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[JesseEwiak]

Just a quick reminder - most black Democrat's voted for the various crime bills in the 80's and 90's, including the increase in the Drug War, because that's what their community wanted. Their children were getting hooked on drugs, dying, and destroying the neighborhoods that they had built. It wasn't until it became obvious later on in the 90's and early 00's that the Drug War had become an excuse to jail black American's that the younger parts of the black community turned on it.

You can question whether it was good policy or not from the jump, but be fair here - there was a crime issue, and the Congressional Black Caucus wasn't exactly standing up against Bill.

 

[Your Entertainer]

Hm? I've never tried to scare anyone into voting for Hillary. I just think she's the more pragmatic choice.

The scarecrow was referring to your point I think.

At this point, what are we discussing in this thread?

I think it's plainly obvious that Bernie and his campaign have a lot of work to do if they want to have a real shot at the nomination. He needs on Obama 08 level ground game, and he needed it yesterday.

It will be really interesting to see how it plays out and if tonight makes much of a difference. I don't think it will unless someone gafffffffffssssssss big. Hillary is too experienced a debater to do that, but you never know. I still think that the more exposure Bernie gets, the better he'll do, but again I don't think one debates' worth will matter too much at this point.

 

[kirblar]

Just a quick reminder - most black Democrat's voted for the various crime bills in the 80's and 90's, including the increase in the Drug War, because that's what their community wanted. Their children were getting hooked on drugs, dying, and destroying the neighborhoods that they had built. It wasn't until it became obvious later on in the 90's and early 00's that the Drug War had become an excuse to jail black American's that the younger parts of the black community turned on it.

You can question whether it was good policy or not from the jump, but be fair here - there was a crime issue, and the Congressional Black Caucus wasn't exactly standing up against Bill.

People growing up in the 00s near exclusively dont really get how different a pre internet, pre lead-based crime drop USA was.

 

[Dai101]

Nope card has been played

 

[Veritigo_X]

Got a 98% on both..

Did you manually subtract out the corporate neocon shill penalty though?

 

[Your Entertainer]

Bernie Sander ssupporters are very vocal and dislike that most mainstream and reliable polls have him losing to Hillary. He's been her closest competition since the primary started, but the gap has always been large in some key demographics that you need to beat Hillary in. It's hard to accept that you favorite candidate is losing to a woman who killed dabbing and has taken campaign contributions from big political spenders.

Are you invoking the sexism card? I don't think it accounts for much at all in terms of why Bernie supporters support him over Hillary.

 

[JesseEwiak]

People growing up in the 00s near exclusively dont really get how different a pre internet, pre lead-based crime drop USA was.

Yup, while racism was a big part of it, it wasn't the only reason you could get a cheap apartment near Times Square in 1983 New York.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Ladies and Gentlemen: Someone without shit to actually say.

OK, fine. I didn't mean to be a drive by poster but I don't really have time or keyboard to type out my position. To summarize though, I think Sanders is too much of a risk in the general. Communism is still abbig scare. If a terror attack happens during the campaign, he's pretty much doomed, while Hillary can still get the votes with her international experience.

Secondly, any Sanders-initiated bill will be dead on arrival in Congress, while Hillary has the inroads to work at least somewhat with both sides of the aisle. I don't understand what's so controversial about my stance.

 

[Vice]

Are you invoking the sexism card? I don't think it accounts for much at all in terms of why Bernie supporters support him over Hillary.

Not at all. He's the underdog/outsider candidate and people get very into those. The best examples are probably Donald Trump, the Tea Party and Ron Paul. By simply positioning yourself outside of the way that a typical Dem or GOP candidate is presented you'll get a very vocal and passionate base that will campaign for you as hard as possible, no matter what your chances actually are compared to a more mainstream and easily electable opponent.
Those type of bases can be a huge asset or a huge detriment to a cause. The same things that may Bernie fans have problems with (typical career politicians and corporate influence) are what supports of Trump and Carson are upset about as well and they can be very grating to more politically moderate people who have accepted that their politicians are flawed and that they just want whoever is least flawed.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Yeah....about that:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=192129818&postcount=80

Yeah, i said that, and i double down on it.

I don't think Hillary deserves to be President. I will vote for Bernie in the primary round, and if he does not go further, i will not vote for Hillary.

And i do feel that those people who will vote for Hillary in the primaries, even knowing of many things about her record aren't taking a principled stance on the issues.

As i said before, a lot of people do not see this fight as a fight between a conservative dem and a liberal, but a fight between corporate interests versus fair governance. And in that position, there's nothing else i can do but abstain over supporting a flawed system by definition just so that the house of cards stays up for a little while longer.

There will be plenty of people, including Bernie who would do such a thing, many of us are not as reasonable as he is.

I understand that people see this kind of view as 'selfish', but many people see the opposite view as cowardly and self defeatist on the level of Tea partiers hating bailouts by voting for GOP members who collude with Wall Street fraudsters

Did you guys see Killer Mike pandering to white folk on Colbert, with the same Dr. King nonsense? He's basically an Uncle Tom at this point. Bruh, just vote for Hillary if you care about black values. We don't need your condescending apocalyptic scare tactics.

Ok, we've gotten to the point where Killer Mike is an "uncle tom" because he supports Bernie Sanders and not Hillary, who along with her husband has been more detrimental in the past 30 years to black lives by supporting the private prison complex and harsher penalty sentencing for lower tier or non violent offenses and financial deregulation combined than any other administration. Wow.

That is what i mean when i say people have to get some goddamn sense of perspective instead kneejerk attacking.

I love it when people refer to Hillary as center rightish because it makes absolutely zero goddamn sense.

What is liberal in your mind? Because our definitions must be pretty different to say something like that, just based on Hillary Clinton's statements and records.

For me, a liberal s not having a handful of policy positions that happen to not be conservative.

 

[EatinOlives]

What is liberal in your mind? Because our definitions must be pretty different to say something like that, just based on Hillary Clinton's statements and records.

For me, a liberal s not having a handful of policy positions that happen to not be conservative.

What are your isidewith.com results? Because I have a feeling Hillary is much higher on your list than you'll want to admit...

 

[dramatis]

Are you invoking the sexism card? I don't think it accounts for much at all in terms of why Bernie supporters support him over Hillary.

Well, sure sexism is probably not the reason why Bernie supporters support him over Hillary, but there certainly is sexist behavior coming from that camp. The very first response in this thread asks if people are only lining up behind Hillary because she's a woman.

In the DNC data breach thread, you complained about "FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT" in three separate posts.

There wouldn't be a sexism card to play if you weren't acting sexist, just saying.

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't think Hillary deserves to be President. I will vote for Bernie in the primary round, and if he does not go further, i will not vote for Hillary.

Ah.

As i said before, a lot of people do not see this fight as a fight between a conservative dem and a liberal, but a fight between corporate interests versus fair governance. And in that position, there's nothing else i can do but abstain over supporting a flawed system by definition just so that the house of cards stays up for a little while longer.

Considering that house of cards is still needed for some folks to live basic lives or retain their humanity, I'll support it until something better comes along.

There will be plenty of people, including Bernie who would do such a thing, many of us are not as reasonable as he is.

I understand that people see this kind of view as 'selfish', but many people see the opposite view as cowardly and self defeatist on the level of Tea partiers hating bailouts by voting for GOP members who collude with Wall Street fraudsters

Well, at least you acknowledge Bernie would be reasonable about it and throw his vote towards the nominated Democrat candidate. And you acknowledge how it can be seen as selfish.

 

[HK-47]

Broad strokes. Looks like I'm in a kindergarten class. No attention to detail. Bernie has been working for GLBT rights his entire life and he'll continue that for as long as he shall live. Keep living in whatever fantasy world you're in. I don't know any Bernie supporters trying to work against the GLBT movement for equality. I do know Hillary Clinton not too long ago was trying to do that though.

Someone is in kindergarten alright.

 

[User 73706]

I, for one, think white moderates will be totally level-headed following Hillary being elected. There's virtually no chance they blame The Blacks™ for not knowing how to vote right.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah, i said that, and i double down on it.

I don't think Hillary deserves to be President. I will vote for Bernie in the primary round, and if he does not go further, i will not vote for Hillary.

And i do feel that those people who will vote for Hillary in the primaries, even knowing of many things about her record aren't taking a principled stance on the issues.

As i said before, a lot of people do not see this fight as a fight between a conservative dem and a liberal, but a fight between corporate interests versus fair governance. And in that position, there's nothing else i can do but abstain over supporting a flawed system by definition just so that the house of cards stays up for a little while longer.

There will be plenty of people, including Bernie who would do such a thing, many of us are not as reasonable as he is.

I understand that people see this kind of view as 'selfish', but many people see the opposite view as cowardly and self defeatist on the level of Tea partiers hating bailouts by voting for GOP members who collude with Wall Street fraudsters



Ok, we've gotten to the point where Killer Mike is an "uncle tom" because he supports Bernie Sanders and not Hillary, who along with her husband has been more detrimental in the past 30 years to black lives by supporting the private prison complex and harsher penalty sentencing for lower tier or non violent offenses and financial deregulation combined than any other administration. Wow.

That is what i mean when i say people have to get some goddamn sense of perspective instead kneejerk attacking.



What is liberal in your mind? Because our definitions must be pretty different to say something like that, just based on Hillary Clinton's statements and records.

For me, a liberal s not having a handful of policy positions that happen to not be conservative.

Refusing to vote against the GOP is empowering oppression, but good on ya for being "principled"

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Ok, we've gotten to the point where Killer Mike is an "uncle tom" because he supports Bernie Sanders and not Hillary, who along with her husband has been more detrimental in the past 30 years to black lives by supporting the private prison complex and harsher penalty sentencing for lower tier or non violent offenses and financial deregulation combined than any other administration. Wow.

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread. Yeah, we get it. You want all Blacks to vote for your guy, and you expect all Blacks to fall in line like good little Civil Rights recipients. Sorry, that's not gonna work this time.

Edit: ok, I exaggerated about the prison/sentences out of anger, but I'll still take my chances with Clinton. It's not the '90s anymore and I doubt she'll continue her husband's record in that regard.

 

[dsp]

Did you guys see Killer Mike pandering to white folk on Colbert, with the same Dr. King nonsense? He's basically an Uncle Tom at this point. Bruh, just vote for Hillary if you care about black values. We don't need your condescending apocalyptic scare tactics.

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread. Yeah, we get it. You want all Blacks to vote for your guy, and you expect all Blacks to fall in line like good little Civil Rights recipients. Sorry, that's not gonna work this time.

...

Are you drunk, man?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread.

I understand that the patronizing sense among some Bernie fans that he doesn't need to earn your vote is disrespectful, but it's also bizarre to see people push back against Bernie since a) neither his words nor his actions suggest he buys that claim--he clearly personally feels like he needs to earn it and I think even his harsher critics can agree that he responded to the BLM criticism not by feeling entitled to their votes but by working with them to make race a more central part of his campaign, b) the push back is almost never grounded in a substantive critique of his policies as compared to any other candidate's.

It's also weird that you have no problem going to obvious hyperbole--because you obviously don't actually wish for hundreds of thousands of people of colour to have their life ruined by brutal injustice just so you don't need to put up with internet complaining on a forum when you can obviously close your browser--but you seem to be interpreting Bernie fans at face value without considering they might be being hyperbolic. Maybe they don't actually believe what they're saying either?

 

[AlphaDump]

What are your isidewith.com results? Because I have a feeling Hillary is much higher on your list than you'll want to admit...

Yes. That would be very interesting.

 

[smurfx]

john kerry's presidential run killed any chances of me ever voting for somebody from the north east. as much as i like what bernie has to say he just has that john kerry stink to him.

 

[Tesseract]

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread. Yeah, we get it. You want all Blacks to vote for your guy, and you expect all Blacks to fall in line like good little Civil Rights recipients. Sorry, that's not gonna work this time.

Edit: ok, I exaggerated about the prison/sentences out of anger, but I'll still take my chances with Clinton. It's not the '90s anymore and I doubt she'll continue her husband's record in that regard.

is that really your takeaway from bernie's campaign? please visit his site, mull over the data.

he's fighting for everyone except the dirty establishment, which has ruined america.

 

[UltimaPooh]

john kerry's presidential run killed any chances of me ever voting for somebody from the north east.

You know Hilary is from there right?

 

[Enzom21]

...

Are you drunk, man?

No, it's satire. He's trying to be clever, it's more of the "You negroes are voting against your best interests." nonsense. He's hand waving any criticism of Sanders and some of his shit supporters by mocking black people.

 

[BigDes]

Did you guys see Killer Mike pandering to white folk on Colbert, with the same Dr. King nonsense? He's basically an Uncle Tom at this point. Bruh, just vote for Hillary if you care about black values. We don't need your condescending apocalyptic scare tactics.

So what is the point of posts like this?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

No, it's satire. He's trying to be clever, it's more of the "You negroes are voting against your best interests." nonsense. He's hand waving any criticism of Sanders and some of his shit supporters by mocking black people.

I wish it were satire. I wish this whole thing was a stupid dream. But there are still people out there who think they can tell people of color who the "right person to vote for is." If someone truly believes in equality and freedom, that person would understand that autonomy is the most important tenet of those two values. You can't tell a person what's in that person's best interest. The ability to decide that for yourself is at the very heart of freedom. So you'll forgive me for getting mad at some (usually) white Twitterites trying to tell others to eat their vegetables if they want to grow up big and strong.

 

[theignoramus]

Killer Mike an Uncle Tom?
I hope that was a joke post otherwise FOH with that nonsense.

 

[The Maverick]

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread. Yeah, we get it. You want all Blacks to vote for your guy, and you expect all Blacks to fall in line like good little Civil Rights recipients. Sorry, that's not gonna work this time.

Edit: ok, I exaggerated about the prison/sentences out of anger, but I'll still take my chances with Clinton. It's not the '90s anymore and I doubt she'll continue her husband's record in that regard.

Congratulations on lowering the bar for discourse in this thread, and for being a jackass. Especially with calling Killer Mike out of his name. Congrats.

 

[SolicitorPirate]

Honestly, at this point I'd rather have an expanding private prison complex with harsher penalties on people of color than the condescending, patronizing whitesplaining being done by Bernie fans in this thread. Yeah, we get it. You want all Blacks to vote for your guy, and you expect all Blacks to fall in line like good little Civil Rights recipients. Sorry, that's not gonna work this time.

Edit: ok, I exaggerated about the prison/sentences out of anger, but I'll still take my chances with Clinton. It's not the '90s anymore and I doubt she'll continue her husband's record in that regard.

While obviously hyperbolic, I'm pretty sympathetic towards this post. I'm not even American, but the behaviour of a lot of the Sanders faithful on GAF and around the internet feels like a mob of white people screaming at me that they know whats good for me.

 

[Enzom21]

I wish it were satire. I wish this whole thing was a stupid dream. But there are still people out there who think they can tell people of color who the "right person to vote for is." If someone truly believes in equality and freedom, that person would understand that autonomy is the most important tenet of those two values. You can't tell a person what's in that person's best interest. The ability to decide that for yourself is at the very heart of freedom. So you'll forgive me for getting mad at some (usually) white Twitterites trying to tell others to eat their vegetables if they want to grow up big and strong.

Wait you're satirizing Sanders supporters?

 

[Dicktatorship]

It's ok Bernie, just walk it off.

Spoiler

Just make sure you walk next to a more trendy and current African American and tell everyone about it.

Spoiler

 

[ZZMitch]

What are your isidewith.com results? Because I have a feeling Hillary is much higher on your list than you'll want to admit...

This is a cool website, thanks for sharing!

Mine was 97% Sanders, 95% Hillary and the rest were down in the 30s or below.

 

[BowieZ]

How scientific is this survey?

Only 400 voters polled nationally? From which area? Landlines, mobiles? What options were they given in the poll -- ie were they read out the "I don't know/undecided" option or was it a leading question that forced them to pick a name they probably recognised more? Was any information about the candidates given during the poll?

These factors all wildly influence the results of a poll. And while they probably generally reflect a trend (women likelier to support Clinton, etc.), a full sample of around 1,500 voters accurately spread across each state, and depending on how the questions and answers were framed, could give a closer result. The margin of error is based solely on the voter poll size but not demographic quality or questionnaire quality.

But yeah, either way, here we see Clinton's strongarming for a minimal number of debates is paying dividends.

 

[Kinvara]

Instead of getting into a "who has the worst fans discussion".

Let's watch the actual Dem debate.

 

[valkillmore]

Why they not cutting her off

 

[TheWarrior]

She'd be a lot more popular if she were a man, women in politics have to deal with a lot more double standards due to sexism.

Yeah, Sarah Palin comes to mind.

 

[Quixzlizx]

I wish it were satire. I wish this whole thing was a stupid dream. But there are still people out there who think they can tell people of color who the "right person to vote for is." If someone truly believes in equality and freedom, that person would understand that autonomy is the most important tenet of those two values. You can't tell a person what's in that person's best interest. The ability to decide that for yourself is at the very heart of freedom. So you'll forgive me for getting mad at some (usually) white Twitterites trying to tell others to eat their vegetables if they want to grow up big and strong.

If it makes you feel any better, they are just as condescending toward non-millionaire whites who vote Republican.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

You know Bernie, I really don't feel like that speech is resonating with enough people so he should really try and switch it up.

Edit: I am in the wrong topic

 

[excelsiorlef]

You know Hilary is from there right?

Chicago is in the North East?


You're point stands.... I'm just being an ass XD

How scientific is this survey?

Only 400 voters polled nationally? From which area? Landlines, mobiles? What options were they given in the poll -- ie were they read out the "I don't know/undecided" option or was it a leading question that forced them to pick a name they probably recognised more? Was any information about the candidates given during the poll?

These factors all wildly influence the results of a poll. And while they probably generally reflect a trend (women likelier to support Clinton, etc.), a full sample of around 1,500 voters accurately spread across each state, and depending on how the questions and answers were framed, could give a closer result. The margin of error is based solely on the voter poll size but not demographic quality or questionnaire quality.

But yeah, either way, here we see Clinton's strongarming for a minimal number of debates is paying dividends.

She's won every single one of them

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Well I can't believe it. I got Hilary over Bernie,....by a single point. Last time I got Bernie but that was months ago.

They must've rigged that survey.

For any wondering actual percentages, for myself:

Hilary - 92%

Bernie - 91%

Martin - 80%

Jim - 60%

Jeb - 53%

Carson - 44%

Trump - 44%

John - 43%

Rand - 39%

Marco - 37%

Carly - 33%

Cruz - 28%

Rick - 16%

 

[Angry Grimace]

So basically she's winning amongst demographics that vote.

Instead of getting into a "who has the worst fans discussion".

Let's watch the actual Dem debate.

We've already had some and to the alarm of many, Hilary didn't come off as psychotic in any of them.

 

[oneils]

That's honestly your fault for not divorcing the followers from the candidate.

Not that I agree with his/her view of electing Bernie.

I think it's statements like this that kind of sour people on sanders. They pretty much say "if you don't want to vote for sanders, then there is something wrong with you." It's no ones fault if they don't want to vote for him. It's sanders' fault.

The sooner his supporters and his campaign understand this, the sooner he will gain more support.

 

[watershed]

Moderators giving Hillary all the time in the world question after question.
Edit: oops wrong thread.

 

[Valhelm]

Is this a fluke?

 

[UraMallas]

Huh. Was not expecting Bernie over Hillary:

 

[B-Dubs]

Is this a fluke?

Focus groups aren't good for discovering trends, they're good for explaining the thinking behind them. If I do a poll and find people like cheese, I'd form a focus group to explain why people like cheese.

EDIT: Basically this guy is doing it wrong, focus groups aren't used for the thing he's using it for.

 

[lupinko]

Good lord.

 

[googleplex]

Yeah, i said that, and i double down on it.

I don't think Hillary deserves to be President. I will vote for Bernie in the primary round, and if he does not go further, i will not vote for Hillary.

And i do feel that those people who will vote for Hillary in the primaries, even knowing of many things about her record aren't taking a principled stance on the issues.

As i said before, a lot of people do not see this fight as a fight between a conservative dem and a liberal, but a fight between corporate interests versus fair governance. And in that position, there's nothing else i can do but abstain over supporting a flawed system by definition just so that the house of cards stays up for a little while longer.

There will be plenty of people, including Bernie who would do such a thing, many of us are not as reasonable as he is.

I understand that people see this kind of view as 'selfish', but many people see the opposite view as cowardly and self defeatist on the level of Tea partiers hating bailouts by voting for GOP members who collude with Wall Street fraudsters



Ok, we've gotten to the point where Killer Mike is an "uncle tom" because he supports Bernie Sanders and not Hillary, who along with her husband has been more detrimental in the past 30 years to black lives by supporting the private prison complex and harsher penalty sentencing for lower tier or non violent offenses and financial deregulation combined than any other administration. Wow.

That is what i mean when i say people have to get some goddamn sense of perspective instead kneejerk attacking.



What is liberal in your mind? Because our definitions must be pretty different to say something like that, just based on Hillary Clinton's statements and records.

For me, a liberal s not having a handful of policy positions that happen to not be conservative.

I'm going to go out of a limb and say your white, male and Sight. IE someone who's life won't be adversely effected if a Republican is elected president.

 

[Nickle]

It's time for Grandpa Bernie

 

[rjinaz]

I'm going to go out of a limb and say your white, male and Sight. IE someone who's life won't be adversely effected if a Republican is elected president.

And I still can't understand it. Not voting doesn't send a message. It doesn't actually do anything other than something inside your own head. Actually that's not true, it does do something. It's one less vote that then helps put in a horrible human being as president of the United States that will negatively effect the lives of minorities. Trump thanks you for your support!