A Bluetooth adapter (vs a lightning to aux adapter) would maintain your charging capability.
Supply Chain Rumors Reaffirm iPhone 7 Will Not Have Headphone Jack
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A Bluetooth adapter (vs a lightning to aux adapter) would maintain your charging capability.
After Magic Mouse 2 it's a reasonable presumption.
jts
...hate me...
I installed this bluetooth kit in the car many years ago:
http://www.parrot.com/usa/support/parrot-mki9100/
Hooks straight to the stereo. Plays over bluetooth, AUX, or iPod connector (the old connector, probably works with the lightning adapter but Ive never tried it). Also has a USB plug.
Its years old though, shame they dont update the product. Newer BT version and connectors would be nice.
http://www.parrot.com/usa/support/parrot-mki9100/
Hooks straight to the stereo. Plays over bluetooth, AUX, or iPod connector (the old connector, probably works with the lightning adapter but Ive never tried it). Also has a USB plug.
Its years old though, shame they dont update the product. Newer BT version and connectors would be nice.
Even then; they're literally removing a world wide standard port that billions of devices have, that takes up little to no space; just to create an adapter. What kind of shit is this?
oh come on. the use-case for a mouse is completely different from a phone. you charge it like once a month and it takes minutes to charge.
you charge a phone a lot more frequently. it's not even comparable
we'll have to wait and hear the official reasoning if this happens. or just assume the worst based on a leak
Shadax the wizard
Member
Makes me wonder what the next earbuds will be like. I'll probably survive if they're comfortable and have decent sound quality. Don't you think they'll have something up their sleeve though, like in terms of new functionality/features to justify the move?
Other than thinness that is :/
jts
...hate me...
Probably, but hey, why not get a 1000 more posts in this thread just based on pure speculation.
Mohonky
Member
There probably will be, via a ridiculously overpriced proprietory cable.
I like the path that bluetooth headphones are going, especially with companies like Earin, the Moto Hint, and etc. but I think it's incredibly naive to discard such an essential port and the rationale that some of you are spouting in defense of its removal is questionable.
It's easy to say, "This is the future ya luddites!" but if you honestly consider the inconvenience of it move, it's baffling.
One, the cost of entry for a decent pair of bluetooth headphones with decent quality sound is going to be, dollar for dollar, more expensive than a wired 3.5 jack. The prices have come down significantly for BT but it's still not comparable.
Two, BT will have size limitations due to the tech. If you want a super small BT headset like the Earin, you sacrifice battery life or have to carry an additional case/battery pack currently. And typically, for the choices right now, most BT earbuds are still wired to a certain extent (LG Tone, Jaybird X2). It'll get better, but hopefully sooner, quicker.
And for the people that say that it's so simple to pair a BT, it might be for you but that's not the general consensus. It's far easier to just plug a 3.5mm in and out rather than to pair a BT, and to turn on and off the signal when you start/stop using it. You might also, depending on the BT device, have to turn on and off the headset itself.
I'm not even going to go into the fact that wired earbuds or headsets are easier to DIY fix, has less things to malfunction, power consumption, or radio/line of sight interference.
I would much prefer if that was the path that Apple was going with, that they would gradually push for wider acceptance of the wireless platform AFTER significant advances in both power, range, price, and size.
It's easy to say, "This is the future ya luddites!" but if you honestly consider the inconvenience of it move, it's baffling.
One, the cost of entry for a decent pair of bluetooth headphones with decent quality sound is going to be, dollar for dollar, more expensive than a wired 3.5 jack. The prices have come down significantly for BT but it's still not comparable.
Two, BT will have size limitations due to the tech. If you want a super small BT headset like the Earin, you sacrifice battery life or have to carry an additional case/battery pack currently. And typically, for the choices right now, most BT earbuds are still wired to a certain extent (LG Tone, Jaybird X2). It'll get better, but hopefully sooner, quicker.
And for the people that say that it's so simple to pair a BT, it might be for you but that's not the general consensus. It's far easier to just plug a 3.5mm in and out rather than to pair a BT, and to turn on and off the signal when you start/stop using it. You might also, depending on the BT device, have to turn on and off the headset itself.
I'm not even going to go into the fact that wired earbuds or headsets are easier to DIY fix, has less things to malfunction, power consumption, or radio/line of sight interference.
I would much prefer if that was the path that Apple was going with, that they would gradually push for wider acceptance of the wireless platform AFTER significant advances in both power, range, price, and size.
can you think of a better way to push for that kind of innovation than the worlds best smartphone dropping the headphone jack?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Unless there is a simple solution that doesn't require adapters or changing out my car's stereo, I will not be able to support Apple products moving forward. I travel a ton and not being able to have my phone charging while also plugged into the car's stereo for GPS direction and music purposes is a no go. Bluetooth as it stands now is not an acceptable workaround. I'm sure Apple has something in mind here, but I have a feeling that what I view as an acceptable substitution for a perfectly working technology and what Apple wants to sell me will be two different things.
Have the replacement in place before dropping a feature inherent to mobile devices?
Have the replacement in place before dropping a feature inherent to mobile devices?
Lightning is one of the biggest missteps Apple has made in recent years.
It's advantages over USB 3/C are greatly outweighed by inconvenience and incompatibility for end users
it's a chicken and egg thing
I agree with you, but I still don't believe it should be at the cost and convenience of the majority of it's user base.
They purchased Beats, and have the technological R&D to make a compelling product. They should introduce that and have the consumer decide the best approach. This, "It'll get better since Apple is going to do it" is a faith based logic, and though they have made substantial inroads in terms of simplification and fabrication of great products, they aren't infallible.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Not really. Movie makers didn't stop supporting VHS until DVDs were established and in the public domain. Hyundai didn't ditch the combustible engine when electric batteries became consumer viable. Etc. You can view those as bad examples, if you want, but choose your own. In every case, there has been a replacement tech entrenched before removing something so vital to an entire business model. The aux jack enables the mobility of a music player. I don't believe Apple is outright stupid, so clearly they have some replacement in mind.
The problem is that there really is two options here.
1) They've conquered wireless audio. If this is the case, bravo. All aboard.
2) They're banking on already established systems.
Since the leaks aren't talking about a second lighting port, we can assume that's not what they're after. So either they're banking wholly on Bluetooth or hoping that most people will be okay changing out their perfectly working, deeply entrenched - in some cases expensive fashion accessories for their proprietary headphones. This is a relatively unheard of move. Apple changed out their chargers, but nobody had already paid 50-500 bucks for a charger. Secondly, yeah, the lighting connector had some benefits over the old connection. Smaller, reversible and such.
Simply telling people the aux is 'outdated' isn't going to work when they have money already invested into the thing. Not without offering even some tangible benefit. We've seen it with failed techs in the past. DivX. MiniDisc. LaserDisc. Google Glass (so far). All of these things offered - at best - a lateral movement for consumers.
What can Apple have created that isn't a new connector? The only real weaks pot on headphone technology is the wire. People won't be moved by a new connection. They're not going to be moved because some people want to rush to crown every new technology as 'innovative' or 'progress' (calling others Luddites in the process). You have to give the consumer something, and right now the only thing I can see they could offer the general public is a wireless tech that works.
Again, if that ends up being the case, choo choo. I'm on the hype train. Until that announcement and demonstrated, I remain unmoved.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Actually, Bluetooth devices (and I'm not talking about mice) are a huge part of my job.
The thing with Bluetooth is that it's very poorly suited for multimedia applications. Things that require a constant, reliable stream of data and significant bandwidth are bound to fail or experience QoS issues. It is how it is and there's nothing we can do about it but accept it.
The standard has improved over time, but it can still very messy from a final user perspective. Connections drop for no reason, high bandwidth audio is a chimera, video is shit, pairing issues remain. The implementation needs to be perfect at both software and hardware levels to work seamessly, which can become really hard when you work with a complete ecosystem of devices. And the more wireless your household becomes, so does the the chance of finding some absurd, incredibly annoying issue. I'm glad if it works seamlessly for you. Alas, it's not the case for many other consumers.
It wasn't so long ago I was driving a €80,000 Audi that couldn't pair for shit with a modern Sony smartphone. My friend's iPhone fared better, but it would still experience random delays and had trouble switching songs after a while. Changing devices was also problematic. We are talking about top of the line machinery manufactured by three world renowned companies failing to accomplish something as simple as playing music in 2016. My parent's Ford is even worse.
Car audio is definitely the thing where Bluetooth crushes the old 3.5mm jack (I'd rather have no stupid cables around my dashboard or glove box), yet so many times it feels a complete crapshoot due to a number of factors that shouldn't be an issue.
We need something better than Bluetooth. Or at very least a new version that completely does away with the subpar garbage we have right now.
Edit: For those interested, Solid Signal has a neat entry on why Bluetooth can be so problematic at times.
204k signatures on the petition so far:
https://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/
https://action.sumofus.org/a/iphone-headphone-jack/
Have Apple earbuds ever been comfortable or had decent sound quality?
lol because online petitions mean anything, this isn't even official yet haha
more than likely this is false as their primary motivation.
removing the cost and space of the 1/8" jack is way more important to them.
even apple knows mfgrs are more likely to double down on BT headphones/earbuds rather than switching over to lightning primarily.
deeply engrained standards are ALWAYS inconvenient to the masses when it comes to change. and it is in fact inconvenient, but at the same time required to move people off of it.
the fact is that as long as it sticks around, it will remain everyone's primary method of listening, and as long as that is true the ability to roll out new audio playback tech will continue to stifle as people have no reason to move from something that is "meh, good enough"
Shadax the wizard
Member
No, not in my opinion.
WordAssassin
Member
I don't know if this is the best example/comparison, but look at the video game industry. When a company like Sony makes a PS Move, and it's there in addition to a DualShock and not as the main controller, nobody give a flying fuck about it, no games support it, and it fades away. When it is the main form of control, like the Wii Remote, then people HAVE to deal with it.
Giving developers a phone with a 3.5mm jack and telling them "Ok that's in there but we'd really like you to focus on Lightning and Wireless instead" manufacturers and customers alike will tell Apple to go fuck themselves and we'll be exactly where we are now: phones that use wired technology primarily because Wireless currently is inadequate.
Now, remove the headphone jack, and manufacturers and customers alike no longer have the option of using their old technology, universal as it may be, and everyone is forced, for better or worse, to move on to the New Hotness, meaning massive improvements in Lightning and Wireless standards.
I know it's good to have choices, but more often than not people will continue to use what they are used to and familiar with over something new when given the choice.
I've said it before but it is asinine to assume this is a problem Apple has not thought of themselves. If these rumors pan out, there will be a solution to listening to music while charging. Maybe it will be a dongle and maybe it will be to plug your headphones into the Lightning port while charging via an Apple Watch style magnetic pad on the back and maybe it will be some other thing none of us can think of right now. Hell for all we know maybe you CAN'T, but we won't know until Tim Cook gets up on that stage to tell us. But it is absolutely something that they've considered and the answer to your question will arrive when they actually reveal the phone this fall.
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In life, I find it very helpful to gather as much information about something before forming an opinion and making a decision. I'd advise others to do the same and just freaking wait and see 1) if Apple actually does this and 2) how they're planning to do it before making such bold claims about switching phones and Apple telling them to go fuck themselves. Yes this is a discussion board so I'm not saying we shouldn't hypothesize about what they'll do, but some of the reactions in this thread read as if Apple has already done something. They haven't. Hold your horses before you throw away your iPhone or suggest Apple wants you to buy a new fucking car because it doesn't have a Bluetooth radio in it.
30yearsofhurt
Member
But there is no technical advantage to moving away from it.
By going wireless you're just moving the DAC and op-amp from the phone to the earphones. Except you're not. Because you still have a speaker on the phone.
So now you're duplicating the cost a known DAC/op-amp combination that any earphone maker can design their earphones around to one where each set of earphones requires its own DAC/op-amp. The potential for better sound is there but the cost of the extra circuitry will act as an incentive to use cheaper drivers anyway.
Your next option is to add an adapter that apple will no doubt charge for. So instead of "it just works" it's now "it just works if you have an added attachment that we charge a ridiculous amount for". And you're still wired, you're just adding complexity and more opportunity for things to go wrong into the mix.
The fact is people may bang on about "new playback tech" but that just ignores the fact that the wired connection is ubiquitous because it works flawlessly. There is nothing wrong with the way it works. It hasn't stopped wireless connections from being developed. It isn't expensive (especially in relation to the most overpriced phone on the market). It doesn't stifle designers. It is efficient and the best means of playing back sound to an individual (which was the idea behind the iPod originally right?).
By going wireless you're just moving the DAC and op-amp from the phone to the earphones. Except you're not. Because you still have a speaker on the phone.
So now you're duplicating the cost a known DAC/op-amp combination that any earphone maker can design their earphones around to one where each set of earphones requires its own DAC/op-amp. The potential for better sound is there but the cost of the extra circuitry will act as an incentive to use cheaper drivers anyway.
Your next option is to add an adapter that apple will no doubt charge for. So instead of "it just works" it's now "it just works if you have an added attachment that we charge a ridiculous amount for". And you're still wired, you're just adding complexity and more opportunity for things to go wrong into the mix.
The fact is people may bang on about "new playback tech" but that just ignores the fact that the wired connection is ubiquitous because it works flawlessly. There is nothing wrong with the way it works. It hasn't stopped wireless connections from being developed. It isn't expensive (especially in relation to the most overpriced phone on the market). It doesn't stifle designers. It is efficient and the best means of playing back sound to an individual (which was the idea behind the iPod originally right?).
Marty Chinn
Member
Eh, people have a long history of wanting just "meh, good enough" People would rather have "meh, good enough" than quality. Apple could easily move people away from it by including wireless headphones with their devices. You can transition someone off old tech rather than simply cutting them off to annoy them because you think it's the right thing to do. There's been plenty of times when tech just transitioned rather than being painfully cut off.
Their port can't do analog audio out can it? Wouldn't that mean any headphones or adapter would require a dac? Cheap dacs can sound REALLY shitty (had a terrible one for my pc once), so wouldn't the just make decent headphones cost more?
Or are they planning on just using bluetooth, which also doesn't sound as good by default due to compression? I don't get it. I would have thought the creators of the ipod would have a phone with great audio quality (which, to be fair, iPhones tend to sound pretty damn good).
Or are they planning on just using bluetooth, which also doesn't sound as good by default due to compression? I don't get it. I would have thought the creators of the ipod would have a phone with great audio quality (which, to be fair, iPhones tend to sound pretty damn good).
WordAssassin
Member
IF Apple decides to do this, we'll have the answers to those questions this fall. Maybe they've even come up with some third option of getting it to work that we can't imagine yet because the patents for it haven't leaked.
If they do just use Bluetooth though, I'd be willing to bet the audio quality would drastically improve over a fairly short period of time. No company wants to be the one left selling those shitty Bluetooth headphones when everyone else is upping their game to cash in on the millions of new customers that removing the 3.5mm jack would produce.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Primo example. What is the state of motion controls now? And the old, stodgy controllers? How did they weather the dongle fad? Turns out, people prefer usability over "new" in the long run.
I understand what you're saying but when one option is inferior in terms of simplicity, consistent quality (audio), and price of entry why would you pick a strategy that burns so many bridges.
Progress is good and yeah sometimes you need to make tough calls so that the adoption rate of new tech is more abundant. But, this feels more like a New Coke sort of deal.
If you weigh the two options, it's a harder sell to justify their stance.
And this idea that companies won't introduce new tech or progress without such extreme measure is such a fallacy. There's no reason why it can't occur in tandem which would be beneficial and consumer friendly.
SmackCrackleNPop
Member
I like the Lightning port, Apple wasn't going to wait another 4 years for USB-C to change from their 30-pin connector. It's small and symmetrical and still thinner than USB-C. Apple was part of the group that helped design USB-C anyway. MicroUSB didn't have the MHL standards set yet (which requires separate power or a proprietary cable anyway)
We'll eventually get to USB-C for everything. I hope. Until the next standard, lol
We'll eventually get to USB-C for everything. I hope. Until the next standard, lol
infiniteloop
Member
Another rumor claims 'iPhone 7' will drop headphone jack, gain waterproofing & wireless charging
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...one-jack-gain-waterproofing-wireless-charging
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16...one-jack-gain-waterproofing-wireless-charging
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Apple using a proprietary wireless charger would be taking the piss at this point.
Like, goddamn.
Like, goddamn.
I love my Iphone, but I would be very hesitant to even consider it if they went with proprietary drivers for their wireless headphones, as well as proprietary wireless charging.
Might as well go all in and require special required gloves to use the touchscreen and sell it as a safety feature.
SmackCrackleNPop
Member
Wireless charging probably will be similar to how the Watch gets charged
The Apple Watch uses Qi charging but lo and behold it's tweaked so only their charger works with the Apple Watch.
Edit: I would still use a cable to charge since I can use the phone in my hand and still charge
The Apple Watch uses Qi charging but lo and behold it's tweaked so only their charger works with the Apple Watch.
Edit: I would still use a cable to charge since I can use the phone in my hand and still charge
adamsappel
Member
There were a lot, as in all of them, of peripherals that used the 30-pin connector that were instantly redundant. I keep an iPhone 4S alive just to still use the ones I have.
WordAssassin
Member
Well there's a reason for that. Two out of the three companies making systems didn't have motion controls as their standard, and then when the next generation happened even the company that pioneered it dropped them as the main form of control.
I think if the Wii U had included some kind of evolution of the Wii Remote Plus and essentially been Wii HD, and if the PS4's controller had been perhaps a merging of the Move and DS4 where the controller could be standard but break apart into Move-like halves, and the Microsoft (well they did their own thing with Kinect) then we'd be having a different conversation now.
I sometimes wonder what the Wii's success and game library would have been like if Nintendo went with their original idea of having JUST the Wii Remote and not even make the Nunchuck. As it stands, when using the PS Move plus whatever they called its little buddy, or the Wii Remote and Nunchuck, in unison you're basically using a standard controller. It just happens to be separated into two pieces instead of one. But if Nintendo had forced developers to JUST use the Wii Remote and nothing else, I wonder what kind of games we would have gotten. But, uh, that's getting pretty off topic.
Are we assuming that they would not include a wireless charger with the phone? I'd imagine they would have to include SOME way of recharging the phone, right? Maybe they'd sell a bigger one separately, or one that combines the Apple Watch charger with the iPhone 7 charger, but I can't imagine Apple would ever sell a product that needed to be charged in some way, without at least the most basic way to charge it included. That would be infuriating.
infiniteloop
Member
Well, if the lightning port is still there, they can just include the usual charger.
The Watch needs the wireless charger as it's the only way to charge it.
Would be really surprised it Apple included one in the box.
WordAssassin
Member
Oh shit yeah that didn't even occur to me. Oh man I can totally see them only selling the wireless charging pad separate.
Hahahaha fuck, wow. A dongle to use your old headphones via Lightning, and then an additional charging pad to be able to listen to them while charging. Fuck! I bet they'll totally do that. Hahaha god damn.
I'm glad I like wireless headphones but I totally understand that this is gonna be really annoying for some people if you potentially need to buy two additional pieces of kit just so you can charge your phone while still using wired methods to listen to music on non-Lightning headsets.
The Maverick
Member
Android is gonna get an influx of members then.
soul creator
Member
Sounds like the main driver of this decision is the waterproofing? Are there any other devices that are waterproof and maintain a headphone jack?
They should keep the headphone jack and include a bowl of rice with every purchase instead
They should keep the headphone jack and include a bowl of rice with every purchase instead
SmackCrackleNPop
Member
^
Sony Xperia phones are waterproof. I believe the Moto X Pure and Play are as well. All include the headphone jack
Sony Xperia phones are waterproof. I believe the Moto X Pure and Play are as well. All include the headphone jack
Raonak
Banned
Sony Xperia Z series has waterproofed headphone jacks & USB ports.
Yes. Sony's Xperia line are waterproof and their midrange M4 and current Z5 have waterproofing with open USB charging and headphone ports.
minor effort
Banned
Would anybody in this thread buy wired, non-bluetooth, Lightning-only headphones? And spend more than double digits on them?
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