Everytime I see someone say this I know another larger group that thinks otherwise, the Bern steamroller is real, and rolling over more and more naysayers everyday.
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Bernie can win in 2016
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Everytime I see someone say this I know another larger group that thinks otherwise, the Bern steamroller is real, and rolling over more and more naysayers everyday.
superdeluxe
Member
No, everyone knows he would do well in NH, he is from Vermont. People from those two states share similar values.
All i know is, i'll vote in the primaries, and if Bernie wins i'll vote for him in the general.
If Bernie doesn't win, i'll abstain from voting in the general.
I'm not going to vote for a Republican in Blue clothing any more than i'd vote for a Republican in their normal clothing. The democratic establishment has fully soured me over how they have acted over this whole campaign, and indeed over the past few years.
If Bernie doesn't win, i'll abstain from voting in the general.
I'm not going to vote for a Republican in Blue clothing any more than i'd vote for a Republican in their normal clothing. The democratic establishment has fully soured me over how they have acted over this whole campaign, and indeed over the past few years.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Are you supposed to support who you think will win or the candidate that you feel is the best choice? Not fair to single your response out, but many people I talk to laugh at the idea of supporting Bernie because they don't think he will win. That's just odd to me.
onadesertedisland
Member
Again, the argument that we cannot afford it is evidence of the self defeating attitude that is rampant within the Democratic party. Why should we accept the status quo of deficit funding imperialism and corporatism, but shun deficit spending to rebuild our homeland?
Vigilant Walrus
Member
America is by far the richest nation on earth, and if it wanted it could have the best public sector systems in the world. But past governments have all favored defense. 50 billion dollar budget. You could cut that in half and America still wouldn't even be close to losing its military supremacy.
Isn't Bernies plan to decrease military spending and tax the rich? and isn't it all making society richer- when you increase the minimum wage, almost by clockwork, the wage in higher thresholds increases as well. At least that is common in Europe. There has been some really good effects with helping the poor in ways that mirrors in rest of society raising the wage for everyone else.
Isn't Bernies plan to decrease military spending and tax the rich? and isn't it all making society richer- when you increase the minimum wage, almost by clockwork, the wage in higher thresholds increases as well. At least that is common in Europe. There has been some really good effects with helping the poor in ways that mirrors in rest of society raising the wage for everyone else.
You don't have to vote for Hillary, but it might be good to vote against whoever comes out at top from the GOP.
1. We're "piss our pants" scared of Republicans.
2. First female president.
3. A complete and utter lack of fortitude.
JesseEwiak
Member
The candidate I support the most who can win a general election. It's how the GOP moved the nation right. By nominating Reagan and Bush, not Helms and Gingrich.
We can afford it, it's just we don't have the right systems in place right now to distribute wealth in a manner that would cover it. If you vote for Bernie, you better be electing a Democrat to congress to help push through his legislature.
Voting your ideal president is the first step. You have to follow through on mid-term elections, and take up political action and responsibility. Hopefully his supporters realize that.
Take this advice, at least show up, put your own name in even, just don't toss the vote into nothingness voter turnout is important...
onadesertedisland
Member
The GOP attached themselves to insane single issue voters. That strategy has come to fruition, ala the current band of crazies on stage at the GOP debates.
I'm not against Bernie. I would vote for him or Hilary if either were the nominee.
The only turnoff with Bernie that comes to mind are his rabid supporters. They remind me of Ron Paul supporters which has me concerned. If Bernie is not the nominee, will they say the system is rigged and not bother to vote?
The only turnoff with Bernie that comes to mind are his rabid supporters. They remind me of Ron Paul supporters which has me concerned. If Bernie is not the nominee, will they say the system is rigged and not bother to vote?
Bay Maximus
Banned
.
I knew these polls would have some on GAF frothing at the mouth but it just ain't in the cards I'm afraid. I would vote for him if my state's primary meant a damn but unless he wins IA and NH and gets some KILLER momentum for the south out of thin air then...
Your Entertainer
Member
What does your idea of his supporters actually have to do with anything besides showing that you are gotten to by stuff you read on the interwebz? Detach yourself from becoming emotionally invested and just vote for who you think is best - Bernie or Hillary - and vote for the Dem nominee in the general. I'm turned off by Hillary supporters peddling the "unelectable" and "not realistic" mumbo jumbo but I'm letting it affect my opinion of her herself.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
But but but bootstraps and fuck you I got mine...................
/S
Seriously this is the worst part that the generation of votes who could all change that aren't seeing this aspect sadly.
You should tell the same thing to Bernie supporters who will vote in DONALD. FUCKING. TRUMP. into office if he doesn't get the nom. Fuck those guys.
Hillary will have plenty of apologists to help her if she wins the primaries. I won't be one. I am unwilling to support neoliberal corporatism anymore than i already have. I already regret voting for the 'lesser of two evils' before.
Are you a republican? WSJ fudged the numbers, and misinterpreted what the actual study said that they pulled the numbers from.
Let's listen to Bill Clinton's budget secretary on the matter
http://robertreich.org/post/129306966350
The entire point of moving to single payer is to offset the costs done by private insurers, which is what this plan covers.
In all, we'd actually be saving 5 trillion dollars of the money we would have wasted under our current plan, not expending 18 trillion. That plan that was used by the study (which is not Bernie's but someone else's plan that was the closest to the single payer system Bernie wants) was actually called out by one of the people who conducted it.
have some balls? what?
the strategy should be to win the midterms if you want to defeat the GOP. Democrats typically blow their loads in the general election and not show up after.
The plan isn't too complicated, it is currently too expensive, and would be used as a talking point during the general elections.
his proposal doesnt talk about foreign policy or the cost of DoD. and is largely contingent on shit not hitting the fan.
Your Entertainer
Member
We both know that's not reasonable. But it's also not the same issue in play - they're driven by their dislike for Hillary rather than the bizarre dislike of her supporters like the example I spoke of. Not that it matters - I don't think either side is reasonable in this case.
have some balls? what?
the strategy should be to win the midterms if you want to defeat the GOP. Democrats typically blow their loads in the general election and not show up after.
The plan isn't too complicated, it is currently too expensive, and would be used as a talking point during the general elections.
his proposal doesnt talk about foreign policy or the cost of DoD. and is largely contingent on shit not hitting the fan.
Did you read the posted Rob Reich response?
have some balls? what?
the strategy should be to win the midterms if you want to defeat the GOP. Democrats typically blow their loads in the general election and not show up after.
The plan isn't too complicated, it is currently too expensive, and would be used as a talking point during the general elections.
his proposal doesnt talk about foreign policy or the cost of DoD. and is largely contingent on shit not hitting the fan.
This picture is some of the most deceiving FUD I've seen thrown against Sander's policies. Not only do we have working models, Market Economy Democratic Socialist nations working and saving money, whilst improving the middle class. But we have also seen the policies formerly work in the US, before the red scare threw us from our ways.
Interfectum
Member
lol this was debunked months ago
I did. that picture is from his website, from here http://reverbpress.com/politics/eco...-sanders-policies-cost-america-nothing-video/.
where is DoD?
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Agree and I say this as a veteran.
We spend too much on our military given our defense budget includes the funding of over 600 overseas bases.
Host nations benefit from our imperialism, while Americans suffer at home.
We can't afford it, if it makes sense for our people and is common sense to save money and be more efficient at the same time.
We can afford it, if it makes our issues bigger, and consolidates control further.
That seems to be the ever present narrative going around for inaction. I'm surprised there are so many people who are ignorant and claim to be progressives. If your backing the establishment, your voting directly in opposition to progressive values that, contrary to the sentiment, would actually help rather than hurt.
one of the sources says 'Sanders campaign" in the bottom left of that picture. it is also from Robert Reich's website.
Sander's himself debunked it, but I'm not sure his word would mean much to you anyways.
Tivor Tontomo
Member
This is a stupid statement. Its not simple, for better or worse the current system is extremely viable and integrated into a 3rd of the countries gdp with tons of regulations, benefits, financing and more loops than a box of cheerios.
Its not like flipping a switch and no other country has had even a third of this issue.
Looks like I was wrong. A good amount of Sanders supports won't vote for Clinton if it comes down to that. As a Bernie supporter I will never understand this. I think the party has treated this election pretty shitty so far myself and I'm not particularly excited about Clinton, but you damn well bet I will do whatever I possibly can to make sure a loon like Trump does not become the President. Not voting is as good as a vote for homophobia and bigotry.
Dude Abides
Banned
Unfortunately there appear to be a not-insignificant number of Sanders fans who think Sanders is the second coming and/or Clinton is the devil.
Or it's just an underhanded tactic to push Sanders through the primaries. I doubt that many people are seriously in favor of Trump. It would set back all Obama has done, and Hillary's core platform still overlaps considerably with Sanders.
Dude Abides
Banned
Trump has nothing to do with it. When Sanders fans call Clinton a phony warmongering corporate shill, as they do constantly, I don't see any reason to think they're not expressing their honest beliefs. Why would someone like that particularly care if the choice is between two people they think are evil monstrous oligarchs?
Not too mention it is that last thing Sanders would possibly want. All his work would be for naught. You can't honestly say you are a Sanders fan if you don't do your part to get a Democrat in the White House.
I don't doubt they are sincere in their barbed criticism of Clinton, I'm saying when it comes down to it. They won't give the GOP an inch. Instead they will sit on the left coattail of the political spectrum until the climate get's better.
Dude Abides
Banned
I find that hard to believe when they don't appear to acknowledge a significant difference between Clinton and the GOP. Plus the Bernie enthusiasm seems driven in large part by Bernie the man, not policy preferences.
Do they not acknowledge her differences? I mostly see criticism that she is deep in bed with Wall Street. People wanted Warren for a reason.
perhaps you can point me to some specifics rather than insult my intelligence.
Bernie has his opinions on how to support America if he loses. I have mine. There will be plenty of people who drag themselves to the polls against their own will just to make sure the GOP doesn't win, like Bernie himself will.
Sorry, i don't have the mental fortitude to do that, to vote for people who don't actually care about improving my standard of living over the status quo any longer. We should be looking towards actual solutions, not just enabling this farce.
Hillary is against WallStreet reform, she's against actual reformation of the tax code, she's against actually getting private insurance out of healthcare, or even any real substantial changes to the current system, she's more hawkish than Obama is and on the level of Bush in war time(she advocates attacking both the rebels and the government at the same time after all, just like Iraq), her voting record is horrible in regards to voting for Iraq, the patriot act, she was on the board of directors for walmart, her daughter is married to a Goldman sachs hedge fund manager who's father was arrested and charged for huge financial corruption, and she takes money from literally every corp under the sun.
What other policy differences do i need to spell out?
Dude Abides
Banned
To wit, Injurai.
Apparently who your kid marries is a "policy difference."
Apparently who your kid marries is a "policy difference."
POWERSPHERE
Member
Beleive.
I don't disagree with any of that really. The problem is, reality. And the reality is, you not voting or voting for a Republican will not change anything or send a message or get things moving in the right direction. Having liberal supreme court justices will. Having a Democrat in the office 3 terms in a row, and watching Trump take down the Republican party into flames, will. It may not be this year, but as long as we are moving in the right (left) direction, I do think it will happen eventually. I think Sanders did a good job of showing this nation that that dirty word socialism isn't as dirty as the Right wants people to think it is. People are opening their minds a bit I think.
I listed tons of policy differences there. But the other points just play into what kind of company Hillary keeps that this is what she is surrounded by.
The fact of the matter is, from all aspects of her political life, Hillary Clinton is an advocate of corporatism. With that in mind, why exactly is it so hard to believe that there are people who don't really see much use in voting for that kind of leadership into the highest office?
Jelly Rajah
Banned
The only problem is that Bernie will never be able to bring his ideas to fruition with the current system that's in place (passing legislature through the House of Representatives will be impossible for him). He's even said as much himself.
Dude Abides
Banned
No, you listed a vague litany of context-free complaints and personal attacks. Like I said, Sanders fans are the PUMAs of 2016.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yup
why keep that in mind when people can think for themselves?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/opinion/hillary-clinton-how-id-rein-in-wall-street.html
"Secretary Clinton is right to fight back against Republicans trying to sneak Wall Street giveaways into the must-pass government funding bill,” Ms. Warren, the liberal senator from Massachusetts, wrote on Facebook after Mrs. Clinton published an Op-Ed article in The New York Times with her proposals to regulate Wall Street."
Elizabeth Warren agreed.
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