He can win the primary. Iowa polls have to be too close for comfort for the Clinton campaign especially given that Obama, Huckabee and Santorum (won the caucus) outperformed the polls by a lot and won the state. If Bernie wins the first two states then that is much needed momentum for his campaign. I'm a Clinton supporter and think she'll be the best POTUS and Commander in Chief but will definitely vote Bernie if I have to. I just think the same anti establishment sentiment that permeates the GOP is alive is alive and well in the Democratic Party. I will say this though, Bernie as President will mean a political standstill in Washington for the next 4 years. Nothing and I mean nothing will get done. People like Bernie, Trump and Cruz are in for a rude awakening if they become president.
Bernie can win in 2016
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sure he can but here is why i wont think he will.
1. His policies don't have a number. In the debates he said he'd tax at less than 90%. Which drew chuckles from the crowd. But there is some truth to that.
2. His policies are easy to campaign on but aren't feasible to win a general election.
2a. Republicans refuse to increase taxes. They have actively shut down the government as leverage to cut more from the gov.
2b. He claims to be a socialist, which already is toxic to the majority of voters.
3. His foreign policy is shockingly weak and almost nonexistant. The catch 22 is, if he does have a foreign policy, it cuts into the total budget of his policy, which is already unfeasible.
4. Many democrats would drop out in the general election if Hilary wasn't a front runner via disenfranchisement. Cutting out votes.
4a. Many Bernie fans use similar logic as republicans when attacking Hilary. Dont trust, without substantiating it. In addition, there is a very strong online presence of Bernie, i.e. polling controversy #91210. Clearly the influx of online polls is a result of astroturfing. That is not to say there aren't bernie fans, however real world presence could be much smaller.
but really, he needs to give numbers. campaigning on rainbows and equality for all is great, but we're still at a 90,000 ft view of it all. it is a bit glaring.
1. His policies don't have a number. In the debates he said he'd tax at less than 90%. Which drew chuckles from the crowd. But there is some truth to that.
2. His policies are easy to campaign on but aren't feasible to win a general election.
2a. Republicans refuse to increase taxes. They have actively shut down the government as leverage to cut more from the gov.
2b. He claims to be a socialist, which already is toxic to the majority of voters.
3. His foreign policy is shockingly weak and almost nonexistant. The catch 22 is, if he does have a foreign policy, it cuts into the total budget of his policy, which is already unfeasible.
4. Many democrats would drop out in the general election if Hilary wasn't a front runner via disenfranchisement. Cutting out votes.
4a. Many Bernie fans use similar logic as republicans when attacking Hilary. Dont trust, without substantiating it. In addition, there is a very strong online presence of Bernie, i.e. polling controversy #91210. Clearly the influx of online polls is a result of astroturfing. That is not to say there aren't bernie fans, however real world presence could be much smaller.
but really, he needs to give numbers. campaigning on rainbows and equality for all is great, but we're still at a 90,000 ft view of it all. it is a bit glaring.
This.. and to cede the race to the GOP means to risk giving-up everything Bernie stands for.
Bernie might not win in 2016, but there will come a time where someone like him does win, maybe in 2020 or 2024. The sad thing? That win won't do a damn bit of good if there's a judiciary in place waiting to kill any of that New Bernie's significant achievements.
This "my way or let it burn!" mantra is a short-sighted manner of thinking, and makes me question how serious these folks are about Bernie's causes. He damn well knows what the stakes are here, which is why he isn't running independently in the event of a loss. And if/when he loses the nomination, he's going to stress supporting the nominee.
Because, unlike these interesting folks (a tiny, vocal minority, to be clear), he gets it. And because he's not willing to throw it all away in a remarkable temper tantrum.
Marion Cobretti
Member
Latest Quinnipiac poll has Clinton and Sanders virtually tied in Iowa, and Bernie is up in NH.
Latest Quinnipiac poll has Bernie beating Trump by a larger margin than Clinton.
Does Clinton going into panick mode combined with Bernie getting more coverage lead to an actual chance for Bernie?
Latest Quinnipiac poll has Bernie beating Trump by a larger margin than Clinton.
Does Clinton going into panick mode combined with Bernie getting more coverage lead to an actual chance for Bernie?
The Lamonster
Member
I don't think he can win the primary or the general.
https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/686941320301117440?s=09
Sweet.
Plus Biden throwing some well-earned shade at Hillary. This is going to be interesting for a while.
Sweet.
Plus Biden throwing some well-earned shade at Hillary. This is going to be interesting for a while.
teruterubozu
Member
Abuela needs to dab harder.
onadesertedisland
Member
It would be amazing, but at all costs the supreme court must not fall into a decades long dark side.
valkillmore
Member
So he's ahead in New Hampshire and Iowa, now. Exciting times.
Your Entertainer
Member
I really hope Bernie can pull it off - I'll definitely be voting for him. The DNC's nuttiness this primary cycle, topped off by Debbie Wasserman Schultz's documented, vested interest in Clinton's campaign, has really put me off.
I don't think one can say that he's not electable - we have polling data that shows it's simply not the case, at least in these hypotheticals so far. Correct?
If he's the nominee, I think he can really fire up the left, both to come out to vote and to drag the national conversation leftwards, more so than Hillary. I also think that the more people know of him, the better he'll do - minority voters will support him given his outstanding record of fighting for them and his policy positions.
If the electability argument is gone, I don't see much standing in the way for getting out there and supporting him over Hillary. I don't see how having someone with better stances on most issues in the white house will hurt compared to Clinton. Like I said, I think the conversation nationally will shift leftward as a result (much more so than under Clinton), and finally begin pulling the country back to reality from the GOP craziness.
EDIT: I want to give some input on the following:
1. I don't think that necessarily is a reason to ding him overall. I think the important thing at this stage is the general idea. We should recognize that numbers change, given the circumstances surrounding a bill actually going through and being passed. I like his ideas best.
2. Why not? I think he's speaking the language of a lot of people who haven't felt energized in terms of having a voice nationally, and I think it will show.
2a. So? That won't change no matter who is in the white house. Having someone with great ideas who is also fiery and willing to fight for them in the white house won't hurt, and will only serve to drag the national conversation leftwards.
2b. That is changing, and very quickly. Expect to see this change shockingly fast if he's the nominee. Imo.
3. I disagree. I also think his Iraq War opposition is a very strong point to campaign on.
4a. I don't see what "Bernie fans" have to do with the man himself besides demonstrating that you (not you in particular) are gotten to by things you read on the internet. I don't care what your idea of "Bernie fans" say or do. On that note, Hillary fans remind me of... well, Hillary fans in 2008. I never would have believed Jeb wouldn't easily win the GOP nom at this time last year - we'll see soon enough how strong of a presence he does have.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to have someone on the national stage championing ideas that need to be put out there and made mainstream. Ideas that are best for the vast majority of people, especially when contrasted to the ideas we've let the GOP make mainstream.
I don't think one can say that he's not electable - we have polling data that shows it's simply not the case, at least in these hypotheticals so far. Correct?
If he's the nominee, I think he can really fire up the left, both to come out to vote and to drag the national conversation leftwards, more so than Hillary. I also think that the more people know of him, the better he'll do - minority voters will support him given his outstanding record of fighting for them and his policy positions.
If the electability argument is gone, I don't see much standing in the way for getting out there and supporting him over Hillary. I don't see how having someone with better stances on most issues in the white house will hurt compared to Clinton. Like I said, I think the conversation nationally will shift leftward as a result (much more so than under Clinton), and finally begin pulling the country back to reality from the GOP craziness.
EDIT: I want to give some input on the following:
1. I don't think that necessarily is a reason to ding him overall. I think the important thing at this stage is the general idea. We should recognize that numbers change, given the circumstances surrounding a bill actually going through and being passed. I like his ideas best.
2. Why not? I think he's speaking the language of a lot of people who haven't felt energized in terms of having a voice nationally, and I think it will show.
2a. So? That won't change no matter who is in the white house. Having someone with great ideas who is also fiery and willing to fight for them in the white house won't hurt, and will only serve to drag the national conversation leftwards.
2b. That is changing, and very quickly. Expect to see this change shockingly fast if he's the nominee. Imo.
3. I disagree. I also think his Iraq War opposition is a very strong point to campaign on.
4a. I don't see what "Bernie fans" have to do with the man himself besides demonstrating that you (not you in particular) are gotten to by things you read on the internet. I don't care what your idea of "Bernie fans" say or do. On that note, Hillary fans remind me of... well, Hillary fans in 2008. I never would have believed Jeb wouldn't easily win the GOP nom at this time last year - we'll see soon enough how strong of a presence he does have.
I don't see how it's a bad thing to have someone on the national stage championing ideas that need to be put out there and made mainstream. Ideas that are best for the vast majority of people, especially when contrasted to the ideas we've let the GOP make mainstream.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
I'd love for him to win, but I can't see it happening.
Shake Appeal
Member
He's actually got a better chance of winning the general.
Leading in 14 points above Clinton in NH. Leading in Iowa (according to recent polls only). Now officially endorsed by MoveOn--which Clinton said was a major headache for her campaign back in 2008 when they endorsed Obama.
:3
Feeling the Bern! Donating as much as I can afford to give and volunteering where I can.
At this point, the only reason I think Clinton may win is because she's the established candidate and the system is corrupt. We'll see if an actual revolution can take place.
:3
Feeling the Bern! Donating as much as I can afford to give and volunteering where I can.
At this point, the only reason I think Clinton may win is because she's the established candidate and the system is corrupt. We'll see if an actual revolution can take place.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Bernie may call himself socialist, but his platform is straight up OG Social Democratic.
Which is totally fine and probably what America needs the most right now. Hell, even Europe could take some serious notes from 80's Social Democrats. Third way did a fucking number on us.
Barajas_201
Member
Is this true? From an outsiders prospective, Bernie is the most exciting candidate and the one with the most progressive ideas.
Tivor Tontomo
Member
Dnc already chose Hillary. Bernie is getting creamed, he cant get the delegates. He is as we speak fightin with the Dnc, and the debates, which could help fix the situation are moderated for Hillary to look good and scheduled to make her mistakes or any of bernies good ideas fall on death ears.
gutter_trash
Banned
He can't win the Democratic nomination since he is not committed to the party.
The party establishment doesn't want him
The party establishment doesn't want him
onadesertedisland
Member
I think the left's assumption that a far left candidate can't win is a great example of how the Democratic party is self defeating. The right has marched a litany of right-wing candidates center stage spouting outright racism and the GOP isn't backing into a corner to support the candidate that is most friendly to undecided voters.
The political reality is that voting in the US is firmly polarized and that centrist and undecided voters are becoming less and less important. We have one party of the haves, and one party of the have nots.
The Democrats must understand that extending a hand to get things done doesn't work any better than refusing to capitulate.
The political reality is that voting in the US is firmly polarized and that centrist and undecided voters are becoming less and less important. We have one party of the haves, and one party of the have nots.
The Democrats must understand that extending a hand to get things done doesn't work any better than refusing to capitulate.
Hillary's not so inevitable after all. This notion about Bernie not being electable is just noise.
Link to the new poll http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nh-poll-bernie-sanders-leads-every-major-voting-bloc/
Link to the new poll http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nh-poll-bernie-sanders-leads-every-major-voting-bloc/
onadesertedisland
Member
It's FUD from the campaign that feels her destiny was slighted.
Indeed.
Yup.
For everyone that would ideally like him, check the primary voting requirements in your state.
Here's the breakdown: http://voteforbernie.org/
Not as amusing as this post when he doesn't.
Yep. The party is ineffectual. Spineless. The establishment fetishism around here is concerning. The party needs a wake-up call. They've owned liberal votes by virtue of "not being Republicans" for too long.
I'm a registered Independent in NC, I'm good to go!
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Let's be clear now: Bernie is only "far left" in America because America's left is centre-right in so many instances and issues.
Team Alucard
Banned
Bernie is an anomaly. We don't know how well he would perform in the general because most people still don't know much about him. We don't know whether or not the socialism boogie man will destroy his electability as we've never had a self-professed socialist run for president as a major candidate.
What we do know is that Hillary Clinton is absolutely hated by a lot of people, and as someone who has been in the mainstream eye for over 25 years its unlikely that public opinion of her is going to improve much in the next 10 months.
I don't understand this Hillary is invincible chosen one nonsense that her supporters here and even HIllary herself keep peddling. The American people don't like her. No candidate has ever won the general election with a negative 10 net favorability rating. If Hillary wins it will be because the GOP nominate someone who is even more reviled, ala Trump.
What we do know is that Hillary Clinton is absolutely hated by a lot of people, and as someone who has been in the mainstream eye for over 25 years its unlikely that public opinion of her is going to improve much in the next 10 months.
I don't understand this Hillary is invincible chosen one nonsense that her supporters here and even HIllary herself keep peddling. The American people don't like her. No candidate has ever won the general election with a negative 10 net favorability rating. If Hillary wins it will be because the GOP nominate someone who is even more reviled, ala Trump.
Shake Appeal
Member
Yeah, Bernie's "radical" proposals boil down to "let's run America more like Western Europe has been run for decades."
You realize that he has no chance, right?
This is sensationalist clickbait bullshit.
cj_iwakura
Member
Even a controversial hard left liberal is going to have a better chance against the drama-ridden Hillary. He can do it.
People were saying the same thing about Barack Obama, now look where we are.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
This video is just the best.
Man it would truly change the world if he gets the nomination, let alone win.
onadesertedisland
Member
Does Trump have a chance? If so, this is again, the defeatist attitude of the Democratic party.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
FTFY
Alas, most the EU doesn't even know what a real Social Democrat is anymore. Their Third Way replacement have been mostly shit and one of the causes of the current wave on inequality due to their disastrous attempts at balancing social democratic ideals with laissez faire economics. Spineless little shits they are.
http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/2016-national-democratic-primary
He will not have the minority vote, he will not win the Democratic nomination. End of story.
i appreciate your response. Democrats are simply the lesser evil regardless of the winner.
we cannot afford Bernie's plan. Republicans refuse to increase taxes, which Bernie's campaign is heavily reliant on. The deficit would be absolutely insane.
His proposal was estimated at 18 Trillion dollars. That's literally the amount of current national debt.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511
he would get annihilated in the general election for this reason alone.
vainglorious
Member
Meet the Press Interview -
Chuck Todd: Are you a capitalist?
Sanders: No. I'm a democratic socialist.
lol Good luck with that.
Chuck Todd: Are you a capitalist?
Sanders: No. I'm a democratic socialist.
lol Good luck with that.
onadesertedisland
Member
We can't afford Bernie's plan, but we can afford to prop up corporations with needless wars. We must remind ourselves why we are currently in the situation we are in economically. It isn't because of domestic spending, it's because of piss poor foreign policy and needless wars.
xenorevlis
Member
Same.
cj_iwakura
Member
If the alternative is a republican fascist, I'm pretty sure he'll manage.
Still pimping that wsj nonsense? Gotta grasp at whatever straws you can, I guess.
http://robertreich.org/post/129306966350
https://youtu.be/A9CRgFO2mnM
LMAo
it's a two sided coin. Gross domestic product is the "size of the economy", but it also requires domestic re-circulation.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
That's a fair point, but if the GOP is not willing to act in the best interest of the country by at least playing ball when it's absolutely needed, maybe it's time to devise a new strategy when it comes to dealing with them. One that further alienates the party while mobilising the rest of the country so voters don't stay at home during the rest of the electoral process.
But as a foreigner who travels with some frequency to America and has lots of American acquaintances, the thing that irks me the most about Democrats is how fucking coward and self-defeating they are. This is the country that sent a man to the Moon, harnessed the power of the atom, built the Hoover dam and much more recently wasted countless billions in senseless wars, yet when confronted with relatively simple stuff such as a the development of a socialized healthcare system in the same vein as the UK's NHS or some kind of germane alternative to the utter insanity that is the current situation of higher education in the country, the typical response is "we can't do that, that would be too complicated/expensive".
Come on.
Time to find your balls again.
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