[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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Another interesting aspect regarding Kylo that is apparently in the novelization, is that killing Han didn't accomplish what he wanted it to for himself. He was wrecked with guilt and trying to suppress the light during that fight with Rey and Finn.

From Reddit:

I got some of that from the film tho leaving it open is even cooler (ie. movie novelizations are a fucking plague).

what I like about it is Snoke reacting in the "we must finish his training" way cause whatever they throw at him in terms of making him bad will end up distorting his whole thing even more and make him more dangerous / less predictable. He's just a fucking wild card (lightsaber being all fucked clearly reflecting that).
 
Another interesting aspect regarding Kylo that is apparently in the novelization, is that killing Han didn't accomplish what he wanted it to for himself. He was wrecked with guilt and trying to suppress the light during that fight with Rey and Finn.

From Reddit:

Cool. We were just speculating that very thing a little bit ago.
 
bridge scene:

when Kylo's face goes into the dark, right before killing Han, it was because the weapon stopped charging, right? as in, the sun blew out at that exact "dark side" moment

I dont know if I got that right but if so it was real good little clever moment

Totally intentional.
Totally awesome.
 
I think there's room for it to bloom in the coming movies, it's not too late, going forward, for that be fully explored. I don't think it would have fit anywhere in the end during the fight. They didn't even show us him being found and people think there wasnt enough time for him to get picked up and off planet because they were being so economical with time by that point.

Yeah it'll definitely come back. How does Kylo feel about having killed Han is obviously a huge thing.

They could've made time for that by just cutting the whole tentacle monster sequence. >.<

Ren's count is actually quite irrelevant, even taking the prequels into account. It won't be mentioned, and it shouldn't.

I could be relevant though. We could imagine a story about a guy who wants to achieve great force power but can't because he's born with a real low midiclorians count. He's frustrated by his own capacity falling short of where he wants it to be. Right now we think Kylo's held back by his emotional ambivalence. And people are responding to that, that's interesting. In a world with midiclorians, we have another possible explanation for Kylo being less than he wants to be.

you can do a lot of fun stuff with the character really, he's fucking brilliant

Yep! I'm psyched to see where he goes.
 
But you see, even that half-assed explanation is basically about magic, too.

As I said, don't think I'm some pro-midichlorian dude. Given the choice I would've left those things out of the story, too. But they actually change nothing. They modify nothing. They are basically irrelevant either so they have absolutely no effect on my enjoyment of either the prequels or the originals.

When you pull out a gadget and measure something you have left the realm of magic. For me, that line in TPM was what broke the suspension of disbelief and put a dark shadow over the Star Wars franchise for 16 years.
 
Rey should have kissed Finn on the lips while he was unconscious. Hollywood pretends to be progressive but are scared to death of showing a kiss. People who say they didn't want romance make no sense. Sexual tension is important in Star Wars and always has been. I hope this changes in the next film. I expect that Finn ends up with Lando's daughter or something stupid like that. Interracial relationships happen it shouldn't be that edgy. Screw the "backlash" because we all know "backlash" is really just a vocal minority in comment groups and forums. Most don't care imo. If Finn stays friend-zoned with Rey and she ends up with that Poe guy I will lol.

I was actually holding my breath when Rey embraced Finn for the first time after that fight in the Solo space ship thing.

I couldn't tell whether or not Disney was going to go there with an interracial kiss.

Now that it didn't happen I kind of wish it did.
 
bridge scene:

when Kylo's face goes into the dark, right before killing Han, it was because the weapon stopped charging, right? as in, the sun blew out at that exact "dark side" moment

I dont know if I got that right but if so it was real good little clever moment

Yeah, it was so good. Rey and Finn come in through that door above, and it essentially casts a spot light on Han and Kylo. Then the sun fully goes out as Starkiller fully charges, making the spotlight go out and leaving Kylo dark, only partially lit by a red light right before he kills Han.
 
He can't act, if he could his then career would have survived the prequels, like Natalie Portman's did. Good actors appear in shit films all the time, but a shit actor in a shit film? He was never going to make it. He only ever had the looks.

Natalie Portman, Ewan McGregor, and Sam Jackson all had careers and reputations before the prequel trilogy though. So they could survive and get respectable gigs based on their previous works. Hayden's entire reputation was pretty much tied to the prequels and that's a massive anchor to a career.
 
Rey should have kissed Finn on the lips while he was unconscious. Hollywood pretends to be progressive but are scared to death of showing a kiss. People who say they didn't want romance make no sense. Sexual tension is important in Star Wars and always has been. I hope this changes in the next film. I expect that Finn ends up with Lando's daughter or something stupid like that. Interracial relationships happen it shouldn't be that edgy. Screw the "backlash" because we all know "backlash" is really just a vocal minority in comment groups and forums. Most don't care imo. If Finn stays friend-zoned with Rey and she ends up with that Poe guy I will lol.

I think she should have at least touched his penis, personally

But seriously you have a whole trilogy to develop that relationship
 
I'm pretty sure that was 100% intentional, and it was great

Totally intentional.
Totally awesome.

I think so (and thought so) too, I just couldnt remember quite if that was the light source or if it was clear that it was the sun going out rather than something covering it

I can almost imagine them falling into that bit by how it makes sense both for the character and for advancing the plot at that moment and being so proud of themselves, lol
 
He can't act, if he could his then career would have survived the prequels, like Natalie Portman's did. Good actors appear in shit films all the time, but a shit actor in a shit film? He was never going to make it. He only ever had the looks.

Christensen is solid in other roles. He just had less of an established career than Portman did to fall back on. Natalie Portman has said that the films almost killed her career too, but was saved when Mike Nichols went to bat for her to be cast in Cold Mountain.

Star Wars had come out … and everyone thought I was a horrible actress. I was in the biggest-grossing movie of the decade, and no director wanted to work with me. Mike wrote a letter to Anthony Minghella and said, ‘Put her in Cold Mountain, I vouch for her.’ And then Anthony passed me on to Tom Tykwer, who passed me on to the Wachowskis."
 
Honestly the Obi-Wan/Anakin fight is really good until right around TwirlingLightsabers.gif, and then the fight begins to jump the shark because Lucas thinks just one-upping the spectacle eye-candy makes something epic. I also agree that splicing the Yoda/Palpatine fight into it ruins it (because that fight is fucking awful)

Ugh... Yoda/Sheev fight was terrible.

Everytime I see that one moment where Sheev throws a box seat at him, and yoda catches it... and turns it around? Why? What significance is there to throwing the front part of the object first? Especially if it's going to take you 12 seconds to spin it while your enemy just stares at you and sees what you're doing.

Also, something about Yoda, I can buy that he can actually move fast when he needs to. Don't know why, but it works. Having Sheev have those same lightsaber reflexes seems very odd.
 
Two things:

Rey should have briefly tried to force pull defeated Kylo into the chasm with him clutching at the snow. This would have shown that even she has that dark potential. I know she had just started using the force but she did pull the saber towards herself so in that intense moment a reflex might have had her able to pull him even just slightly. It would have given her even more depth of character and when Luke ends up training her the audience will know that she had a moment and that even she could go bad like Kylo.

5b866ba93e12b8cc9dd3620086be1acf.jpg


Well it is Disney
 
You know, I wasn't a fan at all of Hayden's work in the prequels but I had a brief chance to work with him on the set of Jumper (relax, I was an extra) and the guy treated me with nothing but respect. He said hello, shook my hand and we worked a scene together. He didn't need to do any of that. I kind of wish his career was given another real shot.
 
When you pull out a gadget and measure something you have left the realm of magic. For me, that line in TPM was what broke the suspension of disbelief and put a dark shadow over the Star Wars franchise for 16 years.

They are not measuring the Force, which is still magic and will remain magic. Even in the prequels.
 
Yeah it'll definitely come back. How does Kylo feel about having killed Han is obviously a huge thing.

They could've made time for that by just cutting the whole tentacle monster sequence. >.<

Right? Just get on the Falcon and go!

But I really meant more with how the pacing was going at that point. I think it would've clunked hard had he said or done something to suggest an internal struggle at the point where he's gonna try to kill Rey.
 
Opening the movie with the line "this will begin to set things right" was ice cold.

Also, quite a few pages back there was some big argument over Rey being able to pilot the Falcon, but I'm pretty sure she says to Finn (when they're talking over eachother) that she's flown other ships before (as if it wasn't obvious).

Who said that?
 
I really want to play as Kylo Ren in a good Star Wars fighting game. Too bad EA doesn't really have a studio to handle that well. I want to combo from a haymaker into a wild lightsabre slash. His special skill is punching himself, which increased damage but weakens him.

Another RPG set in this Star Wars where everything isn't stupid would be great too.


Exactly! We don't need a Death Star to have a thrilling next two movies, but you know they're gonna do it anyway unfortunately.

History repeats itself bro. How else do you inflict fear with power than creating something that could potentially destroy planets and/or galaxies that oppose you?
 
It was announced that Star Wars had the best Monday ever. It's now sitting at $288,076,417. I think that with this coming weekend, next week, and New Years Weekend, the numbers will get really huge, especially with kids off from school. I think we could be seeing numbers close to (or surpassing) $500 million. I that happens, I think Star Wars has a decent chance of beating Avatar domestically.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12...um=Movies&utm_content=3&utm_campaign=Blogroll
 
why did he wanna know if he was cute???

Poe and Finn gonna end up together

People are totally misreading that scene. He wasn't trying to find out if Rey had a boyfriend, he was trying to see if she was dating Poe. Poe is the cute boyfriend. Finn tryna make sure Poe isn't taken already.
 
Ugh... Yoda/Sheev fight was terrible.

Everytime I see that one moment where Sheev throws a box seat at him, and yoda catches it... and turns it around? Why? What significance is there to throwing the front part of the object first? Especially if it's going to take you 12 seconds to spin it while your enemy just stares at you and sees what you're doing.

Also, something about Yoda, I can buy that he can actually move fast when he needs to. Don't know why, but it works. Having Sheev have those same lightsaber reflexes seems very odd.

Yoda and Palpatine engaging in a lightsaber duel just feels so lackluster to me. The Emperor should have simply over powered Yoda with the dark side of the Force and that be the end of it. Have the Emperor bust out some crazy dark side abilities (Force lightning and a couple of other things) that just completely fuck with Yoda's entire perception of The Force and how it can be used and have Yoda retreat as a result. It would play more into Yoda's entire "don't underestimate the Emperor's power" bit in Return of the Jedi.
 
To be fair, I got the same exact feeling from the movie itself. Killing Han was simply not enough to make a full shift to the dark side.

This is just my personal opinion, but I'm not convinced there even is such a thing as a full shift one way or the other. There will always be doubts somewhere deep within about your path. A stormtrooper can betray the New Order, a Jedi can betray and murder his own. No one, no matter how conditioned, trained or devout is fully immune to doubt. That's just human nature...or sentient nature I guess? Doesn't have the same ring to it.

Kylo's belief that if he lops enough of himself off, he can sculpt a perfect monster out of what remains is naïve and misguided. He might succeed in becoming an emotional amputee, but he will never feel the purity he's looking for.
 
I didn't want to see Sheev wielding a lightsaber and I don't really fancy the though of Snoke in a dual either. Not every force user has to have a lightsaber. I liked the idea of Palpatine relying on Dark Side tricks to defeat his enemies.
 
Yoda and Palpatine engaging in a lightsaber duel just feels so lackluster to me. The Emperor should have simply over powered Yoda with the dark side of the Force and that be the end of it. Have the Emperor bust out some crazy dark side abilities (Force lightning and a couple of other things) that just completely fuck with Yoda's entire perception of The Force and how it can be used and have Yoda retreat as a result. It would play more into Yoda's entire "don't underestimate the Emperor's power" bit in Return of the Jedi.

Yeah I always thought lightsabers were originally supposed to be a Jedi-exclusive weapon. The Emperor, being a master of the Dark Side, should be well above that. The only reason Darth should have one is because he used to actually be a Jedi.
 
This is just my personal opinion, but I'm not convinced there even is such a thing as a full shift one way or the other. There will always be doubts somewhere deep within about your path. A stormtrooper can betray the New Order, a Jedi can betray and murder his own. No one, no matter how conditioned, trained or devout is fully immune to doubt. That's just human nature...or sentient nature I guess? Doesn't have the same ring to it.

Kylo's belief that if he lops enough of himself off, he can sculpt a perfect monster out of what remains is naïve and misguided. He might succeed in becoming an emotional amputee, but he will never feel the purity he's looking for.

dude, totally. that's the thing

there is no fucking dark side absolute. they all eventually learn that

I never liked that palpatine somehow blocked this idea but we don't know enough about him. regardless he was still on a journey, too. that journey just never ends. I've always come to that as the ultimate message regarding the dark side. that lust for power never ends and your human side always eventually prevails, or kills you.
 
Yoda and Palpatine engaging in a lightsaber duel just feels so lackluster to me. The Emperor should have simply over powered Yoda with the dark side of the Force and that be the end of it. Have the Emperor bust out some crazy dark side abilities (Force lightning and a couple of other things) that just completely fuck with Yoda's entire perception of The Force and how it can be used and have Yoda retreat as a result. It would play more into Yoda's entire "don't underestimate the Emperor's power" bit in Return of the Jedi.

Yeah, it would have been a great opporutnity to show us something new from the dark side.

Up through the first 6 movies, all we know that the Dark side has, compared to the Light side is force lighting.

Force Choking is really just telekinesis used everywhere by the force. Maybe a shroud of uncertainty, but that sounds like a pretty lame ability to have.

Sheev really should have busted out something new for us to get hyped up about. Not the standard lightsaber affair we'd had drilled into us for 3 movies now.
 
Yup, that's my fear when it comes to influencing the plot. Star Wars now has a strong female fighting lead. She appeals to many young girls, she can't just turn bad on them. For any wrestling fans, she's like the John Cena of Star Wars.
Your "fear"? Haha. Star Wars has pitifully few female characters, and had treated them all badly, and the thing you're most concerned about is some vague, ill-defined harm for the story of the new trilogy?

You do care about female characters in stories, right?
It says a lot about Disney's targeting of the female audience for the future.

It makes good business sense, which is why it is happening.
It's also the right thing to do.
 
I just came back from my second viewing, and it's true, all of it... Movie's even better the second time. I paid close attention to the Kylo/Rey fight, because there's the never-ending power level discussion... It's just so obvious that Rey is fighting a highly weakened Kylo Ren. Not only did he take that bowcaster shot, but Finn also manages to hit him once with the saber, and he looks very unhinged in general (just having killed your father could add to that). There are a couple of close-ups to the blood trail, so it's pretty obvious they're telling us he's pretty weak at that point.
Also missed some stuff the first viewing: only noticed the huge scar Rey gave him now. Ren also got Finn good, that was a nasty cut across his back.

Have to agree with all the people thinking Ren is an interesting character and villain. He does nothing but fail in this movie and that's what makes him intruiging. The fact that he's an angsty teen now, will only make his overall arc more interesting, because we'll probably see a very different character in later episodes. Ren is like the 'slow burn' character of the movie: the more you think about him, the more interesting he gets.

Also: people mentioned this before, but Rey's fighting style is very similar to Palpatine's, with those typical thrusts.
 
Christensen is solid in other roles. He just had less of an established career than Portman did to fall back on. Natalie Portman has said that the films almost killed her career too, but was saved when Mike Nichols went to bat for her to be cast in Cold Mountain.
Good thing she did too. She's the best part of that movie, putting Nicole Kidman and Renee Zellwegee to shame with a short role.
 
dude, totally. that's the thing

there is no fucking dark side absolute. they all eventually learn that

I never liked that palpatine somehow blocked this idea but we don't know enough about him

The guy just has so much fun being evil, the thought of crossing over to the light probably never crossed his mind

AliORG.gif


Woosh!
 
They are not measuring the Force, which is still magic and will remain magic. Even in the prequels.

I didn't say they were. What they were measuring didn't make sense, and there wasn't a need to, so they just shouldn't have. Anyway, the sequels did a fine job of leaving that crap behind and I want to believe that it was a conscious decision and won't rear it's ugliness in 8 or 9.
 
I just came back from my second viewing, and it's true, all of it... Movie's even better the second time. I paid close attention to the Kylo/Rey fight, because there's the never-ending power level discussion... It's just so obvious that Rey is fighting a highly weakened Kylo Ren. Not only did he take that bowcaster shot, but Finn also manages to hit him once with the saber, and he looks very unhinged in general (just having killed your father could add to that). There are a couple of close-ups to the blood trail, so it's pretty obvious they're telling us he's pretty weak at that point.
Also missed some stuff the first viewing: only noticed the huge scar Rey gave him now. Ren also got Finn good, that was a nasty cut across his back.

Have to agree with all the people thinking Ren is an interesting character and villain. He does nothing but fail in this movie and that's what makes him intruiging. The fact that he's an angsty teen now, will only make his overall arc more interesting, because we'll probably see a very different character in later episodes. Ren is like the 'slow burn' character of the movie: the more you think about him, the more interesting he gets.

People really seem to forget that hit Finn gets on Ren in their dual. That didn't help Ren's chances against Rey either. He's shot in the gut and has a bad cut on his shoulder/back.
 
dude, totally. that's the thing

there is no fucking dark side absolute. they all eventually learn that

I never liked that palpatine somehow blocked this idea but we don't know enough about him. regardless he was still on a journey, too. that journey just never ends. I've always come to that as the ultimate message regarding the dark side. that lust for power never ends and your human side always eventually prevails, or kills you.

It seemed like Yoda framed it that way, too. Like if Luke didn't do everything perfectly, he'd eventually be just like Vader and there was no questioning it.
 
I didn't say they were. What they were measuring didn't make sense, and there wasn't a need to, so they just shouldn't have. Anyway, the sequels did a fine job of leaving that crap behind and I want to believe that it was a conscious decision and won't rear it's ugliness in 8 or 9.

Believe what you want. Headcanon is a weird thing.
 
I go both ways on Finn / Rey. It'd be kind of cool if she didn't have a romantic entanglement at all. Luke maybe teaches her that.

But I just hope to Christ they don't give her a love triangle. Katniss's was so fucking boring.

You know, I wasn't a fan at all of Hayden's work in the prequels but I had a brief chance to work with him on the set of Jumper (relax, I was an extra) and the guy treated me with nothing but respect. He said hello, shook my hand and we worked a scene together. He didn't need to do any of that. I kind of wish his career was given another real shot.

Yeah, poor dude. Especially since it's clear that Lucas did a shit job directing actors. He got bad performances out of a lot of good actors. But I can't really blame directors not wanting to take the risk with him: every review and all the buzz would've been contextualized back to Star Wars, it's a lot of baggage saddle your own project with.
 
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