The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
poodaddy
Member
I know I'm a fighting game scrub nowadays because I used to school grown ass men when I was a wee lad on Street Fighter Alpha 1 in arcades back in the day and now the only person I can clean house with online in Persona 4 Arena is Kanji, and he basically doesn't count as he's kinda god mode. As someone who's been playing fighting games for about 23 years now, I can honestly say that the motivation and determination has dwindled with age and kids and what not, but the will has really not died at all. I still really want to play fighting games, so much so that I always purchase pretty much everyone of them; it's just I don't have anyone to play with anymore and I don't really enjoy online matches. My wife used to play me all the time but now she won't because she gets really salty, and if I let her win to try to avoid the salt and keep her playing then she gets even more mad because she can tell if I let her win. I don't know man....the only serious fighting game players I have around here are just Smash players; and while I love Smash, I lost my virginity to Street Fighter and it'll always be my true flame, but I just don't have anyone to play with anymore. It's a bummer :/.
Was the stream archived on your channel?
I look forward to your write up.
Edit: I found the YouTube links.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Focusing in general should be good practice for parrying. Not the timing but the physical act of hitting those two buttons.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
This is a cool initiative. I hope it works out.
For what it's worth, juggling genres is a good idea. The types of games you brought up are indeed very well suited to arcade stick play and I'm still carrying that (basic) muscle memory from the SFV beta.This ain't my stick.I have to buy my own. When I get mine I'm going to be playing 2d shooters, beat em up, and platformers in tandem with my fighters to speed up getting used to it.
TacosNSalsa
Member
Okay this is going to be quick and dirty so please bear with me . I will only be using USFIV as the example as it's the only game I can even begin to give advise on ...
Meaty : Hitting your opponent with the last couple of active frames of a move. Ex: Knocking someone down and then timing a fireball so they actually stand up INTO the move.
Priorty Linking (P-Linking , Plinking) : SF4 priortizes button press based on strength. So pressing MP and HP at the same time will ALWAYS get you a HP. Plinking is hitting HP and then immediately hitting MP after. In trainging mode with input display on you will see the HP input twice even though you only pressed it once. What this does is input HP on two seperate frames essentially doubling your chances of hitting a tight link. This cannot be done with individual presses ...think of tapping your fingers on a desk and you have the idea.
Option Select(OS): Doing two moves at the same time or in very quick succesion and letting the game engine decide what will come out based on the situation. Ex: Holding down back and inputing the throw command. If you're with in grab range you will tech their throw , if they are further out and try to walk towards you a cr.LK will come out and hit them if they block all that comes out is a cr.LK. This is known as crouch teching . This (and I mean crouch teching specifically and not OS in general) is generally frowned upon at higher levels and if a competent player notices you mashing it THEY WILL BLOW DIS SHIT UP!!! There are quite a few others this is just the most common example I've run into .
Frame trap: While more complex it is essentially just getting your opponent to stop blocking . Ex: Ryu's cr.MPx2 . There is a 2 frame gap there that allows an opponent to stop blocking but not letting anything actually come out (barring a few examples) . This will normally result in a counter hit and can lead to big damage. This does not work on moves that have invicibilty frames like a dragon punch or comes out exteremely fast like a spinning pile driver or a demon. Great way to blow up crouch teching
Okizeme: Just a funky way of saying wake up game. What do you do when your opponent is getting up of the ground. Also known as the okey doke
Yomi: Just the mind game that goes on as the game progresses.
Salty: Mike Ross on Excellent adventures,...
IF I missed anything or made a mistake anywhere please let me know .
Edit:When I said frowned upon I meant crouch teching SPECIFICALLY . OSing in general is fine by most standards
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Okizeme's short form is oki as well. I will add that description of terms to the OP.
I don't get the 'frowned upon at higher levels' comment... OSing is very important at high level play (even though you can counter some option selects if you know your opponent is doing them).
I think rather than a frame trap being 'a way to get your opponent to stop blocking' it's a way to get your opponent to stop mashing. If you're opponent is just sitting there doing nothing but blocking, there's no need to frame trap. Frame traps are to punish people mashing quick attacks, mashing throw, etc.
TacosNSalsa
Member
Opps sorry!! the Frowned upon thing was supposed to be for crouch teching specifically ...I didn't mean for OSing in general ..will edit ..
Frame traps are great ways to get someone to hit a button. In some cases you want them to mash to get the counter hit..case in point Akuma doing cr.MP walk foward a step cr.MP again..that normally gets people to tech and you get the counter hit ...Its good for both in my opinion.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Give another OS example besides teching for our gentle readers. Also meaty is a type of oki.
TacosNSalsa
Member
Another example . ..Jump in with roundhouse and input tatsu close to the ground. If they block nothing happens they block the jump kick and you land fine . If they back dash properly the jump kick will wiff and the tatsu will come out the instant it's possible and catch them on their dash recovery frames..
The meaty example I gave is a type of oki..I guess you can say all meatys are okis but not all okis are meaty?
Meaty is not OS
OS is simply a loaded command which will yield different results depending on the situation
For example, in VF you can OS any sabaki with a throw escape
say Pai is at frame disadvantage
Pai player enters 1P+K,6P+G
the opponent uses a mid, like an elbow
1P+K sabaki reverses the mid, opponent takes damage
say Pai is at frame disadvantage again
Pai player enters 1P+K,6P+G
the opponent does a forward throw
6P+G throw escape breaks throw attempt, Pai takes no damage and is at +6 frame advantage
in both scenarios the Pai player enters the same command, but depending on the situation, the outcome is different.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I meant meaty is an oki.
Another example:
In marvel, you can OS throws with dashes by plinking H into one or more other attack buttons a frame later. If you are near enough to an opponent and they're in a throwable state, you throw them, otherwise you get a dash. Dashes can be cancelled into jumps, so you can hold up back immediately after the OS and you will be able to block instantly, which adds another layer when using this OS defensively. Offensively, you can attempt a throw on the ground with the plink dash OS, hold up forward, and then attempt an air throw, so if someone evaded your ground throw attempt by jumping, you'll grab them out of the air. The air grab attempt can be OSed with an air dash or something (if your character has one), or j.H (or any air command normal involving H). This allows a character like Vergil to attempt a ground throw, immediately attempt an air throw afterwards (which is good because a common reason your ground throw missed was because they jumped away), and then if they've out of air throw range, you get helm breaker, which is a ridiculously dominant air normal.
the only time a meaty is an OS is if it doesn't come out when it won't hit the opponent as a meaty, say if the opponent stays down for longer. dunno if theres something like that in street fighter as i havent touched it in years. OS is simply one input, varying situational output.
/edit/ misread "meaty as an oki"
TacosNSalsa
Member
I kind of can be used as an OS to... Ex. You knock down Rose..as Rose players tend to back dash but you're not sure and dont want to risk Ryu's slow ass sweep. So you ttime a meaty jab and QUICKLY follow up with a sweep input. If she wakes up and blocks the only the jab comes out because you cannot chain jab into roundhouse. If she back dashes you can see the jab come out and recover and then sweep right after it hopefully catching her...
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
That's not a true OS imo, similar though
Woody Invincible
Banned
This is so true. Only in the past few days, have I finally preferred stick to pad.
TacosNSalsa
Member
Why not? Depending on the conditions one two things will happen based on my inputs. Isn't that an OS?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
While yes, it paints the term too wide. Anything can be an os with those rules and the term isn't that loose. SF4 commentary/players overused the term. Everything became option selects
But going by that it could be.
My reason though is that too much time passes between the two inputs
an os is literally you doing multiple commands at once or a few frames apart so that majorly different outcomes can happen at the same exaact time
There is a true OS for the situation he described, just time a meaty on their wake up then press lp/lk + hk afterwards. If they backdash your meaty they get swept, if not the lp/lk comes out.
TacosNSalsa
Member
Okay..I think this is what I was trying to get across but I didn't put in the extra lp/lk in put along with the sweep..this is why i don't try to mentor anyone ..I'm terrible at explaining things ..
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
This is indeed
zedreamcast
Member
Thanks for the feedback guys, ive been thinking of changing to someone else just cause ive been having so much trouble with the c.mk to fireball.
Marvel
could never
As a fellow new stick user who just can't get used to it. What is it you find good about it now over the pad? can't help but feel myself on pad lol
Don't forget safe jumps. If opponent blocks you get a block or hit if he didn't block, if opponent does an invincible move like DP you whiff and recover before you get hit and are able to block it.
It's worth pointing out though that high level SF4 is filled with viable option selects.
CountBlack
Member
Jab+Sweep is an OS.
this is the exact same thing that he described except he gave an example with Rose lol
You're fine with the explanations/examples. At least I understood what you meant.
ShinMaruku
Member
A huge chunk of people overusing that term are not the high level.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
CountBlack
Member
Are you talking about this post being very different than the Rose one? Because they're both saying the same thing except one is more informative than the other
What if the OS was due to the timing differences between the jab whiffing and the jab hitting due to the hitstop of the move? Then it would still be an OS. :x (Kind of silly in this example, since doing 2LP, 2LP+HK is much more consistent.)
I wonder if it would be worth having a resource that just covered various OSs in different games, as they tend to be some of the most obsfucated things in fighting games while also being very important in competitive play. I think it could help knowing that even if you're just watching matches, since a lot of them aren't very apparent. Hell, something like BB seemed completely nonsensical to me even just watching it until I found out about all of the various barrier-related OSs. Now it's less of an unreadable mess. :V
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
This vid pretty much sums my issue with the sf4 use of the term option select.
crouch tech good
almost everything else "eh?"
Term is too broad these days.
stn
Member
IMO, just spend the time to grind it out. Get used to throwing fireballs with half-circle-forward, it will allow you to walk in any direction and get cr. mk xx fireball without getting a DP randomly. If you can't perform this technique then you won't be able to learn other characters, anyway. Its the most basic of basic.
FadedRevolution
Member
Let me put my info down I got PC. Just add me and I'm willing to play whatever honestly.
Steam: FadedRevolution
SFV
Guilty Gear XRD
KI
Ultra SF4
TVC
CVS2
MVC2
MVC1
Marvel Super Heroes
Garou
KOF 13
KOF 98 Ultimate Match
KOF 2002 Unlimited Match
Want to focus on SF5 and KI the most to get better at those. Also want to learn Guilty Gear as well. Hopefully Revelator comes out to PC fairly quickly.
Steam: FadedRevolution
SFV
Guilty Gear XRD
KI
Ultra SF4
TVC
CVS2
MVC2
MVC1
Marvel Super Heroes
Garou
KOF 13
KOF 98 Ultimate Match
KOF 2002 Unlimited Match
Want to focus on SF5 and KI the most to get better at those. Also want to learn Guilty Gear as well. Hopefully Revelator comes out to PC fairly quickly.
zedreamcast
Member
Cindi Mayweather
Member
What punch are you using to shoot an fb after cr mk? It should be mp.
For Evil Ryu it's usually lp.
zedreamcast
Member
Ive been using HP
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Ah.
This is the perfect opportunity to explain this. Please explain to him why you stick to specific strengths, face?
Use hp for blockstrings and lp for combos.
The lp version gives more frame advantage.
Ah.
This is the perfect opportunity to explain this. Please explain to him why you stick to specific strengths, face?
The lp version gives more frame advantage.
zedreamcast
Member
But does that help it come out instead of axe kick? Im mainly using it for blockstrings
Nope, just general knowledge.
Have you tried buffering the qcf motion during the cr. mk animation?
zedreamcast
Member
I dont think i have ive been pressing MK at down back then going from down, down forward, and forward then punch
Cindi Mayweather
Member
That is what you should be doing: buffering.
Rice-Eater
Member
Jab fireball doesn't have more frame advantage, but it's slower so it hits a little later compared to the fierce version. This usually only happens when you hit the cr. MK near max distance. Since Evil Ryu will recover in the same time regardless of which fireball he throws then he'll have more frame advantage with the slower fireball at near max range. If you do cr. MK, fireball, FADC, cr. MK at point blank range I think that's a 1f link. I don't know what the frame advantage is at near max range but it's a lot easier.
Down back* > forward is a shortcut for half circle forward in sf4, don't do the motion too fast or you'll probably get an axe kick when you release mk.
Yeah the fireball doesn't have more frame advantage, it's just cause of the way it hits. I should've been clearer on that(english is hard and I'm lazy).
Thanks for the explanation.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
SFV should have an option to turn off short cuts. Fuck off with that shit, Capcom.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
SFIV will help with SFV if you're aware of what you're doing and not relying on SFIV game ticks and habits like back dash invincibility, or focus. The transition will be smooth for people who nail the game fundamentals rather than system reliance. Fundamentals transfer from game to game. Systems don't.
I think your more in your face style absent fireball zoning would be more at home with Ken. Give him a shot?