It may seem like I didn't like it at first, but lemme get this out of my system before going off on what I did like.

The Bad

Harrison Ford - Easily the worst part of the movie. Look, I love Han Solo, but Jesus Christ man, if he didn't want to play the character again he could have just ignored the dump truck of money they likely backed up to his house and said "Thanks, but I'll pass". He phoned it in probably 90% of his screen time. He was god damned awful and I felt nothing for his character in the way I was supposed to. Where was the emotion when it came to his son? I never got a glimpse into the pain he felt from what happened in the past, nor did he seem like he carried any of it with him into his on-screen self. He was just a crochety old man, and when he died, I felt nothing for him. That's Ford's fault. There was some nuance to his performance I appreciated, but I'll touch on that later.

Plot rehashing - Naive-yet-force-strong kid/young adult on a desert planet is thrust into adventure? I get where they're going with this, even if we've kind of done it twice already. A neo-Cantina/Jabba's Palace party scene when they go see Han's tiny-yet-wise goggle-eyed friend? OK, she's not quite Yoda, so I guess it's different enough. But the main battle surrounding the destruction of another Death Star? Even the movie makes fun of this in the battle planning scene. Would have been kind of nice if the good guys didn't manage to blow it up if they were going to go that route. You could make the argument that the movie isn't really about this conflict, and you'd be right, but it's there to provide a greater sense of threat. The stakes are supposed to feel high, but instead, it just feels like we've been here before. And we have -- twice.

Sudden expertise - Kylo Ren's introduction establishes him as a powerhouse. Dude immediately does stuff with the force we've never seen and with seeming ease. So why, then, is Finn able to fight so well against him? For that matter, why is Finn so quickly an expert with a lightsaber? Aren't they supposed to be difficult to wield? I guess it's possible he had some sort of training we don't know about with sword, but to go toe to toe with Kylo just seemed off color. That said, Rey all of the sudden being able to sword fight like a champion, even if Kylo is hurt, was even worse. They establish that she's proficient with a staff, but a lightsaber is not at all the same thing. Moving past that, she knows how to fly the Falcon, and almost as well as Solo? And, on top of that, she just starts kind of guessing at what her force powers might be? I don't mind that she was kind of discovering them as she went, but there were more subtle ways to go about it. It was just overall kind of hamfisted in this regard.

Pandering - There was a LOT of this, and it was kind of surprising. Too many "Hey look, it's that guy!" moments or "Hey, remember when this happened?" type spots. I don't mind a few, but this was a bit much. I won't belabor this point, I just hope they got it out of their system here.​

The Good

The new characters - Can't say enough good things about the new cast. Let's start with Finn. I love the idea of a Storm Trooper gone rogue. Great concept. But what I really liked about him was how he was both cool and incredibly awkward. They nailed that whole guy-out-of-his-element feeling, where you could see he didn't quite know how to interact with people the way a guy who grew up only training as a soldier would. Rey was pretty great, too. She's intelligent and capable, plus she seemingly has an emotional core we're going to have revealed to us as these movies go on. BB-8 was surprisingly good in the R2 role. But the character I'm most excited to see grow and change is Kylo Ren.

Kylo Ren - Dude gets his own section here. It's possible they're going to get right with him everything they got wrong with Anakin. They establish his power and darkness right away in the opening scene where he stops a laser, interrogates Poe while it's frozen, orders the village to be slaughtered, and doesn't let the laser go until you've probably forgotten about it. Then they show him struggling with the light-vs-dark and you get an actual sense that there's a deeper conflict. The interrogation scene with him and Rey is particularly good, as you can see his insecurities front and center. Finally giving into the dark side and killing Han actually means something because they took the entire movie showing you how hard it was to make this decision. Having a character give into the darkness means something when you can watch the descent and root against and/or for it. And the best part is, thanks to his established emotional complexity, it's still not clear he's completely evil. Great work on this character.

A sense of mystery - One of the mysteries I don't see people talking about much is Finn, and how Kylo Ren notices Finn in the village, knew later he was the defector, and then after that, he and Snoke talk about there being "an awakening". Those feel too directly connected. I honestly think Finn is going to end up being force capable, and it might explain his sudden proficiency with a lightsaber. But the elephant in the room is Rey, and who her parents might be. And to the writers' credit, they didn't clearly establish who it is, leaving clues to two schools of thought at the very least. Which is awesome. There were moments where Han looks at her with fatherly regret and/or pride in the Falcon. And just how did she know how to pilot the damn thing so well, and with no training? And the scene where Han and the little orange goggles/Yoda lady were talking where she asked "Who's the girl" was telling. Plus then you have Kylo Ren being somehow aware of her, and he's definitely a Solo. But then they allude that she might be Luke's, with the lightsaber calling to her, and when she turns the lightsaber on, playing Luke's theme. And her character parallels to Luke in general are maybe a clue. It was masterful. Then we have Snoke. Who is it? Is it a Sheev clone? Is it Darth Jar Jar? Is it the Trade Federation aliens? The villains as a whole are a good mystery. Who is that with Kylo Ren in Rey's vision? That's a big group. What is their history, what are they up to? They're not Sith? Did the Sith somehow survive or are they eliminated? It's nice to finally not know things again in the Star Wars universe.

A sense of adventure - Finn's journey across the desert and subsequent arrival at the watering pool had weight. Rey having never seen such a green planet before came across well, and the location there seemed full of history, even if we don't get to actually learn about it. The creatures in Solo's freighter were alien and otherworldly in a good way. The whole movie was about trying to locate Luke Skywalker and fighting over a map piece that contained his whereabouts, and then in the end...

Luke - That final scene was powerful. They have so much potential with him returning here. And I get the feeling Hamill actually wants to be part of this movie, unlike Ford. The Yoda parallels are strong, with the failure and self-imposed exile, but I'm praying they find a way to have him redeem himself that doesn't involve dying for a cause.​

Overall, I really liked it. They played it kind of safe, but I feel like they were laying the groundwork in a familiar fashion to hopefully go into a new territory. I love that there's so much I don't know going forward, and I'm glad the new cast of characters is so compelling. I have hope for this franchise for the first time in 15 years.
 
The idea that they're playing Luke as a father as the "reveal" is considerably worse, since it's something we've been thinking since before we had a trailer.

Atleast a twist works once, this doesn't surprise at all.

I was thinking about this as well. It's already the kind of thing that could fall flat if they try to make it a twist, but if you consider that Star Wars is very likely to continue on past this trilogy, it would become boring and predictable if they tried to make it a twist every trilogy that someone is someone else's child.

It's why I was glad they rolled out the Kylo Ren parentage reveal so nonchalantly. It's kind of old hat at this point. Put it out there and move on to meatier things.
 
I dont understand where this Kenobi stuff is coming from. Seems crazy to me.

why would Luke dump her in one of the most uninhabitable planets in the care of an untrustworthy junker?

I'm not commenting on the validity of the theory nor do I have any insight to add that hasn't already been said. Just commenting on how they should handle it if it turns out to be true.
 
Two questions:

1. If Rey is Luke's kid, why is Luke such an asshole? First he dumps her off on a dangerous, piece of shit desert planet, leaving her a de facto orphan, then he makes her hike up a mountain just to watch him take a piss.

2. Why would the movie end the way it did? Why doesn't Luke reach out to her? Why doesn't he say something? They're leaving this thing ambiguous only so they can answer it within the first five minutes of the next film?

I don't think he recognized her. Or her him, for that matter. Being a Kenobi kiddo makes more sense thematically, but I think she's really a nobody. We'll never find out who her parents are, and it doesn't really matter. Kylo is the new Skywalker. Rey is the harbinger of a tainted bloodline.

Could've been the mother that took her. Luke may not have known where she was, or even known about her at all.
 
First off everyone in Star Wars is a terrible parent.

Second, the Skywalker boys clearly have a problem keeping it in their pants. You're supposed to be Jedi!
 
You know...

Who says it had to be Luke and co that dropped Rey off?

Maybe Luke entrusted her to some of the other Jedi... But they were broke and scared of what Ren and Snoke could do... And they became desperate and sold Rey to the junker for parts and money to get as far away from that part of the galaxy.

Just because we see Rey dropped off at that age doesn't mean she was being trained up till that moment. Maybe the Jedi had been on the run for a while after Snoke and Kylo attacked. I believe Rey is 10 years younger than Kylo.
 
The novelization says that Rey is 19 at the start of TFA. How old do you think she looked in that flashback? Maybe 9? Or do you think younger? Hard for me to judge from memory.
Edit: One of you said age 5. I'm not far enough in the book yet to get that detail so I'll assume you are, and are correct.

And assuming her past is somehow tied into the events preceding the film, that may indicate that Luke went away 14 years ago and that Ren joined Snoke around age 15 or 16.

Listen to Full of Sith

It shall be done.
 
I mean who knows? But I doubt the Kenobi theory. There was nothing about Kenobi that would indicate he would break from the jedi teaching of not being romantically involved. Plus, he saw what it did to Anakin.

Rey's a Skywalker...Luke's the father...the twist is who is the mother. Thats my guess

Would consider it somehow being Leia/Solo kid with some "mind-wiping" theory...but that is a weaker plot device.

Isn't Luke being the father also a mind wiping theory? On the Falcon Rey and Finn act like Luke Skywalker is just a myth and not real.
 

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Could Kylo have gone bad at age 15? Luke missing for 15 years?

It's certainly plausible, and pretty much canon at this point. We know for a fact that Kylo killed Luke's students, and those ages are accurate.

This also explains Han's desire to see his son's face - it's been 15 years (and probably longer, actually, since he was away training with Luke) since he's seen the face of his son.
 
Isn't Luke being the father also a mind wiping theory? On the Falcon Rey and Finn act like Luke Skywalker is just a myth and not real.

Doesn't have to be mind wiped.

Like another user said... Luke's wife or whatever could have ran off with Rey before Like knew about her... Which lead to the events of her ending up on Jakku.

Or Like did know and when Snoke and Kylo attacked the Jedi Like entrusted one of them to keep watch over her... And then events happened where she ended up on Jakku.
 
Sudden expertise - Kylo Ren's introduction establishes him as a powerhouse. Dude immediately does stuff with the force we've never seen and with seeming ease. So why, then, is Finn able to fight so well against him? For that matter, why is Finn so quickly an expert with a lightsaber? Aren't they supposed to be difficult to wield? I guess it's possible he had some sort of training we don't know about with sword, but to go toe to toe with Kylo just seemed off color. That said, Rey all of the sudden being able to sword fight like a champion, even if Kylo is hurt, was even worse. They establish that she's proficient with a staff, but a lightsaber is not at all the same thing. Moving past that, she knows how to fly the Falcon, and almost as well as Solo? And, on top of that, she just starts kind of guessing at what her force powers might be? I don't mind that she was kind of discovering them as she went, but there were more subtle ways to go about it. It was just overall kind of hamfisted in this regard.


Kylo is just playing with Fin. Fin is the cause of all of his problems. Because of him, the pilot was rescued, the droid was able to deliver the map to the Resistance (the map which he wanted to hunt down his former master), His father ended up joining the fight after years of running away, Star killer base is under attack and the resistance knows it's weak spot.

This traitor ruined everything and managed to bring along someone who has the power to stop him. He was going to make him suffer, because all the events, including his father's death were started because of him.

The moment Fin gets a hit on Kylo, he gets his ass handed to him with a lightsaber up the back.

Rey heard the stories of Luke and the Jedi. She did what she heard about in those stories by using the force the way that Kylo tried to do with her. She is a survivor who is used to adapting. She was able to learn the force thru force and turned the tables on Kylo. Using that bit of knowledge allowed her to try to do the same to the storm trooper.

Her final fight with Kylo was more of her getting over her fear and connecting with the force. She was already a strong fighter, she was just afraid of Kylo the moment she laid eyes on him after her vision.
 
I'm hoping that in Episode VIII Rey/Leia have to drag Luke back into the conflict, outside of just him not wanting to deal with Kylo. The new Jedi should take lessons from the old Jedi and try to avoid becoming servants of any one government. I can't see Luke wanting to make the Jedi subservient to the New Republic, which is probably just going to end up being as corrupt as the Old Republic.

Luke should stay focused on the Force, Leia should stay focused on politics, but they end up needing each other.
 
People that want a twist what if Luke had to kill reys mom? She began to turn or was already part of the first order perhaps. People that are arguing shes a kenobi because jedi never have sex seem to forget obiwan was a much more devout jedi. Luke would definately fall in love much easier than obiwan.
 
Ah, but the twist may be who the mother is...and the story of how the last Jedi defied the order's teaching and became romantically involved. (Last we heard when this happened...didn't work out so hot).

Putting that story in a Star Wars movie didn't work out so hot either.
 
Saw the movie last night in Imax 3D and felt it was...ummm good, I suppose.

The charisma driving the new talent was wonderful to watch. The look of the movie was mostly breathtaking, particularly applying artistry behind the technology and design that complemented the original trilogy and fit comfortably into the universe. It was a solid thrill-ride that kept focus and was engaging. As discussed heavily earlier in this thread, the lightsaber duels were far more convincing with each swing compared to the vapid(but entrancing) ballet dances of the prequels.

That said, character motivations, narrative stakes, and general plot arcs were extremely clunky. Scene-for-scene cribbed from the original trilogy practically(particularly New Hope). I suppose I expected a different direction to be taken rather than this lame-duck search for a Mcguffin 'map piece' that spells out Luke's location, which in itself didn't seem to be a very convincing justification for anything that occurs in this film.
Thanks for saying this. Even now I can't think what the map had to do with the Starkiller base and attack on the republic.

I think the lack of cohesion with those two plot points bugged the hell out of me.
 
Any reason why you think that?

The films seem to be borrowing more stuff than the originals and sidelining the prequels. Also, In Sith, it's ambiguous whether that character exists at all, or if Palpatine was bullshitting Anikan. And if he wasn't bullshitting Anikan, he implied that he killed him.
 
People that want a twist what if Luke had to kill reys mom? She began to turn or was already part of the first order perhaps. People that are arguing shes a kenobi because jedi never have sex seem to forget obiwan was a much more devout jedi. Luke would definately fall in love much easier than obiwan.

Obi-Wan did fall in love at least once though with Satine Kryze. Admittedly he never went any further with it as far as we know.

Lucas also said that Jedi weren't celibate. Only attachment was forbidden.
 
Star wars episode 8

Kylo Ren to Rey : I am your brother, search your feelings you know it to be true...

Ren thin slowly leans in and gently kisses Rey's lips...


I don't think they are related. Wouldn't Kylo Ren know he has a Sister? It doesn't really seem like he is entertaining the idea it could be her in this movie. Unless I guess he was led to believe she was dead.
 
Obi-Wan did fall in love at least once though, Satine Kryze. Admittedly he never went any further with it.

Lucas also said that Jedi weren't celibate. Only attachment was forbidden.

While that may be it would be inconvient to have to explain all of that. And my point remains luke is more likely to allow his emotions to impair his judgement than obiwan who was trained at a young age.
 
If Rey is indeed Luke's daughter, I hope she slices the hell out of him in Episode VIII.

Because the only sane reason for him to abandon her as a slave for so many years is either him being insane or her being drawn to the dark side.
 
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