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[Skulduggery]

Uhhh clinics exist in a single payer system

Sure, but the organization overall would be effectively obsolete with the introduction of a country-wide single payer system, no? Anything that is a piece of or as a result of our current medical system is pretty much going out the door if he succeeds, which is fantastic.

Shouldn't we worry about the Congress or the Senate before worrying about PP liking this policy?

Not the point I was trying to make, but yeah, definitely.

 

[Foffy]

..How is this establishment, though? Huh?

Maybe the way we've made an issue out of it, but that's the domain of the thought, not the domain of the organization.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Ohhh so they picked a side and it wasn't yours. Awful of them.




The issue with campaign finance reform is largely that super pacs are secretive entities. PP donating has fuck all to do with these gaint secretive super pacs. They're not the enemy when talking about campaign finance reform. Maybe bernie fans can shit up PP's twitter like they did the HRC.

What's the purpose of having primaries if the national party picks a golden child?

 

[Crosseyes]

I can see where he's coming from. With the objective to really reform campaign financing he would want every organization despite of its political leanings not able to spend the money and exploit their influence to gain power over the people's will. But naming direct allies to the Democrats cause like that was a pretty poor decision.

I mean fairness is all well and good in theory but you need to let your allies know you've got their back not put them in the firing line of your policies even if technically they would be.

 

[Siegcram]

IIRC he was specifically asked about PP and HRC backing Clinton because it was unusual in the sense that PP especially has never backed a candidate in the primary process before, that's why he mentioned both of them.

I know, but it is still a logical reaction on their part after what transpired in the aftermath of the manipulated videos. To lump them in with "the establishment" because of it makes no sense.

 

[fantomena]

So honest question, Im not american so I don't follow these elections: How will this hurt Bernie? Will he lose many of his supporters or what will happen?

 

[Fenderputty]

What's the purpose of having primaries if the national party picks a golden child?

People didn't pick the golden child in 08', but Bernie is no Obama.

 

[Baron von Loathsome]

 

[excelsiorlef]

No. It's an indictment of how he's playing the game. I'm saying that if he were to continue to make statements like this and allow them to be viewed in such a manner in the general, it would be an easily exploitable weakness.

Dude needs to play smarter.

And this is just in the preliminary round against an opponent who frankly has gone easy. Imagine the sound bytes if he goes to the GE against a GOP opponent with all the resources of that party who is out for blood.

 

[Veritigo_X]

So honest question, Im not american so I don't follow these elections: How will this hurt Bernie? Will he lose many of his supporters or what will happen?

He won't lose any supporters over this because it goes along with his overall message that his supporters like. It will give demographics that he is struggling with some pause before moving support over to him.

 

[RustyNails]

Planned Parenthood has been demonized enough already by Republican assholes. No need for Democrats to start firing from the left.

 

[legacyzero]

Most of the people doing that in this thread weren't going to vote for Sanders anyway because they believe Hillary has a better shot against the Republican nominee in the general. Don't worry too much about them. I'd say the bigger issue is that it's going to reach more uninformed individuals who will read it and discredit Sanders without looking for or understanding the context which, quite frankly, is why it's a pretty big gaffe and Sanders can only blame himself for it.

When you run a campaign, you have to be on your toes at all times. Anything you say that can be misconstrued WILL be turned into a sound bite that can damage the entire thing, even if it's incredibly innocuous.

Now THIS makes sense.

 

[Mael]

So honest question, Im not american so I don't follow these elections: How will this hurt Bernie? Will he lose many of his supporters or what will happen?

He has an issue with getting support from women and minorities.
He basically can't win the nomination if they vote for Clinton.
Clinton already has their support for one reason or another.
He won't win any hearts by basically shitting on organizations that are dear to women and minorities.
If this is the kind of misstep he does in the primary, Trump is going to eat him alive too.

 

[Arkeband]

Yeah, this shit is embarrassing.

Bernie speaks frankly (most posters in here even admit they see what he was going for)
Hillary campaign creates FUD
Hillary endorsers perpetuate FUD
Bernie supporters react

Better condemn that last step.

 

[finowns]

I hardly agree with what he said hut you guys are acting like he just said he wants to destroy planned parenthood.

My thoughts also. Bernie Sanders threads are always interesting though, I don't miss one.

 

[Karsticles]

Planned Parenthood is an agency that receives government funding, but backs candidates that are part of the status quo. "Taking on the establishment" doesn't mean destroying it. It just means that Planned Parenthood is part of the force that's trying to keep Sanders out of office, and thus he has to take them on as part of his journey to get there. It seems like people are adding unnecessary hostility to his comment, unless there's more to it than what has been presented.

 

[Camp1nCarl]

Even if I can kind of seeing what he is alluding too, as others have pointed out, this is definitely fighting the wrong battle and can potentially alienate more supporters of him. Guess we will have to wait and see if he clarifies his points at all or this is used against him in the future.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Sure, but the organization overall would be effectively obsolete with the introduction of a country-wide single payer system, no? Anything that is a piece of or as a result of our current medical system is pretty much going out the door if he succeeds, which is fantastic.


Not the point I was trying to make, but yeah, definitely.

No. They're health care providers. We have PP in Canada.

 

[onadesertedisland]

There seems to be a false equivalence of Bernie supporters to Ron Paul supporters. What Bernie campaigns on are stronger versions of what Hillary campaigns on, not diametrically opposing viewpoints. Bernie is rightly upset that the national Democratic party is doing anything they can to undermine his campaign.

 

[Skulduggery]

He won't win any hearts by basically shitting on organizations that are dear to women and minorities.

Can we stop for a second and address this? Why is being labelled as a part of the establishment constitute being shat on?

 

[Veritigo_X]

Bernie speaks frankly (most posters in here even admit they see what he was going for)
Hillary campaign creates FUD
Hillary endorsers perpetuate FUD
Bernie supporters react

Better condemn that last step.

Except they seem to reacting to the endorsement itself.

PP and HRC endorse Hillary
Bernie supporters react

As a reaction to an endorsement the stuff I'm seeing is embarrassing.

 

[benicillin]

I know, but it is still a logical reaction on their part after what transpired in the aftermath of the manipulated videos. To lump them in with "the establishment" because of it makes no sense.

Wasn't a great soundbite, wish he would have worded it differently, but it's pretty obvious Bernie has no problem with Planned Parenthood and he was just responding to Maddow's question about whether or not he was actively seeking these kinds of endorsements. A big part of his public policy discusses increasing PP funding and how they provide a vital service to women in the country.

 

[Lime]

This is like watching Knicks play basketball

 

[Bay Maximus]

Comes across to me more as not saying those groups specifically, just "some of" the groups that Clinton allies with. It seems more like it was just poorly worded.

This is what I got from his comment. I sincerely doubt he is against PP and the Human Rights Campaign.

I found his comments on reparations much more concerning.

 

[Lights and Waves]

This is getting virtually no press coverage...

 

[Mael]

There seems to be a false equivalence of Bernie supporters to Ron Paul supporters. What Bernie campaigns on are stronger versions of what Hillary campaigns on, not diametrically opposing viewpoints. Bernie is rightly upset that the national Democratic party is doing anything they can to undermine his campaign.

To be fair he does that mighty fine by himself.

Can we stop for a second and address this? Why is being labelled as a part of the establishment constitute being shat on?

Because with the narrative he's pushing that he's against the establishment and want it gone it's easy to point out that he wants these org dead (even if that's not what he wants or even says).
It's really simple politics, he should have evaded the question or found a better answer.
This is literally the worst kind of message to let the media sort out by itself.
This is also perfect for anyone trying to push the narrative that he doesn't give a crap about minorities and women.

 

[Armaros]

Can we stop for a second and address this? Why is being labelled as a part of the establishment constitute being shat on?

Because he is putting them in the same category as Wall Street, and you see how much time Bernie spends shitting on Wall Street (with good reason)

 

[injurai]

This is getting virtually no press coverage...

Bernie gets no press coverage anyways. Good or bad.

Because he is putting them in the same category as Wall Street, and you see how much time Bernie spends shitting on Wall Street (with good reason)

At this point it's you drawing the false equivalence, not Sanders.

 

[Ogrekiller]

There seems to be a false equivalence of Bernie supporters to Ron Paul supporters. What Bernie campaigns on are stronger versions of what Hillary campaigns on, not diametrically opposing viewpoints. Bernie is rightly upset that the national Democratic party is doing anything they can to undermine his campaign.

But that's what happens when you don't identify yourself as part of the party for 20 years and then come in and try to ride the party's coattails to the nomination.

If you don't put in the time how can you expect to reap the reward?

 

[googleplex]

This goes to the very heart of what many of us, that will be voting for Hillary have been saying about Bernie. We have no confidence that Bernie can win the General election and nothing he's done do far has proven other wise. This statement included.

 

[metalslimer]

Sure has somewhat of a point but boy is he a terrible candidate. This is the guy that would get a GOP congress to pass things?

 

[excelsiorlef]

For the record not even my title says he's against PP. He literally did say he's taking on the establishment and that PP is part of it.

No one thinks he's anti-abortion

 

[paparazzo]

Between his non-apology apology of the data breach, his "radical change" comments from the '80s, his UHC plan and now this, we're entering Ben Carson levels of bizarre. Can this weirdo go away already?

 

[And_Gignac]

What he meant is clear (he is talking about the endorsement and the leaders who decided to give it to Clinton, not the organization itself). The titte is an absolute reach but it doesnt surprise me coming from hardcore Clinton supporters.

 

[Dude Abides]

Kind of sad to see a good guy making this kind of blunder.

Does Bernie think that CWA and NNU are part of the establishment that he's fighting?

 

[RustyNails]

Can we stop for a second and address this? Why is being labelled as a part of the establishment constitute being shat on?

Because Bernie and his support absolutely comes from people tired of "the establishment". Any Bernie supporter can tell you why "the establishment" sucks.

 

[Armaros]

Bernie gets no press coverage anyways. Good or bad.



At this point it's you drawing the false equivalence, not Sanders.

Um he has been equating the establishment and the Wall Street folks the fund them the entire campaign.

So what do you think is going to happen when he starts railing against orginzations like PP as 'establishment' ?


Edit: his quoted statement below has him comparing Wall Street to political establishments and then he names PP and HRC.

 

[M0nochromatic]

Oh I have no clue. Im pointing out that its being ran with by the groups themselves that he mentioned.

NOT JUST "ZoMG GAF OVERREACTING! Derp"

Any damage to your campaign is bad damage.

It's not Gaf, it's clearly Hill Stans. Indeed, if he can't talk about big money and the problem with SPACs without being made out as a diet sexist, he has a problem.

I'll thank you not to imply I would use zomg, the derp is harsh, but fair however.

 

[excelsiorlef]

What he meant is clear (he is talking about the endorsement and the leaders who decided to give it to Clinton, not the organization itself). The titte is an absolute reach but it doesnt surprise me coming from hardcore Clinton supporters.

Not what he said though
“And so I have friends and supporters in the Human Rights [Campaign], in Planned Parenthood,” he added. “But you know what? Hillary Clinton has been around there for a very, very long time, and some of these groups are, in fact, part of the establishment.”

 

[fantomena]

For the record not even my title says he's against PP. He literally did say he's taking on the establishment and that PP is part of it.

No one thinks he's anti-abortion

There's always a dozen of people twisting words and taking words and sentences out of context.

"Planned Parenthood is a part of the establlizshment together with Wall Street"
"Im against Planned Parenthood and they are criminals just like Wall Street"

 

[Vicetrailia]

What does he mean by establishment? Donors?

 

[excelsiorlef]

There's always a dozen of people twisting words and taking words and sentences out of context.

"Planned Parenthood is a part of the establlizshment together with Wall Street"
"Im against Planned Parenthood and they are criminals just like Wall Street"

There's a million ways to not say what he did. Point is if he misspeaks this easily when he's not really being attacked all that much. Imagine what he'll say when he's really under attack by the GOP machine

 

[docbon]

Maybe bernie fans can shit up PP's twitter like they did the HRC.

They can't though lolol

Right after PP endorsed Hillary, their twitter account started autoblocking anyone who mentioned Bernie in any context.

 

[onadesertedisland]

But that's what happens when you don't identify yourself as part of the party for 20 years and then come in and try to ride the party's coattails to the nomination.

If you don't put in the time how can you expect to reap the reward?

Bernie could be running as a third party and ensuring a Trump presidency too, but he isn't and won't even if he doesn't get the nomination. The party should support all candidates equally to ensure that the best one wins the nomination for the best possible outcome of the national election. Picking favorites by the national Democratic party creates a problem that quality candidates will not run because establishment candidates will receive better support. This is the problem.

 

[Nickle]

Bernie needs to learn to play politics better. Hillary is the best candidate because she's basically a political entity devoid of human emotions.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Kind of sad to see a good guy making this kind of blunder.

Does Bernie think that CWA and NNU are part of the establishment that he's fighting?

That'd be silly..

 

[dramatis]

There seems to be a false equivalence of Bernie supporters to Ron Paul supporters. What Bernie campaigns on are stronger versions of what Hillary campaigns on, not diametrically opposing viewpoints. Bernie is rightly upset that the national Democratic party is doing anything they can to undermine his campaign.

I don't think the Democratic party has been doing very much to undermine his campaign. Did they not accept him into the Democratic primary, a party that he deliberately didn't join until it was politically expedient for him? Did they not offer him access to their information, which his campaign mishandled, and then largely let him and his campaign go unpunished because they whined a lot on social media? Did the party spend a lot of time attacking him for his campaign's mistakes? Did the party mostly leave him and his campaign alone with very limited attacks until now?

What have they done to actually undermine his campaign?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Kind of sad to see a good guy making this kind of blunder.

Does Bernie think that CWA and NNU are part of the establishment that he's fighting?

No, obviously if they side with him they're fighting the good fight. If they don't, they're the evil empire. *eyeroll*

Dude is not earning himself any new fans outside of Reddit neckbeards.

 

[Mael]

It begins.
PP and HRC are calling Sanders out on this.
I don't see how this helps Sanders at all, can someone explain to me like I'm 5?

 

[Jas]

There's a million ways to not say what he did. Point is of he misspeaks this easily when he's not really being attacked all that much. Imagine what he'll say when he's really under attack by the GOP machine

Why not have a link to the interview in the OP instead of just a second hand source? Someone posted it earlier in the thread.

The quote is taken out of context, I can only assume that excelsiorlef didn't care enough to actually watch the interview and, like practically every poster in this thread, has been swept up in the outrage machine.

It begins at 7:58

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/sanders-up-for-more-debates-with-dnc-or-not-604730435856

What Bernie Sanders was essentially saying is, though he knows that Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights Campaign have thrown in with Hilary, she has a lot more political power than he does, and it was never his intention to rely on their endorsement and that his campaign strategy is by-and-large a grassroots one.