BuggyDClown
Member
I assume her father was there, and many rebellion leaders. Not to mention it happened moments after they finally dissolved the senate. Similar to how they destroyed it in this film.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
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I assume her father was there, and many rebellion leaders. Not to mention it happened moments after they finally dissolved the senate. Similar to how they destroyed it in this film.
excelsiorlef
Member
Just looked up the hitler speech, Hux literally says "...will bring an end to the senate, to their cherished fleet" and calls it the last day of the Republic.
I mean again folks giant Nazi exposition speech telling you exactly who they are firing on, they literally in bold words tell you they're blowing up the Senate and the Republic Fleet... all I point out again to stop Leia from getting to Luke.
Watched the Angry Joe spoiler video. Jeez, that wasn't a great idea. Most of their complaints boiled down to, "this wasn't what I expected/wanted, and should have been that", they were talking about Kylo and how he didn't look threatening enough, they suggested that he should look completely disfigured like Anakin post-lava, because that's what Sith (or Sith substitutes) should look like. This just baffles me, with excessive makeup, it's going to be so much harder for Driver to deliver a compelling performance through expressions. Not to mention Driver's Kylo isn't supposed to be as straight up intimidating as Vader, it just seems like they're missing the entire point. To be fair, he'll have a fairly large scar across his face in XIII, but it's not going to be as excessive scarring as Anakins burns. Oh, and they thought Hux was bad because he looked younger and not badass enough, they suggested that a extra in the background of the scene where Gleeson delivered the speech would be a better fit for the role, because he looked cool, and had a beard.
BuggyDClown
Member
Oh man yes. This was one of my favorite shots in the film. It's fucking gorgeous. Also something the PT fights were missing, they looked tired, wet, frightened. The colors the contrast. It was a beautifully framed and executed shot.
Didn't every inhabited planet have a senator though? I'd imagine even a backwater like Tatooine had a rep. (I know the other stuff is more important but now I'm curious.)
It's important enough to punch Obi-Wan in the gut and get a famous line out of him.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Not really. Important enough in the mythos, but filmically, not that important to the plot of ANH except to demonstrate the weapon. Poorly worded sentence on my part.
Should read like...
The destruction of Hosnian Prime is a cinematic retread of:
1. The destruction of Alderaan, in that TFA follows the template of ANH
2. The destruction of Vulcan in ST2009, in that it seemingly signals a new order in the galaxy.
...and yet the in-movie reaction to it is very limp.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Trigonometrize.
Member
Hey, this talk about blowing up Alderaan made me realize something... Kylo's mind information retrieval power is pretty new, isn't it? Vader could've extracted the base info from Leia's mind if he could. I guess he sort of did something similar in Jedi when he senses Luke cares for his sister, but it wasn't at all on the level of Kylo trying to get a specific map from Rey's mind.
So that's a point for Kylo I guess.
So that's a point for Kylo I guess.
excelsiorlef
Member
Well I mean Leia immediately had a recon ship find where the base was and scan it, and literally right after that Rey escapes promoting the decision to fire again this time on Leia's camp. This was set-up, the destruction of the Republic is going to be a huge factor in later films.
BuggyDClown
Member
Yes it was a step up from what vader did in jedi. In jedi he learns that he has a daughter through luke. That's the first we've seen of it in the movies. Can't remember if it's been done in TWC.
OricWindstar
Member
Hahaha, what a perfect description.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Alderaan is important in that the Empire just tested their planet-killer weapon on the home planet of a traitorous senator, said planet being full of pacifists.
No, it wasn't a particularly important seat of power in the Galaxy, but imagine Germany, in World War II, beating us to a nuke, and proving they had it by dropping one on the Vatican.
It'd be kinda like that.
No, it wasn't a particularly important seat of power in the Galaxy, but imagine Germany, in World War II, beating us to a nuke, and proving they had it by dropping one on the Vatican.
It'd be kinda like that.
I don't agree with Angry Joe's opinion on the movie. However, his point of view reflects an issue that so many Star Wars fans have: Headcanon.
The need to claim that things "should be" in the Star Wars universe as if the interpretation they have inside their heads somehow is better or should override what the director/writer intends the story to be.
"Kylo Ren should be disfigured because that's how the Sith are!"
"Yoda should not use a lightsaber because that's not how Yoda is!"
"Hux should not be a leader because leaders should be older!"
All of this is headcanon. It is the interpretation of fans, which more often than not is at odds with what the authors want this universe to be.
Angry Joe suffers from the same: The belief that his own headcanon is how things SHOULD be in Star Wars. Like he wants the experience to be tailor-made for him.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It is still a relatively small reaction to such a big tragedy.
I guess I could see the filmmakers not wanting to ruminate on its destruction. ANH didn't ruminate on Alderaan's destruction, and kept it light. Maybe they wanted to do the same, and not mess with the formula of an adventure movie.
OricWindstar
Member
It also leads to a bunch of suggestions that work well out of context, but don't work well with what the film is actually doing.
Like how Max Landis' suggestion for how the duel with Kylo Ren should go sounds cool. Until you put it in the framing of the movie and it makes no sense.
There's also the urgency of the situation.
When imminent doom is approaching, you can either devote your efforts to stopping it, and then ponder the changing course of galactic politics later, or just straight up ponder the changing course of galactic politics while also getting blown up.
When imminent doom is approaching, you can either devote your efforts to stopping it, and then ponder the changing course of galactic politics later, or just straight up ponder the changing course of galactic politics while also getting blown up.
to be fair it cuts from victory right to finding Luke without said pondering the changing course of galactic politics once the urgency is over
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Wow.
Something I don't know about joe?
Trigonometrize.
Member
There's quite the grey area between head canon and consistency with some of this stuff. Yoda teaches Luke all about the FORCE in Empire. All about how it flows through the rocks and the streams and all of that, not about his muscles. He says things like "great warrior? Wars make not one great." His training was entirely about Luke's character, not about his strength and skill. Then in AOTC, Yoda whips out his lightsaber. See, I don't have a giant inherent problem with this as others do, but it's that it's immediately after Dooku says one of the most heinous things in Star Wars, "this battle cannot be decided by our knowledge of the force, but by our skills with the ligthsaber." It's just like... this piece of story is terrible, but at the very least, don't have Yoda, literally the worst character to be anywhere near this line, just accept it and start jumping off the walls. I honestly don't think it's my head canon telling me this is gross. Everything about that scene is awkward when juxtaposed with everything we learned from Yoda in Empire.
excelsiorlef
Member
It was timed with Rey's abduction, Finn's decision (that is your big moment/reaction Finn was ready to run but when he saw what happened he stopped being afraid, face with perhaps his biggest reason to be afair Finn finds the courage to stay and join the fight), Han and Leia's reunion, Poe and FInn's reunion, the successful completion of getting BB-8 back to home base, the return of the recon on the the base (presumably from following th energy trail), Rey's escape, Snoke's decision to launch against Leia after they discovered her base by following her recon ship (a nice little duality there) and Leia finding that out and basically having to go into win now or we all die mode, and then the dogfight, Han's death, the destruction of Starkiller, the return of the heroes, R2-D2's awakening, the full map and bam off to finish what this movie was all about in the first place finding Luke Skywalker The First Order's most feared opponent, and the movie is over.
There just wasn't time, and frankly I think that it drove Finn into action is a pretty awesome reaction given where Finn had been going character wise up until that point,
OricWindstar
Member
I've never though about that line much, given what a distraction the giant hunk of shit that is the entire movie is, but it really is the fucking antithesis of everything Yoda is in ESB.
Pretty sure he's been doing so since forever.
But Yoda wielding a lightsaber doesn't clash at all with what he said. Him having to fight doesn't mean he believes that "war makes him great". He had to fight.
So even if Yoda had to fight using his lightsaber, his line about "war does not make one great" still holds true to him. He did not fight to be famous, or to be great. He fought because it was needed from him to fight. Not to gain fame or power. Besides, before he even got his lightsaber out he did use the Force primarily, in order to defend himself from Dooku's attack, and to save Anakin and Obi Wan from being crushed.
I feel like it runs counter to his whole, "My ally is the Force," speech. "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter." Then Dooku says things can't be solved with the force and Yoda just rolls with it. That never worked for me.
And that's a completely valid complaint. However, Dooku proved to be also very capable on using the Force, so they probably thought using just the Force against each other (Throwing things, deflecting things) would have them fighting to a stalemate.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Wasnt expecting to see Angry Joe hate over here in the OT.. huh.. anyways. The dude is a nice guy, His opinion on the movie was just fine. If anything its other Joe and that dude with them that was being nit picky.. Look at the guy in his non spoiler review. The guy is just so happy about it and playing with his toys and stuff like a big kid. Pretty much exactly how I felt. Anyways, say what you want about his opinions, the personal attacks on the guy around here are sad and immature.
#angryjoedefenceforce
#angryjoedefenceforce
And he's also a "fucking idiot" according to some guy here.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It doesn't seem all that different from the ethos of all eastern martial arts.
ie. Shaolin monks. Sworn to uphold peace, finding greatness through spiritual enlightenment... but able to defend themselves with violent physical combat if they are threatened by outside assailants.
Find fault in Yoda's peaceful spiritual nature and use of physical violence if you must. I totally get it. But it's the same dichotomy that exists in real world human societies that have aspired to peace but can defend themselves if they must.
Agreed. Fisher is fine. And the thing is: She knows that. She knows she's serviceable at best and doesn't try to pass herself off as anything else.
She's the polar opposite of Ford in many ways.
MikeE21286
Member
Too late for me. I actually didn't like the movie. Just saw it yesterday.
I'm not a movie critic or anything so forgive my amateur look at it, but I just feel like barely anything is explained. Who's the hologram guy? Who's the other General with Ren? Who is the First Order? What happened with Han and Leia? Also there was barely any back story on the characters and how they came to where they are. At times it felt hokey and unexplained. For example, when they solved how to bring down Starkiller in the matter of a 2-minute get together. If I didn't understand all Han's jokes about how they brought down the Deathstar before it wouldn't have worked for me at all.
I don't know there were some good parts, but I just felt disappointed. Here's hoping Episode VIII is better
Put yourself in his shoes. If you ever had the chance to completely erase someone from existence who had the name "Dooku" I'm sure your impulses would override your moral compass.
Trigonometrize.
Member
I'm not peeved about the fact that he ends up fighting. I guess I didn't make that clear. The line that Dooku says right before and the actual insane way they had Yoda fight sours the argument that it makes sense for Yoda to not be a lightsaber virgin though. I think people are totally justified in thinking Yoda + lightsaber is not how it should've gone. All things considered.
LookAtMeGo
Member
For sure. Angry Joe reads Gaf and posts on here from time to time. I see people post some idiotic shit and I dont call them fucking idiots but whatever, just my two cents. Say what you want. Guess its just in my nature to stick up for people when they are cool in my books. Dont mind me.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Was any one else hoping Greg Grundberg would end up being Porkins Jr?
OricWindstar
Member
He probably is and I wish him the best, but his reviews just annoy the shit out of me. He's clearly got an audience, though, so more power to him.
I may have made this up, but I think I read he was supposed to die in the movie and he argued against so they kept him around.
Being friends with director/executive producer probably doesn't hurt.
BuggyDClown
Member
The only one I agree with. it was a little ridiculous. Not just because of the way that scene was framed in context, not just because of count dock (ugh) but it just looked silly. Yoda should have a unique fighting style that wasn't absurd looking. there was nothing that felt interesting about him flipping and hopping about.
Should have looked more like this.
If yoda is to wild a saber having him control it with the force floating away form his body would have been a really cool touch. One that would he felt natural to the character and his size as well. Also gives him a unique advantage in fights.
Oh well, missed opportunities and bad ideas plague the PT. Lets not dwell on it. We have a new movie to cherish finally.
Yeah! I saw it for the 6th time today. I think 1-5 it got better each time. This 6th time was finally the one where I was at peak star wars. Will probably see it one last time in a few weeks while it's still in iMax.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Some of it is justified in that Star Wars trilogies have always had first Episodes that tell you very little. If you watch ANH on its own, what is the senate, and what is the Empire? We're never told.
But in the main I agree that a lot of points are conspicuous by their absence. This is a movie that glosses over a whole lot that it probably shouldn't.
I was actively hoping for it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This passive aggressive horseshit right here.
He's kind of a fuckin' idiot. It's not like nice people don't say dumb shit all the time. There's all sorts of kindly, sweater-rocking, candy-having grammas out there who have facebooks full of braindead bullshit, too.
He's not great at thinking. It's not hard to spot.
Anyway, regarding the Yoda conversation here: The out is that Yoda in the Prequels hasn't learned the lessons he needs to learn in order to be the wise hardass he is to Luke.
Which I don't necessarily buy, but that's the out if you want to have it. It's fairly obvious he turned into Yippy the Backflipping Muppet because it was a foregone conclusion the crowd-pop when he started in on Dooku would be HUGE, and not for any real storytelling purpose.
To be honest, if you only have a casual interest in Star Wars, it doesn't matter if its Coruscant, Hosnian Prime, or Earth. The scene has the same effect regardless.
It's the location of the Republic. That's the important info in the scene and it is communicated.
Trigonometrize.
Member
The hologram guy is a mysterious figure that is whispering into Kylo Ren's ear about the dark side. That's all you needed to know for this movie. The other general with Ren is a general with Ren. The First Order emerged from the ashes of the Empire. It was in the crawl. Han and Leia parted ways when their son turned to the dark side. It was hinted at/explained in a conversation they had. "We both had to deal with it in our own way" or something. Rey's backstory is purposely mysterious right now and Finn's is very straightforward: he was raised to be a storm trooper and got cold feet at his first battle.
In the broader context of the OT, Yoda and the Emperor were on opposite ends of the Force spectrum. We never see Yoda with a lightsaber, and hear much of his philosophy, noting specifically that "my ally is the force". The Emperor makes a point of noting that he's unarmed, and then we see how powerful he is even without one. He doesn't need a weapon. Between the two it paints a picture of those who don't need to use lightsabers once they have mastered the Force; they've reached a higher plane. The PT undid that for both of them, and I think it did so for the novelty of seeing Yoda and the Emperor swing lightsabers around.
Even then, TBH, I'd probably be willing to go with it if the execution wasn't so horrible. If Yoda was this graceful, methodical fighter that his demeanor implies. But they turn him into this whirling backflipping green blur and it's just so, so bad.
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