The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master
- Thread starter Cindi Mayweather
- Start date
Nonono, I mean I can do parts of combos in any mission mode up to a point where it becomes impossible to hit these things and it's just repeating it until it's faster/slower/whatever and I never get the entire thing done. I just give up on mission modes like that, it's not fun sitting there trying to do combos that probably won't be done in actual matches.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Hey Pat! Plan on watching after Guilty Gear!
Couldn't land a single combo I practiced in training in the heat of battle. I think that's enough training for now though. I haven't fought in two days until tonight.Time to go fight more until I get I get a better handle on the game system and keeping people out. Fucking Chipp. On the bright side, he's great for practicing your anti-air.
These won't be done in matches? A lot of I-No's are pretty practical. And many teach how you to play the character and take advantage of normals. Honestly, XRD has one of the best challenge modes I've seen in a fighting game.
Couldn't land a single combo I practiced in training in the heat of battle. I think that's enough training for now though. I haven't fought in two days until tonight.Time to go fight more until I get I get a better handle on the game system and keeping people out. Fucking Chipp. On the bright side, he's great for practicing your anti-air.
These won't be done in matches? A lot of I-No's are pretty practical. And many teach how you to play the character and take advantage of normals. Honestly, XRD has one of the best challenge modes I've seen in a fighting game.
You can't beat your father, it is known.
Don't know much about this match up, but...
Beak Driver out reach all of Ky's moves and negate his projectile, so Beak Driver's range should be advantageous for you.
Kys can get predictable with their fireballs, pretty sure Sin can punish all none YRCed Ky's fireballs with R.T.L.
Ky wins the SF battle of footsies and spacing against most characters, you don't want to play that game with him. Maybe use Leap to go over ground fireballs and Elk Hunt to go under air fireballs, that and don't use Beak Driver as just a poke, every blocked Sin special is an attempt to start charging in, be aggressive in you approaches.
Yep, Xrd's combo missions are way more useful than SFIV's and especially KoFXIII's which is more of a "combo challenge" mode than a mean to introduce you to the characters. I-No and Millia challenges even go over some oki setup combos, of course you do get some useless "challenge combos" there too though.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Actually, in terms of improvement I think this is the period where I should be watching high level to see what they're doing and what I'm not.
Xrd has a handy feature that allows you to see recorded matches of the best players who play your character. Incredible.
Xrd has a handy feature that allows you to see recorded matches of the best players who play your character. Incredible.
pattheflip
Neo Member
aw, thanks!
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Yeah, I'm not sure how teaching you how to YRC is "useless in a fight". Haha. It's pretty excellent. When does it get into the wakeup game? I can't wait for that. I should just finish it.
If you can pick on up, on Wednesay, January 6, the HRAP Kai will be $100 at Fry's electronics.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
edit: wrong video
There are some combos that end with Note oki set ups. Millia get way more "oki training" though, deservingly so.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
There are some combos that end with Note oki set ups. Millia get way more "oki training" though, deservingly so.
There's one challenge with a note at the end that I've done. I can assume that's one of them. It's a 6P combo and it seems really useful for general pressure. Shame I can do it in training but when I fight my brain just farts over and over. Why, brain?!
There are some combos that end with Note oki set ups. Millia get way more "oki training" though, deservingly so.
I dunno- they're both oki monsters
Confirming into a proper combo after a oki set up with I-No isn't much different than confirming into the same combo without Note oki, so combos you're taught that start with hover dash can count as oki training I guess. With Millia, you need more specific stuff to combo after Tandem Top(ring) oki, so a lot of her challenges start with setting up TT first.I dunno- they're both oki monsters
Cindi Mayweather
Member
I'm listening now as I do my art for the night and you're on the dot so far. One thing to consider is that with fighting games against a human, the only person to blame is yourself if you lose. Not the AI, not a team mate, not anything. You could say lag, and maybe it's right, but deep down in our heart of hearts we know we would have lost anyways. That bothers people. So people ask how they can get better and they realize that there's no quick fix to getting better and their skills will continuously be tested even if they reached the highest level. After that, they give up. For some people, that's work. And fighting games ARE work, so it's pretty understandable. Tonight I tried to pull off a yellow roman cancel combo in Guilty Gear for 30 or 20 minutes on one side. But I didn't stop there. I immediately repeated the challenge multiple times to prove to myself I got it. Once I got it, I did it it on the other side multiple times for 5 minutes. But people don't want to do that when they play video games. To them it's the equivalent of going to the gym and doing a full body workout except in video game form.
Essentially: fighting games are too hard for most. The first step to learning a fighting game is admitting to yourself that you're fucking shit at them and most people don't want to admit they're awful at something and self critique themselves.The most we can do is offer as open a community as possible to make it so that people know that people are willing to teach if they're willing to learn, which is exactly why I made this thread, and why I'm pretty positive you made your book. I think if we can make learning fighting games more social and more fun like in this thread, people will start sticking around. That's just being extremely hopeful, however. But even then, fighting games will prove that they're just not for everybody.
edit: You eventually go into this. LOL, never mind.
Marvel
could never
Yes, workworkwork.
Out of all the FG's I play MKX is my best skill level wise. I've put in god knows how many hours into practice mode there and it paid off. The sad part of mk is that no matter how good your timing and execution is, in most matchups online the input delay from the ass netcode will scupper your hard work.
Out of all the FG's I play MKX is my best skill level wise. I've put in god knows how many hours into practice mode there and it paid off. The sad part of mk is that no matter how good your timing and execution is, in most matchups online the input delay from the ass netcode will scupper your hard work.
lucebuce12
Member
Agreed. I was so looking forward to MKX but the shitty netcode combined with the stupid region-locking just made sure I was not gonna play this game long-term.
castaction
Member
I love mkx been but reading your guy saying the netcode is horrible 
i wanted to tried online this weekeend
i wanted to tried online this weekeend
Marvel
could never
Try it dude, not every single game is laggy but it is there and you will experience it. Such a great game it's totally worth getting into. Sometimes lag can cost you a combo but then it'll smooth out for the rest of the match. It's a mixed bag.I love mkx been but reading your guy saying the netcode is horrible
If the character select screen is sluggish, gtfo there though lol
My advice would be to hit a room, that way you can pick a green ping and hope for the best. Ranked you can back out of yellow and red pings but if you're new to mk I wouldn't advise it as that's where the killers are. With a room you can start up a match with someone of similar skill and play endless.
castaction
Member
Ah yeah cool but right now i can play on normal on the tower and defeat shinnok with ease
I've decided I'm going to stick with Balrog for the last month of SF4. I feel he fits my play style the best. I also want to improve my charge characters overall. Here's a match I had against another Bison. Was able to win a round and was happy that I got a couple of combos in there. My biggest weakness right now (that is shown at the end of this match) is that I raw headbutt too much fishing for the ultra. So I've been working on doing the jab, short, headbutt combo. I think once I get this down consistently, my Rog will definitely improve.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIHIC1c_vlI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIHIC1c_vlI
CountBlack
Member
Thanks for the help. I pretty much only put time into learning the Sol matchup and don't really know what to do against every other character lol
Potemkin bus tours are free to ride
petran79
Banned
It is difficult to get used to that kind of mindset when for over 25 years fighting games were all about coin munching, music, story mode, cool character design etc This is important for marketing and sales too, but not for promoting the proper way to play the game.
Tournament scenes were unheard off. It has only been a few years when online streams, online play and tournaments really took off and got so popular.
At least in FPS there are both the competitive FPS that have a long tradition and the simpler story mode based FPS.
Perhaps a barebones fighting game focusing just on training, challenges and tutorials, VS and online play would be better.
I'm on steam aswell but can't find you there either
Also got it on PS4 if you wanna play there
Sent request
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Geminosity
Member
Not sure in regards to USFIV but it was something I used to abuse myself back in Soul Calibur. I'd often stand just outside of people's attack ranges and not block so I could punish them for swinging, knowing that holding 'guard' would sometime seem to extend my hurtbox forward a bit. "KNOW YOUR RANGE!" became a kind of catchphrase I'd cackle at people when they'd whiff by a few pixels and get a sword in the face for their troubles
Holy Order Sol
Member
Especially relevant when the move you're trying to use in order to whiff punish is a crouching move. It's easy to press downback rather than down out of habit in those situations.
It's difficult , but it's one of the most important parts of defense. Since evasion lets you create more opportunities than blocking. It's easiest to see it illustrated in MvC3 where crisp movement gives a huge advantage. Evading an opponent will almost always leave you in a more advantageous position than blocking - either in terms of not being at a frame disadvantage, having to take chip or deal with pressure for extended periods. It just requires really good movement and use of tools to get it down so it's more difficult to get down.
It requires a lot of patience, both learning spacing and using movement over blocking in a match.. Probably the most used example of movement over blocking in defense you'll see is in and out movement where someone will walk/dash up and then go in the opposite direction to bait out an unsafe move.
If you can move out of the way it's most likely going to be better than blocking.
too bad theseks will never read this post
Cindi Mayweather
Member
The footsies handbook lists is as Rule 22. This was a sample for it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIfr1jc4ezA#t=1m44s
petran79
Banned
if you use Aoi in VF3-5 you should not block anyway
Cindi Mayweather
Member
How can I implement this into my game? I watch the example in the footsies handbook and I struggle seeing how I can pull it off.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Me. I'll be doing it with a brand new stick and I'm a pad player so I know I'll lose but I'll do my best!
How do we sign up?
I had movement based defense explained to me in this way.
1. Fundamentals
- Patience. The number one reason people get clipped during a match is because they can't wait for their opportunity and try to attack in a bad situation. This can be solved by recognizing what's safe and what's not safe.
- Adaptability. No one is going to play the same as someone else. Let's use Dhalsim as an example, while a hyper defensive Dhalsim is normal (Ex: Sabin or F. Champ) you'll eventually run into a mix-up heavy one. This means you will have to change your plan. You have to recognize how they're using their toolset in the first round. If you're clueless spend this time gathering data on what they do. The longer the round lasts the more info you can gather. Even if you have to lose a few games in a set figuring out your opponents game plan will help in the match and in the future against similar players.
- Movement. How your character walks and dashes as well as moves that move them and shift their hurtbox are going to be the key to more advanced defense. Depending on who you play you may have tons of options or only a few, but every character will be able to utilize movement for better defense to a degree. A lot of this is just entering training mode or watching videos to see what you can do against characters/attacks that trouble you. For example, record Ryu doing cr. Mk and see the exact space where it will whiff against you and what you have that goes over/around it.
* You'll want to make sure you move fluidly and can react quickly/have good predictions. Poor movement can get you killed though so expect to lose a lot while learning this. Predictions come from reading your opponent mostly.
2. Applying it in game.
- In and out movement. It's more than just walking in and out. There's the whole whiffing move intentionally to bait the opponent and hitting them for frame advantage/disadvantage thing as well. Generally you apply pressure when safe and back off when you're not. You can mix it up to add to all the mind game levels, but generally just go for the safest options to let your opponent hang themselves. Walk up jab, walk up jab then walk backward is a classic.
- Recognize the situation. If you're against a Gief with full super and full ultra in the corner you should play differently than you would against a meterless Makoto mid-screen. It's simple, but it's easy to lose track of resources and position and lose because of it. What's safe and unsafe will change dramatically with resources and position. And when blocking you should be able to recognize when your opponents turn is over and you can move to reset the situation to a neutral or favorable position for yourself.
- Play clean. Don't do anything more than you need to and always go for the safest option. It's the Floyd Mayweather gameplan. If you can win with just jabs go for it. Only do more if you need to. Styling is fun, but style won't get you as many wins as safety. Learn your dash and attack ranges so you know what your safest and best options are at the moment.
3.
- minimize risk. This goes with the 2 section. The less your risk you take to win the better. It's generally a slower and less damaging route than other play styles. On the plus side, it's a lot more stable and you'll be able to play a less risky game style against more opponents. Even players who are known for being nutty lay on tons of risk-less/minimal risk pressure in their gameplay.
- Movement over blocking. Blocking generally leaves you in a bad place against intermediate and higher opponents. Whether it's guessing between overhead,low or throw , a frametrap or eating tons of chip blocking can lead to you being in a bad scenario. If you can evade go for it.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
Fantastic post. Continuing from that line of discussion, since it's in the same family, let's talk about mentalities surrounding info gathering:
How does everyone here do it and what are techniques to increase you skill with it?
How does everyone here do it and what are techniques to increase you skill with it?
ShinMaruku
Member
A great example of how certain charact'er unique attack animations can change the match up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3-n4ZtUxs
Count the counter hits and high counter throws I get due to Misty's slight ducking and lifting off the ground of her moves. It's why a 3d fighting game's move list can be so large and varied.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly3-n4ZtUxs
Count the counter hits and high counter throws I get due to Misty's slight ducking and lifting off the ground of her moves. It's why a 3d fighting game's move list can be so large and varied.
Jaded Alyx
Member
They do indeed.
Great post.
Sure.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
When we do tournaments, make a separate thread. We don't want this thread to be sent to the community forum. Having tourneys and streaming it and using this thread as a base for discussion and shit talk while we do the tourney will just get this sent to the community forum. This thread wouldn't work if people didn't regularly see it where people are invited to come participate in our great experiment of trying to get better at fighting games. For that reason, I want to keep this thread for gameplay analysis and critique and getting better. If we turn it into an official ScrubGaf thing, that makes us a community, and will be pushed into the community forum, where we will be irrelevant and people like Pat or even some other knowledgeable fighting game vets will miss it, which will signal thread death.
So any time we do something like this, we need to be as transparent as possible, and keep this thread to as much a gameplay focus as possible so we aren't relegated.
So any time we do something like this, we need to be as transparent as possible, and keep this thread to as much a gameplay focus as possible so we aren't relegated.
Schedule in the thread. From there we will do an invite time thing through steam
Jaded Alyx
Member
Heh...'ScrubGAF'
How about making a Group on Steam for the PC players here? Will be easier to find one another and setup matches/lobbies. If you join the Group Chat room when playing a fighting game, everyone else in there can see who's playing what.
How about making a Group on Steam for the PC players here? Will be easier to find one another and setup matches/lobbies. If you join the Group Chat room when playing a fighting game, everyone else in there can see who's playing what.