[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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the more i think about this movie, the more i love it. Like...nothing since The Dark Knight or Inception.

You know, those kind of blockbusters movie that will be at stars for the ages to come. I didn't feel like that to ANY marvel movies or others blockbusters.
All those easters egg and symbolism like Han shouting: "YOU'RE MY SON" (echo to "IM YOUR FATHER")
The battle in the snow who is the reverse to the lava battle in SW3 with Kylo angry against Finn: "RENEGAAAAATE!!" like obi-wan to anakin "YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!"
 
Yeah I know what you mean; the snark undercuts the drama. Like Poe's "who talks first, me or you?" just seconds after his mentor was murdered in front of his eyes. Or Finn's "why are you doing this? *imitates Han's facial gesturing*" when Han sees Rei. The audience eats it up because the movie is openly acknowledging cinematic cliches, but it just feels a little too "cute" to me. Either play it straight, or don't put the cliche in your film at all.


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Movie isn't for everyone I see lawd
 
It's not been fully explained yet honestly.

We don't know why Kylo started down this path initially, but we do know why he killed his father.

Also I think it's interesting that this is the first movie (that I recall) that a character actually expresses about the light side calling them and trying to fight it, when it's usually the other way around. Yes Darth sorta did it, but it was very spurr. Kylo seems to be in constant struggle of it.
 
J.J.Abrams killed Han solo by Kylo Ren because he need Kylo to be a great villain after the infamous darth vader.

That's why. Nothing more, nothing less. He explain that create a new bad guy after THE GREAT bad guy of movies is really really difficult so he need Kylo to be MORE in the dark side than Anakin
Or probably because Harrison Ford has been wanting han to be killed off for years
 
The Kylo spin is my new favourite move. I like how he almost takes Finn's head off beforehand.

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I've always wanted to see Jon Snow fight with a lightsaber.
 
Just saw it. Don't have much love for Star Wars---as a kid I loved the toys, especially the monsters and such, and saw the Phantom Menace and Clone Wars in theaters but even when I was young I thought they were pretty dull and non-too interesting. Basically haven't touched any EU stuff beyond watching a bit of the CG Clone Wars show which was pretty fun honestly. Kind of interested in checking out some EU stuff though that seems like a confusing and time-hogging endeavor.

I thought Finn was a fun character, but what was up with his character being like that? It felt really odd how suddenly he switched sides, and how much personality he had considering he was basically a child soldier. Then there's the weirdness of him being shaken up at seeing a fellow Trooper killed in the first battle, yet then he's blasting them to pieces without any problem. Him being a former Storm Trooper honestly didn't matter much till the end really, or so it felt that way. The scene where the other Storm Trooper calls him a traitor and then gets all personal with that battering ram weapon felt really off because everywhere else it didn't feel like there was any consequences for his actions, like everyone in the Resistance trusts him immediately when it feels like there should've been at least one person who questioned his loyalty.

This movie really had that "Marvel" vibe at parts---you know what I mean by that, right? How there's sort of an undercurrent of subversive humor throughout the movie that sometimes makes it hard to guess what tone a scene is going for? Perfect example of this in my opinion was when Rey first manifested her mind control powers and used it on the Trooper---that scene felt like it was trying to be funny even though it was a major event. Plus, honestly, it really bugged me how easy that power came to her---Rey throughout the film had gotten through with her tech knowhow and such, and it seems getting out of that chair would involve putting that to good use, just giving her such a great power felt tonally odd. There's lots of other moments where I thought the film wanted me to laugh, even though it was a serious scene. I haven't watched the originals in years, and I know they juxtaposed drama and comedy as well, but it felt a bit obnoxious here and definitely inspired by what Marvel tends to do in all their movies.

The effects were pretty cool overall, and I liked a lot of the background alien designs, but it's odd they went with CG for Snoke and the Bar Owner, the two most important alien characters, and it really stood out in a bad way I thought. Both of them kind of felt like they were from another movie, Snoke like a dude from Marvel as people have mentioned and the Bar Owner gave me an Avatar vibe.

In my opinion that thing you describe as a Marvel movie vibe, is present in the Original Trilogy, in spades. Not saying you have to like it, but it's always been there until the prequels with their funereal tone.

The movie is a paint by numbers affair. It's safe, playful, but utterly forgettable. J.J is a capable director, but hardly anything to gush over.

All his movies share this very mechanical quality to them. It's like pop music. Play the right notes, don't deviate from the formula and you'll please people. This is exactly that.

The amp up to this movie is unlike anything in a long time. That's the difference here and why these initial reactions need to be gauged differently. You have some critics completely and utterly fanboying this shit. It's obvious as hell when you actually think about the movie....

I think that there are character choices in the film that are very much not paint by numbers. Can you show me another antagonist like Kylo Ren?

What, exactly, is wrong with Pop music?

If we try to analyze this situation through the lens of human behavior, then, yes, it is possible that people are getting caught up in the emotions of the moment, but it's also possible that you are firmly taking a contrarian position because it makes you feel above the fray. How is it that you are able to "actually think" about the movie and yet other people are not? How I am I not actually thinking about the movie?

If you disagree about the film, that's fine, but you need to backup your position with more than: I am smarter than all the sheeple.
 
....remember when he murders a village of indigenous locals, including children? And remember when upon admitting this, Padme doesn't fucking run the other way?
I still let out a chuckle when Padmé goes over to him and puts her arm around him after that, trying to calm him down instead of being weirded out, both of these people are fucking insane.
 
I never made the Harry Potter connection since I have not seen any Harry Potter movies but that theory sounded better than half the ones I read in this thread.
Harry Potter connections ehh. Maybe Episode 8 will have a flashback of Han and Leia accompanying a nervous Benjamin Vader Solo to the Jedi Academy shuttle, while nodding to a balding, pot-bellied Lando Calrissian.
 
I still let out a chuckle when Padmé goes over to him and puts her arm around him after that, trying to calm him down instead of being weirded out, both of these people are fucking insane.
They really are lol. So much of the prequels is insane, the writing is just awful.
 
As to the comments about Ren and Rey

It seemed to me like Ren was better in the non-combat Sith stuff. Mind control. Stopping lasers mid flight.

What did he best use his lightsaber for?

DESTROYING EQUIPMENT. hehehe


And we don't know if Rey has never used a saber before. She is clearly strong in the force, and may have been trained but has no recollection. Or she was really leaning into the force, such was the impression we got after Ren offered her training.
 
The idea of the light side calling to him is super interesting and it almost makes me believe this is what Vader is meditating against in his dome chamber he is always in.
 
No it isn't.

If you were in theaters in 2002, you saw people whooping and hollering when Yoda kicked ass. Now those same people whine about how that scene is poorly-staged and "has no emotion."

If you think people's opinions on this movie are set in stone right now, you're wrong. Things are going to change and eventually there will be memes and culturally-accepted narratives about it, just like there were with the prequels. Maybe not to the same degree, but there will be some of it. There always is.

No it really is a false narrative. I don't know what is up with this revisionist history that a ton of people loved the prequels at first..especially this idea that the Plinkett reviews are what really made people dislike them. Top critics on rottentomatoes have both Episode 1 and 2 at 41%. I was 12 years old when Episode 2 came out, and I utterly hated the movie walking out of the theater.

Episode 7 is on a completely different level. A vocal minority may always hate TFA but if you are expecting a majority of people to 'wake up' and realize how bad TFA supposedly is, you will be really disappointed.

EDIT: I just realized you said you liked Episode 7 but still expect there to be backlash one day. My point still stands, though. It is pretty much revisionist history to believe people only just started really disliking the prequels. People hated them from day 1.
 
Yeah I know what you mean; the snark undercuts the drama. Like Poe's "who talks first, me or you?" just seconds after his mentor was murdered in front of his eyes. Or Finn's "why are you doing this? *imitates Han's facial gesturing*" when Han sees Rei. The audience eats it up because the movie is openly acknowledging cinematic cliches, but it just feels a little too "cute" to me. Either play it straight, or don't put the cliche in your film at all.

Yeah, that stuff (and there was more) bothered me, but I think that kind of self-awareness/joke from the audience's perspective kind of thing just what is expected from big budget movies these days. It's where our pop culture currently is. It's the kind of thing that would populate the trailer for just about any other movie as one of those laugh moments when the music cuts out.
 
someone have kylo vs rey gif fight? I loved that fight . Actors were great it was like a promise for 8 and 9. Like Naruto vs sasuke, Aang VS Zuko, etc...
 
Yes. My point still stands. What he did was evil. He was overcome with rage and grief. It is only during Episode III that he turns completely evil while being in control of his actions for the sake of a selfish desire.

Yo, he murdered children.

Pretty sure that qualifies as being completely evil. "Well, he was mad," doesn't really brush that part away. He didn't hand himself over to the Jedi authorities for them to argue whether it's right to allow him to remain in the Order, he doesn't tell Obi-Wan. Next time we see him, he's a full-fledged Jedi Knight having fun-time space adventures until another excuse comes up for him to murder some kids.
 
Do you guys think that Kylo Ren even felt bad while murdering Han?
Totally.

I have no opinion on whether or not they'll attempt a full redemption arc with him, but I imagine it haunting him and disrupting his focus even if he is "committed" to the dark side now.
I assume someone misunderstood their relationship. The visual dictionary doesn't say he's a mentor of Poe's, just a member of the Church of the Force.
Right, and Poe's an X-Wing pilot, so I don't know why they would have that particular kind of relationship
 
Wtf... my friend says that this lightsaber battle was the worst... I I I just can't react. And he compared it to the PT duels... No I don't have this friend now.

People who like the ridiculous prequel fights over the OT or TFA are people you don't need in your life.

I'm half joking.
 
No it really is a false narrative. I don't know what is up with this revisionist history that a ton of people loved the prequels at first..especially this idea that the Plinkett reviews are what really made people dislike them. Top critics on rottentomatoes have both Episode 1 and 2 at 41%. I was 12 years old when Episode 2 came out, and I utterly hated the movie walking out of the theater.

I remember going into Episode III on opening night thinking, "Well, the first two were pretty bad, but I guess I have to see this one."

So yeah, the prequel hate has existed for a long time.
 
Do you guys think that Kylo Ren even felt bad while murdering Han?

The novel implies he did.

Stunned by his own actions, Kyo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakend. He did not hear the roar of the enraged Wookiee above, but he did feel the sting of the shot from the bowcaster as it slammed into his side, knocking him back on the walkway.
 
For some reason I thought Ren was a cyborg/android and the "I killed your son" thing was literal---I doubt that's the case, but his crazy stamina and him hitting his chest during the final fight like he was trying to kick start his body made me think that.
 
I love that too. But in this i can really feel they want to hurt the other. On that fight we had completely trained force wielders.

Yeah and so I'm totally fine with the battles in force awakens but I do want to see crazy choreographed lightsaber battles in the next two movies that are on par or better than the fates fight.
 
Do you guys think that Kylo Ren even felt bad while murdering Han?

After seeing it the second time, I think he was teetering between wanting Han to kill him with the lightsaber or killing Han with it. He actually seems to choose the former, because he puts the hilt in Hans hand. Han hesitates and then the sun in the background completely dies out, and at this point Ben resolves to embrace the darkness.
 
I remember going into Episode III on opening night thinking, "Well, the first two were pretty bad, but I guess I have to see this one."

So yeah, the prequel hate has existed for a long time.

Same here. Episode 3 is the one and only movie where my viewpoint was kinda clouded by hype. My expectations were so low for it after the first two episodes that I was shocked that the movie was so competent. I loved it at first. I still generally like it, but it was also a pretty flawed movie.
 
So BobbyRoberts,

My friend just shared what he thinks is the angle they will go with for Rey's paternity: She is Ben Solo's younger sister (not twin) and full sister. (meaning Han and Leia are her parents as well) How? Well...

Han leaves following the purge of the New Jedi and Ren's Fall. They blame each other and part ways, unable to cope with the grief their lost son represents. In Han's absence, Leia learns she is pregnant. She give birth to Rey but is decides to hide her existence from Han because of how their son is turning out. She wants her daughter to never know she is a Skywalker and to live a normal life. So she gives her to someone she knows and trusts.(TBD) Something horrible goes wrong and in a panic, her adoptive parents go on the run to protect her. (possibly from a Knight of Ren or some other evil being). Rey gets temporarily dropped off on Jakku, with the hope that once they have dealt with the issue, they will come back for her.. They even tell her as much. Tragically, they don't. They are killed before they can return for her.. Being a literal junkyard planet, no sense in looking there for a Skywalker. Now she is grown up oblivious to her true heritage, waiting in vain for her "family" to return

This explains Leia taking a long, almost motherly embrace to Rey and tells her, "May the Force Be With You". It also explains Han not recognizing his own daughter. It also makes the age gap for Rey and Ren fit. Lastly, it makes the connection to the sword and by extension, Maz, Obi and Yoda make sense.

Now, this sets the stage for Rey to face off against Ren her brother, who will most likely, possibly kill her uncle and her mother, Leia. Chances are high that if Leia dies, it's not before he confesses to Rey, "I am your mother..." in a loving manner, completely analog to "I am your father" in the OT.

If for whatever reason, Ren kills Luke as well, that would be him wiping out her true family and giving emotional weight to her drive to avenge the family.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is completely plausible.

Thoughts?
 
I remember going into Episode III on opening night thinking, "Well, the first two were pretty bad, but I guess I have to see this one."

So yeah, the prequel hate has existed for a long time.
I remember enjoying Episode I when I saw it when I was 10 years old. But when I got it on video, I'd only ever fast-forward to the race and the last saber fight. When my parents asked me why I don't watch the whole thing, I told them "the rest was kinda boring." I fucking adored the original 3 and rewatched them again and again, but Episode I, I couldn't sit through entirely. Hell, I was a kid and could sit through Liam Neeson in Les Miserables wide-eyed and thought it was great, but I couldn't sit through the entirety of Episode I. I am not kidding.

Episode II, I came out of the theater thinking Jango was kinda cool, but as I said earlier, the Yoda fight actually bothered me. I was a member of a Star Wars fan club at school, we all saw it together. I was the only one who seemed bothered by this. That and the whole "Why is Padme falling in love with a fucking murderer?" aspect.

Then when I saw Episode III, I actually laughed at some of the more dramatic moments, then finally walked out and realized "These were bad movies, weren't they..." Not even as a question, just as a defeated acceptance.
 
That one paragraph explains the conflict in Kylo better than the entire movie did. His struggle between light/dark didn't feel substantiated at all when he told the Vader mask about it.

Thought the movie conveyed it well, surprised people didn't pick up on it.
 
That one paragraph explains the conflict in Kylo better than the entire movie did. His struggle between light/dark didn't feel substantiated at all when he told the Vader mask about it.
You think? I thought it was all pretty straightforward from the scene early on when Snoke told him not to be seduced by the light side of the force, and then with the line about doing what's right when he stayed on the dark side.
 
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