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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Astral Dog
Member
Im not sure why people are so sure Snoke is weak or will be killed in the next movie like he is not a threat, he has been established as one already, training Kylo Ren to kill his own father,
Its the silly name?
because Sheev Palpatine was the most evil of them all.
Its the silly name?
because Sheev Palpatine was the most evil of them all.Or is he? It was a projection in the movie not the real Snoke.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
excelsiorlef
Member
Im not sure why people are so sure Snoke is weak or will be killed in the next movie like he is not a threat, he has been established as one already, training Kylo Ren to kill his own father,
Its the silly name?
It's not that we're sure as much as we hope, because Snoke being anything but Palps v2 is better
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I thought you were asking about Plagueis. Plagueis wasn't concieved of until around production of Episode II, I believe. Maybe during, as Lucas was working through drafts of III.
The Empire having an Emperor was around since the conception of Star Wars, but the Emperor actually becoming "The Emperor" didn't really solidify until the writing of Jedi. There was kind of an idea of what he was like for Empire, but not really furthered.
APZonerunner
Member
Weirdly, I don't think it'll ever be the case for Finn himself, but I can almost see them being more likely or at least equally likely to go down the "secret romance/baby" route with Windu as Kenobi. His EU characterisation was such that he was meant to be a Jedi who flirted with (but could control) the dark side more than others, and thus was less absolute about the Jedi concepts, so you could see him having a more lax attitude to love.
I guess this'd be something for a 'Star Wars Story' movie or the EU though, not a numbered episode, but Windu is one of those characters that on paper is hugely interesting that was fucked in execution in the prequels, so some sort of continuation of his thread (especially in concept as the 'second only to Yoda' force user in the order) might be interesting if done well.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
A good article on Kylo vs Anakin:
io9: Kylo Ren Is Everything That Anakin Skywalker Should Have Been
There's a lot of TFA that feels like "What the Prequels should have done". Kylo is probably the best example.
But we also have actually developed friendships between the cast members, and just in general a likable group of characters.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Yup. Imagine if we got that + an Anakin/Obi-Wan friendship that's as great as Finn and Poe's. ROTS would have been fucking heartbreaking.
The scene where Sheev mentions Plagueis to Anakin was a pickup shoot. To help explain Anakins nonsense decision to turn dark.
Whether he was something George had in his mind for 30 years is something we'll never really know as he lies a lot.
One of the original ideas for the emperor in ANH was a puppet ruler basically being controlled by underlings.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Shit, I didn't even know that. So that means Plagueis as a concept probably didn't even exist until around 2003/2004.
AtomnayaKlubnika
Member
Then yeah, that's not happening.
excelsiorlef
Member
Omg TFA basically gave us everything we wanted in the PT in 2.5 hours
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
TRAITOR
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
TRAITOR
I genuinely think people who believe ep 8 is a film where Luke is just going to train Rey are in for a shock.
This aint your OT Luke and they are not going to rehash empire.
I think they are going to take it in a whole new direction.
This aint your OT Luke and they are not going to rehash empire.
I think they are going to take it in a whole new direction.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
There are people trying to sell that blue Anakin/Luke/Finn/Rey saber that was on sale for around $100 a few weeks ago for almost $400 right now.
They go into more depth in the novelization:
Snoke knows, he told Kylo, Kylo is well aware of it.
excelsiorlef
Member
He's Leia and Han's kid. Of course he knows.
Ape Gone Insane
Member
She's still going to need training at some point but I can see him being very reluctant to train her. She'll probably spend a good deal of the film trying to persuade him ala Creed.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
So? If they expand upon the character he's bigger... if they ignore him nothing lost.
At this point he's Boba Fett territory before Boba Fett got his solo movie (rumored still)
But neither Han nor Leia were there at the time, so Luke must've told them.
Still, if he knows, I wonder how he justifies it. Interesting!
We know a lot of Bobas teenage years though. In the Clone Wars he has several arcs.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
For Kylo it was just a (fatal) lapse in judgment on Anakin's part; Luke basically seduced/tricked Anakin into going to the light side. The same way Obi-Wan and Luke think that Vader being evil for 20 years was a lapse in judgment.
Not sure what you mean. "Common" as in known to the general public? I'm not sure what he would care if they know or not.
I don't see what he'd change his current perspective rather. He's killed his father, guys. There's no real turning back.
I was just answering the guys question. Not arguing anything one way or the other.
excelsiorlef
Member
Yes I do imagine that Luke let Leia know that their Dad saved them and the galaxy in the end .
Sorry I didn't mean to come across as antagonist. I was just trying to say that just because it was put in as an after thought doesn't mean that JJ and crew can't/won't expand upon it.
AtomnayaKlubnika
Member
He is not a concept from the OT, Kasdan doesn't know him. There is no way they would have thought of him when laying down the overall trilogy arc. At this point he is just at the same level than JJB and the midichlorians bs.
But I wouldn't be surprise if at some point, in the next episodes, there will be some stuff related to the force ability to resurrect people.
TheDinoman
Member
So...did the sign originally say "Don't forget: You're hime forever"?
APZonerunner
Member
RE Plagueis, was his ability ever stated as the ability to actually resurrect people? Or was it just "to stop people from dying"? Those aren't necessarily the same things; I always thought it was the latter, and so once Padme was lost Palpatine didn't even need to explain or try to 'find out the secret' because Anakin's chance to prevent her death had already passed.
AOTC is the only one of the entire saga that is, imo, just irredeemably bad from start to finish. There's the kernel of a good film in TPM and there are actually a great film in ROTS. I can actually see the people who prefer ROTS to this - I think they're nuts, but I can see it. Anybody who prefers Clones actually needs their head testing, though. It's a terrible, terrible movie.
AOTC is the only one of the entire saga that is, imo, just irredeemably bad from start to finish. There's the kernel of a good film in TPM and there are actually a great film in ROTS. I can actually see the people who prefer ROTS to this - I think they're nuts, but I can see it. Anybody who prefers Clones actually needs their head testing, though. It's a terrible, terrible movie.
Yeah, that could work. Though I bet they could still get a make a good scene out of Kylo Ren ranting about why hurling Emperor Palpatine down a shaft was a bad move by his role model.
Not to detract the current discussion going on, but on my way home from work I was thinking about something.
We all know EVERYONE is looking for Luke. Resistance, FO, Snoke, Ren.
I think it's right after Finn and Poe escape and Ren and Hux are on the bridge talking. (It's when Ren mentions the clone army). Hux says something along the lines " Don't let personal feelings get in the way of what Supreme leader snoke wants" Or something like that. He said that to him in reference to Ren being VERY adamant that they find the droid.
The part stood out to me today. Why would Hux feel the need to say that? Their mission IS to find Luke. Then I got thinking. What if Ren (and this is a stretch) wants to find Luke not to kill him but somehow try and turn him to the darkside? I know it's probably me overthinking.
But When Ren is consulting the Vader mask. He says "I'll finish what you started." What does Ren want to finish? Vader had already destroyed most of the Jedi outside of Obi Wan, Yoda, and Luke. Vader was pretty much 2nd in command of the Empire after ANH.
The only thing Vader failed out was turning over his son to the Emperor and pushing him to the darkside.
Again just probably me overthinking.
We all know EVERYONE is looking for Luke. Resistance, FO, Snoke, Ren.
I think it's right after Finn and Poe escape and Ren and Hux are on the bridge talking. (It's when Ren mentions the clone army). Hux says something along the lines " Don't let personal feelings get in the way of what Supreme leader snoke wants" Or something like that. He said that to him in reference to Ren being VERY adamant that they find the droid.
The part stood out to me today. Why would Hux feel the need to say that? Their mission IS to find Luke. Then I got thinking. What if Ren (and this is a stretch) wants to find Luke not to kill him but somehow try and turn him to the darkside? I know it's probably me overthinking.
But When Ren is consulting the Vader mask. He says "I'll finish what you started." What does Ren want to finish? Vader had already destroyed most of the Jedi outside of Obi Wan, Yoda, and Luke. Vader was pretty much 2nd in command of the Empire after ANH.
The only thing Vader failed out was turning over his son to the Emperor and pushing him to the darkside.
Again just probably me overthinking.
I'd rather watch any given Transformers film than see TPM or AOTC again. Awful awful films. I do enjoy ROTS though.
Kylo is still a little bitch so lmao at the comparisons trying to make him sound so much better than Anakin in the PT
I'm sure he will develop to be much better than Anakin was in PT, but as of right now they are both equally bitch level. Rey however is badass as fuck and her character interests me very much, especially since it seems like she is gonna be broken as fuck ala Anakin.
I'm sure he will develop to be much better than Anakin was in PT, but as of right now they are both equally bitch level. Rey however is badass as fuck and her character interests me very much, especially since it seems like she is gonna be broken as fuck ala Anakin.
Still want Finn to be a Jedi
He's unstable, weaker than he thinks he is sure, but his character is much better than PT Anakin simply because they pulled of with Ren what Anakin should have been. No one is trying to make him sound better. Many would agree with you on those points. It's his character that is interesting.
Ren as a character only grows and becomes more menacing from here on out.
Plagueis ability was to prevent someone from dying that is still alive. Palpatine used it to keep Ananakin alive.
But the big picture is that Palpatine claimed Plagueis could not save himself from death, or did he?
See that makes a lot more sense than some random guy who looks like he is 900 years old, who is force sensitive, to just randomly decide that its time for him to try and take over the galaxy. My theory is that Plagueis did actually save himself from dying but had to take a step back from Palpatine because he realized Palpatine had damaged him and hence was more powerful than he was.
In reality Plagueis is more powerful than Palpatine, thats why Palpatine had to do it when he was asleep, but Plagueis might have actually figured out how to survive.
brandonh83
Banned
FWIW I like that Lucas subverted our expectations with Anakin AND the Jedi in the PT. Whether or not that's good or bad is totally up to the individual, but I liked that it was a bit unexpected and not exactly like I thought it would be. And as it were, they can do this direction with Ben without it feeling like the same thing.
I'm pretty convinced Finn is force sensitive having seen the movie a second time. Luck is definitely on his side, to a ridiculous extent - and Obi Wan is on record saying that "there is no such as luck." The scene where he seemingly hears the screams of a destroyed planet is obviously reminiscent of Obi Wan's scene in A New Hope. And there has to be a reason why every other storm trooper is seemingly brainwashed to the point of no return, but he's able to maintain free thought and morality without their being any kind of signs or symptoms in the evaluations that the First Order run on him.
When you say the Jedi philosophy, do you mean the philosophy of the Jedi Order from the PT? I'd assume that he would already have been at odds with it considering his path to victory is through his attachments to his father. Hopefully they don't try to have Luke re-establish the Jedi Order by directly lifting the same rules during the 30 year gap, since the point of the prequels (partially) is that the Jedi are wrong in their dogma.
I could certainly be wrong but for me the scene where the two of them found the Falcon and shot down the the fighters was a big clue they were both force sensitive. The part where they were talking over each other about how great their respective flying and shooting was, they didn't realise the force had aided them. That was my reading anyway.
I actually somewhat enjoyed Obi-Wans mission in AotC, on my most recent rewatch. The rest of the film is indeed (still) terrible -- any scene with Anakin is neigh-on unwatchable, and it also has the worst climactic battle of the saga, with 3PO managing to be more annoying than Jar Jar was in TPM and Yoda being completely ruined. But the Kamino stuff was kind of okay.
That actually puts it above RotS for me, where I honestly didn't enjoy anything. The lows aren't quite as low as in Clones, to be sure, but there's nothing I liked (the very end, with its blatant ANH callbacks, actually come closest).
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