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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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ElBoxyBrown said:
I think Finn should get a lightsaber even though he has no force powers. This movie shows that any normal person can wield a lightsaber and do work.
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The problem is even if you can say hold your own in a saber on saber duel with a fully trained force user (which you probably couldn't; Kylo was injured, emotionally distracted, and isn't 'finished') many of the other applications of a lightsaber which may come in handy DO require the force to do; deflecting blaster fire, catching lightning, etc.
 
140.85 said:
Am I a humorless stick-in-the-mud for hating the whole emo Kylo thing?

It really annoys the hell out of me that people are reacting this way to a villain with good depth and complexity. Just because he doesn't fit into a two-dimensional typical badass bad guy archetype doesn't mean he's LOL EMO. Emo is typically whiny but without the ambition or courage to change or deal with what is troubling you - this is not Ren.

Besides, the whole emo joke thing is so early 2000s
Click to expand...

It's not very funny.
 
Watched it again and enjoyed it even more.

On a side note, Kylo knows where Luke is, and Rey has clearly been to Luke's island before. When Kylo is interrogating Rey, and searches her mind, he speaks of seeing the island surrounded by ocean. Probably a memory that even Rey couldn't properly define.
 
Here are the rest of the Hot Toys figures:

Rey & BB-8 & standalone Rey
star-wars-rey-bb-8-sixth-scale-set-hot-toys-feature-902612.jpg


Kylo Ren
star-wars-kylo-ren-sixth-scale-hot-toys-feature-902538.jpg


Captain Phasma
star-wars-captain-phasma-sixth-scale-hot-toys-feature-902582.jpg


And a bunch of First Order dudes.
Click to expand...
 
jackal27 said:
Luke's training with Yoda takes a couple of hours at most, haha. I hate that I notice it every time I watch.

But please someone explain it to me with silliness. I know it's coming.

When it comes to the Force Awakens there were several timing things like this as well, but it doesn't affect my suspension of disbelief because you know... It's Star Wars.
Click to expand...

There is definitely a flaw in the timespan of Empire. The editing makes it seem like Hans and Luke's stories are running concurrently, but then there is dialogue from Yoda staying, "no more will I teach you today." I have no idea how long Luke was there.
 
Rey won't be there when Finn comes to. I could see him missing her being how he discovers he has sole Firce sensitivity, himself. He'll be hanging around the Rebels, too. Leia will probably be the one to pick up on it.
 
EatinOlives said:
I was JUST about to ask that.

I really hope they didn't, because in addition to being really mean spirited I think it'd be a great waste of a character.
Click to expand...

The whole thing feels strange. Like they cut out content from the movie. Like you really don't know what happened to her. Was it all a joke. Is she dead. Guess we'll have to wait till the next episode
 
Bobby Roberts said:
Sith is more or less a belief system/religion.

Essentially, right now Kylo is like, presbyterian. His granddad was catholic. Kylo apparently doesn't want to be a sith at all (and neither does Snoke, it seems) likely because they believe pursuing that belief system didn't help out Palpatine & Skywalker all that well.
Click to expand...

To expand on this, anyone can be a dark side Force user since the dark side is a natural element of the Force. But the Sith are a specific religion/cult of dark siders that broke away from the Jedi in an event called the Hundred Year's Darkness. There used to be a lot of lore and history behind them in the old EU but that's almost all been wiped out due to the canon purge. The material we have left - the six movies, TCW, and the new books and comics - have mostly focused on the Sith's plans rather than their beliefs. We do know that their "homeworld" is Moraband (used to be called Korriban) and that at one time they had their own language called the Balc speech, but they do not seem to be tied to any particular alien species like in the old EU, simply being an offshoot of the Jedi.

However, it is sufficient to say that the Sith's main goal is personal power. They do not believe in living with the Force but in subduing it to their own goals, gaining total mastery over it to bend reality to their will. Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious were both obsessed with learning the secret to physical immortality, as neither (nor any of the Sith) believed that life after death was possible; the Sith consider (their own) death an absolute, the worst possible thing to encounter, while non-Sith can be more flexible in this regard. This is why a Sith will never sacrifice themselves, since they hold no allegiance to anyone but themselves and their own power, while (Rebels spoilers!)
the Grand Inquisitor was willing to die rather than face Vader - he feared Vader more than his own death, while a Sith would fear nothing except death, even if he/she would not admit it. This was made clear by Dave Filoni in Rebels Recon.

Following the collapse of Sith rule of the galaxy during the birth of the Galactic Republic, the Sith survived under Darth Bane, who established the Rule of Two - that there could only ever be at any given time two Sith, a master and an apprentice, one to hold power and one to crave it, with the theory being that the Sith had been brought to ruin because of constant infighting and backstabbing, and only with this structure could they continue on and grow stronger in secret. The Sith master would teach the apprentice everything he/she knew, and when the apprentice came to be strong enough, he/she would murder the master and take the place at the top. Obviously every Sith master intended on staying alive, but this was the inherent structural dynamic of this system, and it worked in that the Sith managed to survive and plot for a thousand years until their plans were culminated in Sidious' rise to power.

They are not averse to using other dark siders, such as Sith acolytes like Asajj Ventress or the Inquisitors from Rebels, but these people are only trained as attack dogs with a basic understanding of the dark side. They do not have access to the Sith's great secrets. For example, the Grand Inquisitor had to torture Kanan with machinery and utilizes his spinning lightsaber to make up for deficient combat skills. These lackeys are basically used to carry out missions on behalf of the Sith, and if one turns out to be very strong they could either be taken into account as potential future apprentices (like how Sidious treated Tyranus) or rivals to be eliminated (like how Sidious treated Ventress).

The Sith have amazing mastery of the Force and can perform feats that (canonically at least) no other Force user has been able to do. These are closely guarded secrets that the Sith master teaches the apprentice, and we have only seen a few of them, such as Force lightning or Sidious and Tyranus' ability to manipulate Yoda into a Force vision through Sith alchemy across the galaxy.

Sith are basically darksiders++ with their own specific hierarchy and arcane knowledge.
 
EatinOlives said:
I was JUST about to ask that.

I really hope they didn't, because in addition to being really mean spirited I think it'd be a great waste of a character.
Click to expand...

They presumably did, but Kathleen Kennedy has said all their core stars will return for Episode 8 - and one would imagine that'll include her. It's a basic role now, but one ripe to expand in a future episode. It's probably a fairly safe bet that all the First Order characters that we see prominently evacuated off Starkiller base before it was destroyed, given Snoke's order to retreat with Kylo to the commander dude. We never see that, but I'd bet Phasma is on that ship with those two by the end, she'll get out of the trash compactor. I'm sure if Lucas wasn't unsure there'd ever be a sequel to A New Hope he'd have kept Tarkin alive, too. He was missed in the latter films. They can leave characters a little underdeveloped in one film in order to push them later; they have that luxury with this multi-film structure, I suppose.
 
APZonerunner said:
The problem is even if you can say hold your own in a saber on saber duel with a fully trained force user (which you probably couldn't; Kylo was injured, emotionally distracted, and isn't 'finished') many of the other applications of a lightsaber which may come in handy DO require the force to do; deflecting blaster fire, catching lightning, etc.
Click to expand...

They could give him the electric tonfa thing.
 
Was there anything that was created specifically in the prequel trilogy that was mentioned in The Force Awakens other than the fact that the Stormtroopers were clones at one time?

"Maybe we should go back to clones."
"Pppppt, nah."

I cant think of anything else.
 
AlexMogil said:
Was there anything that was created specifically in the prequel trilogy that was mentioned in The Force Awakens other than the fact that the Stormtroopers were clones at one time?

"Maybe we should go back to clones."
"Pppppt, nah."

I cant think of anything else.
Click to expand...

"Balance of the Force" in the opening.
 
sphagnum said:
To expand on this, anyone can be a dark side Force user since the dark side is a natural element of the Force. But the Sith are a specific religion/cult of dark siders that broke away from the Jedi in an event called the Hundred Year's Darkness. There used to be a lot of lore and history behind them in the old EU but that's almost all been wiped out due to the canon purge. The material we have left - the six movies, TCW, and the new books and comics - have mostly focused on the Sith's plans rather than their beliefs. We do know that their "homeworld" is Moraband (used to be called Korriban) and that at one time they had their own language called the Balc speech, but they do not seem to be tied to any particular alien species like in the old EU, simply being an offshoot of the Jedi.

However, it is sufficient to say that the Sith's main goal is personal power. They do not believe in living with the Force but in subduing it to their own goals, gaining total mastery over it to bend reality to their will. Darth Plagueis and Darth Sidious were both obsessed with learning the secret to physical immortality, as neither (nor any of the Sith) believed that life after death was possible; the Sith consider (their own) death an absolute, the worst possible thing to encounter, while non-Sith can be more flexible in this regard. This is why a Sith will never sacrifice themselves, since they hold no allegiance to anyone but themselves and their own power, while (Rebels spoilers!)
the Grand Inquisitor was willing to die rather than face Vader - he feared Vader more than his own death, while a Sith would fear nothing except death, even if he/she would not admit it. This was made clear by Dave Filoni in Rebels Recon.

Following the collapse of Sith rule of the galaxy during the birth of the Galactic Republic, the Sith survived under Darth Bane, who established the Rule of Two - that there could only ever be at any given time two Sith, a master and an apprentice, one to hold power and one to crave it, with the theory being that the Sith had been brought to ruin because of constant infighting and backstabbing, and only with this structure could they continue on and grow stronger in secret. The Sith master would teach the apprentice everything he/she knew, and when the apprentice came to be strong enough, he/she would murder the master and take the place at the top. Obviously every Sith master intended on staying alive, but this was the inherent structural dynamic of this system, and it worked in that the Sith managed to survive and plot for a thousand years until their plans were culminated in Sidious' rise to power.

They are not averse to using other dark siders, such as Sith acolytes like Asajj Ventress or the Inquisitors from Rebels, but these people are only trained as attack dogs with a basic understanding of the dark side. They do not have access to the Sith's great secrets. For example, the Grand Inquisitor had to torture Kanan with machinery and utilizes his spinning lightsaber to make up for deficient combat skills. These lackeys are basically used to carry out missions on behalf of the Sith, and if one turns out to be very strong they could either be taken into account as potential future apprentices (like how Sidious treated Tyranus) or rivals to be eliminated (like how Sidious treated Ventress).

The Sith have amazing mastery of the Force and can perform feats that (canonically at least) no other Force user has been able to do. These are closely guarded secrets that the Sith master teaches the apprentice, and we have only seen a few of them, such as Force lightning or Sidious and Tyranus' ability to manipulate Yoda into a Force vision through Sith alchemy across the galaxy.

Sith are basically darksiders++ with their own specific hierarchy and arcane knowledge.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the post. Very insightful!
 
AlexMogil said:
Was there anything that was created specifically in the prequel trilogy that was mentioned in The Force Awakens other than the fact that the Stormtroopers were clones at one time?

"Maybe we should go back to clones."
"Pppppt, nah."

I cant think of anything else.
Click to expand...

Podracers on Jakku
"Balance of the Force"
PT and EU flags on Maz's palace
Sith
Jedi temples
 
Unless the Knights are jobbers, I can't imagine introducing a whole new crew of villains and trying to expand the roles of the ones already present in 7.
 
AlexMogil said:
Was there anything that was created specifically in the prequel trilogy that was mentioned in The Force Awakens other than the fact that the Stormtroopers were clones at one time?

"Maybe we should go back to clones."
"Pppppt, nah."

I cant think of anything else.
Click to expand...

-Lor San Tekka mentioning the balance of the Force.
-Clonetrooper mention
-Podracer engine in background on Jakku
-Podracer flags and Hondo Ohnaka's flag at Maz's castle
-Maz mentioning the Sith (if you want to count that, since most people associate that with the PT)
 
Jarmel said:
Unless the Knights are jobbers, I can't imagine introducing a whole new crew of villains and trying to expand the roles of the ones already present in 7.
Click to expand...

Phasma is both a Finn problem and a Resistance problem and obviously the two have converged. Same applies to Hux and anyone else from the First Order.

Snoke, Kylo, the Knights - these are the things Rey has to deal with, not that she'll be able to do it all in Ep VIII.
 
mariachi507 said:
There is definitely a flaw in the timespan of Empire. The editing makes it seem like Hans and Luke's stories are running concurrently, but then there is dialogue from Yoda staying, "no more will I teach you today." I have no idea how long Luke was there.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Luke was probably on Degobah for weeks while the Millennium Falcon limped its way to Bespin without a hyperdrive.
 
I think I would have preferred if Phasma had been the trooper Finn fights with the lightsaber (obviously just have her be wounded not kill her). Kylo could just say "bring back the traitor alive," so the shock baton still makes sense. The person who lowers the shields could be a no name first order officer.

Finn could threaten him with the lightsaber and pretend he us a Jedi while Han lols
Also solved the problem of that person getting out of the trash bin before the whole place blows.
 
mariachi507 said:
There is definitely a flaw in the timespan of Empire. The editing makes it seem like Hans and Luke's stories are running concurrently, but then there is dialogue from Yoda staying, "no more will I teach you today." I have no idea how long Luke was there.
Click to expand...

We don't know how long the Falcon was in the asteroid.
 
You know... thinking about it.

I don't even know how you would consider captain phasma a great character. Maybe a character with potential. but... she was pretty much a non character the whole movie. just a generic captain speaking in a chrome stormtrooper uniform.

sc0la said:
I think I would have preferred if Phasma had been the trooper Finn fights with the lightsaber (obviously just have her be wounded not kill her). Kylo could just say "bring back the traitor alive," so the shock baton still makes sense. The person who lowers the shields could be a no name first order officer.

Finn could threaten him with the lightsaber and pretend he us a Jedi while Han lols
Also solved the problem of that person getting out of the trash bin before the whole place blows.
Click to expand...

This makes too much goddamn sense. yes, it should of been her fighting finn. because the way i feel, that storm trooper was a cooler character than phasma.
 
Jarmel said:
I rewatched the Yavin IV Deathstar assault and it really stands out how shitty the X-Wing elements are in this film. There's zero tension in any of them.
Click to expand...
When the word "shitty" comes up in a discussion about a great film, I know I've had too much internet for one day.
 
Bad_Boy said:
You know... thinking about it.

I don't even know how you would consider captain phasma a great character. Maybe a character with potential. but... she was pretty much a non character the whole movie. just a generic captain speaking in a chrome storm trooper uniform.
Click to expand...
Yep. And they had an opportunity to give her something to do since they had a speaking storm trooper mini-boss encounter. Edit: heh, quoted you before you quoted me in the edit. Disregard. ;)
 
Bad_Boy said:
You know... thinking about it.

I don't even know how you would consider captain phasma a great character. Maybe a character with potential. but... she was pretty much a non character the whole movie. just a generic captain speaking in a chrome storm trooper uniform.
Click to expand...

Phasma was clearly in the film just to be established much like the Emperor was established in Empire before he became an actual character in Jedi.

She must've been rescued by the First Order before the destruction of the planet.
 
Bad_Boy said:
You know... thinking about it.

I don't even know how you would consider captain phasma a great character. Maybe a character with potential. but... she was pretty much a non character the whole movie. just a generic captain speaking in a chrome storm trooper uniform.
Click to expand...

I think most of the hype for her was before the film's release. She has a cool design so we all thought she would do cool shit. Also, female stormtrooper.
 
Bad_Boy said:
You know... thinking about it.

I don't even know how you would consider captain phasma a great character. Maybe a character with potential. but... she was pretty much a non character the whole movie. just a generic captain speaking in a chrome storm trooper uniform.
Click to expand...

The fact they tried so hard to make her this films Boba Fett makes it worse. Just let people latch on to the cool looking character who does nothing without forcing it ffs
 
Theodoricos said:
Phasma was clearly in the film just to be established much like the Emperor was established in Empire before he became an actual character in Jedi.

She must've been rescued by the First Order before the destruction of the planet.
Click to expand...

She could be a Boba Fett type who really doesn't do anything in the movies but reaches cult like status.
 
Captain Phasma exists as an identifiable boss for Finn who is a jerk at first and gets a comeuppance later (possibly down a garbage chute). She doesn't really need to be anymore than that for this film.
 
I'm hoping that what happened in TFA will lead into an encounter between her and Finn in Episode VIII where she makes her revenge. I've seen that theory floating around and I personally subscribe to it.

To me so far, the Riot Control Stormtrooper was the "Boba Fett" of Episode VII. I'll freely and shamelessly admit that I found him awesome.
 
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