The Fighting Game Noob Thread: From Scrub to Master

Try to get the thread moved to gaming.

Wait, it's an OT? I thought we were going to make tournament threads on a thread by thread basis. If we have a tourney OT rather than making a new thread any time we have tournaments, the staff will view it as overexposure between the fgc thread, this thread, and the tournament thread. This thread will be sent to community and I am trying to avoid that in any way possible.
 
Osu 16 Bit said:
It sounds like you're not combating their low pokes with your own low pokes. You'll want to use your d+4 for that, since Sub-Zero's is super fast and has great range. If you're on offense trying to get in and they're stuffing you with pokes go in right outside their poke range and use your own d+4. Don't look for their poke, just do yours, preemptively. The other good thing to do against pokes is to jump. You see people saying never jump, learn to get in without jumping, ect and I don't agree with that mentality. Jumping is an important part of footsies in 2D games. If you walk to the range they like throw out pokes and you jump they'll be in the recovery of the poke while you're jumping and will have a hard time anti-airing you. Even if they do anti-air you it's not the end of the world because now you have them looking for your jump and that is one more thing on their mind to set up your offense. Think of it this way...you have a bunch of options in the neutral that can be punished. Your long range moves like f+4, your pokes, your run, your dash, your jump. The opponent has a way to blow all these up..but they cannot do it all at once. No one can look for a dash, while looking for run, while waiting to anti-air you. What you need to do is get them worried about all these options so they pick from a couple to focus on and it opens up the rest. Like if they're hyper focused on trying to anti-air you then you're more likely to successfully run up to them and get your offense going. I think part of the reason you're getting blown up in footsies by their pokes is that you're not mixing it up enough, you're letting them control that space in front of them with pokes because you're not threatening them in other areas.

Also a random Unbreakable tip. A bunch of normals canceled into EX d,b+3 are plus. Some are super plus. IIRC f+4~EX d.b+3 is so plus his b+3,3 is guarunteed and they cannot poke out of b+2. I don't see many Sub players talking about that and I think it's pretty good.
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Solid advice. I will be practicing. Also, and this may be an exclusively on-line problem for me, when I try jumping after blocking or getting hit by a down 4 it seems like I can't escape most of the time. Maybe they were plus frames or something ...
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
Try to get the thread moved to gaming.

Wait, it's an OT? I thought we were going to make tournament threads on a thread by thread basis. If we have a tourney OT rather than making a new thread any time we have tournaments, the staff will view it as overexposure between the fgc thread, this thread, and the tournament thread. This thread will be sent to community and I am trying to avoid that in any way possible.
Click to expand...

Got ya. So lets going a head and make it a weekly.
 
vulva said:
I feel like Sim is more annoying for Chun. A good Sim will keep Chun out, which is what she mainly wants from her game. He has better long range pokes and his ability to cover the ground game with a fireball and then shut in any jump ins (especially with Chun's floaty jump) makes for a very difficult time. If you stick with trying to challenge him on the ground and progress through the ground game he has his fierce to make life even harder for her. Once you manage to somehow get a knockdown on him, then it's harder for him and once you get ultra 1 it makes it so he can't do as many dumb things (if you get hit by instant air overhead jump back fierce you can punish it on it or block) but then he can still just use his ranged normals to prevent any inward movement.

Most success I've had against Sim involves using Chun's sweep to challenge his fierce punches at the range he's likely to use this. This gives you a knockdown and a chance to get in class for some pressure. He has no good up close reversals so you don't have to worry too much once you're in, but if you play an actually talented Sim those opportunities to get in are few and far in between.
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In Super I would agree, but in Ultra I feel the match-up has gone into Chun's favour. Not heavily, but with the buffs she received (and the nerfs Dhalsim did), it turned the tide into her favour. Her floaty jump-ins aren't too problematic given that Chun-Li has a couple aerial normals that trade or stuff Dhalsim's anti-airs cleanly from certain ranges, and he has to resort to EX Yoga Blast to safely push her out of that space. Low profiling with his slide is an option to get around that, however. The grounded fireball game isn't too problematic for her from what I've gathered: it feels more cumbersome for Dhalsim to try and cleanly punish her in the same way like he would against shotos, Guile et cetera because of the awkward hitboxes involved and teleporting behind her during the animation or her recovery frames is a bit of a mixed bag of me. The latter could be partially due to online though, so take that with a grain of salt. Dhalsim also has to respect the entire screen once she has Ultra 1 if the Chun-Li has shown she's able to buffer it inside a forward dash and her focus attack seems decent enough to negate the long-range pokes until she builds up enough meter for her Ultra (if the Dhalsim is careless enough to feed her willy-nilly) or to help her move forwards. Fireball -> teleport shenanigans are also undone by EX Spinning Bird Kick, if Chun has the meter to spare. Unsure whether she generally builds it up quicker than Sim.

Chun-Li also has a few normals capable of beating his limbs from afar and I'm under the impression the ball is in her court once she reaches the mid-screen distance, partially because of what you said regarding her sweep. It gets even uglier if she invades his personal space: Dhalsim having post-knockdown options (like you said), Yoga Flame being punishable by her Super - I don't think they changed that, don't quote me on it - and her up-close footsie game being more versatile than his. I vaguely recall she even had an option select to punish a teleport if he attempts to use it as a reversal and just like with any character, any aggressive play with the teleport (be it a read or whatever else) is undone by a single jab.

MikeBreezy92 said:
I think ranked is fine for the exact reasons you listed. It builds up a defense to cheese or whatever is used to win. Can't get stuck in the "correct" or "incorrect" way to play as that limits how you progress in multiple ways. There are moments when you have to go "dumb" and playing the correct way to play is too structured to really allow that. Its best to alternate between the two.
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Learning to defend against cheese is worthwhile to a point, but gimmick strategies are only a small part of the game and you'll pick up too many bad habits if you're exposed to it for too long in an environment like Ranked. Longer sets in Endless against legitimately skilful and flexible players has been far more educational for me, with said category having been the vast minority in Ranked back when I played. Again, primarily anecdotal though.

Cindi Mayweather said:
It's a game of cat and mouse. Once you DO get in he teleports and resets the whole thing. Agony.
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What vulva said. Inch him towards the corner.
 
Hey guys, i've been keeping my eye on this thread for a long time. Now that I'm back home with my pc setup I'm going to see if I can get my capture setup for some advice hopefully. I've been a usf4 pc scrub for a while and I really want to break that 1000pp barrier I keep hitting and bouncing off of.

Great Idea for a thread, and good luck to all my fellow scrubs!
 
Feelin a lot better about myself goin online today. I think I've improved a bit on the weakest parts of my game (the anti-airs and my links) and managed to go from 300 to 900 PP in one sitting. I did beat up on a decent amount of new/bad players, but I also managed to beat some 1000+ PP players which was good.

Also, thanks to Yams for telling me about the anti-air j.mp into ultra 1 Ryu tech. Managed to blow up a T. Hawk with it lol.

Nakazato said:
Got ya. So lets going a head and make it a weekly.
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So a fighting game weekly huh...sounds familiar...

For real would love to join but Saturdays/Sundays are my worst days since I work weekends and Sunday is homework/studying day. If I ever get the chance I'll definitely join the tourneys tho.
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
FGC thread - general fighting game thread
Noob thread - thread for newcomers
Tournament threads - on a case by case basis, weekly, biweekly;etc.

I think that sounds ok? Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Think that might be the best way to do it.

This week might be a bit disorganized. Then Ill start Putting the Bi/Weekly thread up on Wed.
 
We already had a weekly fgc thread. My fear is that the mods will read that as recreating the FGW threads, but I have no idea why the FGW threads were sent to community.

To be honest, the tournament thread didn't need to be an OT. Since we don't want to communicate to the staff that we're not a community, an OT directly runs contrary to that. The ScrubGaf thing also gives off the notion that we are a community, when really, we're an open thread where anyone can enter and ask for advice to get better. It'd help if we had a staff member on ready who can look out for our interests and so we can communicate what's going on.
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
We already had a weekly fgc thread. My fear is that the mods will read that as recreating the FGW threads, but I have no idea why the FGW threads were sent to community.

To be honest, the tournament thread didn't need to be an OT. Since we don't want to communicate to the staff that we're not a community, an OT directly runs contrary to that. The ScrubGaf thing also gives off the notion that we are a community, when really, we're an open thread where anyone can enter and ask for advice to get better.
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Bish felt like FGW went off-topic too much, which isn't false.
 
Thanks for the matches in VF oneida and AKN. Too bad you had to leave :p

Edit: if Anyone wants to play DOA or xrd, then i'm your guy. In DOA i'm quite good. In xrd i'm a scrub. On psn btw :)
 
ggs @AAK and @kurt

i was getting away with murder with these:
pkI8gXoh.jpg

4S6M7Aoh.jpg

and of course theyre even better on sideturn

you can fuzzy the mid/throw mixup after you block this

sorry i had to use bloodburger's embarassing pai outfit as an example
 
oneida said:
ggs @AAK and @kurt

i was getting away with murder with these:
pkI8gXoh.jpg

4S6M7Aoh.jpg

and of course theyre even better on sideturn

you can fuzzy the mid/throw mixup after you block this

sorry i had to use bloodburger's embarassing pai outfit as an example
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I'm still a scrub in VF and have some bad habits from DOA.
Example: in DOA i can hold 4 when blocking and then press H+K with Jacky to do his crescent kick. If i do the same in VF, it just does his high spin kick. It takes some time to adjust for me. And using P+K+G in VF for most things is very confusing.
 
weepy said:
Solid advice. I will be practicing. Also, and this may be an exclusively on-line problem for me, when I try jumping after blocking or getting hit by a down 4 it seems like I can't escape most of the time. Maybe they were plus frames or something ...
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Getting hit by a low poke gives them a lot of plus frames. Blocking a low poke is usually negative for them but not by much. It depends on the poke.

Generally when you're hit by a low poke the best thing to do is block the upcoming mixup or make a hard read and armor. Sometimes if their followup is fast you can't even armor.

If you block a low poke the safest thing to do is counter poke back.
 
oneida said:
ggs @AAK and @kurt

i was getting away with murder with these:
http://i.imgur.com/pkI8gXoh.jpg[img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4S6M7Aoh.jpg[img]
and of course theyre even better on sideturn

you can fuzzy the mid/throw mixup after you block this

sorry i had to use bloodburger's embarassing pai outfit as an example[/QUOTE]

I figured as much with the 6K+G, but I kept trying to SS the 9K you were doing after it. It never worked :(

Did not think it was the same thing with 4P... that' spretty cheap LOL. But GG's, that was a lot of fun. So glad we had a playable connection.
Click to expand...
 
AAK said:
I figured as much with the 6K+G, but I kept trying to SS the 9K you were doing after it. It never worked :(

Did not think it was the same thing with 4P... that' spretty cheap LOL. But GG's, that was a lot of fun. So glad we had a playable connection.
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I'm amazed that it never lagged since i live in sweden :p
 
NoctisVsStar said:
The thing is you can tell when a person plays scared, just by them holding back the entire match, hell some put themselves in the corner for me. Getting hit with a fireball or two isn't going to kill you. I'm not advocating jumping and eating a DP but you gotta push forward and get in their grill. Taking dmg is part of the game but you gotta go in smartly, I just feel playing scared is a disservice but maybe I'm the wrong person to offer advice since I've been playing SF since I was diapers.

For instance: this match I had all he did was back himself into the corner and rarely came forward
http://youtu.be/K9_dQsl6YCU
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Thing is there are characters that don't want to push forward and don't want to get up in your grill. Sagat is one of them . That Sagat had the right idea but didn't know how to go about it so his solution was to back up and eventually into the corner. Sim (obviously ) is another. Telling a new Sim player to walk fowrard and not be afraid of taking hits is (PLEASE I MEAN NO OFFENSE) terriblie advise. He just cannot afford to take any kind of damage like that . He's going to see his health dissapear , he's gonna get bodied and have no clue what just happened. To be fair neither of us , or anyone honestly, can make blankent statements like be afraid or don't be afraid or anything like that . I see You're a Ken player I see so it makes sense why you would say be aggressive. I'm an AKuma/ E.Ryu player I have to be more catious and more mindful of what I'm doing...probaly why our philosophies clash.
 
I always get so hype for fighting games, then play them for a day or two and stop. Really hope SFV changes things for me this year. New stick, got a stick bag coming in, I am prepared.
 
SFV for sure and might pick up MKX again when the new Kombat Pack comes out (Leatherface ya know). SFV on PC, MKX on ps4. Probably KI but I haven't upgraded to W10 and I'm selling my xb1 stick right now so I probably won't bother with KI on XB1 anymore.

Likely the new GG Xrd Revelator too, ps4.
 
drotahorror said:
SFV for sure and might pick up MKX again when the new Kombat Pack comes out (Leatherface ya know). SFV on PC, MKX on ps4. Probably KI but I haven't upgraded to W10 and I'm selling my xb1 stick right now so I probably won't bother with KI on XB1 anymore.

Likely the new GG Xrd Revelator too, ps4.
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KI looks so fun but i don't wanna drop more money on a xbone or new pc.
 
As I was reading my textbooks for Uni this morning I thought of something I wanted to ask you guys:

When is it appropriate to start learning new characters?

I ask because I often find myself caring over strats that apply to one character to another one and that makes me think it can lead to using the new character the least optimal way. So then I either give up on the idea of learning a new character as a whole or I switch to another character that is similar to my main. The latter isn't desirable for me because I personally think learning different types of characters expands your skill set as a player and evidently leads you to understand match ups on deeper level. At least that's how I approached classes in MMOs with competitive PvP play. I also feel that if you switch to a new character "too early" you'll never be any good with at least one character, due to the lack of time commitment, which would be frustrating.
 
Femto. said:
As I was reading my textbooks for Uni this morning I thought of something I wanted to ask you guys:

When is it appropriate to start learning new characters?

I ask because I often find myself caring over strats that apply to one character to another one and that obviously can lead to using the new character the least optimal way. So then I either give up on the idea of learning a new character as a whole or I switch to another character that is similar to my main. The latter isn't desirable for me because I personally think learning different types of characters expands your skill set as a player and evidently leads you to understand match ups on deeper level. At least that's how I approached classes in MMOs with competitive PvP play. I also feel that if you switch to a new character "too early" you'll never be any good with at least one character, due to the lack of time commitment, which would be frustrating.
Click to expand...

Learn a new character when your current character gets boring or isn't working, or learn new characters as you train for match up situations you're getting hit with, or learn multiple characters at once.
 
What type of fighter is Ky in Xrd? I've been trying to use him as a rush fighter but I think I may be using him wrong along with randomly pushing buttons and roman cancelling at all the time.
 
Cindi Mayweather said:
Learn a new character when your current character gets boring or isn't working, or learn new characters as you train for match up situations you're getting hit with, or learn multiple characters at once.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I'll try to incorporate the bold part more, playing a different character with match ups you get frustrated with will probably yield better results than playing with an "ugh, here we go." attitude before the match even starts.
 
KRaZyAmmo said:
What type of fighter is Ky in Xrd? I've been trying to use him as a rush fighter but I think I may be using him wrong along with randomly pushing buttons and roman cancelling at all the time.
Click to expand...

He can zone and fight close up.

You can also use his charged stun edge to force the opponent to block when they wake up.
 
I'll try to get a replay against an opponent and upload it on youtube. I need a mentor on starting on Xrd with Ky. I know when I play my friends with Ky I am absolutely using him wrong lol

edit: or if anyone is having a Xrd lobby up. I'll be game on Friday-Sundays if I'm not busy.
 
Femto. said:
Thanks!

I'll try to incorporate the bold part more, playing a different character with match ups you get frustrated with will probably yield better results than playing with an "ugh, here we go." attitude before the match even starts.
Click to expand...

Just do what feels right. I want to learn Faust in GG once my I-no is up to par and I want to learn Juri in USFIV.
 
Play a new character whenever you feel like it pretty much. You can't really know what works for you without trying it out.

Femto. said:
I also feel that if you switch to a new character "too early" you'll never be any good with at least one character, due to the lack of time commitment, which would be frustrating.
Click to expand...
In that case you are probably never going to be good with any character to begin with. Spending some time with another character is just a drop in the bucket compared to the time you probably need.
 
Last night I felt defeated. Today I feel determined to fix my flaws! Been working on bnb's and offense for a solid 2 hours. BNB's and offense are a huge weak link in my game. That and anti-air.
 
Crab Milk Mickey said:
Learning to defend against cheese is worthwhile to a point, but gimmick strategies are only a small part of the game and you'll pick up too many bad habits if you're exposed to it for too long in an environment like Ranked. Longer sets in Endless against legitimately skilful and flexible players has been far more educational for me, with said category having been the vast minority in Ranked back when I played. Again, primarily anecdotal though.
Click to expand...

Player Matches are structural and more educational and learning intensive.

Ranked is like the wild west and more about adaptation in single bursts.

Depending on where you're trying to go skill wise one is gonna be better than the other but to be competent imo you're going to need both.

Not disagreeing with you just showing the merit of using both as a tool for different things instead of relying on one or the other.
 
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