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[Moonkid]

I agree with so much of this, but I wanted to specifically echo your praise of the visuals. Like you said, the cinematography is unbelievable and only rivaled by Mad Max (and probably The Revenant once it comes out) for me. The OT are definitely are great in this regard, but I don't think it's a stretch to say TFA is a level above them.

I'd say TFA trumps the OT for everything but the conversations in terms of cinematography. They were daring and successful with portraying vehicular movement, but the conversations all too often were reduced to people standing and talking using only close ups and over the shoulder shots. The OT was great with dialogue because it didn't cram our view into the actor's faces all the time, pulling back and letting us take in background details when it needed to. Not to mention it had the actors moving around as the scene progressed. I brought this up in the previous spoiler thread but the film doesn't feel cohesive in its cinematography when it's bold in all the action sequences but goes for the most bare bones method in dialogue scenes that doesn't do the OT justice at all.

 

[Hawkian]

The problem here is that he needed help killing Han. He couldn't do it by himself, so he's still just a poser. Somewhere earlier in the thread, someone posted the novelization text that said something like while pursuing Finn & Rey, he was kind of having an internal panic that the tug of the light didn't go away when Han was stabbed.

I think he's totally torn up about having killed his father too. There's the choices he makes and the way he wants to feel, and the way he is that he can't control.

 

[jtb]

I still don't understand the directors they chose for the three films. I mean, I get it—they have no power and Disney will crush them should they try to exercise any kind of creative vision. but they're such lazy, boring picks. I like Rian (and might be the only person that likes Gareth Edwards too) but even that's pretty uninspired.

--

TFA is the third best shot film in the franchise. Tied with ROTJ for me. Doesn't come close to the first two films. Some of the action sequences in the prequels are better shot than you remember, too.

 

[JaseMath]

I like Rian Johnson's movies so I'm excited to see what he'll do with VIII. Colin Trevorrow though...not so much. Nothing about JW was memorable and the direction was safe and boring to be honest.

 

[brandonh83]

What happens when Episode 9 is good? Will Trevorrow gain cred or will it be everyone else but him?

It'll be good so yeah some such bullshit like that will happen.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The only thing I ask of the sequels is that they don't bring Maz back.

 

[Salsa]

I mean, I get it—they have no power and Disney will crush them should they try to exercise any kind of creative vision.

oh yeah this film didnt feel like a JJ film at all

totally. right.

 

[Theodoricos]

After the pilot, Abrams left Lost's storytelling primarily to Damon Lindelof, who couldn't write a convincing doctor's note, much less a compelling (or competent) story.

Hah, good point. Though it's worth noting that the same thing is happening here with Rian Johnson taking over. That said, the OT had three different directors for each movie, so maybe the same formula will end up working out for the sequel trilogy as well.

The only thing I ask of the sequels is that they don't bring Maz back.

I feel like they'll kind of have to - she practically seems to be built up as this trilogy's Yoda (sort of). There's too many things that she'll need to answer, such as where she found Luke's lightsaber.

 

[FloatOn]

my friends and I were talking about what a star wars film directed by chris nolan would be like the other day.

 

[shortsFortallPeople]

Rian Johnson has said:



If they use Anakin it's going to be Hayden. And honestly I think they should. If you are a great director you can make it work.

He's not going to say, BOY THOSE PREQUELS WERE GARBAGE HUH AMIRITE GUYS because that's disrespectful of the work put into those films and just would be a poor showing by him if he did that.

I think the biggest sign that they're distancing themselves from the prequels is that folks are grasping as straws to find a direct prequels reference in TFA. Sometimes, showing is telling and it's telling that they showed nothing at all

 

[jtb]

oh yeah this film didnt feel like a JJ film at all

totally. right.

JJ doesn't have creative vision. He regurgitates other people's already existing creative visions and then makes them worse.

 

[bananafactory]

I didn't say it was universally reviled. I said it was bad. Two very different statements.

You're saying "bad" as a factual statement when in fact you just didn't like it.

It is generally considered a great film by most.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I still don't understand the directors they chose for the three films. I mean, I get it—they have no power and Disney will crush them should they try to exercise any kind of creative vision. but they're such lazy, boring picks. I like Rian (and might be the only person that likes Gareth Edwards too) but even that's pretty uninspired.

Who would you see as interesting choices, out of curiosity?

 

[Inferno313]

After the pilot, Abrams left Lost's storytelling primarily to Damon Lindelof, who couldn't write a convincing doctor's note, much less a compelling (or competent) story.



I find his faith in lacking movies...disturbing.

If you think Lindelof is a shit writer you obviously haven't watched this most recent season of The Leftovers, which was nothing short of a masterpiece.

 

[Squire]

you watch any Rian Johnson film and it falls much more in line with what JJ did here than with the prequels, I mean it aint hard.

I expect some random big anime parallels, at least in like a cool visual or character. Dude has cowboy bebop, akira, etc plastered all over his every work.

I'm praying the script is good. Him having Willis' Looper character hand wave the silliness of time travel mechanics in Looper really sticks in my mind.

It's not that he's wrong, it's that he didn't couldn't define those mechanics as they work ok a world of his own creation. Star Wars requires someone that can handle a fair balance of minutia and people already can't handle TFA asking them to draw some of their own conclusions. Not a good mix.

 

[Real Hero]

After the pilot, Abrams left Lost's storytelling primarily to Damon Lindelof, who couldn't write a convincing doctor's note, much less a compelling (or competent) story.

Lindelof wrote some of the greatest episodes of TV during Lost's run so not really but this isn't the thread for that.

 

[Salsa]

JJ doesn't have creative vision. He regurgitates other people's already existing creative visions and then makes them worse.

ok bud

 

[opoth]

my friends and I were talking about what a star wars film directed by chris nolan would be like the other day.

I could see him making a standalone movie from the Empire's perspective, and preaching to the audience and putting it in their face how awesome the Empire is.

 

[FeD.nL]

I think he's totally torn up about having killed his father too. There's the choices he makes and the way he wants to feel, and the way he is that he can't control.

Yup. Novelization makes it crystal clear the killing of his father affected him greatly. I really wonder why the book differs so much from the film.

Stunned by his own actions, Kyo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakend. He did not hear the roar of the enraged Wookiee above, but he did feel the sting of the shot from the bowcaster as it slammed into his side, knocking him back on the walkway.
<snip>
Amid the rising bedlam and confusion, Kylo Ren struggled to stand. As he did, so his gaze turned upward.

 

[Prof. Bathtub]

I expect some random big anime parallels, at least in like a cool visual or character. Dude has cowboy bebop, akira, etc plastered all over his every work.

I honestly hope Johnson goes completely Akira/Domu with all the force nonsense, if only because it will annoy those who think any power beyond lifting an X-Wing is too much.

I don't really mind either extreme of force power, just as long as it's handled well.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

the only positive thing I can truly say about the prequels without any doubt is that I liked how it didnt shy away from expanding the universe in a big bad way

so many new designs of new things. robots, ships, planets, etc.

VII particularly didnt have any of that but it worked cause by being so broad star wars had lost a bit of its way so this film being a bit claustrophobic (no real sense of space, travelling at hyperspeed the whole time, moving from ground to ground) actually helped it regain its focus

but, yeah, I like new stuff and the prequels didnt shy away from opening up the universe tenfold

uhh hopefully he refers to that?

Hell no.
I couldn't disagree with any of that more strongly.
Expanded the universe in a horrible way. None of the planets, set designs, outfits added anything to the lore of Star Wars. That was made so shockingly apparent when I was rewatching the prequels again and also seeing that garbage also show up in the originals. It is so out of place and terrible.

I still don't understand the directors they chose for the three films. I mean, I get it&#8212;they have no power and Disney will crush them should they try to exercise any kind of creative vision. but they're such lazy, boring picks. I like Rian (and might be the only person that likes Gareth Edwards too) but even that's pretty uninspired.

--

TFA is the third best shot film in the franchise. Tied with ROTJ for me. Doesn't come close to the first two films. Some of the action sequences in the prequels are better shot than you remember, too.

I watched them all 2 weeks ago. They are flashy but thats it. None of them are better than anything in the OG films or in TFA.

 

[Kyou]

my friends and I were talking about what a star wars film directed by chris nolan would be like the other day.

How would he give Rey a dead wife?

 

[jtb]

ok bud

super 8 [mic drop]

 

[Hawkian]

Don't make me post Revenge of the Sith's tomatometer

what is the issue here? I think most people would agree the third is a better movie than the first and second...

When talking about critical consensus there's a pretty sizable difference between 79% and 90%. Especially for a movie like Safety Not Guaranteed whose score goes up when considering top critics, sitting at 91% versus RotS's 67%...

 

[ReAxion]

Yup. Novelization makes it crystal clear the killing of his father affected him greatly. I really wonder why the book differs so much from the film.

That's the bit. Really adds to how Rey was able to eventually overpower him, too.

I'm trying to think of how they would have communicated this visually while keeping the pace of the last sequence going and I'm struggling to think of how they would do it without it clunking, but I ain't a movie director...

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Am I alone in thinking the scene of Rey eating outside her hovel and putting the pilot helmet on before hearing BB-8 might be the best of the movie? Just a perfect, quiet character moment that makes her so endearing. That moment and the scene where she pulls the lightsaber out of the snow almost choked me up on my second viewing.

Great scenes. I agree! My fav part actually was when she was scrubbing the metal and sees and old woman doing the same - alluding to her future if she stays on Jakku.

Loved that scene!

 

[Starsailor]

Guys Star wars is so iconic in the story and making that riad johnson can't do "shit". It's star wars, you have to show respect to many things for making an episode. There is few liberties for doing a star wars movie

 

[Salsa]

super 8 [mic drop]

that's a weird one cause I dunno if I blame Spielberg or JJ's attempt of brown nosing him

saying JJ doesnt have creative vision is straight up cray talk to me tho, and im far from his biggest fan

 

[ProudCanuck]

"He read it and said something he never, ever says," Grunberg said. "He said, 'It's so good, I wish I were making it.'"

Grunberg added that while Abrams may have said something similar to Damon Lindelof while Lost was on the air, he had never heard Abrams express that level of regret over a project.

The fact that Abrams has a sense of regret is interesting in and of itself, as it implies that Abrams was originally approached to direct more than just The Force Awakens.

Looks good

http://www.polygon.com/2015/12/23/1...viii-script-is-so-good-j-j-abrams-regrets-not

 

[Inferno313]

my friends and I were talking about what a star wars film directed by chris nolan would be like the other day.

I like Nolan, but I can't imagine a Star Wars film by him.

Oh wait, I can.

It would feature a white male protagonist who is obsessed with the loss of his dead wife.

His obsession takes him further and further through an increasingly convoluted plot as themes of betrayal, obsession, and revenge rear their head in between hours of exposition.

W-wait a second...

CHRISTOPHER NOLAN DIRECTED REVENGE OF THE SITH.

 

[DryEyeRelief]

wow I and II reviewed that badly huh

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

my friends and I were talking about what a star wars film directed by chris nolan would be like the other day.

Oh my word I can only imagine the extent he'd take the metaphor of the Force to. I mean both a light AND a dark side? That's like an hour of exposition right.

Spoiler

I love Nolan so much

 

[Salsa]

Hell no.
I couldn't disagree with any of that more strongly.
Expanded the universe in a horrible way. None of the planets, set designs, outfits added anything to the lore of Star Wars. That was made so shockingly apparent when I was rewatching the prequels again and also seeing that garbage also show up in the originals. It is so out of place and terrible.

im hit or miss (like 80 percent miss) in the things that it did introduce but I like that it went for it. That's just what I meant.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

eh, she wasn't alone. we've been through this in the thread. Lor San Tekka is on Jakku and the basic assumptions being made are that he was watching over her the way that Ben was on Tatooine basically keeping an eye on Luke while he was shooting womp rats and working on the moisture farms. Jakku is a lot less obvious a place to look for a skywalker than tatooine so it makes sense to put her in that shitty place, to keep her hidden

Here's a big problem with that- as far as I can tell, he is never given a name in the movie. How can you fill that back story in later if you can't even refer it back to a character name that the audience may be familiar with.

 

[sphagnum]

Kind of bizarre that people can't tell that Rian is being diplomatic about the prequels in that quote. If he actually loved them, he would've described things he liked, not just some vague amorphous "something" that is "beautiful".

It's not good to speak badly of your employer.

 

[bananafactory]

From pandamusk on Twitter

Love it!

 

[Blader]

I still don't understand the directors they chose for the three films. I mean, I get it&#8212;they have no power and Disney will crush them should they try to exercise any kind of creative vision. but they're such lazy, boring picks. I like Rian (and might be the only person that likes Gareth Edwards too) but even that's pretty uninspired.

Maybe Rian and Trevorrow will suddenly be crushed for some reason, but JJ by all accounts was given almost total freedom.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Kind of bizarre that people can't tell that Rian is being diplomatic about the prequels in that quote. If he actually loved them, he would've described things he liked, not just some vague amorphous "something" that is "beautiful".

It's not good to speak badly of your employer.

/GaryWhitta

 

[Dispatch]

Did he answer how this starkiller base is supposed to move around?
Resistance base seemed awefully conveniently close to Takodana when Leia came to the rescue so when and how did that planet thing move towards the Resistance system? Did the whole flora and fauna on that planet make the jump through hyperspace?

I apologize for the length of my previous post, but I would like for people who really like the structure of the movie to try to address some of it as I feel that it is not just nitpicky stuff but TFA actually violated lots of rules and character relations the OT set up over multiple movies.. I feel like I saw another Indy4 while most people seem to have witnessed at least an Indy 3.
For example: Did that not bother anyone that Chewie (Han's partner in crime for the last 40 years) and Leia had zero scenes together after Han's death? Not even a hug? Chewie just awkwardly stumbles around in a background group scene.

I'm not surprised that Chewie avoided Leia. It seems like they're breakup (divorce?) was extremely painful. Chewie is so loyal to Han, he may avoid Leia to show solidarity.

 

[KevinG]

I love Nolan, but don't think his filmmaking would make for a good Star Wars film. Maybe a spin-off?

 

[VistraNorrez]

He's not going to say, BOY THOSE PREQUELS WERE GARBAGE HUH AMIRITE GUYS because that's disrespectful of the work put into those films and just would be a poor showing by him if he did that.

I think the biggest sign that they're distancing themselves from the prequels is that folks are grasping as straws to find a direct prequels reference in TFA.

What's it like insides Rian's mind? He could have said a lot things to not shit on the prequels, but he used the word beautiful. Maybe he genuinely finds things beautiful about the prequels. A lot of great artists and designers worked on the films and produced beautiful work. Don't see the need to shit on them because of Lucas' decisions with the stories and direction.

As for distancing from the PT, TFA takes place 50 years after RotS. What references do you think they would make? No characters from those films are alive in this one, and the OT is treated as ancient history in this film.

 

[Salsa]

pretty sure I heard him talk about Looper on some kevin smith podcast and he casually threw out a prequel diss when mentioning them or something. way before all this.

dude is good. out of all the 3 he's by far the most im interested in seeing, both cause of him and cause of having the empire parallel chapter

you can like his work or not but out of who they chose he's the most out there and the one with the strongest personal vision

 

[Lights and Waves]

I'd also be interested in seeing Hayden return to the role under a director that can really direct him.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

On second viewing, this is definitely what they were going for. It wasn't executed perfectly but, I shall dramatize it for you:

"I'm Kylo on the bridge, there's light side stuff in me but you can't see it cause of my super awesome Vader cosplay i'm so dark DARK SIDE DARK SIDE!"

"BEN! Take off your goddamn helmet!"

*takes helmet off" "omg Dad now you can see all the light side bits in me it's tearing me apart" >_<

(This is bluntly symbolized by the light of the dying star shining through the window and illuminating Ben's maskless face while the rest of him is dark).

"But Dad, u can help me?"

"Sure whatever just let go of the fucking lightsaber"

(All light is drained from the star; Ben's face is left in shadow. Now he knows that he is truly Kylo Ren, he has made his choice and embraced the dark side. He no longer needs the mask to hide his uncertainty and susceptibility to the light).

(HAN SOLO IS KILL).

"Now I am UberDark Kylo Ren, nothing will stand in my way for REAL this time, and I won't be needing to hide anymore."

--

Thing is of course, making that choice is nothing without the discipline it demands. His emotions still absolutely rule him and he's not channeling his rage or hatred, just letting them drive and, as we all know, leaving him with a bunch of saber wounds and one last failure.

I love this bro.

im hit or miss (like 80 percent miss) in the things that it did introduce but I like that it went for it. That's just what I meant.

Its just too risky. I'm glad JJ went the safe route. I think expanding on any creative work where your bringing in a lot of new imagery and culture is extremely difficult to pull off.

 

[Skellig Gra]

I'd also be interested in seeing Hayden return to the role under a director that can really direct him.

The guy who directed him in Jumper is pretty competent but he was putrid in that too

 

[DryEyeRelief]

/GaryWhitta

may someone clarity/contextualize this?

 

[Boke1879]

Kind of bizarre that people can't tell that Rian is being diplomatic about the prequels in that quote. If he actually loved them, he would've described things he liked, not just some vague amorphous "something" that is "beautiful".

It's not good to speak badly of your employer.

Yup it's seriously just a one off comment and honestly even if he did like a certain idea of the prequels who gives a fuck? I know this fanbase can be terrible, but to the point someone can't even make a diplomatic comment about a a particular movie you seem to despise? Jesus Christ.

 

[Lights and Waves]

I'm not surprised that Chewie avoided Leia. It seems like they're breakup (divorce?) was extremely painful. Chewie is so loyal to Han, he may avoid Leia to show solidarity.

He hugged her as soon as he saw her. He's not avoiding her.

 

[Theodoricos]

I'm not surprised that Chewie avoided Leia. It seems like they're breakup (divorce?) was extremely painful. Chewie is so loyal to Han, he may avoid Leia to show solidarity.

Except he did hug her when she arrived on the forest world, so it doesn't make sense that they didn't at the very least look at each other in that sequence.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

may someone clarity/contextualize this?

I believe he frantically deleted any trace of his criticism of the prequels, around the time he got the writing gig for Rogue One.