excelsiorlef
Member
Uhhh no.
Sanders calls Planned Parenthood part of the Political Establishment he's taking on
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Uhhh no.
loki 16
Member
Sometimes Bernie is to honest for his own good.
Ogrekiller
Member
But it IS a zero sum game.
If Democrats lose, then Republicans gain.
And when Republicans gain they will do everything they can to retain power and dismantle everything.
There will ALWAYS be a loser.
Look at the Tea Party.
they succeeded in basically getting their way by basically going out and voting.
The Congress is ineffectual and you can't pass any policy which is actually part of what they wanted all along.
Voting really does work.
No one is forcing you to vote for the obvious "corrupt" choice.
The TP managed to get rid of most of the politicians they deemed "corrupt", why do you think the GOP is so scared of the right that they're pandering to them like no tomorrow?
I'd give up mate.. Narratives were injected into this thread that weren't being made. But are being argued and peanut galleried around. As if their confusion is evidence of the truth they wanted to see in the thread?
I said earlier, most of the thread is slapping their foreheads at a slight misstep. But theres another part of the thread who is going after people.. with their own madeup arguments... Its weird.
I fell off around page 4.. but even then, not wall of people were saying OMG BERNIE IS ANTI-Planned Parenthood now! Its been "damn bernie, coulda chosen how you said things a bit better as its a political game you're playing."
Hes got PP talking shit to him on twitter and the other group now. Its not just people on neogaf responding to his stumble.
Fenderputty
Banned
He's attacking their ability to contribute to campaigns. Not their actual work as an organization.
I have. People have largely just criticized his comments as stupid and politically inept. He's not doing a very good job of defining what "establishment" is or why he's so hard up on it he brings up PP when talking about wall street.
IamDodongo
Member
This is depressingly accurate
He is against the establishment, yes. And the concentration of power, yes.
But i'm saying to you that it was not a poor choice of words at all. Bernie Sanders said the truth of the matter in regards to who his competition had on their side by nature of her power in Washington.
And so the implication that he hates labor and union groups if they disagree with him, and trying to paint him as someone like that is so slimy its sickening.
Veritigo_X
Member
Too true and it's depressing to see.
legacyzero
Banned
Exactly.
People are freaking out as if Bernie is against what PP stands for in regards to women's health.
He's always stood for equal rights, choice, etc.
This changes nothing.
If anything, Bernie has been a little TOO on message during his campaign.
What? Rachel named Planned Parenthood and HRC HERSELF as endorsements directly against him!
He responded to those claims!
I don't understand what your saying!
NullPointer
Member
I'm not seeing the problem here.
What am I supposed to be worried about? That he'd defund or dismantle or somehow marginalize Planned Parenthood? That he's opposed to them on reproductive rights and women's health?
Because I really can't go there.
What am I supposed to be worried about? That he'd defund or dismantle or somehow marginalize Planned Parenthood? That he's opposed to them on reproductive rights and women's health?
Because I really can't go there.
neurosisxeno
Member
If I recall PP and HRC both endorsed Hillary besides the fact that Sanders has a better record in the issues important to both organizations. That's essentially an admission on their part that the candidate that best represents them doesn't matter if the establishment/DNC supports another.
And the message is bull.
If Bernie wanted a leg to stand on here he'd equally criticize the establishment endorsements his own campaign has received, but he hasn't. And fact of the matter is if PP had endorsed him over Hillary he'd be singing their praises about hoping on his revolution.
It was an incredibly stupid response to a question that didn't call for all that.
excelsiorlef
Member
PP layed out clearly why the chose Hillary. She actually created the legislation. Bernie didnt. They were super complimentary to him as well.
legacyzero
Banned
That doesn't change my point, or his. But we can continue to outrage and call his campaign over because of a trivial choice of words LOL
Edit: and besides, Id be salty too if gay rights establishment backed a candidate that wasnt even for marriage equality back in the 90's.
Sorry, I'm on mobile.
My gist is Bernie should have just moved on instead of stuffed his foot in his mouth. Nobody thinks he's defunding PP, but it was still a stupid answer that could do a lot of harm to PP's current cause of "Just staying afloat".
Fenderputty
Banned
Brought up by Dude Abides earlier in the thread with specific names and amounts. Largely ignored by the Bernie fans
I am just really confused. People seem to be talking out of all sides of their mouth with this sort of thing, and its reached a hysterical pitch.
"Fuck Bernie! How dare he say something like this against Planned Parenthood, i always knew he was a crazy old guy i could dismiss cause he's so looney!"
My god.
It is annoying because in regards to actual advocacy, yes Bernie has been far more consistent on these issues than Hillary, while not perfect, but we still have folks saying everything is a zero sum game even now.
She is representative of powerful interests in this country from anti worker wallmart to anti consumer Wall Street.
And it basically says that the power you have really is the only thing that matters, not your ideas or your history with those ideas, which is primarily what this election is about more than anything else.
As far as i'm concerned , Trump is just background noise to the real battle between Hillary and Bernie Sanders
He didn't say anything that was untrue. They put their weight behind clinton before the race even officially started because of her connections and she was the presumptive nominee , he has to fight against them to win the Presidency.
There was no foot in mouth moment
Don't worry, because every now and again, they'll get rallied by somebody who will make them dream of that pie in the sky and believe they can be the difference. So they get out there, vote, and either a.) their candidate loses or b.) their candidate wins and the world doesn't change overnight. Cue "burn it all down" attitudes rather than taking the messages to heart and keeping at it.
neurosisxeno
Member
And HRC endorsed Hillary who had an 89% rating while Sanders had the highest on record of 100%. PP might have been a bad example but the HRC endorsement is a head scratcher. There are so far dozens of organizations who have endorsed Clinton for no reason other than the DNC favors her. Some of these organizations chose Clinton despite it being against their best interest--which is insanity.
excelsiorlef
Member
Btw if he wants PP to support him maybe he should show up to vote in their defense.
Ooops...
That was in December of 2015 btw.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rovisions-defund-planned-parenthood/76719174/
Ooops...
That was in December of 2015 btw.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...rovisions-defund-planned-parenthood/76719174/
Tesseract
Banned
that somebody is the only one keeping hillary honest
TyphoonStruggle
Member
This thread is pointless attack on Bernie.
Sanders said none of that. (in that Rachel Maddow interview) He was responding to a question asking why Hillary is receiving the endorsements of progressive organizations--e.g., Planned Parenthood--despite Sanders being the most progressive candidate.
What Sanders said is that he does have supporters in PP and these other progressive organizations. PP is a large and well-known organization that is composed of many parts; the majority at the top of the organization may just be more inclined to the establishment, which is what his campaign opposes. His campaign targets those individuals and smaller groups within larger institutions. It gives them the opportunity speak their voice and take part of the presidential election, despite what the people at the top decide.
Sanders said none of that. (in that Rachel Maddow interview) He was responding to a question asking why Hillary is receiving the endorsements of progressive organizations--e.g., Planned Parenthood--despite Sanders being the most progressive candidate.
What Sanders said is that he does have supporters in PP and these other progressive organizations. PP is a large and well-known organization that is composed of many parts; the majority at the top of the organization may just be more inclined to the establishment, which is what his campaign opposes. His campaign targets those individuals and smaller groups within larger institutions. It gives them the opportunity speak their voice and take part of the presidential election, despite what the people at the top decide.
There is the outside chance that orgs (and voters) take into account not only agreement on issues but also ability to win the general.
The safer chance to get 98% of what you want versus a riskier 100% of what you want might be enticing.
Just a bit. Perhaps.
excelsiorlef
Member
And if this was just about the HRC I wouldn't have posted it.
Though in Hillary's defense at least she knows who they are. Bernie called it the Human Rights Fund.... oooops
Whatever.
Between your lengthy explanation and "Bernie attacks PP" what message do you think is easier to disseminate and remember?
THAT is the problem with Sanders statement.
e:And wtf are people using 1rst names like they know the people since high school or something?
Really? He's running for President, he doesn't have to go back to the senate to cast a vote that wouldn't have mattered. There are reasons for PP to support Clinton over him, but this isn't one of them.
Only because they're not donating to him.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
Idunno, this seems like a pretty minor gaffe. People painting this like the end of his campaign or something are maybe speaking wishfully.
Pretty much.
It was a goof up. It shouldn't hurt him too much but it would make for good soundbites if Hillary decided to go after him on it. Frankly I know what he was trying to say and while I don't completely agree with it, I'm not too bothered. This rhetoric that he's going to tear the whole system down (perpetuated by some of his more fervent supporters) really isn't going to resonate much with the core democrats. Ready to move on though.
Prodigal Son
Member
SHOCKING STORY
But for real: a vote against pp isn't necessarily vote against all women's health services inherently. And this isn't even a vote against pp. Chill guys. Keep #berning or whatever.
But for real: a vote against pp isn't necessarily vote against all women's health services inherently. And this isn't even a vote against pp. Chill guys. Keep #berning or whatever.
Zoe
Member
This was their first endorsement...
brainchild
Banned
This thread is a complete embarrassment. The feigned outrage at Bernie's response is so overblown and disingenuous that I'm starting to wonder if people are really starting to fear that Bernie might actually have a chance at winning the nomination! I cannot fathom how anyone could get upset at what Bernie actually said when you consider the context at that point in the interview. It was absolutely relevant to the discussion.
When Hillary makes a bold or controversial statement, context is taken into account. When Bernie does the same thing, everyone brings out the pitchforks. The reactions here are hyperbolic to the point of absurdity.
When Hillary makes a bold or controversial statement, context is taken into account. When Bernie does the same thing, everyone brings out the pitchforks. The reactions here are hyperbolic to the point of absurdity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/41ubtw/hillary_clinton_endorsed_by_uss_largest_lgbt/
Human Rights Campaign had previously rated Sanders with a perfect score, and much higher than Clinton, for his stance and polices on human rights. But then endorsed Clinton anyway. The CEO of HRC is close to both the Clintons
Planned Parenthood endorsed Clinton without polling its members. The daughter of PP's CEO works on Clinton's campaign team.
I don't see any surprise or controversy why Sanders would call this out. That's what the 'establishment' is, and what Sanders is condemning. Helping people due to who they are. Nepotism and money.
Human Rights Campaign had previously rated Sanders with a perfect score, and much higher than Clinton, for his stance and polices on human rights. But then endorsed Clinton anyway. The CEO of HRC is close to both the Clintons
Planned Parenthood endorsed Clinton without polling its members. The daughter of PP's CEO works on Clinton's campaign team.
I don't see any surprise or controversy why Sanders would call this out. That's what the 'establishment' is, and what Sanders is condemning. Helping people due to who they are. Nepotism and money.
legacyzero
Banned
Best post of the thread.
If I gave you a 90% chance of getting $1000 or a 1 in 292 million chance of getting a billion dollars, which would you choose?
The numbers are a bit different, but it's not like it's hard to figure out why they'd endorse the most likely person to be the next President of the United States. Stop being a conspiracy theorist.
Mercury Fred
Banned
It seems like the majority of people think he fucked up and put his foot in his mouth. Which leads to worrying about what gaffes he might make in the general. I have to say this one did make me raise an eyebrow, though I don't believe for a second that Sanders is anti-PP or anti-women's health in general.
Do I think he's anti-PP? Of course not - he's got a pretty good track record there, though Hillary's is better (hence the PP endorsement).
Do I think that he spends far too much time blaming 'the establishment' for his problems rather than himself? Hell yes - and especially his supporters who see a conspiracy theory around every corner.
Bernie fails to understand one particular thing: the establishment might have bad parts, but it's how shit gets done. Upper-middle class white college men bitching on Twitter and posting on Reddit doesn't get things done. Nor does running a candidacy as an island where everybody else, no matter how progressive or beneficial to the country, is tossed under the bus at the slightest hint of not falling into line for Bernie. Pretending to be a Democrat when it's convenient in order to further a personal agenda that wouldn't even get 1% of the vote if he ran as a third party candidate doesn't get shit done either.
I'll vote for him if he wins (considering the absolutely horrible alternatives on the right), but he's a terrible candidate and lacks a fundamental understanding of everything necessary to run a country. Income inequality is not the root cause of all of our problems, and breaking up Goldman Sachs isn't going to magically cure all of our ills.
Do I think that he spends far too much time blaming 'the establishment' for his problems rather than himself? Hell yes - and especially his supporters who see a conspiracy theory around every corner.
Bernie fails to understand one particular thing: the establishment might have bad parts, but it's how shit gets done. Upper-middle class white college men bitching on Twitter and posting on Reddit doesn't get things done. Nor does running a candidacy as an island where everybody else, no matter how progressive or beneficial to the country, is tossed under the bus at the slightest hint of not falling into line for Bernie. Pretending to be a Democrat when it's convenient in order to further a personal agenda that wouldn't even get 1% of the vote if he ran as a third party candidate doesn't get shit done either.
I'll vote for him if he wins (considering the absolutely horrible alternatives on the right), but he's a terrible candidate and lacks a fundamental understanding of everything necessary to run a country. Income inequality is not the root cause of all of our problems, and breaking up Goldman Sachs isn't going to magically cure all of our ills.
GravityMan
Member
Sanders probably should have kept that thought in his back pocket. Or at least worded it more clearly so that folks wouldn't overreact and take things out of context.
His political acumen is a bit lacking.
His political acumen is a bit lacking.
Fair enough.
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