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[captainpat]

There aren't any scenes in GoT framed like what people are complaining about in this game. I have no idea how to even interpret your point here.

It means I don't think what you think is weird is actually a big deal to a mainstream audience.

 

[Li Kao]

Pretty much addressed most of this in my edit. I don't think "everyone's happy" either way to be honest. Also people are not playing the fan edit just to make some statement about censorship from a devil's advocate position here let's be real.

I would say it is indeed a form of censorship but the reasons why people are mad or happy about it aren't so black and white. Normally I'm completely against censorship but to me the face rubbing nonsense was basically a business decision to pander to people to begin with.

If I play the game it will be the fan edit, and totally to make some statement about censorship.
But please, keep putting words in everyones mouths. Classy.

 

[Stage On]

I'm pretty divided by this. I wasn't really planning to use the petting minigame myself but it never offended me either.

I went to great lenghts to secure my preorder for the special edition for this game and now I'm thinking about skipping it purely out of princaple of the matter. It was one thing to change Lin's outfits in Xenoblade slightly but cutting out an entire section of a game for no good reason is a bridge too far for my tastes.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Nope. Not a single one. I was also surprised. Unless we count

Spoiler

the main character, of course.

Ah, yes.

Spoiler

So it's up to the player to decide if magical dragon girl marriage is in the game.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Maybe I would've been miffed by this a few years ago, but I never wanted to give my units a rudbdown, and I'm done getting bothered over localization changes on principle alone.

Between regions, stuff gets changed a lot. This isn't new to Nintendo games, especially Fire Emblem, where entire characters have been rewritten to have completely different personalities. I don't care about it when games are altered for artistic reasons, so I can't make myself care just because a few people are throwing the word "censorship" around.

The only thing I care about is the end product, and I don't think that's going to suffer just because this one feature is missing.

WHAT?! This is an outrage! Face stroking has been part of Fire Emblem canon since Sacred Stones!

 

[Drop]

The most disappointing thing I see in this thread is people being ok with this just because they didn't like the stuff being removed.

 

[yami4ct]

If I was on the localization team for Awakenings, I would have edited (or "censored" if you prefer) the shit out of Nowi.

The manaketes are always an interesting class to play around with, but boy did the make everything worse by making 'everyone is romance-able' a thing in a game that includes them. I wouldn't have wanted to remove a whole class, but completely changing all the character art for two of the characters in that game seems like a task too much for localization.

I think 8-4 did the best they possibly could with the unsolvable problem of Nowi.

 

[Comfort Jones]

If I play the game it will be the fan edit, and totally to make some statement about censorship.
But please, keep putting words in everyones mouths. Classy.

And do you plan on ignoring all of that face rubbing while you do it and do you expect Nintendo to change any of its policies based off the statement of you still giving them money?

And for the record this stuff being in the game does affect my desire to buy or not buy it. To me it represents the series going in a direction I'd really rather it didn't go in, the fact that it was there to begin with kinda bugs me either way, but having to take the extra step of outright ignoring it does not help at all.

 

[Lindsay]

Cancelling my pre-order of the SE then an saving $85. I mean I sure as heck wouldn't want people petting in Shining Force or really any other game but to completely gut a mode without any attempt to salvage or replace it just isn't cool. NOA or maybe rather their NOJ overlords are cheaping out here big time.

 

[kewlmyc]

Probably been posted already, but here's all the dialogue that's probably getting cut if you care at all. One video per character.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP1GrSKB5lTUaQILsRGsf8Q/videos

 

[Neiteio]

If I was on the localization team for Awakenings, I would have edited (or "censored" if you prefer) the shit out of Nowi.

Yeah, I would've raised more red flags about that. She looks like a half-naked child.

What I've seen out of Fates' petting game is comparatively tame.

 

[Lumination]

Honestly, to say a little more on the matter, I was actually somewhat irritated by the increased focus on this kind of stuff when this game was revealed. I don't really like otaku pandering, not because I think the content itself is harmful or wrong, but rather because I feel like prioritizing that often comes with the effect of downgrading the quality of the writing or other things, and I kind of felt a bit bitter towards Atlus for going in that direction with Persona. I just don't really like pandering in general, but that's whatever.

However, I still don't like the removal of this. At worst, I would see the creation of the minigame as essentially squandering resources. A waste. But the thing is, the game has already been made. Those resources that were put into the petting minigame aren't going somewhere better. At this point, outright removing things from the game is only good to me if they were actually dragging the player experience down to the point where you need to remove them to make the game more fun .

Unless this was just some tedious shit the player had to do, they aren't fixing any kind of mistake, all they're doing is trying to just make it so that I can't use or enjoy whatever resulted from that. And yes, I understand why it's beneficial for Nintendo as a publisher to do this, but I don't really have any obligation to defend their interests that much.

Knowing that this stuff won't fly in the West may deter allocating resources to this in future installments.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

You don't have to take a principled stand to decide that something you liked in a game being removed is upsetting. There's very much a sense of paranoia that people are afraid to defend this as something they themselves want because of a really jarring impression (or flat out statement by many people) that if you like this kind of thing in a game you're some kind of pervy creepy weirdo. That's partly why it seems to me that so many people flock to the censorship defense. Maybe we should stop being jerks to other people and we could probably get more honest discourse.

I totally agree. Stuff like this never bother me based off "principle" but rather I just like the content that is cut.

 

[Yukinari]

Meanwhile Xenoblade X is filled with pure alien booty in multiple scenes and still has plenty of outfits that let your party be basically naked.

But we cant allow non sexual face rubbing in our fire emblem.

 

[Alucrid]

They should have created a cat or dog avatar for each character and when you go into the petting mode you just pet the cat or dog instead. Look at that valued added content. Hire me Nintendo.

 

[BGBW]

oh, so you chimed in to tell people to eat shit for a game you don't even have a remote stake in. seems reasonable. :^)

Some like to cheer simply because of how it affects others.

 

[L95]

Ah, yes.

Spoiler

So it's up to the player to decide if magical dragon girl marriage is in the game.

Mhm, I'm still surprised there wasn't

Spoiler

a solid character with said... traits,

though.

 

[Rin Tohsaka]

Have they mentioned what kind of discounted price the game will be now that they are removing content?

 

[SenorArdilla]

If I was on the localization team for Awakenings, I would have edited (or "censored" if you prefer) the shit out of Nowi.

A 1000-year-old manakete that looks like a little girl that was being guarded and transported by a Russian sellsword.

Her outfit and introduction is implied sex trafficking.

Have they mentioned what kind of discounted price the game will be now that they are removing content?

That's a good joke.

 

[YianGaruga]

Meanwhile Xenoblade X is filled with pure alien booty in multiple scenes and still has plenty of outfits that let your party be basically naked.

But we cant allow non sexual face rubbing in our fire emblem.

Does Fire Emblem have boob sliders? That stuff is the worst

 

[Fireblend]

Cancelling my pre-order of the SE then an saving $85. I mean I sure as heck wouldn't want people petting in Shining Force or really any other game but to completely gut a mode without any attempt to salvage or replace it just isn't cool. NOA or maybe rather their NOJ overlords are cheaping out here big time.

You should consider selling your preorder to a GAFfer who wants it. It's very difficult to find and there's a ton of people here who'd love to have a chance to buy it off you.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

You could always ask john tv about it, since 8-4 did the localisation

To be clear, I wasn't actually trying to call out 8-4 here. I just meant that if I was in a position to make those kinds of executive decisions, you better believe that I would have censored Nowi's art.

 

[wonzo]

If I was on the localization team for Awakenings, I would have edited (or "censored" if you prefer) the shit out of Nowi.

same

 

[Palculator]

Cancelling my pre-order of the SE then an saving $85. I mean I sure as heck wouldn't want people petting in Shining Force or really any other game but to completely gut a mode without any attempt to salvage or replace it just isn't cool. NOA or maybe rather their NOJ overlords are cheaping out here big time.

Don't see myself getting this anytime soon either, whenever they decide to release it in Europe. Fuck censorship on this level, christ.

 

[Alucrid]

To be clear, I wasn't actually trying to call out 8-4 here. I just meant that if I was in a position to make those kinds of executive decisions, you better believe that I would have censored Nowi's art.

I don't think we can draw that many curtains

 

[Bacon_Boss]

I'm sad, I thought it was a cute addition when it was announced. Knowing that something is missing from my game that isn't just blatantly inappropriate (like gay away magic) is unfortunate

 

[Draxal]

The manaketes are always an interesting class to play around with, but boy did the make everything by making 'everyone is romance-able' a thing in a game that includes them. I wouldn't have wanted to remove a whole class, but completely changing all the character art for two of the characters in that game seems like a task too much for localization.

I think 8-4 did the best they possibly could with the unsolvable problem of Nowi.

I've mentioned it in the past, but I always thought Nowi was a Tingle-esque shot at people who like fetishized Tiki. Making a marriagable version of that shot ... not what I've done.

 

[RM8]

Have they mentioned what kind of discounted price the game will be now that they are removing content?

Nah, localizing games is expensive

 

[Green Mamba]

Knowing that this stuff won't fly in the West may deter allocating resources to this in future installments.

Like the localization teams writing a note back to the Japanese studios to "Cut this shit out, seriously."

 

[YianGaruga]

To be clear, I wasn't actually trying to call out 8-4 here. I just meant that if I was in a position to make those kinds of executive decisions, you better believe that I would have censored Nowi's art.

Out of personal feelings or because you think the game would have made more money with your changes? Do you think Nowi was a major factor for people not buying the game?

 

[autoduelist]

This is Nintendo making a localisation decision for its own property. Its not an authority making arbitrary decisions on their product.

Censorship is a word that should have some real fucking weight to it. Instead, it's been rendered meaningless due to the gaming community's constant hissy fits over looks, volleyball and now a stupid mini game.

No. It's nice and all that you think you know what the word "should" mean, but that doesn't mean it actually means what you think it "should" mean. Censorship has long meant far more than simply the cut of content through an authoritative body (goverment, etc.).

You are the one being pedantic and insisting upon a very specific definition of the word. While the word does mean what you say in some usage, in general usage (and not just in gaming), the 'governing body' does not need to be a government/etc. In this case, the 'authority' would be Nintendo. If you were writing a book and decided you didn't feel okay including a scene because people might overreact/misunderstand, that's 'self-censorship'. If a big publisher will only publish your art book if you remove 2 specific photographs, that is corporate censorship.

Is it -your- definition of censorship? No. But that's because you're using an overly specific definition of the word and being pedantic about it.

There are a million sources for this, but I'll start with the wikipedia page:

"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions.[1]

Governments, private organizations and individuals may engage in censorship. When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of their own works or speech, it is called self-censorship. Censorship may be direct or it may be indirect, in which case it is called soft censorship. It occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel."

In this case, the private organization is Nintendo.

I bolded the sentence about soft censorship because that illustrates the word is very malleable. If you know Nintendo won't publish a game with, say, rape anywhere in its story, then it's soft censorship leading to self-censorship. You remove it before you even submit to them, due to indirect censorship.


--------------------

Merriam Webster defines:

censor:
simple definition:
"a person who examines books, movies, letters, etc., and removes things that are considered to be offensive, immoral, harmful to society, etc."

Notice: no mention of a specific authority the censor must hold:

Expanded definition

1
: a person who supervises conduct and morals: as a : an official who examines materials (as publications or films) for objectionable matter b : an official (as in time of war) who reads communications (as letters) and deletes material considered sensitive or harmful

2
: one of two magistrates of early Rome acting as census takers, assessors, and inspectors of morals and conduct

3
: a hypothetical psychic agency that represses unacceptable notions before they reach consciousness

At best you could be pedantic about the word 'official' in the sub-sub definition, but notice it first simply states 'person'. In this case Nintendo serves as the official. And that word is not in every definition of the word.

censorship: "the system or practice of censoring books, movies, letters, etc."
" 1
a : the institution, system, or practice of censoring b : the actions or practices of censors; especially : censorial control exercised repressively

2
: the office, power, or term of a Roman censor

3
: exclusion from consciousness by the psychic censor"

Again, no requirement mentioned.

---------------------------


Here's another page to consider:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_States

"The First Amendment protects against censorship imposed by laws, but does not give protection against corporate censorship, the sanctioning of speech by spokespersons, employees, and business associates by threat of monetary loss, loss of employment, or loss of access to the marketplace.[1][2] Legal expenses can sometimes be a significant unseen restraint where there may be fear of suit for libel. Many people in the United States are in favor of restrictions of corporate censorship, citing a slippery slope that if corporations do not follow the Bill of Rights the government will be influenced.[3]"

This clearly divides censorship into multiple categories -- and in this case, it clearly falls under "corporate censorship".

Likewise, if you published a raunchy game and Sony refused to carry it on PSN, it would also be "corporate censorship", specifically, " the sanctioning of speech by spokespersons, employees, and business associates by threat of monetary loss, loss of employment, or loss of access to the marketplace".

---------------------

So please get off your pedantic, holier-than-thou misuse of the word censorship. You are correct that one form of censorship would require some government or authoritative censorship agency, but that is only a small piece of the definition of censorship, and only used by people who want to shut down any talk of corporate [or other censorship].


-----

TLDR _- it is censorship. clearly, and definitively. you might be okay with it, but objecting to the use of the word is incorrect.

[note - i have no interest in the game, don't buy/not buy based on this issue, etc. i played MM on vita and found it incredibly annoying and bizarre, and would never have noticed if the mechanic was gone entirely. But censorship is censorship, and it's a word that exists outside your supremely limited definition.

 

[ffdgh]

The manaketes are always an interesting class to play around with, but boy did the make everything by making 'everyone is romance-able' a thing in a game that includes them. I wouldn't have wanted to remove a whole class, but completely changing all the character art for two of the characters in that game seems like a task too much for localization.

I think 8-4 did the best they possibly could with the unsolvable problem of Nowi.

This comic never gets old.

 

[Timmy00]

Seems really unnecessary. The reaction from most people here are also kinda weird.

 

[MillionStabs]

This is where I would cancel my preorder.

IF I HAD ONE

 

[Producer]

Yeesssssss.

Eat shit weeaboos.

I'm not going to play this game. :^)

really...lol

 

[poodaddy]

And nothing of value

Spoiler

to any sane individual

was lost.

 

[Ridley327]

I doubt 8-4 would have had final say on Nowi anyway. Treehouse was probably OK with her, so there was nothing that 8-4 had to do extra there, nor any work that IntSys would have to do for any potential adjustments.

 

[Li Kao]

And do you plan on ignoring all of that face rubbing while you do it and do you expect Nintendo to change any of its policies based off the statement of you still giving them money?

Well I think it's pretty safe to say that I will definitely use the feature until it bores me. So relatively shortly.
And I will clearly buy second hand or at discount. Why would I reward butchered localizations ?

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Have they mentioned what kind of discounted price the game will be now that they are removing content?

Actually , this is now a better product with that content removed, so if anything, they should raise the price right?

 

[DecoReturns]

It's funny. Nowi is actually a pretty good character and better then her Japanese version. If I recall she spoke like Gregor did.

The problem was they couldn't just remove her from the game. So they did the best they could. Which I felt was pretty good, but then I again I always kinda expect a dragon girl character on my Fire emblem handhelds. It's tradition in the west since sacred stones.

 

[hipsterpants]

The only reason removing stuff like this bothers me is because it's completely optional. It seems to me that a lot of the "objectionable" content is stuff that you have to purposefully seek out, like this or the costumes in XCX/FF.

Also I find it funny that if you don't purposefully marry the gay characters they're doomed to be forever alone.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Out of personal feelings or because you think the game would have made more money with your changes? Do you think Nowi was a major factor for people not buying the game?

I don't know if it was well-known enough to the mass public. But I think her design is more off-putting than not to the general consumer base, so I can only see it as a negative selling point if more people were aware of her design. But I don't like. Some of it is personal feelings. Frankly, I find her design to be disgusting.

 

[Lumination]

Like the localization teams writing a note back to the Japanese studios to "Cut this shit out, seriously."

Pretty much. Why spend money on content that only (going by rough Awakening numbers) only 25% of your playerbase will see?

 

[Taruranto]

I think the minigame is dumb all hell and I'm against the fanservice garbage that has started to pollute the series since Awakening, but I don't see how removing a game mode is a good thing ever.

 

[Mihos]

What a bunch of prudes.

Now we are looking to put scarlet letters on people based on what the accuser has determined to be 'creepy'.

The irony is thick.


The minigame itself was kind of dumb... remove it for that, not because some one in Colorado is offended

 

[L95]

It's funny. Nowi is actually a pretty good character and better then her Japanese version. If I recall she spoke like Gregor did.

The problem was they couldn't just remove her from the game. So they did the best they could. Which I felt was pretty good, but then I again I always kinda expect a dragon girl character on my Fire emblem handhelds. It's tradition in the west since sacred stones.

Yeah, Nowi spoke like... "Nowi wants to bla bla bla" I think the term is called "speaking third person" ?? But yeah, like Gregor

 

[entremet]

This thread is moving lightening fast. Crazy.

 

[stump sock]

What a bunch of prudes.

Now we are looking to put scarlet letters on people based on what the accuser has determined to be 'creepy'.

The irony is thick.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make here.

 

[Ekai]

It's not like the gay conversion was a 'feature' of Fates; just a bizarre and largely pointless conversation that obviously would've caused some drama if it'd stayed exactly the same in the Western release.

By comparison I think this petting thing would've been fine if it stayed in. It's weird and stupid and probably indicative of the new 'waifu'/'husbando' direction the series is going in, but there's nothing inherently drama-causing about it like there was with the former sour point.

I sort of have to find myself agreeing with people where if this was something like the gay characters/relationships being scrubbed out for the western release you wouldn't have as many people here playing dictionary with whether this classifies as 'censorship' or not.

It's localization no matter how you want to slice it. Would it be stupid if that were gone? Yes. Because those are aspects that are far more intrinsic to story and character. (That said I have no clue how Soleli is going to be localized. Her whole character is simply a mess the way she's handled.) You people are stretching extremely here. And I already expressed my view on the matter. I mostly see this feature as harmless and stupid, albeit creepy. I am glad it wasn't forced on the player. That also said I don't much mind it being gone either. The less creepy pandering the better. Tired of that stuff appearing in game series where it previously wasn't.

Conversely, the gay conversion scene got an uproar (Japan petitioned it even) precisely because gay conversion is messed up. The fact there were people here defending that for the sake of "anti-censorship" sickens me, frankly.

 

[TR_]

Nah, localizing games is expensive

It'll be cheaper now that they don't have to translate those.