heliosRAzi
Banned
LOL, I want to see this. That's just... wow.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #3) - That's Not How the Force Works
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
- Start date
LOL, I want to see this. That's just... wow.
Stormwatch
Member
So one of my coworkers walked into the office today and started openly talking about spoilers. He's one of those older guys with a hearing aide that doesn't realize how loud he is. The rest of the office is pretty pissed at him today. He first thing he said was "Wow, I was really surprised when Harrison Ford died!"
She's not been to space before but she's definitely been in the Falcon dozens if not hundreds of times. She knows the entire provenance of who stole it from whom. She's intimately familiar with the modifications those owners have made because she's the one who installed most of them.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Proof that there literally is a Defense Force for everything.
It's been ages now. Spoiler morotarium is up imo. If you haven't seen it yet then it's your own fault.
It's been like two weeks. Give it at least a few months before blaming people for not seeing it already. lol
the black pearl
Member
Yeah, got it, my bad. It's a frantically paced movie and I forgot about that.
the black pearl
Member
I want an anthology movie series based on based on bounty hunters.
You have a quote or snap? It's such a silly claim, that battle is so easy to read. There are Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters vs Other.
I loved how ragtag and disjoint the Rebel fleet was. Was thematically wonderful.
The actual dumb thing about ROTJ battle was why the heck did they have a medical frigate. Why do medical frigates even exist. By what mechanism were injured people even getting aboard the medical frigate during the battle?
PhoenixDark
Banned
Saw it tonight with my dad and brother. It was ok. Basically it's what I expected upon learning JJ Abrams was directing it: a film almost entirely built upon nostalgia with little identity of its own. Perhaps this is what we deserve, given that Star Wars fans and nerds have been demanding absolute worship of the OT for decades. Well Abrams remade A New Hope for you, enjoy.
It's not a bad film. It's entertaining on many levels. But at the same time it reminds me of a cover band, or one of those rappers people hype as "90s-like." Imitators can be cool but at some point you hit a critical mass of just too much "hey remember this?" So by the time a small group of rebel (err resistance?) fighters raced against time to destroy a mega weapon planet I had had enough.
I like the new characters at least. Finn seems cool, as does Rey. Poe has a lot of potential, but is probably the least developed of the three. Going into the film I assumed Kylo Ren would be Vader 2.0, and suck. In reality that couldn't be farther from the truth. I thought he was the most interesting new character. He's not a badass, or the type of antagonist you'd expect in a film like this. He's a pretty tortured character who seems to have some potential for moral complexity. He's also somewhat sympathetic, even after killing you know who. Legit interested in seeing how this plays out now that he'll be training with the Big Bad.
Perhaps the biggest problem with the film is the plotting/writing. This is a film that presents one coincidence after another. I can buy some coincidences in film/tv/books but again...by the time Han just so happened to lead the party to a bar where Luke's lightsaber just to happened to be...I was done.
Speaking of plotting...there's very little. Even less worldbuilding. The film feels kind of empty. It shows us stuff we've seen before, with the names changed, but doesn't really build on any of it. There's a Republic, and a Resistance for some reason. The First Order arose from the death of the Empire. Ok...well give me some more info on...oh there is none...well nevermind. At least the prequels gave us some lore and expanded on things hinted at in the OT.
Final verdict: far better than the prequels, and there's nothing as bad as Ewoks here. But ROTJ had multiple iconic, amazing scenes from the opening to the Endor battle to Luke v Vader. I'm not sure this film has a single scene or moment that truly wowed me. There's some cool stuff here, of course. But nothing amazing.
It's not a bad film. It's entertaining on many levels. But at the same time it reminds me of a cover band, or one of those rappers people hype as "90s-like." Imitators can be cool but at some point you hit a critical mass of just too much "hey remember this?" So by the time a small group of rebel (err resistance?) fighters raced against time to destroy a mega weapon planet I had had enough.
I like the new characters at least. Finn seems cool, as does Rey. Poe has a lot of potential, but is probably the least developed of the three. Going into the film I assumed Kylo Ren would be Vader 2.0, and suck. In reality that couldn't be farther from the truth. I thought he was the most interesting new character. He's not a badass, or the type of antagonist you'd expect in a film like this. He's a pretty tortured character who seems to have some potential for moral complexity. He's also somewhat sympathetic, even after killing you know who. Legit interested in seeing how this plays out now that he'll be training with the Big Bad.
Perhaps the biggest problem with the film is the plotting/writing. This is a film that presents one coincidence after another. I can buy some coincidences in film/tv/books but again...by the time Han just so happened to lead the party to a bar where Luke's lightsaber just to happened to be...I was done.
Speaking of plotting...there's very little. Even less worldbuilding. The film feels kind of empty. It shows us stuff we've seen before, with the names changed, but doesn't really build on any of it. There's a Republic, and a Resistance for some reason. The First Order arose from the death of the Empire. Ok...well give me some more info on...oh there is none...well nevermind. At least the prequels gave us some lore and expanded on things hinted at in the OT.
Final verdict: far better than the prequels, and there's nothing as bad as Ewoks here. But ROTJ had multiple iconic, amazing scenes from the opening to the Endor battle to Luke v Vader. I'm not sure this film has a single scene or moment that truly wowed me. There's some cool stuff here, of course. But nothing amazing.
prag16
Banned
This has probably been covered, but has there been any definitive info on how in the ever living hell they could see Hosnian Prime exploding from outside Maz's castle?
Even if it was in the same system, seeing what they saw the way they saw it could have been difficult in broad daylight. But that's at least remotely plausible even if sort of odd that this pirate stronghold would be next door to the capitol.
OR, even worse, is Hosnian Prime light years away in some other system, but J.J. made it visible in the sky for our heroes to see just because it looked cool, or as an incredibly weak plot device of some kind?
Loved the movie, but almost everything about the concept of Starkiller was easily the weakest part for me, with this particular nitpick detailed above being the weakest.
Even if it was in the same system, seeing what they saw the way they saw it could have been difficult in broad daylight. But that's at least remotely plausible even if sort of odd that this pirate stronghold would be next door to the capitol.
OR, even worse, is Hosnian Prime light years away in some other system, but J.J. made it visible in the sky for our heroes to see just because it looked cool, or as an incredibly weak plot device of some kind?
Loved the movie, but almost everything about the concept of Starkiller was easily the weakest part for me, with this particular nitpick detailed above being the weakest.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's most definitely this.
About my thoughts as well. At first I thought it might tie for my second favorite movie. Then it slipped to being just above RotJ, but now I think it's sits fourth, above Revenge.
I think the coincidences were by far the hardest pill to swallow. Not all the fantastic feats that people drudge up to belittle Rey. It was the plot coincidences that kept putting the characters at these crossroads. The force works in mysterious ways is fine, but it can't be you're only crutch. Especially when the world in SW has proved that it takes more political prowess to orchestrate things than it does the force itself.
Discotheque
Banned
I think that's my biggest qualm with folks who complain the plot structure is too similar to ANH. If you look exclusively at the broader strokes then yeah, they're pretty similar, but while the main focus on ANH's climax was destroying the Death Star, here the Starkiller is more of a backstage for the Kylo Ren-Han Solo-Rey-Finn scenes to take place. I feel like the "it's a remake" criticism in general is too overstated and didn't feel like the film lacked its own identity. I rewatched ANH four days ago and TFA today and they absolutely did not feel like the same movie to me.
Also, the supposed overreliance on nostalgia. I have absolutely no nostalgia for OT Star Wars and barely qualified myself as a fan of the franchise just a few weeks ago but TFA is still my favorite movie of the year by a fair margin.
Your other criticisms are fair enough.
They did so well with introducing new and interesting aliens and creatures in this movie but completely dropped the ball with spaceships and vehicles by playing it way too safe. Like, do you wanna NOT sell toys? There were some pretty cool Tie variants and resistance fighters in the art book that never showed up in the movie.
I really didn't like how they made the galaxy seem small in TFA. Where is the Starkiller base firing from? How far from the Hosnian system was it, and where was that in relation to where Han and company were? It all felt so close together, but then they also showed Rey making her "journey" to Luke in 15 seconds, without even leaving her seat.
In ANH the Falcon is often on auto pilot while everyone has to sit back and wait to get somewhere; it made space feel like a vast place. A lot of the small stuff doesn't bug me in TFA, but that really does.
whiteninja
Member
Was the star killer gonna exhaust that star on its second use (unless there were test firings before)?
Unless the star somehow comes back or they have some way of moving the whole planet to another star system then I don't see how useful that would be.
Unless the star somehow comes back or they have some way of moving the whole planet to another star system then I don't see how useful that would be.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It's not that YOU felt nostalgic, it's that the films WANTS you to feel nostalgic.
The details between ANH and TFA may differ, but the broad strokes just gives it an atmosphere of "been there, done that." Even the climactic battle between Kylo-Rey/Finn on Death Star 3 reminds us of the confrontation between Luke and Vader on Death Star 2.
prag16
Banned
If so that may be one of the the most egregious liberties I've ever seen taken in a film.
I know star wars doesn't really uphold realistic science and physics, but this would be a new low.
(Never mind the numerous other issues with Starkiller.) Worst super weapon ever.
The more I've though about it, the rest of my "issues" were very minor it easily hand waved. Starkiller though, just all kinds of terrible. In execution if not concept.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Well, the last time I saw it I made a serious effort to temporarily delete the word 'why' from my vocabulary and it did wonders.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Second viewing tonight, and I still got choked up when Rey got the Saber.
I was surprised at how pissed Ren was that there was a girl involved in BB8s escape. He had already raged that Finn helped and another person being involved doesn't change enough for him to force grab the messenger. Maybe he does have an idea about who she is...
The scene where Ren tried to mind probe Rey was amazing. Not a word, but their expressions perfectly display Rey gaining confidence and Ren losing his.
I think I heard BB8 purr!
I was surprised at how pissed Ren was that there was a girl involved in BB8s escape. He had already raged that Finn helped and another person being involved doesn't change enough for him to force grab the messenger. Maybe he does have an idea about who she is...
The scene where Ren tried to mind probe Rey was amazing. Not a word, but their expressions perfectly display Rey gaining confidence and Ren losing his.
I think I heard BB8 purr!
Randolph Freelander
Member
And also because Y-Wings were obsolete when the Rebel Alliance was using them 30 years ago.
So? If the movie wants to throw in some nostalgia for the old fans, there's nothing wrong with that. As long as it stands on its own and doesn't just try to make its way through entirely out of nostalgia. My complaint with the "it relies on nostalgia" line of thinking is when people imply that nostalgia is the major reason why people liked the movie.
Luke vs Vader 2 didn't even cross my mind both times I watched the Ren vs Finn/Rey fight. I really don't see many similarities between them besides maybe a superficial "Rey curbstomps Ren at the end just like Luke does against Vader" which is a fairly weak similarity since it's one of the most common tropes in storytelling.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
What if Kylo Ren worshiped his Grandmother instead?
jimmypython
Member
I think rage is a good representation of the dark side of the force...
and even better, the deception when he kills his father...
What if Kylo Ren worshiped his Grandmother instead?
Hey it's Keira Knightley
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Its called the Force, not coincidence.
What were the chances of droids finding their way to Luke on a big desert planet, and that he would know who ben kenobi was, but would unknowling be the key to defeating the very same death star that the droid is carrying files on. And he happens to be the main villian's son and the princess's brother.
According to gaf, it's ok for any crazy force power to exist in TFA as long as it originated or was performed in the OT.
The force is all about destiny and fate and bringing people together.
Goooood.... Give in to the fate.
Spectral Glider
Member
No it doesn't, not for me anyway. Vader was established as the bad ass and Luke was his son trying to redeem him. Ren is showed as angry, flawed and unsure. And his relationship to Rey and Finn is unknown at this point, if there is any. The stakes aren't the same and they shouldn't be as this is the first of a new trilogy, the other being an ending. I thoroughly enjoyed their fight almost as much as Luke's against Vader. And, their fight is infinitely better than any prequel saber battle as there is actual weight to the movements and weapon strikes instead of just limitless jumping, posing and acrobatics.
That could have been revealed to her purely through the force vision after touching Luke's saber. Yoda had visions of things he had never encountered.
Yea. Ren says, "You imagine an ocean. I see the island." That line is probably my favorite in the film, as it also doubles as a metaphor for the paths they are choosing. Rey's world is opening up to greater possibilities; Ren's is pushing into greater isolation.
This is one of the worst things about the movie. If nothing else, I've always looked forward to new and interesting ship designs in the movies. Force Awakens disappointed me in that regard. I honestly hope we see a bunch of new ships in the next two films. I'm not saying get rid of them altogether, but let this movie be the last time we see X-wings and TIEs in such prominence in the sequel trilogy. We're probably going to see them again in the spinoffs like Rogue One anyways.
Even ANH had Y-Wing fighters.
And yet there is like 15 different types of storm trooper and first order pilots. 16 if you count TR-8R separate.
The One and Done
Member
What if Kylo Ren worshiped his Grandmother instead?
Muerto.
QuantumZebra
Member
well played
UnemployedVillain
Member
I posted this in the Lucas thread, but I've found that an interesting (although totally bullshit, but fun) way to compare TPM and TFA in term of "originality" is by what the extended universe and other non-movie properties (novels, cartoons, videogames) can use from each movie that it didn't have before
TPM brought:
* The idea of Sith
* Different configurations for lightsabers
* The Jedi council and how they operated
* Podracing
TFA brought:
* Stormtroopers create through kidnapping/indoctrination
* A weapon other than a blaster for Storm Troopers
I mean we have the Knights of Ren and Snoke, which we'll learn more about, but until then they're simply another fringe group of Dark Side users which we've seen in numerous different properties (Snoke is probably important thought)
TPM brought:
* The idea of Sith
* Different configurations for lightsabers
* The Jedi council and how they operated
* Podracing
TFA brought:
* Stormtroopers create through kidnapping/indoctrination
* A weapon other than a blaster for Storm Troopers
I mean we have the Knights of Ren and Snoke, which we'll learn more about, but until then they're simply another fringe group of Dark Side users which we've seen in numerous different properties (Snoke is probably important thought)
DragonSworne
Banned
You know what? Rey is obviously Luke's daugther, but who is the mother? I don't think there is one. We have another immaculate conception. The force got Luke pregnant.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I don't see it. The way he actually says it is quite different.
Confrontation
Member
When the ground split between Rey and Ren, it should've been the other way around. Ren should've been owning Rey and at the moment he would finish her off, the split would happen. She gets training, comes back and fucks him up.
QuantumZebra
Member
Don't play with my heart like that.
DragonSworne
Banned
I think we will see Rey continue to pwn Ren. Ren is going to be a miserable pitiful mess by movie 3. He's going to be so pathetic that we'll all feel sorry for the scrub.
There will be no redemption for Kylo Ren.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Liked it as a remake, but this planet size weapon that you can see working from across light years of space is orders of magnitude worse than midichlorians. Hell, in my eyes it may as well lose the right to be called science fiction.
Just finished watching Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and it made me realize that though we've had acrobatic lightsaber fights (TPM) and suspenseful lightsaber fights (ESB), and I think we've yet to actually see an elegant lightsaber fight.
Civilized weapon my ass, Obi.
Civilized weapon my ass, Obi.
The Real Napsta
Member
Just got home from the movie.
I have a few questions:
Does Finn have force powers?
How terrible is Ren? He couldn't beat two people that never touched a lightsaber before?
I have a few questions:
Does Finn have force powers?
How terrible is Ren? He couldn't beat two people that never touched a lightsaber before?
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